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Forums > Social Discussion > HoP Pop ups???
Login/Join to ParticipateMedusa
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003
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Posted:Just today as I have been surfing around the HoP boards I have been getting pop ups appearing all over my screen. (some for online gambling sites and things like that)
Now this has never happened for me before with HoP.
Is this something that has had to be done? Or am I getting random pop ups for no reason?
Now this has never happened for me before with HoP.
Is this something that has had to be done? Or am I getting random pop ups for no reason?
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JauntyJames
SILVER Member since Dec 2004
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Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA
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SILVER Member since Dec 2004
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA
Total posts: 3533
Posted:You're getting pop ups for no reason. I used to get them all the time on just one computer, until I DL'd Firefox, but I didn't get them on any other.
-James
"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"
Posted:IE has built in popups when you install it. no one believes me when i say it, but when you've got a clean install and get popups, there is no other way.
thats why i use firefox. safer, easier and automatically stops pop ups. get it here
you should probably also get something like ad-aware to scan your computer.
thats why i use firefox. safer, easier and automatically stops pop ups. get it here
you should probably also get something like ad-aware to scan your computer.
Do we sleep when we die?
DeleteMedusa
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003
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Posted:It's a work computer so firefox is not allowed to be installed...I prefer firefox when I am using the home internet.
I've never had the pop ups before so it seemed a bit weird that it has started now and only on HoP
I've never had the pop ups before so it seemed a bit weird that it has started now and only on HoP
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polarity
SILVER Member since May 2005
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Posted:I think you can run firefox from a CD, although you can't save history and bookmarks. You can if you use a USB key drive though, then you can have your own personalised portable version.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.
Posted:
Pop ups are an intergral feature of IE, well the option to launch additional browsers, generally this is called from web pages that you visit, usually for promotion of certain merchandising, and targeted adverts etc, yada yada yada, and very occaisionally for launching pages etc internally from a site.
The other source of this rather anoying feature is the vast amount of spyware and 'malware' that arnt really viruses but fulfill similar functions, bottom line is that if your getting popups from this site, then you've accidentally downloaded one of the vast proliferation of malware thats in current circulation, get yourself a decent malware (adware / spyware) scanner.
If your running Windows Xp or 2000 then you might want to look out for a particularly difficult to remove parasite thats in current circulation Adware.Istbar.B this downloads files detected as Adware.Istbar. It can also display advertisements on compromised machines. SYMPTOMS tend to match those your've described, look for it on task monitor, anyay from exp with this one, if you've been affected then your going to have serious difficulties removing it.
Hope some of this helps
and yeah dump IE if possible, opera or firefox as previously mentioned are competent replacements,
mark
somthing
Pop ups are an intergral feature of IE, well the option to launch additional browsers, generally this is called from web pages that you visit, usually for promotion of certain merchandising, and targeted adverts etc, yada yada yada, and very occaisionally for launching pages etc internally from a site.
The other source of this rather anoying feature is the vast amount of spyware and 'malware' that arnt really viruses but fulfill similar functions, bottom line is that if your getting popups from this site, then you've accidentally downloaded one of the vast proliferation of malware thats in current circulation, get yourself a decent malware (adware / spyware) scanner.
If your running Windows Xp or 2000 then you might want to look out for a particularly difficult to remove parasite thats in current circulation Adware.Istbar.B this downloads files detected as Adware.Istbar. It can also display advertisements on compromised machines. SYMPTOMS tend to match those your've described, look for it on task monitor, anyay from exp with this one, if you've been affected then your going to have serious difficulties removing it.
Hope some of this helps
and yeah dump IE if possible, opera or firefox as previously mentioned are competent replacements,
mark
somthing
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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002
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Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...
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SILVER Member since Aug 2002
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Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...
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Posted:Written by: polarity
if you use a USB key drive though, then you can have your own personalised portable version.
wicked tip!
cheers polarity
cole. x
if you use a USB key drive though, then you can have your own personalised portable version.
wicked tip!
cheers polarity
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005
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Location: Bali, Australia
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Posted:I have been trying to load Firefox for a while now. I go to the official site, but the download either comes as gobbledegook in an Excell(!!!!) file or else my IE tells me it 'doesn't know how to download this type of application" Seems like IE is fighting for its life!
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
Deletepolarity
SILVER Member since May 2005
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Posted:Could be that some spyware has screwed your comp so you can't download anything to get rid of it. You might be able to rename the .xls file to an .exe one and see if that helps, or you could try the copy on the ftp site.
Open up a windows explorer window (click my computer) and put this into the address box:
ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/1.0.4/win32/en-US/
That should take you to the folder on the Mozilla FTP server where the file is, and bypass IE completely. Just drag and drop the .exe file somewhere, then when it's downloaded, run it.
