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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:I have no children yet, but I swear to them by everything I hold holy:

1) I will never expect you to behave older than your age.
2) No matter how proud I am of you, I will never parade you around in front of my friends like a prize goat at a county fair.
3) I will never place my pride before your needs.
4) I will accept your dreams and your values, even when they differ from mine. I only ask that you respect those who are different from you and love yourself.
5) I will help you to work around your weaknesses, rather than using them as a tool to control you.
6) I will foster in you a sense of independence and self-worth, rather than trying to undermine them to fulill my own need to feel needed.
7) I will do my best to be there when you need me...and to back off when you don't.
8) I will never refuse to spend money on you and then lavish it on myself.

Why this post? Why now?

Because my mother just committed EVERY offense listed above in a span of three hours.

In this day, the culmination of my upbringing, the weekend where I graduate from medical school and become finally an independent and free adult, those very behaviors of my mother have similarly culminated...and this time my father is not around to temper her self-absorbed zeal.

She loves me, I can't deny that, but that can't excuse what she has done to me my entire life. She has worked as hard as she could to undermine my confidence, make me feel inadequate and dependent, and to control me.

So I'm going to New York alone to start my life and move in on my own...alone. She was going to come and help me, but I just told her that she's no longer welcome.

It's a tough day, folks. It should have been the happiest of my life. Instead, I'm debating whether I ever want to talk to my mother again, or whether she's finally demonstrated to me that her selfishness and pride are more important than her son.

If someone has seriously wronged you, you may choose to seek revenge or to permanently cast that person out of your life... I always choose the second.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Skulduggery
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales

Total posts: 8428
Posted:frown hug

Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Sounds a bit harsh.

I used to feel a lot of resentment about similar actions from my parents, but, as I got older I looked more at what they must have gone though with their parents (looking back it's now obvious that my grandparents were seriously disfunctional), and, considering that, I think they just did the best job they could, under the circumstances.

I'm also sure that prior to having me and my brothers, my parents probably had some noble intentions about how they'd treat us, and these would have included not making the mistakes their parents did.

In the actuality of bringing up three kids whilst making a living, I expect those original intentions inevitably get compromised to some extent.

If you don't want someone in your life then that's your decision, but there's also the option of a long break, rather than casting out permanently.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Okay...so as a parent can I amend one of them?

#5.. I have yet to see a parent help a child "work around" their weakness. That calls for resignment into the weakness and most parents will try to help their child strengthen those weaknesses, though some not gently to be sure.

In 3 hours huh? Wow!

Now, I am not condoning her behaviour because I don't know the situation and because I can't even fathom all of what she must have done, but I will say that the parading the child around is *extremely* common, and I will admit, at times, hard to fight back when you are filled with parental pride. I also know that for me personally it is not from wanting attention for me, but wanting recognition for him...though I do curb it because it is not a nice thing to do.

I am sorry that your relationship with her is so tumultuous. I have to agree with your always siding with the cutting someone from your life option. It is hard. I've done it as well in the past and it made my parents realize that they were in the wrong and had no right to be doing the things they had done. They have since changed how they treat me in order to be a remote part of my life. Perhaps it will do so for your mother as well.

The thing with parents is that even when we don't like them, or thier actions, there is still that inner child that loves them. That inner child is the hard one to tune out, and shouldn't fully be.
Unsolicited advice:
Keep limits on your interactions with her, and when she crosses them, be very clear about your non-acceptance of it. When things reached their worst with mine, I blew up on the phone, boycotted family events and such, but would still give them a monthly update. I at least had that respect for them.

I guess all I am really saying is do what you need to do but don't let years slip by either. Someday you will look back and find that not only did that hurt your mother but you as well...and the longer the time, the harder the bridge is to rebuild.

My love and support to you Mike. hug


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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pricklyleaf
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

pricklyleaf

with added berries
Location: Manchester

Total posts: 1365
Posted:I don't know much about the situation but I'd maybe try and see it through her eyes a bit. I'm guessing that if you say your dads not around, she may be very reluctant to loose you as well, perhaps shes just very lonley and scared shes going to loose you too, and doesn't know how to react and so is reacting in this way. Especially as you say she was wanting to move with you suggests to me that shes worried about being alone, rather than trying to keep you on a leash, if you get what I mean.

