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Forums > Social Discussion > Why are teenagers lazy and apathetic thinkers?

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Gelfling
BRONZE Member since Jul 2004

Gelfling

Watcher of 80s cartoons
Location: Chepstow & Bristol, United Kin...

Total posts: 665
Posted:I am getting sick to death of teenagers wanting everything to be done for them. Why do they not think for themselves? Why is that they think everything should be spoon fed to them as though they have none of their own opinions? Why do they not care about anything?

It was not so long ago that I was a teenager myself and I remember being interested in environmental issues, I had various hobbies, I enjoyed certain subjects etc. But more importantly I had my own opinions and so to did my fellow classmates. At the moment though it seems like the teenagers I am teaching have no concept of the world. They lack basic general knowledge and they seem to be incapable of linking one principle with another. They do not have basic arguing skills. Consequently I find them rather dull.

Are my frustrations due to a prescribed education administered in the schools they went to before they got to college? Is it somehow my fault? What the hell is up with these people? How on Earth are they going to survive if they dont have basic communication skills?

Any teenagers who read this please start to think for yourselves if at present you are relying on others to do your thinking for you. If anyone has answers to these questions please let me know.


>What do you think about the state of the Earth?
>I'm optimistic.
>So why do you look so sad?
>I'm not sure that my optimism is justified.

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ben_in_a_spin
BRONZE Member since Mar 2005

ben_in_a_spin

member
Location: london / cambridge, United Kin...

Total posts: 32
Posted:I make no claims to speak for anyone other than myself, and certainly admit that i must speak from a limited personal experience - in other words, i am fully aware that i can make no informed generalisations about this topic. It might serve certain others to admit to these details as well.

the people i have met who seem to care most about the world - those with vision and a genuine determination to see it through no matter what - have all been labelled dreamers at one point or another. they are described as naive, as blind to the realities of human existence, as insensitive to the innate unpleasantness of humanity. if they achieve things, they are praised for their accomplishments partly out of a sense of astonishment that, in the face of what most people see as overwhelming odds, they have accomplished anything at all.

the adult population seems to take a certain glee in deflating the hopes of those people who feel things should be changed. they appear to enjoy playing the 'reality check' game, in which they assert what they see as correct views of the sorts of things that are possible within society. when i suggest, of course in higly polite terms, to my no doubt better-informed elders that it we should perhaps be moving towards less isolationist agricultural principles, that it is time to disband the CAP system almost universally recognised to be a severe barrier blocking the path towards fairer or freer global trade policies, I am answered with the simple fact that 'people would never vote for that'.

When i suggest that the agreement of 1970 UN general assembly resolution 1522 that the target of 0.7% of Gross National Product should be committed to development aid should be taken seriously by the G7 nations, all of whom agreed to it, but none of whom have achieved it 35 years on, I am answered with the ideas that 'times change', that such goals are no longer viable, or with the absolutely criminal speculation that 'all third world govenments are corrupt, and aid just goes to the rich'.

When i sugget that perhaps it is not inconceivable that people from all backgrounds, ages, inclinations, orientations or genders could live up to the now hackneyed ideals of peaceful co-existence, I am put down with preconceived ideas of 'human aggression', 'natural self-interest' or other pseudo-scientific theories designed to support the status quo.

and so, because of perceived practical issues, because of niggling doubts or the crippling skepticism that is embedded in the pages of every newspaper, in every television account of the most recent scandal concerning the personal lives of our government ministers, and in each political party's attempts to woo us with another personal attack on their opponents, we become paralysed. we are too concerned with unfounded pessimism and doubt to allow our plans to take root. this is not a teenage problem, it is universal and timeless, but for the purposes of this thread, it has clear ramifications for the younger generation.

let's see if i can summarize these:

you tell us that we don't care
you tell us that we should care
you tell us that we can't do anything if we do care
you tell us we couldnt do anything if we did care.

and then, after flooding us with these messages throughout our lives, you complain that we seem a bit apathetic.

forgive me, i am at an awkward stage in my life where i find myself having to begin to take responsibility for the world, and as a result i find myself constantly preoccupied with one thought:

we are soon going to be the generation in charge of mending everything that you mature, and apparently better educated, adults break. the problems of the world which we will be expected to sort out will be none of our making. what have the previous generations of smart and motivated people done? individuals have done plenty, but the structures remain as self-seeking and closed-minded as those against which the 60s revolts were based.

the opening post in this thread presents the issue as if something were amiss with today's teenagers, as if it is somehow our own wilful apathy that threatens the state. you phrase it as if you were hugely disappointed in our generation.

