Forums > Social Discussion > un-country-ish
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ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
in australia over the past few years a new phrase has been frequently used.
'unaustralian'
its been used by the government to describe lefty activists, by activists to describe the governments immigration policy, used to insult 'bad sportsmen,' mcdonalds, con-artists, pacifists, rednecks, etc amoung millions of other interchangable uses. its seems that everyone is bitching about how anyone who disagrees with them is 'unaustralian' irrespective of citizenship/country of origin etc.
the ironic bit is that we can even define what precisely being australian is in the first place so we spend are time arguing about was it isnt.
ive heard 'unamerican' used a few times. is anyone else subjected to this constant un-country-ness?
in australia over the past few years a new phrase has been frequently used.
'unaustralian'
its been used by the government to describe lefty activists, by activists to describe the governments immigration policy, used to insult 'bad sportsmen,' mcdonalds, con-artists, pacifists, rednecks, etc amoung millions of other interchangable uses. its seems that everyone is bitching about how anyone who disagrees with them is 'unaustralian' irrespective of citizenship/country of origin etc.
the ironic bit is that we can even define what precisely being australian is in the first place so we spend are time arguing about was it isnt.
ive heard 'unamerican' used a few times. is anyone else subjected to this constant un-country-ness?
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
thats just not cricket you know.
thats just not cricket you know.
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
I thought being an extrodited convict was very australian?
Written by:
con-artists
I thought being an extrodited convict was very australian?
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
The use of that sort of language is part of the overall dumbing down of the media. Reporters can't think of a more appropriate word to use (or are bored with those that exist), and most viewers don't have a particularly extensive vocabulary these days anyway - so you'll find many made-up words doing the rounds at the minute. Words that don't mean very much but are a nod in the right direction.
UnAustralian/American must be an action that is in contradiction to the perception of values and social norms of that country.
But who is to say what are the values and social norms of any country? And who is to say what actions are contradictory to that?
Perceived values and norms are based on stereotypes and optimism. Hardly conducive to a multi-cultural society (jeez, and Australia and America like to congratulate themselves on their multi-cultural background).
I believe to describe something as 'un-country' is to demonstrate arrogance, which in turn covers up the fear of the unknown or misunderstood.
The use of that sort of language is part of the overall dumbing down of the media. Reporters can't think of a more appropriate word to use (or are bored with those that exist), and most viewers don't have a particularly extensive vocabulary these days anyway - so you'll find many made-up words doing the rounds at the minute. Words that don't mean very much but are a nod in the right direction.
UnAustralian/American must be an action that is in contradiction to the perception of values and social norms of that country.
But who is to say what are the values and social norms of any country? And who is to say what actions are contradictory to that?
Perceived values and norms are based on stereotypes and optimism. Hardly conducive to a multi-cultural society (jeez, and Australia and America like to congratulate themselves on their multi-cultural background).
I believe to describe something as 'un-country' is to demonstrate arrogance, which in turn covers up the fear of the unknown or misunderstood.
Getting to the other side 
Diamond In The Rough
459 posts
Location: Richmond, Virginia
459 posts
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posted:
Sounda like good ol' Nationalism...
I was told I was 'un-American' because I didn't vote for Bush...or because I like freedom of speech...or because I was against invading sovereign nations...or I had an abortion....I dunno, it was one of those,
Point is, people (i.e. fanatics) will sometimes use patriotism as a weapon, trying to make you feel guilty for not agreeing with the powers that be. They commit dishonest, hypocritical, fiendish things, then wrap themselves in the flag and say you're horrible for not supporting them. In 'the land of the free,' not agreeing with the gov't is grounds for high treason.
EDITED_BY: Prometheus (1101910125)
Sounda like good ol' Nationalism...
I was told I was 'un-American' because I didn't vote for Bush...or because I like freedom of speech...or because I was against invading sovereign nations...or I had an abortion....I dunno, it was one of those,
Point is, people (i.e. fanatics) will sometimes use patriotism as a weapon, trying to make you feel guilty for not agreeing with the powers that be. They commit dishonest, hypocritical, fiendish things, then wrap themselves in the flag and say you're horrible for not supporting them. In 'the land of the free,' not agreeing with the gov't is grounds for high treason.
