Forums > Social Chat > Am I the only one? (Religious people beware!)

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MikeIcon
MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:EDIT = Been getting some complaints bout this so again, I warn all people who are very religious that the following thread may offend you. Please be prepared. I have also edited some text from this first post so that it may be a *little* less offensive to some.



Am I the only one who thinks all religion is junk? Every where I go there are people talking about their beliefs. Not only that, but they use their beliefs to try and govern other peoples lives. Why? Why is it so important to have meaning in life? Why do people need to believe that when they die, theyll go to heaven? Isnt life good enough without some crazy ass story about where they came from and where theyre going? Why cant everyone just live with the fact that were just here and enjoy it while it lasts?



The reason I ask these questions is because it seems that more bad comes from religion than good. Take a look around. Notice how many people have died due to their beliefs. Look at all the wars that have come, gone, and are still going on in the name of god. Look at how much our lives are restricted by things that are not moral. Even our technology is suffering. Why cant I clone myself if I wanted to? Why cant we use stem cells to help people? Why cant a rape victim get an abortion? And why cant an 80 year old man dying from some awful disease put himself out of his misery?



There is so much physical evidence that disproves religion, yet, people hang on and whole heartedly believe these fantastical stories about god(s) and the afterlife. It really gets to me because regardless of the fact that I dont believe in it, Im forced to live my life as if I do.

EDITED_BY: ICoN (1075491940)


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:Quote:
x=1; times both sides by x; x^2=x; then take one from both sides; x^2-1=x-1; factorise (x-1)(x+1)=(x-1); cancel x-1 from both sides; x+1=1; now we originally had x=1 so

2=1





ben ja men goes on to prove that black = white and gets killed at the next zebra crossing ubbtickled


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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wan hwo ren
wan hwo ren

member
Location: I'm not sure
Member Since: 27th Mar 2002
Total posts: 86
Posted:I'm the same as most people in that I don't like it when somebody tries to push their views on me, no matter what those views are. Of course I don't blame religion for that.

I do have some problems with Christianity though. Ray has given his opinion that all the people who have never heard of Jesus are going to hell. This is the kind of statement that gives Christianity a bad name. So I want to ask a question to the other Christians on here:

Are people from non western / Christian cultures going to hell?
Is the Dali Lama going to hell?
Am I, as a non Christian, going to hell?



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Looper
Looper

grasshopper in training

Member Since: 4th Feb 2004
Total posts: 124
Posted:Quote
"Each soul is potentially divine. The goal is to manifest this Divinity within, by controlling nature, external and internal. Do this either by work, or worship or phychic control, or philosophy - by one, or all of these - and be free. (*Now to the point wave) This is the whole of religion. Doctrines, or Dogmas, or rituals, or books, or temples, or forms, are but secondary details"
rolleyes Why do we fight when we really agree?


There is a world made of air, one of earth and one of water.
And there is one made of fire, and all of them fight for supremacy. They are fighting now, in my head.

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FireSpirit
FireSpirit

Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
Location: South Lake Tahoe
Member Since: 29th Mar 2001
Total posts: 743
Posted:Hello ICoN,



Well I feel "Heven is when I am in it, and Hell is when Im not!" You know I live in SLC Utah the Birth Place of the Mormon Religion. These folks are very smart in some ways but VERY Silly in others. THERE IS NO DIFFRENCE BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE HERE IN UTAH!!!!!!!! And the beer sucks because of it!!



Religion is for people who fear Hell, Spirituallity is for people who have been there!!



Religion sets up rules and boxes. Some people need these to carry on "normal" life. I say that "Rules are for Fools... But thank God for Rules!" I try to live outside the Box, living with out social rules, but with my own Morrals. I know what is Good and what is not. Its not a hard one to figure out. I was brought up meditating with my mother and sister. One doesn't have to go some where to worship, you can do it in your own home. So I was taught that the "Great Spirit" is in all things, and that I am God... I create my own world around me. (although there is a Great Spirit over all)



But to each his own! If someone needs the comfort of being in Boxes, not expiriancing anything outside. I feel Bad, however I am not the one to try to tell them what they are missing.



~Fire Spirit


FIRE IS ALIVE!
IT LIVES AND BREATHS!
IT CONSUMES, AND DISTROYS!
BUT WE CONTROL IT,
AND DANCE WITH FIRE!!

