Forums > Social Discussion > Your diet and your relationship... a potential conflict?

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Is your dietary choice inflicting on your relationships?

Would you (for example as a vegan) have trouble with your carnivore partner? Or would you as a omnivore have trouble with your vegan partner?

Did you ever end a relationship due to differences in diet?
Did you ever avoid a relationship due to a different dietary choice?

I love you, but you love meat - article in the NYT

 Written by: Kate Murphy

No-holds-barred carnivores, for example, may share the view of Anthony Bourdain, who wrote in his book Kitchen Confidential that vegetarians, and their Hezbollah-like splinter faction, the vegans ... are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit.

Returning the compliment, many vegetarians say they cannot date anyone who eats meat. Vegans, who avoid eating not just animals but animal-derived products, take it further, shivering at the thought of kissing someone who has even sipped honey-sweetened tea.

(...)

Ben Abdalla, 42, a real estate agent in Boca Raton, Fla., said he preferred to date fellow vegetarians because meat eaters smell bad and have low energy.

Lisa Romano, 31, a vegan and school psychologist in Belleville, N.Y., said she recently ended a relationship with a man who enjoyed backyard grilling. He had no problem searing her vegan burgers alongside his beef patties, but she found the practice unenlightened and disturbing.

While some eaters may elevate morality above hedonism, others are suspicious of anyone who does not give in to the pleasure principle.

June Deadrick, 40, a lobbyist in Houston, said she would have a hard time loving a man who did not share her fondness for multicourse meals including wild game and artisanal cheeses. And Im talking cheese from a cow, not that awful soy stuff, she said.




*Humms that tune: "What's LOVE got to do with it"?*

umm wink

Enjoy


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Mojojo
Mojojo

wandering dingo
Location: Aussie in London
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 167
Posted:It can be really tricky when you have eating habits that are poles apart.
I was vege for only three years, witha vegan phase in the middle.
Made really easy by the bf at the time being vege as well.
Only went back to meat-eating because I was living with a family in Thailand when I was volunteering for a few months, and it was a bit uncomfortable to be not eating meat - as so much of their culture is centred around food, they were borderline on being insulted that I wouldn't eat it, and instead bought me loads of seafood (which I don't eat cos I really don't like it) so it was just easier to eat a little bit of chicken than be faced with a whole fish bought specially for me!

Now, the other half is one of those meat eater that has to have meat with almost every meal - even if it is only half a rasher of bacon in a pasta sauce he is happy, so thats not too bad. Out of effort factor of cooking things differently after long hours, I am not vege anymore - I just hardly eat any meat, but am happy to cook the whole stirfry together, and then I just don't eat the meaty bits! As a foodie, though, I love cooking everything, including meat, and it really doesn't bother me to carve up a side of lamb, never did, even when I was vegan.

But, although I agree quite strongly with the environmental impact reasons for not eating meat, along with health reasons (I never felt better than when I was vegan) what people choose to eat is their own business, and even when I was vegan, I find there is nothing more annoying than an animal-rights-preaching-vegan - except....

The other thing that I notice, is when I was vege, people would query me about it, I would happily answer their questions, and then they would fire up and try to bait me into an argument (usually along the lines of, but what about the PLANTS that had to die for you to eat them, etc etc, don't they have rights too) which I wouldn't bite on, and then moan on and on and on for HOURS about the whinging vegetarians... when they were the ones moaning like there was no tomorrow!! Grrr.


Only three things are certain: Death, Taxes, and that England will not win back the Ashes in this lifetime.

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Kitsune34
Kitsune34

newbie
Location: Orlando, FL, USA
Member Since: 2nd Nov 2007
Total posts: 48
Posted:Love has everything to do with it, I think. And with love comes R-E-S-P-E-C-T!

I think when you love someone you can respect their eating habits, pet peeves, etc because you want to stay together. Because you want to be with that person.

I also think that people have to be mutually respective and be willing to compromise to make a relationship work. I think that you have to be willing to make sacrifices to be together because a relationship isn't butter on toast. You'll have arguments and whatever, but you have to be willing to compromise so you can avoid those arguments again. Ya know?

I just, to sum up, I view eating habits like painting a room for a house that two people are living in. You may have to argue a little bit to get a color you want, but you eventually come to a compromise to make it work.

*shrugs* That's what I think.


"Always forgive your enemies, for nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Thank you Ginger. That was the point I tried to make as well but I think you said it better.

I think it is very interesting what is going on here. I see a vege calling meat "crap" and not really seeing how this could be offensive (which it can be taken as).
I see vegies discounting a *very* well thought out spiritual points by saying that cutting out a middle man is less damaging. Grazing is less damaging, field cropping (which is how we get out veggies) is not. I did internships for the Soil and Water Conservation District, working with farmers to set up their fields every spring according to state guidelines for environment strip cropping and field crop rotations. Additionally I worked with cattle (dairy and steer) farmers on their manure pits and property management.
Did you know that a cattle farm does *less* environmental damage to the area surrounding it than a field of wheat?
Veggie/Grain crop planting has huge effects on our environment, and susequently on the living organisms there, even the large "organic" farms. This is not including processing byproducts, especially involved in the grain industry (even for those things labelled as "whole grain").