Open up a windows explorer window (click my computer) and put this into the address box:
ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/1.0.4/win32/en-US/
That should take you to the folder on the Mozilla FTP server where the file is, and bypass IE completely. Just drag and drop the .exe file somewhere, then when it's downloaded, run it.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.
flid
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002
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BRONZE Member since Aug 2002
Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posted:Written by: DragonFury
IE has built in popups when you install it. no one believes me when i say it, but when you've got a clean install and get popups, there is no other way.
are you sure it isn't just cause you didn't install all the upgrades when you installed IE? There's plenty of adware companies scanning subnets for machines with outdated exploitable software running
IE has built in popups when you install it. no one believes me when i say it, but when you've got a clean install and get popups, there is no other way.
are you sure it isn't just cause you didn't install all the upgrades when you installed IE? There's plenty of adware companies scanning subnets for machines with outdated exploitable software running
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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia
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what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia
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Posted:Hi Polarity,
the .exe and so on won't work for me cos I use System X and therefore Usually dont get bothered with spyware and nasties... but I will try dowloading Mozilla again tomorrow! Thanks for your attention!
the .exe and so on won't work for me cos I use System X and therefore Usually dont get bothered with spyware and nasties... but I will try dowloading Mozilla again tomorrow! Thanks for your attention!
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
DeletePosted:Written by: flid
Written by: DragonFury
IE has built in popups when you install it. no one believes me when i say it, but when you've got a clean install and get popups, there is no other way.
are you sure it isn't just cause you didn't install all the upgrades when you installed IE? There's plenty of adware companies scanning subnets for machines with outdated exploitable software running
i have SP2 on cd, and install that and nortons before getting on the net.
talking about that, i need to redo my system...
Written by: DragonFury
IE has built in popups when you install it. no one believes me when i say it, but when you've got a clean install and get popups, there is no other way.
are you sure it isn't just cause you didn't install all the upgrades when you installed IE? There's plenty of adware companies scanning subnets for machines with outdated exploitable software running
i have SP2 on cd, and install that and nortons before getting on the net.
talking about that, i need to redo my system...
Do we sleep when we die?
Deletepolarity
SILVER Member since May 2005
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Posted:newgabe: System X? Macs rename PC .exe files to .xls, so it could be the wrong version is being sent.
You can still get to ftp sites using the terminal, but it's not something the average mac user likes, as it requires letting go of the mouse and typing obscure commands
DragonFury: Norton just doesn't cut the mustard. They don't update their database often enough, so loads of spyware can sneak through as it's always being modified to beat commercial A.V.
AVG or Avast are known to be the best two, as they find more viruses than the non-free software, and have updates almost daily.
Throw in Spybot S&D, Ad-Aware and either Kerio or Zone Alarm personal firewalls, and you'll have the best software and at zero cost.
----
If you've changed to FireFox it's a good idea to disable access to IE under 'Set program access and defaults' on the start menu, so other people don't go using it and messing things up. I've found it's the easiest way to keep the icon off the desktop.
I can't stand Microsoft software, so I've replaced IE, Outlook, Media Player and MSN Messenger with Firefox, Thunderbird, Winamp and Miranda. Gradually trying to move to Gnome on BSD.
You can still get to ftp sites using the terminal, but it's not something the average mac user likes, as it requires letting go of the mouse and typing obscure commands
DragonFury: Norton just doesn't cut the mustard. They don't update their database often enough, so loads of spyware can sneak through as it's always being modified to beat commercial A.V.
AVG or Avast are known to be the best two, as they find more viruses than the non-free software, and have updates almost daily.
Throw in Spybot S&D, Ad-Aware and either Kerio or Zone Alarm personal firewalls, and you'll have the best software and at zero cost.
----
If you've changed to FireFox it's a good idea to disable access to IE under 'Set program access and defaults' on the start menu, so other people don't go using it and messing things up. I've found it's the easiest way to keep the icon off the desktop.
I can't stand Microsoft software, so I've replaced IE, Outlook, Media Player and MSN Messenger with Firefox, Thunderbird, Winamp and Miranda. Gradually trying to move to Gnome on BSD.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.
Posted:whoa polarity you know your 'sheet' man!
we use firefox and also agv and spybot search and destroy on our pootah and bless the lil thing she loves it!!
*wishes someone would make a bum wiggle emoticon*
we use firefox and also agv and spybot search and destroy on our pootah and bless the lil thing she loves it!!
*wishes someone would make a bum wiggle emoticon*
TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"
DeletePosted:Yeah, i run S&D and ad-aware, but i was saying IE has pop ups straight on the install.doesn't matter, i use firefox, so much nicer.
Polarity, you know much about OS2 (IBM unix/linux)? was thinking of setting a box up with it.
Polarity, you know much about OS2 (IBM unix/linux)? was thinking of setting a box up with it.
Do we sleep when we die?
Deletepolarity
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Posted:Only that it's no longer owned by IBM, isn't free, isn't open source, and has less support and prospect of success than BeOS, judging by google search results. I'm going to try BeOS instead.
You want to try Kerio, it can set what programs can get network access, or start other programs. When I saw how often windows tries to phone home, I fixed it so the only programs that can access microsoft are firefox and miranda.
These days, if it isn't open source there's a very good chance it's spyware of some form.
You want to try Kerio, it can set what programs can get network access, or start other programs. When I saw how often windows tries to phone home, I fixed it so the only programs that can access microsoft are firefox and miranda.