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Azrelle
Azrelle

member
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Member Since: 24th Jan 2004
Total posts: 34
Posted:Every righteous person is pleasing to God according to the Christian Scriptures:

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I percieve that God is no respecter of persons (God does not favor anyone.), but in every nation he that feared Him, and worked righteousness, is accepted with Him." (Acts10:34-35)

Therefore it follows that all those who acknowledge God and live a life that is good will attain heaven in the afterlife according to scripture. Those who have not heard or are incapable of understanding Gospel will also be admitted.

This is only in the christian version of things mind...

In Islam, which deals with the same God, same prophets two following quotes also back up the same concept that acknowledgement of God and living a good life is what is required: (it is worth noting that the word "islam" means "submission to God"

Quran 3:85 "If anyone goes in search of a religion other than self-surrender to God, it will never be accepted by Him, and in the life to come, he/she will be among the lost."

Similarly Judaism says the same, though i cannot nail down an actual quote to back this up.

Essentially, and many will disagree with me which is ok, so long as your intention is to live a good life and you try as best as it is in you to try to do good then you will get into heaven. When you get it wrong, ask for forgiveness and you will get it.

To those though ask if people who dont believe in God will get to heaven.... umm... follow that one through... if you dont believe in God then you dont believe in heaven so it wont matter one way or the other if you get there or not, will it?

This is just my take on what i have read. You all have the right to your own opinions too as i'm sure same sources can be quoted in reverse argument


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i8beefy2
i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA
Member Since: 24th Mar 2003
Total posts: 674
Posted:Religion is for people that fear Hell, but Spirituality is for people who have been there...

Yeah I like that. A lot. In fact I'm going to steal that quote from you, I have a lot of friends who this would help in many ways...

Those who have spirituality don't need a box of guidelines to lead their lives. I feel as you do to an extent Icon, Religion is a bunch of crap. However for different reasons. I feel that once you learn to live your life religion is a useless shell, as the spirit therein is already living within you. I'm a pragmatist, and religion doesn't seem to have any practical purpose for me anymore, though I'm sure it has plenty of use for other people still. So while religion may not be useful to me, it none the less serves a very important purpose for others that are trying to find their spirit.

Every religion has a jewel of truth, its just finding it that is so difficult because of all of the ideas and such floating around being attributed to it. Enjoy life and be excellent to others. There's too much pain in the world as it is to go around judging others.

Speeking of judging... that is the fundamental objection I have to all Judaic religions. I will not serve or be judged. I would take an eternity alone over one in service to some egotistical diety. My man Lucifer had the right attitude in that respect, Non Servium (I will not serve), though I think most of the other crap attributed to the fallen angels is still to be avoided...

In my own opinion of course.


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certifiedloon
newbie
Location: currently New Zealand
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2004
Total posts: 29
Posted:ICoN, I really really really wholeheartedly agree, I really find it impossible to believe in any of that kinda stuff and don't like people trying to tell me about it against my will. Thank you for letting me know there's other people out there with the same opinions.

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certifiedloon
newbie
Location: currently New Zealand
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2004
Total posts: 29
Posted:So glad someone found the flaw in that proof - I got an A at A level maths and couldn't! Doh!

Don't really know how we got from religion to mathematics but hey...

PS sorry to follow myself!! spank


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frostypaw
Great balls of fire
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent
Member Since: 28th Jul 2003
Total posts: 643
Posted:Quote:
EDIT = Been getting some complaints bout this so again, I warn all people who are very religious that the following thread may offend you. Please be prepared. I have also edited some text from this first post so that it may be a *little* less offensive to some.


Although I'm not sure what your original post said I think that quite sums up why religion sucks. Seeing some of the aggressive responses is kinda horrible. Were someone to suggest that babies were actually placed in their mommees by storks using laser guns they would be laughed at - but since you DARED point out that virgin births/walking on water/whatever are equally foolish... you get attacked.

To even challenge it is to be told off - and it's not on. Without any proof to back up any religion all people can possibly do is argue and never ever possibly prove anyone's right - it causes such strife.

There's nothing whatsoever wrong with spirituality, but once it stops being a personal internal thing and becomes an organised religion it's all bad.

People stop saying "this is what i think" and they start telling each other "this is right", "this is wrong" with a moral certainty and superiority which cannot be backed up with evidence, causing more strife and many wars and atrocities.

Why did we have to go past spirituality to religion?


I can SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

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FireSpirit
FireSpirit

Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
Location: South Lake Tahoe
Member Since: 29th Mar 2001
Total posts: 743
Posted:Like I said:
Religion is for people that fear Hell, where as Spirituality is for people who have been there...

i8beefy2 You can quote me on that ubblol I don't mind.