Like I say its very hard for me to comment, but from what you say about her trying to undermine your confidence and make you dependant, it seems like shes got serious self confidence and dependacy issues of her own. Im definately not saying that this is an excuse for treating people badly, but this could be a cause. She may feel that she doesn't know how to treat you as you are going through major changes in your life, or that shes (and you may feel this too) dug herself into a hole hen dealing with you, of repeatative spiraling behavoirs, that she can't get out of, in which case a little distance would help.

I'm also not trying to trivialise what you have said, mearly trying to rationalise why your mother treats you in the way she does, whether thats in a good way or bad.

Parent/child relationships are often strained and hard, so you can rest assured your not the only one that feels this way. I wouldn't reccomend compleatly stopping contact, as you may regret this later in life, but if you feel you need to, try and put some distance in your relationship temporarily, which should help both sides gain a little perspective. Alternativly, if it is that shes feeling very lonley and vunrable, move to New York, but keep in regular (regular doesn't have to mean frequent) contact, to reassure her that shes not going to loose you, and this may help her cool off a bit.

Good luck, hope it works out hug hug2 hug


Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

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DragonFury
BRONZE Member since Mar 2005

Draco Iracundia
Location: Adelaide

Total posts: 784
Posted:I had problems a little like that when i was younger, my way of dealing with it was putting alot of emotional distance between myself and my mum. When she noticed the distance and confronted it, i explained to her what she did, and then we worked it out. it took a couple years, but now my relationship with my mum is much stronger. And now because shes on the other side of the country she's less in my life. But i can say my mum never treated me like her parents treated her, and i've very glad of that.

Oh and Doc, why stop at NY, come to Australia smile


Do we sleep when we die?

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Hanz


Hanz

veteran
Location: Bendigo, Vic, Australia

Total posts: 1328
Posted:Doc, there isnt much I can say here, so this will have to do for now hug

However, I do have a friend who is in their mid 20s and doesnt speak to their mother due to some choices she has made... he says he doesnt care, he just seems angry... but I do wonder if he misses her at all from some things he says...


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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:The story:

"The Graduation Party."

Now, I had begged my mom not to have a graduation party for me for a number of reasons. The first of which is that I have a learning disability called dysgraphia that makes handwriting exceedingly difficult. Oh, I can scribble off a legible prescription or a shopping list, but writing more than three or four sentences becomes a tremendous effort, in spite of my ability to type quite well. Try writing with your non-dominant hand and you'll understand handwriting for me on a good day. I knew a graduation party would mean presents. I knew that presents mean thank-you notes. And you have to understand that in the high-society in which my mother lives, there is no such option as a non-handwritten thank-you note. Each note leaves me exhausted and frustrated. And now I have forty of them to write. Without the party, I would have had five.

It's a major weakness of mine. I can't handwrite. It will be an effort to do five of these a day. A dyslexic would more easily read the Bible.

I begged her to please keep the party small. There were one hundred fifty people there. There was a classical guitarist in spite of my clear demand that there would be no live musicians and no more than 50 guests. I couldn't move without someone coming up to me and asking me if I had just graduated medical school, where I was going, or what my specialty was to be. These people didn't even know me. I couldn't talk to old friends, or even to my old pediatrician. I had been moving all morning and I couldn't even eat because of all the well-wishers. And when I finally DID manage to sneak near the table of food, imagine my dismay, when, in spite of my having discussed the menu with my mother, there was not one scrap of vegetarian food. AT MY GRADUATION PARTY.

Oh, it got worse. Far worse. I was called on to cut the cake. What?

And then the RABBI showed up to bless me. And that was when I thanked him very much for showing up and apologized profusely for the misunderstanding, but I had to stand there and tell the Rabbi that I did not wish to be blessed by anyone today.

Now, you might think of this as being the whining of a spoiled brat, but let me lay it out in other words.

1) I will never expect you to act older than your age.
My mother has always expected this of me. Of course I'm an adult now, so it isn't an issue, but when I was ten, she once snarled at me that I was acting like a ten-year-old.

2) No matter how proud I am of you, I will never parade you around in front of my friends like a prize goat at a county fair.
This one explains itself.

3) I will never place my pride before your needs.
I needed to move and to say good-bye to people who had meant a lot to me in my life. My mother's need to show me off superceded that need. In fact, it even superceded my need to eat.