These days, if it isn't open source there's a very good chance it's spyware of some form.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.
flid
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002
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BRONZE Member since Aug 2002
Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posted:Written by: Polarity
Only that it's no longer owned by IBM
Since when? I ran os/2 warp in 94-96
Written by: Polarity
These days, if it isn't open source there's a very good chance it's spyware of some form.
that's a bit harsh isn't it? There's lots of crap open source code out there.
The questions you need to ask yourself when getting stuff for free is why is it free, and how do the people producing it earn a living.
If it's a huge company like Microsoft or Sun with lots of money to burn and can afford to fund free stuff then they do so as it's good advertising for them. MS arn't stupid enough to use spyware. Don't be silly. Substantiate any accusations you have with fact. To say that IE contains advertising is misguided. To say it has popups enabled as default is correct, it's a feature! Popups arn't evil, cookies arn't evil. Some people try doing evil things with them, but they arn't a problem in themselves. If you visit the sort of sites on a regular basis (*ahem*porn*warez*cracking*ahem*) that have dodgy popups on then you should perhaps change your browsing habits.
There's a reason serious computer users (ie big business) use operating systems from large companies, it's stable and has support. Sure the linux kernel is free, but it doesn't come with support and if a bug is found then there arn't a large team of developers to fix the problem asap. Of course it's cheaper to use linux on x86 hardware than to develop your own OS on propietry hardware, hence the reason why software giants like Apple, Sun, HP/Compaq who all used to have their own OSs on their own hardware are moving towards linux on off shelf chips. There's a big market at the moment for as cheap as possible linux based servers, by companies who can offer support and a proper custom distribution. This is what the company I work for does. It's not just redhat slapped on a PC, it's a proper linux from scratch distro (probably with a custom kernel) on server grade intel hardware, with lots of propiatry software running alongside open source, but at a fraction of the price as reinventing the wheel.
I'd never in a million years recomend people use microsoft windows as a server, but i'd also not recomend using completely open source software unless they really know what they are doing.
It's small companies distributing software for free that you have to be careful of. After all how do small companies survive if they give their stuff away free?
Small programs don't nessecarily have to have spyware if they arn't open source, there's a good reason not everyone who releases freeware does as open source: many people (including commercial) take no notice of open source licenses. Open source software released under GNU GPL (as opposed to something like MIT) is not free. A lot of people who use it never actually read the license, which is fine, but when people who redistribute it or use it commercially and don't read the license, then there's a problem. The GPL is designed to protect intellectual property rights, but it's hard to prosecute people who break the terms of it, and most people who release under it don't have the funds to take companies to court.
A lot of people who create free programs in their spare time do it as a career move, for portfolio and exposure, the same goes for people who study code to find exploits. In these cases they're happy for people to use them, but not to nick their ideas, which they could use commercially in the future. I've released software under GPL before that's been ripped off, I've also designed several algoritms and concepts that I'm not releasing as I could make money from them at a later date.
Only that it's no longer owned by IBM
Since when? I ran os/2 warp in 94-96
Written by: Polarity
These days, if it isn't open source there's a very good chance it's spyware of some form.
that's a bit harsh isn't it? There's lots of crap open source code out there.
The questions you need to ask yourself when getting stuff for free is why is it free, and how do the people producing it earn a living.
If it's a huge company like Microsoft or Sun with lots of money to burn and can afford to fund free stuff then they do so as it's good advertising for them. MS arn't stupid enough to use spyware. Don't be silly. Substantiate any accusations you have with fact. To say that IE contains advertising is misguided. To say it has popups enabled as default is correct, it's a feature! Popups arn't evil, cookies arn't evil. Some people try doing evil things with them, but they arn't a problem in themselves. If you visit the sort of sites on a regular basis (*ahem*porn*warez*cracking*ahem*) that have dodgy popups on then you should perhaps change your browsing habits.
There's a reason serious computer users (ie big business) use operating systems from large companies, it's stable and has support. Sure the linux kernel is free, but it doesn't come with support and if a bug is found then there arn't a large team of developers to fix the problem asap. Of course it's cheaper to use linux on x86 hardware than to develop your own OS on propietry hardware, hence the reason why software giants like Apple, Sun, HP/Compaq who all used to have their own OSs on their own hardware are moving towards linux on off shelf chips. There's a big market at the moment for as cheap as possible linux based servers, by companies who can offer support and a proper custom distribution. This is what the company I work for does. It's not just redhat slapped on a PC, it's a proper linux from scratch distro (probably with a custom kernel) on server grade intel hardware, with lots of propiatry software running alongside open source, but at a fraction of the price as reinventing the wheel.
I'd never in a million years recomend people use microsoft windows as a server, but i'd also not recomend using completely open source software unless they really know what they are doing.
It's small companies distributing software for free that you have to be careful of. After all how do small companies survive if they give their stuff away free?
Small programs don't nessecarily have to have spyware if they arn't open source, there's a good reason not everyone who releases freeware does as open source: many people (including commercial) take no notice of open source licenses. Open source software released under GNU GPL (as opposed to something like MIT) is not free. A lot of people who use it never actually read the license, which is fine, but when people who redistribute it or use it commercially and don't read the license, then there's a problem. The GPL is designed to protect intellectual property rights, but it's hard to prosecute people who break the terms of it, and most people who release under it don't have the funds to take companies to court.