I wonder if you've considered how disappointed we are in yours.

sorry for the length of the post,
Ben


please help keep the world clean - others may wish to use it

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ImmortalAngel
SILVER Member since Jan 2004

Scientist!
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Total posts: 578
Posted:I think Ben's on to something, but his message would be better sent towards the people it was intended to. There are not that many narrow minded people on HoP, it's mostly hippies here.
I live in canada, and we're still struggling with the Geneva Convention Stuff, I think we're the only country who's failing miserably at it...


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />

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Facelessjoker
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

enthusiast
Location: Exeter, United Kingdom

Total posts: 249
Posted:After coming back to this thread and noticing my post has many spelling mistakes, then reading stouts post. Im sorry for my terrible spelling. However my typing is terrible unless i look at the keyboard so thats my excuse for the mistakes in the simple words tongue

I also didnt realise there was a spell check.

I was far from lazy in college when it came to work but i went in hoping to go to uni to do something specific but, as they do, my dreams changed, and i realised what i wanted to do had nothing to do with the subjects i was doing and my collgee didnt support my new found career choice, so i started slacking a bit. That does mean now (as someone else said, i forget who redface ) i have to work full time and study part time, but if i get what i want in the end i think it'll be worth it. smile


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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:*thinks ben has a definite point just wonders if it'll ever get to the people who need to hear it*

i would certainly agree with the idea that we are bombarded with the feeling that theres nothing we can do to change the world - look at recent news in the UK - what real steps has the UK (or any country) taken to solving any of the worlds problems?

The Kyoto agreement is pretty much worthless as most member states will not be able to achieve their targets in such a way to stop climate change. Greed still had such a hold on many groups that poverty is not any different to a few years back, and the government is driven by so many 'interest groups' that it is going in all directions at once to please the minority while the majority loses interest.

This year is my first chance to vote in a general election - i may not - not due to apathy or laziness just because no single party offers any believable manifesto that will make any real difference.

*shuts up realising that what was meant to be a short post has turned into another rant sorry guys ubbidea


back

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Well done Ben... keep holding on to your message and don't let the bastards grind you down biggrin

Getting to the other side smile

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Facelessjoker
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

enthusiast
Location: Exeter, United Kingdom

Total posts: 249
Posted:Written by: linden_rathen


This year is my first chance to vote in a general election - i may not - not due to apathy or laziness just because no single party offers any believable manifesto that will make any real difference.




I dunno i would use my vote for 2 reasons. First, I will vote for anyone as long as its against the BNP and second, if i dot use my vote im throwing away my right to complain about how bad society is biggrin
I cant complain then not vote to change, even if it is for a minor party.


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Fine_Rabid_Dog


Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...

Total posts: 10530
Posted:Written by: Facelessjoker

First, I will vote for anyone as long as its against the BNP and second, if i dot use my vote im throwing away my right to complain about how bad society is biggrin




Down with the BNP! They r utter, utter bastards!


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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MissEgyptology
BRONZE Member since Feb 2005

MissEgyptology

officially expelled from BYU
Location: Southern California, USA

Total posts: 195
Posted:<thumbs up> Extremely insightful, ben, and a nice read. As a person sort of in that same stage, I have to agree. I just never managed to pin it on the conflicted messages of the non-hippies over thirty.