4) I will accept your dreams and your values, even when they differ from mine. I only ask that you respect those who are different from you and love yourself.
At this point you might be tempted to say something like "but your mom is just proud of you!"
NO SHE'S NOT. And the proof is that not one person at that party knew I was gay and I was under strict instructions not to tell anyone. She's not proud of me, she's proud of having raised a doctor. But me? She's deeply ashamed of me.

5) I will help you to work around your weaknesses, rather than using them as a tool to control you.
6) I will foster in you a sense of independence and self-worth, rather than trying to undermine them to fulill my own need to feel needed.
The thank-you notes are the story here. I just can't deal with them. It's why I never send out Christmas cards. I can send a letter, address an envelope, but not forty of them. Similarly, a dyslexic may read a sign but not a novel.

And so she has to address them for me. And then she'll nag me about how I can't possibly get along without her.

It's the sort of trick she's pulled often. When I was in my teens, I'd put something down (my wallet, my keys, etc.) and then they'd disappear. I always thought it was because I was a disorganized slob with ADHD, but in reality my mother was moving my things. She'd move them to perfectly obvious places, such as putting my wallet on my desk, but I'd have to ask her if she'd seen it and then she'd respond as if she'd seen it there and I hadn't put it there. The whole point was to make me feel helpless and worthless without her. It's the perfect abuse; it establishes control in the abuser and helplessness in the abusee without leaving a single mark.

Once I moved to college, I suddenly never lost a damned thing. And that was when I realized that I'd been had.

7) I will do my best to be there when you need me...and to back off when you don't.

My mother tried to tell me not to leave for New York today (I'm in a hotel just across from Manhattan right now) and tried to micro-manage every aspect of my move. Yet whenever I have needed her support she's disappeared off on some trip or jaunt or errand that was more important than me. I've been left out in the snow for an hour and a half after swim practice when I was 14. When I was applying to medical school, she took off on a luxury cruise for two months...and when I came back the first thing she did was nag me about whether I'd been on-time with my applications (I had) and then started trying to micromanage them again.

It's this sort of behavior...and now she's coming to New York tomorrow...to "help me" move in. Over my objections she's still coming. Her foot's in a cast, mind you; she can't help me.

I'm not quite sure what to do about it. I think I'm going to inform her that she is to enjoy New York but that she will not see me all week.

8) I will never refuse to spend money on you and then lavish it on myself.

My mother had told me that she would help me with the costs of buying new furniture. That was one reason why I got rid of all of my old stuff before moving. And then at the last minute, she balked.

The party must have cost $5,000 between the valet, the four caterers, the two housekeepers, the guitarist, and the food and drink (and it wasn't cheap drink, either). But now she won't buy me a stick of furniture.

Really, I should have seen this coming. My father had protected me from the full brunt of my mother, but since his death she's become limitless and knows no boundaries. She loves me, yes, but she loves without boundaries and her love stifles and causes great hurt.

My sisters, who aren't her natural daughters, broke off all contact after our father died. My aunt, her sister, has stopped speaking to her, and my uncle, her brother, has told me he's at his wit's end. My brother and I can only stare at each-other and wonder what to do.

But yesterday was the kicker. I am not her son, I'm her doctor son. And I can assure you that when I get married, she will throw no such lavish party.

My father's last request to me was to take care of her, and I spent a fair amount of the drive to New York in tears screaming in the vain hope that he might answer:

Dad, HOW????


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Don't fly off the handle here, but, have you discussed this with her in an effective manner?

ie a discussion which didn't get overcome with emotion/anger.

Because it sounds, from the descriptions above, that she's done a lot of stuff that's totally out of order, and consistently disregarded your feelings to the point of trampling all over them.

One concern would be that sometimes, in that situation, there's an extent to which both people are responsible because the 'victim' is allowing the other person to trample over their feelings.

So, given that you know from long experience what she's like, why did you allow/co-operate with her desire to have the party in the first place?

I'm not talking about being to blame here; rather about being partly responsible.

If you think objectively about communication efforts in the past, and conclude that there has been no effective communication, then maybe you could think about trying to bring some about.

This could involve some form of talk monitored/guided/controlled by an unbiased professional (there's a word for this but I can't recall it).

Writing down your feelings in a letter (typed of course) is another excellent way of communicating with someone who you care about, but with whom verbal communication has become impossible due to high emotions from past pain.