A lot of people who create free programs in their spare time do it as a career move, for portfolio and exposure, the same goes for people who study code to find exploits. In these cases they're happy for people to use them, but not to nick their ideas, which they could use commercially in the future. I've released software under GPL before that's been ripped off, I've also designed several algoritms and concepts that I'm not releasing as I could make money from them at a later date.
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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005
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Posted:Well, Flid and Polarity, you're way off in computer land now!!! Linux kernels... oh dear , next you'll be talking about antispin hyperflowers 
Just wanting to report that I could not get Firefox to download when I tried through IE...just gobbledook. So I opened Safari, the browser that comes with System X. And was able to. May as well just use Safari! Though I would like to give Firefox a try as so many people say it's nice. So this is my first HoP adventure with Firefox... and of course my first bookmark!
Just wanting to report that I could not get Firefox to download when I tried through IE...just gobbledook. So I opened Safari, the browser that comes with System X. And was able to. May as well just use Safari! Though I would like to give Firefox a try as so many people say it's nice. So this is my first HoP adventure with Firefox... and of course my first bookmark!
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
Deletepolarity
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Posted:Written by: Polarity
Only that it's no longer owned by IBM
Written by: flid
Since when? I ran os/2 warp in 94-96
IBM may still be supporting old versions in a minimal way, but all rights have been sold to Serenity Systems, and it's now being developed under the name eComStation.
Written by: flid
The questions you need to ask yourself when getting stuff for free is why is it free, and how do the people producing it earn a living.
In the case of a lot of free 'anti spyware' software the product is actually made by the same companies as spyware, and is a way for them to harvest more information.
Written by: flid
If it's a huge company like Microsoft or Sun with lots of money to burn and can afford to fund free stuff then they do so as it's good advertising for them. MS arn't stupid enough to use spyware. Don't be silly.
That depends on the definition of spyware. Malware is a more correct term for programs that subvert security or do annoying things, while spyware's definition is 'software that subverts the computer's operation for the benefit of a third party.' (according to wikipedia). Even windows itself falls into this category, as it sends a lot of data back to microsoft. This may not be surreptitious, but it is of benefit to a third party (microsoft may sell statistics , or otherwise benefit from havin access to that information). It counts as subverting the computers operation, because I consider the computers purpose to be running my programs, not having services running in the background that use resources, and increase the chance of the computer crashing.
Written by: flid
Substantiate any accusations you have with fact.
Thanks to Kerio I've seen how much software tries to connect to other computers on the internet, with no possible reason that's of direct use to me, and then used a packet sniffer to confirm that the data is something I don't want sent.
Written by: flid
To say that IE contains advertising is misguided. To say it has popups enabled as default is correct, it's a feature! Popups arn't evil, cookies arn't evil. Some people try doing evil things with them, but they arn't a problem in themselves.
But you can say that microsoft doesn't take sufficient steps to ensure that their software can't be exploited, as it is used by the majority of their customers.
Written by: flid
If you visit the sort of sites on a regular basis (*ahem*porn*warez*cracking*ahem*) that have dodgy popups on then you should perhaps change your browsing habits.
Your chances of seeing popups and getting activex/javascript installed spyware are still pretty high on plenty of other sites too. Spyware companies exploit the poor security of microsoft's IIS webserver running on other people's servers to install their products.
Written by: flid
There's a reason serious computer users (ie big business) use operating systems from large companies, it's stable and has support.
No it's because the software is advertised. Far too many people confuse being well known with being good quality, and never take into account the fact that someone has spent time and money to make it better known, whereas someone else may have spent that time or money on making a better product.
Stable is relative. Windows is only stable on hardware that has been tested. Plenty of people can't afford the kind of high end server equipment that comprises most of that hardware.
Linux/Unix has a much better record of stability/security/performance. Sufficiently so that it is used by the most highly trafficed web servers like Yahoo with FreeBSD, and Google with RedHat. The most popular webserver software is Apache, MySQL and PHP.
----
Written by: flid
I'd never in a million years recomend people use microsoft windows as a server, but i'd also not recomend using completely open source software unless they really know what they are doing.
I use OpenBSD, and there's no hope of running it unless you're intelligent enough to read manuals (no user friendly installer, or huge numbers of programs installed and activated by default). There is an excellent support policy of RTFM or FOAD, and excellent documentation. If you want help with a problem you're required to list everywhere you've looked, and provide the system hardware diagnostic messages and config files. Anyone who modifies the kernel is told in no uncertain terms to F*** off, unless they can replicate their problem on the default kernel.
Written by: flid
Open source software released under GNU GPL (as opposed to something like MIT) is not free.
The Free vs Open argument is a bit screwed up, thanks to the varying usage of terms.
The Free Software Foundation considers things free if there are restrictions to stop them ever becoming non free, while the Open Source Initiative consider free to mean having no restrictions or requirements at all (except perhaps credit where credit is due). Essentially GPL is neither open or free, as there are restrictions.