EDITED_BY: Prometheus (1101910125)
Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.
Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.
GOLD Member
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Posted:
treason used to be not agreeing with the government, back in the days where one got hung, drawn, and quartered, i think.
And yeah, there is the stereotypical 'aussie way' to consider. however, that means that any time one is not sitting out the back watching kangaroos hop about the place with a beer in one hand, and it would have to be XXXX, cos thats the only beer australia makes, ciggie in the other, swatting at flies that get past the stupid corked hat with a thong (the footwear, sickos), while wearing the other one is not being australian.
god i hate that stereotype.
treason used to be not agreeing with the government, back in the days where one got hung, drawn, and quartered, i think.
And yeah, there is the stereotypical 'aussie way' to consider. however, that means that any time one is not sitting out the back watching kangaroos hop about the place with a beer in one hand, and it would have to be XXXX, cos thats the only beer australia makes, ciggie in the other, swatting at flies that get past the stupid corked hat with a thong (the footwear, sickos), while wearing the other one is not being australian.
god i hate that stereotype.
"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA
"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
treason also includes lying to the queen, which i did when i was a school kid and met her
treason also includes lying to the queen, which i did when i was a school kid and met her
GOLD Member
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Posted:
did you say 'nice to meet you?'
did you say 'nice to meet you?'
"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA
"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
It's saying "not one of us". Humans will always think in terms of us vs them and using this fear of 'them' is an easy way of getting people to do what you want or putting people down. It's acceptable and disgusied bigotry.
It's saying "not one of us". Humans will always think in terms of us vs them and using this fear of 'them' is an easy way of getting people to do what you want or putting people down. It's acceptable and disgusied bigotry.
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posted:
"unamerican" is a word used by people to immediately convey the fact that they have no understanding of what America is and can only be bothered to think of their own selfish needs, which these "unamerican" people are not attending to (or perhaps even directly working against).
I suspect "unaustralian" has a similar meaning.
"unamerican" is a word used by people to immediately convey the fact that they have no understanding of what America is and can only be bothered to think of their own selfish needs, which these "unamerican" people are not attending to (or perhaps even directly working against).
I suspect "unaustralian" has a similar meaning.
-v-
Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
she was openning a sports centre/gym and was working her way down the line of people with her husband (he has a name which i forget). To us she said "isn't it wonderful, will you be using it often?". I said "yes, every morning"
she was openning a sports centre/gym and was working her way down the line of people with her husband (he has a name which i forget). To us she said "isn't it wonderful, will you be using it often?". I said "yes, every morning"
SILVER Member
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
Posted:
*Bump*
I just saw this video and thought of this thread.
*Bump*
I just saw this video and thought of this thread.
Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.
BRONZE Member
Certainly confused
121 posts
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, United Kingdom
Certainly confused
121 posts
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, United Kingdom
Posted:
Its amazing how things never change.
Back in teh 18th/early 19th century a guy called alexis de tocqueville commented that there was no country as unfree as America - precisely becasue of alternatives to the social norm being viewed as 'Unamerican' - therefore stifling any real democratic debate that holds any merit.
I think we call people like that 'Little Englanders'?
here in the UK.
Written by: Prometheus
Sounda like good ol' Nationalism...
In 'the land of the free,' not agreeing with the gov't is grounds for high treason.
Its amazing how things never change.
Back in teh 18th/early 19th century a guy called alexis de tocqueville commented that there was no country as unfree as America - precisely becasue of alternatives to the social norm being viewed as 'Unamerican' - therefore stifling any real democratic debate that holds any merit.
I think we call people like that 'Little Englanders'?
here in the UK.