(and I'm sure you know from posting on HOP, that even the medium of pure text can allow high feelings and ego to creep in, so you do have to be careful.

However, you text in the post above seems to do quite a good job of getting across how you feel about some of her past actions, so I think you could do a good job of it).


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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squarexbear
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

squarexbear

....of doom!
Location: Hastings, UK

Total posts: 585
Posted:Written by: onewheeldave
This could involve some form of talk monitored/guided/controlled by an unbiased professional (there's a word for this but I can't recall it).


^mediation? family therapy? counselling?^

doc
do you think that your mother could be mentally ill?
have you considered that her worsening behaviour could be a result of your fathers death, rather than a result of the boundaries being removed? grief is odd.

hug


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The Tea Fairy
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

The Tea Fairy

old hand
Location: Behind you...

Total posts: 853
Posted:I can kind of sympathise, my mother is controlling too but she uses really hefty guilt trips to get her own way. I've been through periods of not communicating with her because we've been through times where everything she says to me made me cry, EVERY conversation left me hurting in some way or feeling inadequate.

Cutting off communication for a while does help. I didn't pick up the phone or call my mum for two weeks once, then when I finally spoke to her I made very clear to her that if she upset me, I would hang up and she will not be able to contact me again for a few weeks. She understands who I am better now, she didn't realise how much she was hurting me until I put my foot down and told her I couldn't bear any more.

What would happen if you point blank refused to write those thank-you notes? If your mum starts clucking about politeness and courtesy, turn around and tell her how hard it is for you to do, how time consuming when you have other commitments, and at the end of the day, if they're that important to her she can do them herself.

If these notes of thanks to all these people you don't know are not really important to you, you should not be obliged to do them. Don't let her make you feel bad about them, it sounds to me like they shouldn't be your problem.

Come to think of it, what would have happened if you had shouted "I'm Gay!" to everyone at your party? She'd be horrified I imagine, but maybe it would have felt good for you.

I think that if you do keep in contact with her, you need to make a huge effort at just being yourself around your mum, telling her how you feel and to hell with the consequences! Do not let her make you feel bad, clarify to her that you have your own priorities, attitudes and values that deserve respect even though they are different from hers and you are proud of them even if she is not. Do not let her impose things on you against your will!

It's always hard going against a parent, no matter how old you are, but sometimes they do need to be shown where they are doing harm to their relationships with their kids.


Idolized by Aurinoko

Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....

Bob Dylan

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Written by: onewheeldave

Don't fly off the handle here, but, have you discussed this with her in an effective manner?

ie a discussion which didn't get overcome with emotion/anger.



It's quite impossible, I assure you. Her only response was "all these people have known you since you were a little boy and it was important to them!"

A good 80% of those people haven't seen me since I was a little boy over 20 years ago and probably wouldn't have noticed if they hadn't been invited.

Oh and about the guitarist and the rabbi and the cake cutting: "It wasn't my idea! It wasn't under my control!" It may sound like an absurd claim, seeing as how she was the hostess and all, but in my mother's world, she can do no wrong; it's never her fault.

Written by:

One concern would be that sometimes, in that situation, there's an extent to which both people are responsible because the 'victim' is allowing the other person to trample over their feelings.

So, given that you know from long experience what she's like, why did you allow/co-operate with her desire to have the party in the first place?



My dad's request, really.

Written by:
If you think objectively about communication efforts in the past, and conclude that there has been no effective communication, then maybe you could think about trying to bring some about.



I've tried, therapists have tried, psychiatrists have tried, and when they failed the same psychiatrists suggested to me that I move out of the house as early as when I was 15. She had my life so neatly controlled that I couldn't do that and communication, I'm afraid, is quite impossible.

Remember, she's perfect. In her world nothing could be wrong. I'm just an ungrateful brat.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Written by: The Tea Fairy

Come to think of it, what would have happened if you had shouted "I'm Gay!" to everyone at your party? She'd be horrified I imagine, but maybe it would have felt good for you.



You know, the thought had occurred...

The problem is that it would have been inappropriate in the setting and that would have put me behind rather than ahead. I was tempted to quietly start telling people that my best friend, who was there, was actually my boyfriend (he wouldn't have minded). But I don't believe in lying, so there was no point and no graceful way to bring it up. Because nobody asked if I had a girlfriend. Which amazes me. If just one person had asked, and I wish they had, then I would have told them that no, and actually I'm gay, but there's no boyfriend, either.