I'm not a big fan of Linux. It's too much of a mess with hundreds of distros, lots of software that does the same thing and doesn't follow standards, and very poor documentation (because there is no requirement that code is submitted with it, unlike the way OpenBSD's source code is managed).
OpenBSD is without a doubt the best operating system if you want security. There is nothing in the distribution that isn't open source, unlike Linux and other BSDs that accept closed drivers and third party software that may contain exploitable flaws. The developers have experience of commercial products who's flaws are denied, as admitting them would be bad PR, and require fixing them.
I also use NetBSD because I'm mad enough to want Unix on some obscure hardware. (I've got it on a Dreamcast, and a Palmtop with Japanese Windows CE in ROM).
The film 'A Beautiful Mind' covers the topic of governing dynamics, and how a system is most beneficial to everyone when they are all working for the benefit of themselves and the whole.
Western capitalism is a system where the benefit to the owners of a company are placed above the benefit to society. In American law a corporation is required to place the needs of it's shareholders above its customers, and nothing is done unless it is in an effort to increase profits. There is no such thing as a corporation doing pro bono work, as the benefit to themselves in terms of PR and advertising must outweigh the cost of giving money away, in order to achieve profits.
Only that it's no longer owned by IBM
Written by: flid
Since when? I ran os/2 warp in 94-96
IBM may still be supporting old versions in a minimal way, but all rights have been sold to Serenity Systems, and it's now being developed under the name eComStation.
Written by: flid
The questions you need to ask yourself when getting stuff for free is why is it free, and how do the people producing it earn a living.
In the case of a lot of free 'anti spyware' software the product is actually made by the same companies as spyware, and is a way for them to harvest more information.
Written by: flid
If it's a huge company like Microsoft or Sun with lots of money to burn and can afford to fund free stuff then they do so as it's good advertising for them. MS arn't stupid enough to use spyware. Don't be silly.
That depends on the definition of spyware. Malware is a more correct term for programs that subvert security or do annoying things, while spyware's definition is 'software that subverts the computer's operation for the benefit of a third party.' (according to wikipedia). Even windows itself falls into this category, as it sends a lot of data back to microsoft. This may not be surreptitious, but it is of benefit to a third party (microsoft may sell statistics , or otherwise benefit from havin access to that information). It counts as subverting the computers operation, because I consider the computers purpose to be running my programs, not having services running in the background that use resources, and increase the chance of the computer crashing.
Written by: flid
Substantiate any accusations you have with fact.
Thanks to Kerio I've seen how much software tries to connect to other computers on the internet, with no possible reason that's of direct use to me, and then used a packet sniffer to confirm that the data is something I don't want sent.
Written by: flid
To say that IE contains advertising is misguided. To say it has popups enabled as default is correct, it's a feature! Popups arn't evil, cookies arn't evil. Some people try doing evil things with them, but they arn't a problem in themselves.
But you can say that microsoft doesn't take sufficient steps to ensure that their software can't be exploited, as it is used by the majority of their customers.
Written by: flid
If you visit the sort of sites on a regular basis (*ahem*porn*warez*cracking*ahem*) that have dodgy popups on then you should perhaps change your browsing habits.
Your chances of seeing popups and getting activex/javascript installed spyware are still pretty high on plenty of other sites too. Spyware companies exploit the poor security of microsoft's IIS webserver running on other people's servers to install their products.
Written by: flid
There's a reason serious computer users (ie big business) use operating systems from large companies, it's stable and has support.
No it's because the software is advertised. Far too many people confuse being well known with being good quality, and never take into account the fact that someone has spent time and money to make it better known, whereas someone else may have spent that time or money on making a better product.
Stable is relative. Windows is only stable on hardware that has been tested. Plenty of people can't afford the kind of high end server equipment that comprises most of that hardware.
Linux/Unix has a much better record of stability/security/performance. Sufficiently so that it is used by the most highly trafficed web servers like Yahoo with FreeBSD, and Google with RedHat. The most popular webserver software is Apache, MySQL and PHP.
----
Written by: flid
I'd never in a million years recomend people use microsoft windows as a server, but i'd also not recomend using completely open source software unless they really know what they are doing.
I use OpenBSD, and there's no hope of running it unless you're intelligent enough to read manuals (no user friendly installer, or huge numbers of programs installed and activated by default). There is an excellent support policy of RTFM or FOAD, and excellent documentation. If you want help with a problem you're required to list everywhere you've looked, and provide the system hardware diagnostic messages and config files. Anyone who modifies the kernel is told in no uncertain terms to F*** off, unless they can replicate their problem on the default kernel.
Written by: flid
Open source software released under GNU GPL (as opposed to something like MIT) is not free.
The Free vs Open argument is a bit screwed up, thanks to the varying usage of terms.
The Free Software Foundation considers things free if there are restrictions to stop them ever becoming non free, while the Open Source Initiative consider free to mean having no restrictions or requirements at all (except perhaps credit where credit is due). Essentially GPL is neither open or free, as there are restrictions.
I'm not a big fan of Linux. It's too much of a mess with hundreds of distros, lots of software that does the same thing and doesn't follow standards, and very poor documentation (because there is no requirement that code is submitted with it, unlike the way OpenBSD's source code is managed).