Thus, for me, the only time I could fully support your statement OWD is if you were to grow it all yourself and only eat what you grow. If you do, then I absolutely applaude you.

There isn't so much as a minimizing of effects as much as there is a displacement of them.

Honestly, I grow weary of hearing how horrible that meat is for a body. Studies support it, sure. There are also respected institutions with studies about how a vegan or vege lifestyle is also bad for a body.

It comes down to individual choice and how we *feel* when we eat what we choose to. Some people feel healthier and better one way, some do the other...and I think until a person tries both, then they have no right to judge. It is highly personal for so many, many reasons and it all comes back to respecting the people we choose to share our lives with for who they are overall, not for the bits and pieces that we deem worthy.


BTW, the whole "eating crap" thing as it applies to meat (using meat as a generic label including healthy meat choices) is bogus. There are plenty of veggies and vegans who eat far more unhealthy diets than some meat eaters by choosing processed grains and chips and soda, etc. There is a very distinct difference in what is not your choice and what is, in all honesty, dietary "crap" and void of nutritional value.

So I walked away and thought about this, and a friend of mine at work helped me come to this conclusion, that the diet-relationship thing can be applied but in a different manner for me. There is a level of self-respect, and in love, a respecting of how someone else feels about you as well. I would have a very hard time spending my life with someone who eats copious amounts of fast food, junk food and convenience foods void of nutritional value. Not necessarily because I have an agenda against their eating habits but because if there is *nothing* redeeming about the diet, then I view that as a lack of self-respect, as well as a lack of respecting my wanting that person to be healthy and be with me. Perhaps that is selfish, so be it. If I am going to commit my life to someone, and potentially have children with someone, I would hope they would take care of themselves in a manner that won't kill them in a few years.
But for the same reasons, I also find it hard to be with chain smokers and with excessive drinkers.

So for me it's not only about respect but also vice moderation I suppose.

I don't think there is a wrong or right here, just individual choice.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by: Mojojo




The other thing that I notice, is when I was vege, people would query me about it, I would happily answer their questions, and then they would fire up and try to bait me into an argument (usually along the lines of, but what about the PLANTS that had to die for you to eat them, etc etc, don't they have rights too) which I wouldn't bite on, and then moan on and on and on for HOURS about the whinging vegetarians... when they were the ones moaning like there was no tomorrow!! Grrr.



Excellent point.

When I was vegetarian I noticed that a lot, I think most vegetarians experience it.

An argument takes two people- it seems a very common complaint amongst meat-eaters, that they feel harassed by veggie/vegans who try to preach their way of life- it's worth realising that, 99% of the time, if you're in an argument, it's cos you want to be in an argument.

In a veggie vs.meat argument, both parties are choosing to sustain that argument.

To any meat eaters, if you're sick of veggies arguing with you, then don't get into/sustain the arguement (and,of course, vice-versa for veggies who feel harrassed by meat-eates).


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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la_genie
la_genie

member

Member Since: 17th Jan 2008
Total posts: 73
Posted: Written by: Pele


However if you get a PETA preacher with a carn, it won't work.



Totally off topic, but you reminded me of this;
http://www.courttv.com/news/2007/0118/PETA_ctv.html
I was shocked to read this.... and it is totally true... A friend lives near there and it was on the local news and he let me know about it.


Be aware, the evil flowers may eat your toes....
Have no friends not equal to yourself...
Feed your mind, read a book

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by: Pele





Did you know that a cattle farm does *less* environmental damage to the area surrounding it than a field of wheat?

Veggie/Grain crop planting has huge effects on our environment, and susequently on the living organisms there, even the large "organic" farms. This is not including processing byproducts, especially involved in the grain industry (even for those things labelled as "whole grain").









What about when you factor in the cattle-feed grain that has to be brought in to feed the cattle?



Of course you're right that veggie/grain planting has huge effects on the environment.



The point is though and, it's a very simple point, is that if growing plants to eat directly, causes 'x' amount of damage- then obviously if, as with meat, there's an animal in the middle of the chain, then considerably more than 'x' amount of damage is done.



(Usually roughly estimated to be 10x)



Common sense alone indicates that there's going to be a greater effect if the chain includes an animal in the middle- that animal lives a given number of months or years, during which it walks, runs, copulates etc- using a large amount of energy which has to come from grains/vegetation grown specifically to sustain that animal.



That energy is lost and, the food value available to the eater of the animal, is far less than if they'd simply eaten the vegetation in the first place.



(I know there are other factors, such as the fact that animals can be sustained on crops/land that are not suitable for human crop growing- but, most meat production is not that organic ideal- it's fed on crops commercially grown soley for animal feed.



To the extent that some of these factors are valid- they don't diminish that 10x loss that much).



None of this means that I'm saying meat-eating is wrong (please, no-one try to paint me as a 'converter')- but, if you want to eat meat, then why not just face up to it, acknowledge the indisputable fact that meat production is, overall, more damaging to the environment than vegetarianism/veganism but say, 'regardless of that, I choose to eat meat.'