But, amazingly, nobody did. I think they just assumed that if there was, she'd be there and that since there wasn't, I must be between women.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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=Flashpoint=
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

=Flashpoint=

Pasta of Muppets
Location: in the interwebs...

Total posts: 2719
Posted:Doc, Mike, I totally agree with squarexedge and tea fairy above. She might have been controlling before, is she any worse now? However, I'm not a doctor, and couldn't advise.

Mike, dude, you have to tell her that you are not who she has made you out in her head to be. She might even have gone to the extent of truly believing that, as you say, you are her doctor son, not Mike.

And as for OWD, she has been out of order. Don't cut her out, just let her know who you are. Again. And until she realises you are a good guy.


ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!
ubbrollsmileubbrollsmileubbrollsmileubbrollsmile

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Written by: squarexedge

^mediation? family therapy? counselling?^

doc
do you think that your mother could be mentally ill?
have you considered that her worsening behaviour could be a result of your fathers death, rather than a result of the boundaries being removed? grief is odd.

hug



Counseling is completely ineffective.

I've tried to diagnose the disorder. It's clear that it's some sort of Axis II disorder, also known as a personality disorder. But I can't figure out what it is. It's not Borderline, it could be Narcisistic possibly, it isn't Schizotypal or Schizoid, and it's not Antisocial...

Probably Narcisistic, but an odd way of manifesting, that's for sure.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004

MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG

Total posts: 3415
Posted:could it be that she has an excessively dominant personality, and this is her only outlet for it? or maybe that you're yet to truly 'grow up' in her eyes, and that you're still her little boy? or a combination of both?

"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:My mom's crazy.

Fortunately, I'm really good at keeping her at arm's length. The most important step for me was to become financially independant (which I did at about 20)... after that, she had no say in my life.

A few years ago I stopped talking to her for about a year. I thought it would be traumatic, but actually it was really really nice.

My mom actually came up with a really good analogy. (Ironic, I know)

She said, when you become an adult, it's like you have a boat and you cast off from the shore. And then you let only the people you want on the boat.

I found that really sound advice. My mom is only allowed on my boat for short spurts of time. Then she's escorted off by security.

It's funny because other members of my family are constantly traumatized by her because they tolerate much more of her drama than I do.

I believe in 'family'. But I also believe that when a relationship becomes abusive it must be stopped. That holds true for moms as well.

Some people believe that "because I'm your mother" is a reason to allow anything to happen. Some people believe that, no matter how much your mother abuses you, "she's still your mother" and you should forgive her. Some people are selfish, if they chose to become parents, they will be selfish parents.

There are members of my family whom are compassionate and loving. And I will continute to show my love for them. There are members of my family who are not able to love unconditionally, and they will not recieve the same in return.

I support your decision to distance yourself from your mother. For me, I found it useful to find which family members I wanted to remain close with and make sure that I was doing that.

Worst case scenarion, my mom will be in town Friday and she'd LOVE a gay doctor son. I'm sure I can arrange something. wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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OrangeBobo
SILVER Member since Nov 2003

OrangeBobo

veteran
Location: Guelph, ON, Canada

Total posts: 1389
Posted:Hmm, I think the hardest part about this, is that from what I'm getting, she's one of those people who swears they're doing something for the best - which from their point of view may very well be. They don't look at it and realize from another point of view, what they do and decide could be harmful, hurtful, and destructive. And when someone tries to point it out to them, that what they did was inacceptable, they wouldn't and don't understand why.

It's more of an inability to see different point of views. Not only was it a wish from your late father (if I read it correctly Lightning) but I think your mum felt it was necessary to hold a party like that. Even though it may have had major social influences (ie. 'high' society that was mentioned) she was *warning, I'm gonna say it* proud of you. Unfortunately, the way she expresses her pride, hurts and embarasses you. And she probably doesn't see or know why it does that to you.

The gay thing, I think, would refer back to the 'right and wrong' and not seeing another point of view. Homosexuality is wrong to her isn't it? Therefore, how can it bie 'right'? Ever? Even when it's her son?

It's sad to say, but after living with something like this, for your whole life, after trying to tame the beast, even with professionals, sometimes we can't change a person. Even when it would be for the better of society! Lightning, I remember reading one time that you would be happy when your mother passes on. Now I think I can understand a bit better, because you'd probably feel freed from a weight that has been holding you down your whole life.