My Mummy Says Im Special
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Americans, being the uber-xenophobic and ultra-nationalistic lot we are (Screw "patriotism." That's amateur stuff.) tend to love to throw around our "American" ideals. You know, libertie, egualitie, fraternitie (or however you spell it in French), all that jazz. After all, we're the oldest democracy on earth (save England, which never precisely "became" a democracy as much as "morphed" into one...the English are such an un-revolutionary sort). And our Constitution is pretty much taught to us as gospel...with all the varying interpretations of (although it sounds pretty damned straightforward to me).
So yeah, the word "Unamerican" gets hurled a lot.
Americans, being the uber-xenophobic and ultra-nationalistic lot we are (Screw "patriotism." That's amateur stuff.) tend to love to throw around our "American" ideals. You know, libertie, egualitie, fraternitie (or however you spell it in French), all that jazz. After all, we're the oldest democracy on earth (save England, which never precisely "became" a democracy as much as "morphed" into one...the English are such an un-revolutionary sort). And our Constitution is pretty much taught to us as gospel...with all the varying interpretations of (although it sounds pretty damned straightforward to me).
So yeah, the word "Unamerican" gets hurled a lot.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
SILVER Member
Pasta of Muppets
2,722 posts
Location: in the interwebs..., United Kingdom
Pasta of Muppets
2,722 posts
Location: in the interwebs..., United Kingdom
Posted:
A question for the Americans...
Do you really say the pledge of allegiance every morning in school? How many of you believe it? Does it leave a sour taste in your mouth when you say "one Nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"?
Im not in any way poking fun at your nationality or anything, god knows we get enough of that here...(UK)
A question for the Americans...
Do you really say the pledge of allegiance every morning in school? How many of you believe it? Does it leave a sour taste in your mouth when you say "one Nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"?
Im not in any way poking fun at your nationality or anything, god knows we get enough of that here...(UK)
ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!
BRONZE Member
Certainly confused
121 posts
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, United Kingdom
Certainly confused
121 posts
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, United Kingdom
Posted:
easy Tiger
- I think you'll find democracy was around in ancient Greece...its where the Founding fathers got their inspiration.
Ands as for revolution - we've had civil wars and insurrection - far more than the US, because, being frank, we have centuries more history and heritage behind our nation as its own entity (obviosuly the states has a wealth of heritage in its melting pot, but that would have been brought to, rather than originate from, the states... which unconsciously adopts ethnic amnesia (forgetting/leaving ones roots behind) precisely becasue those roots are 'unamerican' and prevent you from being a 'true' American unless you relegate them.
Granted, the gap between our civil war (200 years prior to Americas) and universal suffrage may have been long - but it came sooner than the states, who denied the ethnic vote until the latter half of the last century.
So perhaps democracy is something that is morphed into by all, given time, which makes the notion of 'bringing it to the world' laughable. IMO.
Im interested to know whats revolutionary about the states and its people?
Written by: ...Lightning...
After all, we're the oldest democracy on earth (save England, which never precisely "became" a democracy as much as "morphed" into one...the English are such an un-revolutionary sort).
:
easy Tiger
- I think you'll find democracy was around in ancient Greece...its where the Founding fathers got their inspiration.Ands as for revolution - we've had civil wars and insurrection - far more than the US, because, being frank, we have centuries more history and heritage behind our nation as its own entity (obviosuly the states has a wealth of heritage in its melting pot, but that would have been brought to, rather than originate from, the states... which unconsciously adopts ethnic amnesia (forgetting/leaving ones roots behind) precisely becasue those roots are 'unamerican' and prevent you from being a 'true' American unless you relegate them.
Granted, the gap between our civil war (200 years prior to Americas) and universal suffrage may have been long - but it came sooner than the states, who denied the ethnic vote until the latter half of the last century.
So perhaps democracy is something that is morphed into by all, given time, which makes the notion of 'bringing it to the world' laughable. IMO.
Im interested to know whats revolutionary about the states and its people?
My Mummy Says Im Special
Diamond In The Rough
459 posts
Location: Richmond, Virginia
459 posts
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posted:
Keep in mind that the United States is only 230 years old, we're in our infancy as countries go. And it shows.