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Spanner
Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...
Member Since: 27th Feb 2003
Total posts: 2790
Posted: Written by: Mr_Chutney


I fear this is wondring off topic somewhat, onto what views people hold, as opposed to whether those views, held for whatever reasons, could or have affect ones choice of partner.



 Written by: Pele


Did you know that a cattle farm does *less* environmental damage to the area surrounding it than a field of wheat?
...




 Written by: onewheeldave


What about when you factor in the cattle-feed grain that has to be brought in to feed the cattle?
...




21 page vegetarianism thread

</hint>

wink


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:whats love got to do with it? I think Love is a really wierd thing if it puts you into close and *sustained* contact with someone who you completely dissagree with on fundamental beliefs... How about reversing the question - how could you love someone who didnt share at least *some* of your fundamental beliefs?



its like saying that atheists and fundamental christians shouldnt let their religious beliefs stop them from getting in a relationship...I mean come on?? whats the basis of the relationship if its not respect, understanding, and a deeply held shared set of beliefs?



Eg I dont think I could fall in long lasting love with someone who was a facist tax-evading amoral lawyer, meat guzzling, materialist, person who enjoys fox hunting. Could you guys? how much stuff will you let pass before a rift in belief systems would start to have an impact on 'Love'?



hyperbole are great are they? ubbrollsmile



<tangent>



I think a lot of people these days don't actually have a conviction to their systems of belief because our education system is woeful at teaching values education (rather than values indoctrination - which is common).


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:*ponders about his own tax-evasion, occasional steak and intake of substances, sighs...*

shrug well, 'guess you have a point, Josh...

*looks for rope and tree*


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Looper
Looper

grasshopper in training

Member Since: 4th Feb 2004
Total posts: 124
Posted:Well said Pyrolific smile
Tom... its an individual thing.... and depends on how strongly you both feel about your choices when it comes to diet.
hug


There is a world made of air, one of earth and one of water.
And there is one made of fire, and all of them fight for supremacy. They are fighting now, in my head.

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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:Tom - I was illustrating a point; for *me* the closer I am to someone the less I can tolerate things that I believe are wrong or misguided - especially if the person knows better. if its personal preference then fine you like apples I like oranges...but when its things like lets go rip off the poor people - well then I get a stronger negative reaction...

There's no need for the rope and tree - everyone is human and full of inconsistency - even me wink


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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Eera
old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay
Member Since: 29th May 2003
Total posts: 1107
Posted:We have diet related issues at home; I will eat anything, he's as fussy as a 7 year old and it's an uphill battle to get him to eat anything new. So, when it's my nights to cook I make a neutral food and cook myself some extras, when it's his cook night, he makes something he likes and I throw some different vegies in the saucepan for myself. I'm finding gradually altering recognisable food with other ingredients gets a wider variety on his plate than insisting he eats something strnage outright. It is like taming a toddler.

I used to get very upset about the lack of variety being served up, but frankly you need to choose your battles in a relationship and there are far more worthy things to lock horns about.


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

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Kitsune34
Kitsune34

newbie
Location: Orlando, FL, USA
Member Since: 2nd Nov 2007
Total posts: 48
Posted: Written by: Eera


I used to get very upset about the lack of variety being served up, but frankly you need to choose your battles in a relationship and there are far more worthy things to lock horns about.



I agree completely! I was actually just talking about that with my bf. He believes also that it is a compromise with the eating habits.

 Written by: Prolific


its like saying that atheists and fundamental christians shouldnt let their religious beliefs stop them from getting in a relationship...I mean come on?? whats the basis of the relationship if its not respect, understanding, and a deeply held shared set of beliefs?



And I also agree with that, but the beliefs may not have to be religious for two people to work together. There are some things that inherently matter in a relationship (Do you actually have feelings for this person? Do they have feelings for you? Can you talk openly?... etc), but there are also things that if you make them matter, yes they will, but if you don't make them a big deal, they won't be. So, to modify yours Prolific, I think a relationship is based on respect, communication, understanding and what matters to the individual people.

ubblove (I'm suprised this smiley hasn't been used yet in this thread)


"Always forgive your enemies, for nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:"I love you, but you love meat"... hmm, means "you love meat more than me"? "If you would love me more than meat, you would abstain from it"? umm

If my partner would heavily criticise me for my diet, I would stop, sit down, think and talk if that is really the main issue or where the real problem is. Someone looking for a fight will always find something to fight about.

Tolerance and respect - to me - are the key issues in a relationship. My ex-gf was veggie and after a few months I changed to a pure veg diet, stayed on it for a long period and simply noticed that it didn't work for me. The veg-times though helped me a lot to find a very moderate approach to meat. She never had issues with my diet, even after I changed back to omnivore.

Josh, you just hit the nail, that's all wink You know that there are (supernatural) humans who are so filled up with consistency (or at least enjoy regarding themselves as such) that it becomes unnerving. This may apply to a banker as much as to an enlightenment-junkie.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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