Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:in australia over the past few years a new phrase has been frequently used.

'unaustralian'

its been used by the government to describe lefty activists, by activists to describe the governments immigration policy, used to insult 'bad sportsmen,' mcdonalds, con-artists, pacifists, rednecks, etc amoung millions of other interchangable uses. its seems that everyone is bitching about how anyone who disagrees with them is 'unaustralian' irrespective of citizenship/country of origin etc.

the ironic bit is that we can even define what precisely being australian is in the first place so we spend are time arguing about was it isnt.

ive heard 'unamerican' used a few times. is anyone else subjected to this constant un-country-ness?


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:thats just not cricket you know.

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire
Member Since: 27th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3136
Posted:Written by:
con-artists





I thought being an extrodited convict was very australian? tongue


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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:The use of that sort of language is part of the overall dumbing down of the media. Reporters can't think of a more appropriate word to use (or are bored with those that exist), and most viewers don't have a particularly extensive vocabulary these days anyway - so you'll find many made-up words doing the rounds at the minute. Words that don't mean very much but are a nod in the right direction.

UnAustralian/American must be an action that is in contradiction to the perception of values and social norms of that country.

But who is to say what are the values and social norms of any country? And who is to say what actions are contradictory to that?

Perceived values and norms are based on stereotypes and optimism. Hardly conducive to a multi-cultural society (jeez, and Australia and America like to congratulate themselves on their multi-cultural background).

I believe to describe something as 'un-country' is to demonstrate arrogance, which in turn covers up the fear of the unknown or misunderstood.


Getting to the other side smile

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Prometheus
Prometheus

Diamond In The Rough
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Member Since: 30th Jun 2002
Total posts: 459
Posted:Sounda like good ol' Nationalism...



I was told I was 'un-American' because I didn't vote for Bush...or because I like freedom of speech...or because I was against invading sovereign nations...or I had an abortion....I dunno, it was one of those,

Point is, people (i.e. fanatics) will sometimes use patriotism as a weapon, trying to make you feel guilty for not agreeing with the powers that be. They commit dishonest, hypocritical, fiendish things, then wrap themselves in the flag and say you're horrible for not supporting them. In 'the land of the free,' not agreeing with the gov't is grounds for high treason. wink

EDITED_BY: Prometheus (1101910125)


Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.

Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.

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Spanner
Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...
Member Since: 27th Feb 2003
Total posts: 2790
Posted:I wonder what Aborigines think about this...

"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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MiG
MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG
Member Since: 16th Apr 2004
Total posts: 3415
Posted:treason used to be not agreeing with the government, back in the days where one got hung, drawn, and quartered, i think.

And yeah, there is the stereotypical 'aussie way' to consider. however, that means that any time one is not sitting out the back watching kangaroos hop about the place with a beer in one hand, and it would have to be XXXX, cos thats the only beer australia makes, ciggie in the other, swatting at flies that get past the stupid corked hat with a thong (the footwear, sickos), while wearing the other one is not being australian.

god i hate that stereotype.


"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire
Member Since: 27th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3136
Posted:treason also includes lying to the queen, which i did when i was a school kid and met her thankx

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MiG
MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG
Member Since: 16th Apr 2004
Total posts: 3415
Posted:did you say 'nice to meet you?'
ubblol


"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:It's saying "not one of us". Humans will always think in terms of us vs them and using this fear of 'them' is an easy way of getting people to do what you want or putting people down. It's acceptable and disgusied bigotry.

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vanize
vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:"unamerican" is a word used by people to immediately convey the fact that they have no understanding of what America is and can only be bothered to think of their own selfish needs, which these "unamerican" people are not attending to (or perhaps even directly working against).



I suspect "unaustralian" has a similar meaning.


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire
Member Since: 27th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3136
Posted:she was openning a sports centre/gym and was working her way down the line of people with her husband (he has a name which i forget). To us she said "isn't it wonderful, will you be using it often?". I said "yes, every morning"

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Domino
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
Member Since: 26th May 2004
Total posts: 757
Posted:*Bump*

I just saw this video and thought of this thread.


Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.

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Wonder Monkey
Wonder Monkey

Certainly confused
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
Member Since: 11th Jan 2005
Total posts: 121
Posted:Written by: Prometheus

Sounda like good ol' Nationalism...

In 'the land of the free,' not agreeing with the gov't is grounds for high treason. wink



Its amazing how things never change.

Back in teh 18th/early 19th century a guy called alexis de tocqueville commented that there was no country as unfree as America - precisely becasue of alternatives to the social norm being viewed as 'Unamerican' - therefore stifling any real democratic debate that holds any merit.

I think we call people like that 'Little Englanders'? confused
here in the UK.