It's really sad, but sometimes that's the way it is... frown hug

~ Bobo


wie weit, wie weit noch?
fragst mich, wo wir gewesen sind...
du fehlst hier

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:> 1) I will never expect you to behave older than your age.
This is a hard one. What is appropriate behaviour for different ages?
Most of the best kids I've ever met, the most adjusted, savy and intelligent, have been those who's parents have always treated them as equal. This leads to the kids appearing 'older' than others thier own age, but that older just means they've just got more a different life experience to the others.
So I think point 1 would have to include the word equality.

Not much to say about your mother though. Hopefully the distance will help you cool down somewhat.


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.:star:.
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

.:star:.

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1785
Posted:hug for lightning

I've been in very similar situations with my parents which i don't really want to go in to too much detail about but we've manage to sort out a lot of stuff.

It got to the point where had to say 'right now i can't cope with you in my life, i need to do this by myself' I didn't speak to them for a few months and then gradually let them back into my life but on my terms. It took a long time but now i have an amazing relationshop with my parents that i wouldn't change for the world.

I'm not sayting that this would work in every case but sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. I made sure that my parents understood that it'm my life, not theirs, and although i value their help and support its me that gets to make the decisions. a lot of parents find it very difficult to step back like that but i've found that in the long run it works out well.


I hope you manage to sort everything out lightning hug


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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Written by: OrangeBobo

she was *warning, I'm gonna say it* proud of you.t's the way it is... frown hug




No no, Bobo. Not proud of me. Proud of having raised a doctor.

She doesn't think homosexuality is wrong, but it's wrong in the sense that in her society, sons are supposed to marry women. If I was straight, then I'd be her dream.

A lot of her dream son died the day I came out. She wants to be envied by her friends as perfect, the mother of a nice young doctor who's getting married soon. But that's not how it's going to be.

So she's milking my accomplishment to feed her pride, but she's mortified that MIKE might get out. Dr. Mike is fine, but not the rest of me.

So she's not proud of me at all. She just claims to be. Really, it's self-pride. And I got used.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Sucks bigtime. And sounds true.

Well, realize you are giving her all the power she wants to have and it's your decision continute to do so.

You are, in some sense, consenting to everything she's doing right now. In some sense. Sort of.

Maybe write her a letter? Or write her a letter and don't send it yet?

Dunno, like I said, I do great without my mom in my life and even just knowing that was a bit empowering.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted:I'm reading this thread just after having a big conversation with a young lad who boards with me, having left home at 15 (with the support of his school counsellor) due to his unhealthy situation there.. particularly a controlling, critical father, who was into emotional abuse and who dishes out 'double binds' as clear as flouro tubes to anyone else... but to Dad it was 'good parenting with strong boundaries', 'wanting a son to be proud' of etc. He is just as abusive and self righteous to me and shows no signs of any self reflection or respect of others at all.

If these people were trailer trash (*bogans* in Aussie speak) who whacked their kids and swore so other people could hear it would be obvious they are messed up people who happened to have kids. This family is all wrapped up in money, church and private schooling, so they can give the impression of respectable, loving blah blah. The lad phoned up to talk to his Mum tonight and the dad lied that she was out then laid into him with a bunch of stuff about his 'long hair" (currently above his ears and about 4" shorter than when he was at home) and acne ( completely clear skin) This made me realise that the dad is not only not emotionally unperceptive, but actually physically can't see through his preconceptions of what a 'runaway son' should be. And he has absolutely no concern about his son's actual state. When the boy first left home the Dad''s first comment to me was "I suppose he's being saying nasty things about us"
The second was a threat to sue me if I damaged his property.

You used the term narcissistic Mike, and this is what it is. Narcissistic parenting is a horrible thing, as you don't have to be hit to be sorely bruised. And it's hard for others to see the damage when there's a cake and a rabbi/church blessing it.

For the child, feeding any sort of input into the system eg attempting a sound relationship, or offering an independent point of view, is like putting your finger in a blender. I agree with the 'escorted off the boat by security' approach. Trouble is, when it's a parent who is being thrown overboard,, there is immense grief, an inheritance of pain and orhpaned emotions, and an alienation from an essential human need called 'family'
In short, it sucks horribly.