"So Miss, I think you win the prize... A mormon egyptologist in a firespinning chat room... that's gotta be a record of some kind"
-NYC

Thanks, NYC,but I quit mormonism now XD

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MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004

MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia

Total posts: 3415
Posted:regarding voting, there's a bit in a book, called "Looking For Alibrandi", by Maria Marchetta, i think, that has quite a good say on voting. worth a look, and if i can, i'll find it and quote it on here. I think im allowed to do that, if i give the author credit?

Time for my two coins, as an australian not long out of school, uni, and into a pre-trade course. Bear in mind, these are my own opinions, thoughts and experiences talking, so dont expect them to be right.

School was crap. Uni was crap. The pre-trade course is... yup. Crap.

In an attempt to qualify the preceeding statement, i throw this forth

Really honestly, i dont think class based learning is really that effective. Given a bell curve spread of students, regarding interest, intellectual ability, subject based ability and attitude to learning (so, basically, the ones at the top end of the spread love it all, love the subject, and are brighter than a power station, while the lower end is the opposite), class based learning disregards pretty much everyone except for the average, middle 60-odd percent. The bright students, who want to excel get stuck marching at the pace of the slowest soldier, the slowest soldiers get annoyed at the fact that its all too hard and that nobody helps, while, of course, the middle set are on easy street comparitively.

Where, in the above scenario, is the incentive to strive, to excel, to lead?

I've been at both ends of the curve, and they both suck as much as the other. I can recall sitting in physics lectures, listening to the lecturer talking about electric interaction with gaussian surfaces (in a civil aviation degree. why we were doing calculus based physics is beyond me, but anywho), and hearing pretty much "blah blah blah X blah integrate blah blah" *DOONK* as my head hit the desk. It was way beyond anything i was then capable of doing, and i dont think i'll ever be at that level of physics. The problem was, it didnt feel like i could reach for help, and if you missed something in a lecture, or you didnt grasp how the lecturer explained it, too bad.

Now, in the pretrade course, i've hit the other side of the bump. I dont want to go all egotistical here, but without putting much effort in at all, im acing it. of the 5 or 6 tests we've had so far, none have been below 90%, and i've finished the modules the tests were for in about half the recommended time. As bragging as that may sound, it sucks. I hate it. It's getting harder and harder to get up and go everyday, knowing that chances are, im going to be sitting in a classroom, listening to smegheads doing what they do best, twiddling my thumbs. There is currently nothing i can go on to, nothing i can do to extend. I'm getting bored, im starting to lose focus, and i really dont want to do that, i really do want to make something of this course.

Having been to both ends, never quite hitting the middle (I think i may have been there for a while in my second to last year of school, then it all turned really hard and i slid down the bottom), classrooms just dont do it for me.

Boredom in others is also a major discontributor to classes. It only takes one smeg filled individual to mess things up for the people that really do want to be there, but thats a problem that's been hashed over many times.

There was going to be more, but i gots stuff to do, so more will come later, methinks.


"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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darkpoet
BRONZE Member since May 2003

darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA

Total posts: 525
Posted:Written by: ImmortalAngel

There are not that many narrow minded people on HoP, it's mostly hippies here.



even though im a raver and through my value system im essentially a neohippie....im not a hippie in any other manner...hippies are people that rant about how we need to do something but never do anything about it....
then again when so called "hippies" do something theyre labelled extremist liberal activists....so methinks im more of an active free thinker...NOT a "hippie"
hug


Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:agrees w/ rabid
to stop BNP is definatly worth voting for


back

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Stainless Munchkin


Stainless Munchkin

Master of the Munchkins


Total posts: 246
Posted:Gelfling i am at school at the mo, u shud ask to teach a higher sets, because i am in highish sets for everything and we all work hard and playt hard, and the teachers know as much

Are you that clever that you smile forever? biggrin

What's from the Earth is of the greatest worth

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_Aime_
SILVER Member since Jan 2004

_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings, United Kingdom

Total posts: 4172
Posted:Written by: Stainless Munchkin


Gelfling i am at school at the mo, u shud ask to teach a higher sets, because i am in highish sets for everything and we all work hard and playt hard, and the teachers know as much





hmmm...students studying A-level Environmental Science, A-level Biology, BND Applied Science and A-level Human Biology arn't exactly going to be low setted students are they?