OpenBSD is without a doubt the best operating system if you want security. There is nothing in the distribution that isn't open source, unlike Linux and other BSDs that accept closed drivers and third party software that may contain exploitable flaws. The developers have experience of commercial products who's flaws are denied, as admitting them would be bad PR, and require fixing them.
I also use NetBSD because I'm mad enough to want Unix on some obscure hardware. (I've got it on a Dreamcast, and a Palmtop with Japanese Windows CE in ROM).
The film 'A Beautiful Mind' covers the topic of governing dynamics, and how a system is most beneficial to everyone when they are all working for the benefit of themselves and the whole.
Western capitalism is a system where the benefit to the owners of a company are placed above the benefit to society. In American law a corporation is required to place the needs of it's shareholders above its customers, and nothing is done unless it is in an effort to increase profits. There is no such thing as a corporation doing pro bono work, as the benefit to themselves in terms of PR and advertising must outweigh the cost of giving money away, in order to achieve profits.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.
flid
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Total posts: 3136
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Total posts: 3136
Posted:Written by: Polarity
It counts as subverting the computers operation, because I consider the computers purpose to be running my programs, not having services running in the background that use resources, and increase the chance of the computer crashing.
well, i'm sure some of the info is to help stop crashes in future, such as your hardware info, usage etc.
Written by: Polarity
No it's because the software is advertised.
That's certain a factor, as with all products in life, but I stand by my original comments. Having live servers down that are core to a business (databases, dns etc) can cost more than an IT budget for a year in minutes. Support is big business (it pays my wages anyway), generally costing 10-20% of the list price per year. Being able to call people who know the OS inside out and have them answer questions immediately/fix code in hours outstrips the saving from running domestic grade linux. That and of course an OS that supports proper failover
Written by: Polarity
I'm not a big fan of Linux. It's too much of a mess with hundreds of distros
Agreed, I only use it for my mythtv box these days. Gentoo is incredibly similar in design to fbsd, so i feel at home. I use it lots at work, but it's our custom distro that I know well and is built from the ground up with security in mind and includes a lot of neat features i haven't seen elsewhere on systems in its price bracket.
Written by: Polarity
OpenBSD is without a doubt the best operating system if you want security. <snip> I use OpenBSD, and there's no hope of running it unless you're intelligent enough to read manuals (no user friendly installer, or huge numbers of programs installed and activated by default).
I kind of agree. I ran openbsd for a couple of years on my house's firewall/nat machine whilst at uni. In the end thou i got annoyed with its backwardness.
Written by: Polarity
Linux/Unix has a much better record of stability/security/performance. Sufficiently so that it is used by the most highly trafficed web servers like Yahoo with FreeBSD, and Google with RedHat. The most popular webserver software is Apache, MySQL and PHP.
Absolutely, I've had a fbsd machine in telehouse for the past 3 years running as my webserver with a 99.5% uptime. My openbsd box ran for almost 2 years solid with a ups in a cupboard with no cpu fan. I finally had to unplug it because the owner of the ups moved out.
Written by: Polarity
There is no such thing as a corporation doing pro bono work, as the benefit to themselves in terms of PR and advertising must outweigh the cost of giving money away, in order to achieve profits.
Surely you're not saying that the McDonalds charity that gives away about 0.001% of it's yearly profit is more about advertising than charity?
Bill Gates was on stage at live 8 earlier, and i'm typing this on IE on XP 
It counts as subverting the computers operation, because I consider the computers purpose to be running my programs, not having services running in the background that use resources, and increase the chance of the computer crashing.
well, i'm sure some of the info is to help stop crashes in future, such as your hardware info, usage etc.
Written by: Polarity
No it's because the software is advertised.
That's certain a factor, as with all products in life, but I stand by my original comments. Having live servers down that are core to a business (databases, dns etc) can cost more than an IT budget for a year in minutes. Support is big business (it pays my wages anyway), generally costing 10-20% of the list price per year. Being able to call people who know the OS inside out and have them answer questions immediately/fix code in hours outstrips the saving from running domestic grade linux. That and of course an OS that supports proper failover
Written by: Polarity
I'm not a big fan of Linux. It's too much of a mess with hundreds of distros
Agreed, I only use it for my mythtv box these days. Gentoo is incredibly similar in design to fbsd, so i feel at home. I use it lots at work, but it's our custom distro that I know well and is built from the ground up with security in mind and includes a lot of neat features i haven't seen elsewhere on systems in its price bracket.
Written by: Polarity
OpenBSD is without a doubt the best operating system if you want security. <snip> I use OpenBSD, and there's no hope of running it unless you're intelligent enough to read manuals (no user friendly installer, or huge numbers of programs installed and activated by default).
I kind of agree. I ran openbsd for a couple of years on my house's firewall/nat machine whilst at uni. In the end thou i got annoyed with its backwardness.
Written by: Polarity
Linux/Unix has a much better record of stability/security/performance. Sufficiently so that it is used by the most highly trafficed web servers like Yahoo with FreeBSD, and Google with RedHat. The most popular webserver software is Apache, MySQL and PHP.