My total thoughts are with you and I celebrate you, through all the painful things you have shared with us. How amazing that you have an internet 'family' brought together by things on strings. I hope we can be there for you.


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:i can't imagine how truly hurtful this must be mike.

i have no experience of this kind of relationship and reading this now, i realise just how lucky i am to be able to say that.

your view on the situation seems to be that you have tolerated this for long enough now.

the ny move should give you some distance but how to use that distance to try and build a better relationship with her is beyond me.

if it was someone you didn't love, i'd say turn your back and walk away right now.
but when you are talking about one of the few people in the world that should love you unconditionally, no matter who you are or what choices you have made, my head just spins.
i can't begin to imagine how i would deal in your place - i'd be a complete mess.

i'm sorry i can't offer you anything more than a caring ear and some long ol' arms to hug you with - i'll be thinking of you hug


take care doc,


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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The Tea Fairy
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

The Tea Fairy

old hand
Location: Behind you...

Total posts: 853
Posted:hug for Newgabe, you hit the nail on the head.

My mum hurt me so much emotionally, that although we get on much better now that we speak on my own terms, I still find it really hard to forgive her and accept she was trying to 'do the right thing' but it went horribly wrong. I still have moments when I'll feel incredibly bitter towards her... but then that makes me feel even worse about myself.

My friend always tells me that we don't 'owe' our parents anything, really. It was their joy to bring us into the world, often to fulfil a need they felt in their own life. Love is not about obligations, after all.


Idolized by Aurinoko

Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....

Bob Dylan

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Written by: newgabe

If these people were trailer trash (*bogans* in Aussie speak) who whacked their kids and swore so other people could hear it would be obvious they are messed up people who happened to have kids. This family is all wrapped up in money, church and private schooling, so they can give the impression of respectable, loving blah blah.



Newgabe brings up a good point. Everyone envies money, but as the song says, "mo' money mo' problems." People assume that becuase my family has money, I can't possibly have any problems and that I don't know the "real world."

Anyone who thinks that reality is inversely proportionate to money is not familiar with reality.

No, my mother didn't hit me other than spankings when I was a kid, but I've been called fat all my life... and now she keeps telling me to not be so "effeminate." Anyone who knows me knows that the LAST word to describe me is "effeminate." And even if I was...what's it to her?

In a way, physical abuse is easier to deal with because it leaves marks that can clearly be seen. Those marks bring about action. But emotional abuse brings no marks and, thus, nobody believes that this fine, upstanding lady can be the raging monster that she is.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:I just don't understand why a mother or father would do some of the things that they do.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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_khan_
SILVER Member since Nov 2004

_khan_

old hand
Location: San Francisco, California, USA

Total posts: 768
Posted:Oh Doc Lightning, I so identify. I have similar parental issues though with my father, not my mother. It sounds like a classic case of a parent relating to a child as a narcisstic extension rather than as a whole individual with his own subjectivity. The parent relates to the child as a status object more than as an actual person. Conflict arises when the child asserts a subjectivity. The party your mom had clearly was not really for you but for her...sounds like your graduating med school was treated as if it were her accomplishment and not yours. Or rather, as if you were merely the vehicle for her accomplishment as opposed to the person who actually did the accomplishing. Sigh. I've been there with my own family and have encountered this dynamic before, not just in parent-child relationships. It sucks and I'm sorry you have to go through it. I wish that I had some bit of sage advice to offer you, but alas, I do not. I'm not sure that anything I said to you would improve the situation though -- that won't happen until your mother is willing to see that her treatment of you is invalidating or is at least willing to consider the possibility that you may have legitimate issues with her behavior. So all I can offer you is hug as well as beerchug for graduating!



Burn bright my brutha!!

EDITED_BY: blueboy (1118114800)


taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco

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Bumfro


Bumfro

Its a bum with an afro...
Location: Newcastle NSW

Total posts: 223
Posted:Much love Doc hug
Gotta keep on livin' let nothing stop you to be what you know you can be, no matter what or who it is!
biggrin


Racism is a weapon of mass destruction

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:*My devious thought of last night...*

Tell your mom that you won't complain about her not telling people that you're gay if she'll just TRY lesbianism for a week.

(Hey, if it made you smirk it was worth it, and if not, at least I tried... wink )


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:EWWWW!!! NYC!!!!

NOT a mental picture I wanted!

EWWWWWW eek


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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