EDITED_BY: *Aime* (1111249799)


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Stainless Munchkin


Stainless Munchkin

Master of the Munchkins


Total posts: 246
Posted:sum peeps do subjects they r not gd at 4 no gd reason, y do u think there are bottom sets in A-level, cos sum peeps who rnt gd do them

Are you that clever that you smile forever? biggrin

What's from the Earth is of the greatest worth

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:After reading that last post 4 times

I rest my case


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Stainless Munchkin


Stainless Munchkin

Master of the Munchkins


Total posts: 246
Posted:what? i dont understand frown are you saying my english isnt very good, because if you like i can speak normally rather than in text speak. what is your case anyway?

Are you that clever that you smile forever? biggrin

What's from the Earth is of the greatest worth

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Fine_Rabid_Dog


Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...

Total posts: 10530
Posted:I think stout is saying u r 2 lazy to type properly shrug I dunno tho.



Chris, one of ur posts (bout u being in a higher set) seemed a bit pretentious, and ive never heard of sum1 doing A levels they are no good at 4 no reason.

There is a reason for everything.. it might just be that a person enjoys them, or they arent good at anything, but they have to do sumthin... shrug

EDITED_BY: Fine_Rabid_Dog (1111262770)


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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Stainless Munchkin


Stainless Munchkin

Master of the Munchkins


Total posts: 246
Posted:ye but there will always be people who are doing subjects they are bad at (inside welli-koo)
its just easier to type less, not lazy, but less time is taken so it is more efficient


Are you that clever that you smile forever? biggrin

What's from the Earth is of the greatest worth

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Fine_Rabid_Dog


Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...

Total posts: 10530
Posted:Written by: Stainless Munchkin

ye but there will always be people who are doing subjects they are bad at (inside welli-koo)



yeah, but like i said, not everyone is good at everything. Koo isnt good at anyything. He just chose subjects he enjoyed, and thought he was best at...


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:i think a lot of people choose subjects their good at for A levels but often realize part way through the course they're not that good at them or that the course isn't what they expected.

i know people who do biology and hate it purely because its the wrong bits of biology

similarly in physics i find there are often bits i cant stand so i don't try as hard


back

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MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004

MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia

Total posts: 3415
Posted:I think there is a bit in one of the FAQ's about not talking in 'txt-talk', or 'l33t sp33k' or any of those other 'i want to fit as many words into as few characters as possible' or 'like english, but just off english enough to anny everyone'. And i'm pretty sure it says 'dont do it'.

"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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Stainless Munchkin


Stainless Munchkin

Master of the Munchkins


Total posts: 246
Posted:oh, i didnt know that, very sorry

Are you that clever that you smile forever? biggrin

What's from the Earth is of the greatest worth

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Mountain Elf
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newbie
Location: London (yuk...must get back to...

Total posts: 9
Posted:I personally think a lot of the issues you are talking about with the particular groups of teenagers you teach spring from the subjects they are doing. I did A levels in biology chemistry physics and maths and the simple fact is that science does not teach you to think. Everything in science is very logical, with right or wrong answers and very little opportunity to think 'outside the box', and students on scientific programmes aren't generally encouraged to recognise the fact that actually we know very little about why we're here and what the f@#K is going on. I know I personally was a very typical science student until i started uni and got a different perspective on l;ife...everything had to have an answer when in fact hardly anything has a difinitive answer when you''re talking about existance and the reason for being and so on... I even at one point attempted to define time...yeah laugh if you will, I did when I got stuck in a train of thought that was going round and round in circles...I had been so confident that having done physics I knew what time was, I hadn't actually thought about it. Then realised that we have NO IDEA!!!!
OK, sorry, getting a little off track here, but the point I'm trying to make is that very few teenagers have the opportunity, or the desire, to think about what we don't know...they are far happier to think about what we do know because that way they think they will always have the right answer. Of course I am talking about science students here... everyone else has a far better chance!
On another point, the way society is today gives teenagers the impression that they have to be 'normal' (WHAT IS NORMAL???!!! - there's no such thing, as you free thinking people are aware), and to speak out for/against something is to be individual, a thing many teenagers are scared of. They need to be made aware that uniqueness and individuality are 'normal', instead of being sheep to the commercial b.s. society we live in.