Absolutely, I've had a fbsd machine in telehouse for the past 3 years running as my webserver with a 99.5% uptime. My openbsd box ran for almost 2 years solid with a ups in a cupboard with no cpu fan. I finally had to unplug it because the owner of the ups moved out.
Written by: Polarity
There is no such thing as a corporation doing pro bono work, as the benefit to themselves in terms of PR and advertising must outweigh the cost of giving money away, in order to achieve profits.
Surely you're not saying that the McDonalds charity that gives away about 0.001% of it's yearly profit is more about advertising than charity?
Bill Gates was on stage at live 8 earlier, and i'm typing this on IE on XP Delete
Posted:Written by: newgabe
So I opened Safari, the browser that comes with System X. And was able to. May as well just use Safari! Though I would like to give Firefox a try as so many people say it's nice.
My friend who used Safari has said that Firefox is much easier and nicer to use.
Written by: flid
If you visit the sort of sites on a regular basis (*ahem*porn*warez*cracking*ahem*) that have dodgy popups on then you should perhaps change your browsing habits.
So your saying my 11 year old sister is visiting those sites? She gets alot of popups and spyware from sites like nickeloden, neopets, and all those silly sites.
and with regards to support, most of the commercial linix dists have great support forums and hotlines. There is also everyones friend google.
Written by: flid
...Bill Gates was on stage at live 8 earlier...
Bill Gates is a salesman, a very clever salesman.
Non-Https Image Link
Have either of you used the Clarkconnect Apache, PHP, mySQL all in one installer? This was one option for me for a personal web server. It offers most things any one would need. mail, gallery, antivirus, firewall, bandwidth managment.
So I opened Safari, the browser that comes with System X. And was able to. May as well just use Safari! Though I would like to give Firefox a try as so many people say it's nice.
My friend who used Safari has said that Firefox is much easier and nicer to use.
Written by: flid
If you visit the sort of sites on a regular basis (*ahem*porn*warez*cracking*ahem*) that have dodgy popups on then you should perhaps change your browsing habits.
So your saying my 11 year old sister is visiting those sites? She gets alot of popups and spyware from sites like nickeloden, neopets, and all those silly sites.
and with regards to support, most of the commercial linix dists have great support forums and hotlines. There is also everyones friend google.
Written by: flid
...Bill Gates was on stage at live 8 earlier...
Bill Gates is a salesman, a very clever salesman.
Non-Https Image Link
Have either of you used the Clarkconnect Apache, PHP, mySQL all in one installer? This was one option for me for a personal web server. It offers most things any one would need. mail, gallery, antivirus, firewall, bandwidth managment.
Do we sleep when we die?
Deleteflid
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Total posts: 3136
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Total posts: 3136
Posted:if it's just popups that are your problem as opposed to dodgy popups, install service pack2. Whether you use firefox on windows or not you should still get sp2.
most commercial linuxes do have support, correct, but not the sort of support terms big companies require (ie a guaranteed response time within a short period of time).
Never used an all in one installer for it, I know how to install them seperatly so not much need.
most commercial linuxes do have support, correct, but not the sort of support terms big companies require (ie a guaranteed response time within a short period of time).
Never used an all in one installer for it, I know how to install them seperatly so not much need.
Delete
MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004
Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Total posts: 3415
GOLD Member since Apr 2004
Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Total posts: 3415
Posted:i've tried openbsd a few times. definitely not a home user thing. it's really hard to play games on. as that's what i spend most of my time doing, it seems that windblows is the best/possibly the only way to go *shrugs*
I love opera. tis a nice browser.
In two years of not running any form of anti-anything, i picked up 7 virii (nothing particularly nasty, either. two of them were joke progs that i knew about. coffe cup holder is a virus?), and 18 spybots. and thats with going to a fair few 'bad' sites.
honestly, for what i need it for, winxp does what i need it to. i've got 12 days of uptime now, and nothing's falling apart. i need to reboot soon tho, as i installed alcohol, the best program ever. Sure, if i was a massive corporation where every spare fraction of a percent of cpu time was vital and worth lots, it wouldn't be all that good. If i was running an uber secure server or something, it wouldn't be all that good. but (un?)fortunately, im neither of those, or the half-dozen other situations where maximum security, minimum processor optimization and stuff are needed.
using less ram would be nice though
I love opera. tis a nice browser.
In two years of not running any form of anti-anything, i picked up 7 virii (nothing particularly nasty, either. two of them were joke progs that i knew about. coffe cup holder is a virus?), and 18 spybots. and thats with going to a fair few 'bad' sites.
honestly, for what i need it for, winxp does what i need it to. i've got 12 days of uptime now, and nothing's falling apart. i need to reboot soon tho, as i installed alcohol, the best program ever. Sure, if i was a massive corporation where every spare fraction of a percent of cpu time was vital and worth lots, it wouldn't be all that good. If i was running an uber secure server or something, it wouldn't be all that good. but (un?)fortunately, im neither of those, or the half-dozen other situations where maximum security, minimum processor optimization and stuff are needed.
using less ram would be nice though
"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA
"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie
Posted:Written by: flid
if it's just popups that are your problem as opposed to dodgy popups, install service pack2. Whether you use firefox on windows or not you should still get sp2.
i stated above that i use it. And i was saying that there is nasty pop ups and spyware from kids sites and not just warez,porn sites etc.
if it's just popups that are your problem as opposed to dodgy popups, install service pack2. Whether you use firefox on windows or not you should still get sp2.
i stated above that i use it. And i was saying that there is nasty pop ups and spyware from kids sites and not just warez,porn sites etc.