My Mummy Says Im Special

bounce ubbloco bounce

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Americans, being the uber-xenophobic and ultra-nationalistic lot we are (Screw "patriotism." That's amateur stuff.) tend to love to throw around our "American" ideals. You know, libertie, egualitie, fraternitie (or however you spell it in French), all that jazz. After all, we're the oldest democracy on earth (save England, which never precisely "became" a democracy as much as "morphed" into one...the English are such an un-revolutionary sort). And our Constitution is pretty much taught to us as gospel...with all the varying interpretations of (although it sounds pretty damned straightforward to me).

So yeah, the word "Unamerican" gets hurled a lot.

shrug


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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=Flashpoint=
=Flashpoint=

Pasta of Muppets
Location: in the interwebs...
Member Since: 1st Sep 2004
Total posts: 2719
Posted:A question for the Americans...

Do you really say the pledge of allegiance every morning in school? How many of you believe it? Does it leave a sour taste in your mouth when you say "one Nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"?

Im not in any way poking fun at your nationality or anything, god knows we get enough of that here...(UK)


ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!
ubbrollsmileubbrollsmileubbrollsmileubbrollsmile

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Wonder Monkey
Wonder Monkey

Certainly confused
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
Member Since: 11th Jan 2005
Total posts: 121
Posted:Written by: ...Lightning...

After all, we're the oldest democracy on earth (save England, which never precisely "became" a democracy as much as "morphed" into one...the English are such an un-revolutionary sort).
:



easy Tiger smile - I think you'll find democracy was around in ancient Greece...its where the Founding fathers got their inspiration.

Ands as for revolution - we've had civil wars and insurrection - far more than the US, because, being frank, we have centuries more history and heritage behind our nation as its own entity (obviosuly the states has a wealth of heritage in its melting pot, but that would have been brought to, rather than originate from, the states... which unconsciously adopts ethnic amnesia (forgetting/leaving ones roots behind) precisely becasue those roots are 'unamerican' and prevent you from being a 'true' American unless you relegate them.

Granted, the gap between our civil war (200 years prior to Americas) and universal suffrage may have been long - but it came sooner than the states, who denied the ethnic vote until the latter half of the last century.

So perhaps democracy is something that is morphed into by all, given time, which makes the notion of 'bringing it to the world' laughable. IMO.

Im interested to know whats revolutionary about the states and its people? smile


My Mummy Says Im Special

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Prometheus
Prometheus

Diamond In The Rough
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Member Since: 30th Jun 2002
Total posts: 459
Posted:Keep in mind that the United States is only 230 years old, we're in our infancy as countries go. And it shows.

Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.

Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.

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vanize
vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:I have to argue with that - germany and a lot of other places are much younger as coutries per se - really the united states in about middle aged in that regard. most germans still really think of themselves way more as berliners or hamburgers (hehehe) than germans, and germany was more a collection of kingdoms and city states more than anything else till very recently.



this is suprisingly true all around the globe really.



and our govermenment is among the oldest still in existance.



where our infancy comes in is our culteral identity.


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:Written by: =Flashpoint=


A question for the Americans...



Do you really say the pledge of allegiance every morning in school? How many of you believe it? Does it leave a sour taste in your mouth when you say "one Nation under God,

indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"?



Im not in any way poking fun at your nationality or anything, god knows we get enough of that here...(UK)





had to when I was a kid.



note that the word "god" did not appear in this pledge till the (mid?) late 1950's, when it was inserted during the McCarthist period as a reaction the the USA being in a cold war with a "godless" (and therefor quite naturally evil) soviet union.



even in the 1970's starting from the age of 6, I refused to say "god" during the pledge of allegence. even at that age, I could see the conflict between that and the constitution, and knew the constitution was the more important.


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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MiG
MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG
Member Since: 16th Apr 2004
Total posts: 3415
Posted:australia is younger. and we rock more. and have more flies smile

"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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spritie
spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX
Member Since: 9th Sep 2001
Total posts: 2014
Posted:I was forced to say it for a while as well, but that disappeared in junior high (grade 7-9) and high school.

There was actually a recent court case about it here in the states. A father went to court because he didn't want his daughter to be forced to have to say "One nation, under God". He was trying to invoke the whole separation of church and state argument. Sadly, the case never went anywhere because the father didn't have full custody of the daughter, and the daughter didn't really care whether she said it or not. Her mother didn't feel as strongly as the father, so never liked the court case in the first place.


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Prometheus
Prometheus

Diamond In The Rough
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Member Since: 30th Jun 2002
Total posts: 459
Posted:There are a lot of disturbing examples of church & state intermingling...this just isn't one of 'em

Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.

Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:My description of the British as "unrevolutionary" was very tongue-in-cheek. Sorry, I should have used more smilies. wink

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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=Flashpoint=
=Flashpoint=

Pasta of Muppets
Location: in the interwebs...
Member Since: 1st Sep 2004
Total posts: 2719
Posted:it's cool Mike, I love my country, but the COUNTRY not the rulers, or the current people, its its history and geography and science and minds...

ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!
ubbrollsmileubbrollsmileubbrollsmileubbrollsmile

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