Keep in mind that the United States is only 230 years old, we're in our infancy as countries go. And it shows.
Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.
Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posted:
I have to argue with that - germany and a lot of other places are much younger as coutries per se - really the united states in about middle aged in that regard. most germans still really think of themselves way more as berliners or hamburgers (hehehe) than germans, and germany was more a collection of kingdoms and city states more than anything else till very recently.
this is suprisingly true all around the globe really.
and our govermenment is among the oldest still in existance.
where our infancy comes in is our culteral identity.
I have to argue with that - germany and a lot of other places are much younger as coutries per se - really the united states in about middle aged in that regard. most germans still really think of themselves way more as berliners or hamburgers (hehehe) than germans, and germany was more a collection of kingdoms and city states more than anything else till very recently.
this is suprisingly true all around the globe really.
and our govermenment is among the oldest still in existance.
where our infancy comes in is our culteral identity.
-v-
Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posted:
had to when I was a kid.
note that the word "god" did not appear in this pledge till the (mid?) late 1950's, when it was inserted during the McCarthist period as a reaction the the USA being in a cold war with a "godless" (and therefor quite naturally evil) soviet union.
even in the 1970's starting from the age of 6, I refused to say "god" during the pledge of allegence. even at that age, I could see the conflict between that and the constitution, and knew the constitution was the more important.
Written by: =Flashpoint=
A question for the Americans...
Do you really say the pledge of allegiance every morning in school? How many of you believe it? Does it leave a sour taste in your mouth when you say "one Nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"?
Im not in any way poking fun at your nationality or anything, god knows we get enough of that here...(UK)
had to when I was a kid.
note that the word "god" did not appear in this pledge till the (mid?) late 1950's, when it was inserted during the McCarthist period as a reaction the the USA being in a cold war with a "godless" (and therefor quite naturally evil) soviet union.
even in the 1970's starting from the age of 6, I refused to say "god" during the pledge of allegence. even at that age, I could see the conflict between that and the constitution, and knew the constitution was the more important.
-v-
Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!
GOLD Member
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Posted:
australia is younger. and we rock more. and have more flies
australia is younger. and we rock more. and have more flies
"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA
"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Posted:
I was forced to say it for a while as well, but that disappeared in junior high (grade 7-9) and high school.
There was actually a recent court case about it here in the states. A father went to court because he didn't want his daughter to be forced to have to say "One nation, under God". He was trying to invoke the whole separation of church and state argument. Sadly, the case never went anywhere because the father didn't have full custody of the daughter, and the daughter didn't really care whether she said it or not. Her mother didn't feel as strongly as the father, so never liked the court case in the first place.
I was forced to say it for a while as well, but that disappeared in junior high (grade 7-9) and high school.
There was actually a recent court case about it here in the states. A father went to court because he didn't want his daughter to be forced to have to say "One nation, under God". He was trying to invoke the whole separation of church and state argument. Sadly, the case never went anywhere because the father didn't have full custody of the daughter, and the daughter didn't really care whether she said it or not. Her mother didn't feel as strongly as the father, so never liked the court case in the first place.
Diamond In The Rough
459 posts
Location: Richmond, Virginia
459 posts
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posted:
There are a lot of disturbing examples of church & state intermingling...this just isn't one of 'em
There are a lot of disturbing examples of church & state intermingling...this just isn't one of 'em
Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.
Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
My description of the British as "unrevolutionary" was very tongue-in-cheek. Sorry, I should have used more smilies.
My description of the British as "unrevolutionary" was very tongue-in-cheek. Sorry, I should have used more smilies.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
SILVER Member
Pasta of Muppets
2,722 posts
Location: in the interwebs..., United Kingdom
Pasta of Muppets
2,722 posts
Location: in the interwebs..., United Kingdom
Posted:
it's cool Mike, I love my country, but the COUNTRY not the rulers, or the current people, its its history and geography and science and minds...
it's cool Mike, I love my country, but the COUNTRY not the rulers, or the current people, its its history and geography and science and minds...
ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!
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