Do we sleep when we die?
Deleteflid
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Total posts: 3136
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Total posts: 3136
Posted:Written by: Mig
honestly, for what i need it for, winxp does what i need it to. i've got 12 days of uptime now, and nothing's falling apart. i need to reboot soon tho, as i installed alcohol, the best program ever. Sure, if i was a massive corporation where every spare fraction of a percent of cpu time was vital and worth lots, it wouldn't be all that good. If i was running an uber secure server or something, it wouldn't be all that good. but (un?)fortunately, im neither of those, or the half-dozen other situations where maximum security, minimum processor optimization and stuff are needed.
I agree completely. I use it at work too - a windows xp laptop with 5 to 10 ssh sessions open. I'm not sure what the fuss is about other than some people confusing servers (machines that need large uptimes, should only do what they are required, no gfx or monitor other than initial configuration) with workstations (work machines that need to be stable and fast but reasonably multipurpose) and desktops (home computers, multipurpose, you get what you pay for, if it crashes it's not the end of the world cause you arn't using it to make a living from and you should have backed up recently). A lot of crashes on desktops is caused by substandard components, that's not a fault of the OS, that's scrimping on behalf of the user/system builder.
honestly, for what i need it for, winxp does what i need it to. i've got 12 days of uptime now, and nothing's falling apart. i need to reboot soon tho, as i installed alcohol, the best program ever. Sure, if i was a massive corporation where every spare fraction of a percent of cpu time was vital and worth lots, it wouldn't be all that good. If i was running an uber secure server or something, it wouldn't be all that good. but (un?)fortunately, im neither of those, or the half-dozen other situations where maximum security, minimum processor optimization and stuff are needed.
I agree completely. I use it at work too - a windows xp laptop with 5 to 10 ssh sessions open. I'm not sure what the fuss is about other than some people confusing servers (machines that need large uptimes, should only do what they are required, no gfx or monitor other than initial configuration) with workstations (work machines that need to be stable and fast but reasonably multipurpose) and desktops (home computers, multipurpose, you get what you pay for, if it crashes it's not the end of the world cause you arn't using it to make a living from and you should have backed up recently). A lot of crashes on desktops is caused by substandard components, that's not a fault of the OS, that's scrimping on behalf of the user/system builder.
Delete
Posted:Polarity.. now Im holding a 64mb datastick thingy.. How do I get firefox onto it? 
Do I simply copy Firefox.exe onto it and run it from the pen drive everytime I need it? and can this work on Work computers?
Do I simply copy Firefox.exe onto it and run it from the pen drive everytime I need it? and can this work on Work computers?
Delete
polarity
SILVER Member since May 2005
veteran
Location: on the wrong planet, United Ki...
Total posts: 1228
SILVER Member since May 2005
veteran
Location: on the wrong planet, United Ki...
Total posts: 1228
Posted:You can't use the standard firefox, as it keeps a bunch of stuff in the registry and your user folder. You can get a special version here, that's written to run from USB keys.
You could also put miranda on the drive. It's a messenger program that supports MSN, ICQ, AIM, Yahoo messenger and loads of others. Saves having lots of programs running if your friends use different programs.
You could also put miranda on the drive. It's a messenger program that supports MSN, ICQ, AIM, Yahoo messenger and loads of others. Saves having lots of programs running if your friends use different programs.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.
polarity
SILVER Member since May 2005
veteran
Location: on the wrong planet, United Ki...
Total posts: 1228
SILVER Member since May 2005
veteran
Location: on the wrong planet, United Ki...
Total posts: 1228
Posted:Written by: Richee
No Cleaners, they are most of em bad coded.
No, most of them are released by companies that make spyware, who also make dozens of websites to promote their fake programs and rubbish the good ones. That makes it really hard to find a good one, so most people give up or end up paying for some crap from norton or symantec.
Not using them is a very bad idea, as firewalls don't stop all of them, no matter how good they are. Spyware gets so deep into the system it can completely bypass a firewall, opening the computer up completely. Antivirus isn't designed to find spyware, as it only scans certain places..
Spybot S&D and Ad-Aware are the only two I know of that are legitimate, quality products.
No Cleaners, they are most of em bad coded.
No, most of them are released by companies that make spyware, who also make dozens of websites to promote their fake programs and rubbish the good ones. That makes it really hard to find a good one, so most people give up or end up paying for some crap from norton or symantec.
Not using them is a very bad idea, as firewalls don't stop all of them, no matter how good they are. Spyware gets so deep into the system it can completely bypass a firewall, opening the computer up completely. Antivirus isn't designed to find spyware, as it only scans certain places..
Spybot S&D and Ad-Aware are the only two I know of that are legitimate, quality products.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.
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