On a lighter note...YAY! The sun's out again...more summer spinning is calling.... weavesmiley

Peace and love.


Outside pressure to change only strengthens inner values...

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Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
Posted:I have not found today's teenagers to be as lazy and apathetic as the crop who graduated high school in, say, 1977. In fact my interactions with them, limited as they have been, have been uniformly positive. I've been surprised by their thoughtfulness.

Also, I think they live in a much tougher world then the 1977 bunch did. They cope remarkably well, considering.

This $0.02 brought to you by Xopher, Class of '77


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

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Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
Posted:Oh, and to preach just a little bit: it's wrong to tell young people they can't change anything, or do any good. This is an attack on the spirit, which is worse than an attack on the body.

Teenagers, when someone tells you "there's nothing anyone can do about it," unless they're talking about a law of physics or something (hey, gravity sucks but...), what they're really saying is "I have been defeated by this thing, and if you succeed I will have to admit that my effort, or lack of same, was to blame. Therefore I want to defeat you before you even start."

That said, older people will often have a more complete grasp of a problem than you have; listen to their facts.

Young people have more energy than experience. Therefore they undervalue experience and overvalue energy (which includes things like "a fresh perspective" and "creative new ideas" as well as "boundless enthusiasm").

Older people have more experience than energy. Therefore they undervalue energy (see above) and overvalue experience. Even I am sometimes subject to this tendency; on the other hand sometimes I know exactly what a young person is going to say, and they're astonished by this.

The path of wisdom: let energy be guided (but never blocked) by experience. Let experience be charged (but never bypassed) by energy.

[/preaching]

(I know, I'm a BOF. But I don't dismiss your opinions, and occasionally mine may be of some use to you.)


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

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pineapple pete
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

pineapple pete

water based
Location: melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 5125
Posted:i duno.

id give u an answer by i cant be stuffed


ubblol

cheers, pete biggrin


"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"

*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*

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Pigeon_Wigeon
BRONZE Member since Dec 2004

Pigeon_Wigeon

Say what?
Location: Surrey/Portsmouth, United King...

Total posts: 4760
Posted:Hmm... I'm currently working hard on my A-levels (English, Media and Theatre) and have always been in high sets for things. However I also failed psychology at AS level.Now.. I'm not lazy and I did the work however the teaching style just wasnt right for me. We got a massive folder with 7 hours of work a week and one one hour session every wednesday via webcam to a tutor in sussex. Now 7 hours of homework + the homework from all the other subjects isn't fun. We got frees from the 3 spare lessons we had where Psychology would of been if it hads to same amount of lessons as regular lessons but noone really did their homework in these frees. Not because they were lazy but because its hard to motivate yourself when your surrounded by friends in the common room... and you have socialising vs 7 hours of psychology...
I work hard.. I play hard.. I'm not lazy yet I still failed simply because the teaching style didnt suit me.. nor did the exam style of learn 30 casestudies and use the one correct one for each question...you didnt use the correct study you got like.. 3 marks.. so yeah.. lil rant over... its relevance could be questioned.. but I know what I mean.. hee hee


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Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
Posted:Written by: pineapple pete

i duno.

id give u an answer by i cant be stuffed


ubblol

cheers, pete biggrin



I not only don't know what this means, I can't even tell if it was directed to me or not. Can you translate into BOFish for me? Poor non-1334nik that I am?


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear,...

Total posts: 4693
Posted:haha, today i saw a t-shirt which has human evolution, and the next step for us was hunched over a computer monitor, its the screens!

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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quiet


quiet

analytic
Location: bristol

Total posts: 503
Posted:hormones

ture na sig

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