People don't realize that "God" is only a moment away, If you ask you shall recieve. But always be thankful for what you have. ubbangel

I think the Bible is missing a few pages, For instance the whole section on Karma and Rencaration. Heven and Hell is right here on Earth... Heven is when Im in it, and Hell is when Im Not. (just remember; If you are going through Hell... Keep going! ubblol)
I think it is a Bit hipocridical (sp?) that all of these religions think Crist will be comming back when they Don't believe in Rencarnation?

I Feel Life is Not about Finding yourself, its about Creating yourself! biggrin
Bettering your Evelutionary Spirit. It may take Many lifetimes, but you will evolve into an inlightened spirit. Things that happen in life, are life lessons, and if you don't deal with them and Let them go, the Lesson will reappear and start a vicious cycle untill delt with. Once you can set it all down and look at it, deal with it. Then you can finelly move on to bigger and better things. Lots of people don't see their cycles, even though they are getting run over by them all of the time. The key is to try to get to the center, not the outskirts, and see the cycle so you can break it. Thats where Meditation comes into play.

I could go on and On, but to each his own. I don't want to preach rolleyes

wave


FIRE IS ALIVE!
IT LIVES AND BREATHS!
IT CONSUMES, AND DISTROYS!
BUT WE CONTROL IT,
AND DANCE WITH FIRE!!

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certifiedloon
newbie
Location: currently New Zealand
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2004
Total posts: 29
Posted:frostypaw, definately. 100% agree

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FireDesireBruno
FireDesireBruno

Flame Wielder
Location: South Africa, JHB
Member Since: 21st Aug 2010
Total posts: 20
Posted:This sums it up well for me grin



EDITED_BY: FireDesireBruno (1293012775)
EDIT_REASON: Linking issue


Unity through Love, Light & Poi

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Jenovadeath
Jenovadeath

newbie
Location: Newcastle, UK
Member Since: 21st Dec 2010
Total posts: 34
Posted:Okay, my personal views...

People can believe whatever they want, have faith in whatever they want, be it God, Allah, Mother Earth or anything else. When it becomes foisted on me, it irritates me. I have no need personally to believe in something intangible to help me through my life, though as my mum's very spiritual I can understand why some people do.

I am very much not a fan organised religion. It has been the cause of so many otherwise preventable wars and deaths. I don't like religious tendencies to cover up crimes committed by their own. And it just amuses me that as soon as science tries to test religious theories, the religious bodies go mad (see Turin Shroud wink )

Yes I am a scientist, I trained in Biology and am now in Engineering. It boils my blood that Creationism is taught in schools in some places because "well it could be true!". NO it couldn't. Evolution has been proven.

Science is a method of testing and proving, as has been pointed out before. If you can disprove something, the scientific community will amend itself. If you say something religious is wrong, it will continue to be believed. Like the possibility that Jesus was a married father - why is that so wrong that it gets shouted down immediately? I don't get it!

I know I sound like I'm on a soapbox here, and maybe I am. But it's my tiny soapbox, and nobody has to listen.

I think this quote from Douglas Adams sums up my views of all things intangible (unless proven otherwise!)..."Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful, without having to imagine fairies at the bottom?"

Dear me, less than a dozen posts and one of them is controversial. Sorry people this is a bit of a ranty subject for me is all. Peace!

xxx


Where was the kaboom? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering kaboom!!

A man who has nothing to die for also has nothing for which to live.

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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418
Posted:I like telling people there could be fairies at the bottom of the garden. It makes life more fun. But nobody knows if there really are or not, but nobody can dispute that I'm right.

hug

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Jenovadeath
Jenovadeath

newbie
Location: Newcastle, UK
Member Since: 21st Dec 2010
Total posts: 34
Posted:we played an excellent prank in my student days on a very uptight, snobby girl who kept belittling me for not believing in EVERYTHING spiritual - God, fairies, pixies, the lot. So I got a rather beefy but camp male friend of mine to dress in a sparkly tutu and tiara and a wand (and biiig boots!) and go sit in the foliage in our garden.

Then I told her I'd seen a fairy. She looked, he danced, she got traumatized and left. Me and him got drunk and laughed.

Evil, but somehow fun.

Anyway, back on topic...

xxx


Where was the kaboom? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering kaboom!!

A man who has nothing to die for also has nothing for which to live.

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Midkiff
shadow stranger
Location: Carmi, Illinois
Member Since: 29th Nov 2009
Total posts: 462
Posted:with as unfortunate as organized religion is it has done lots of good (its still terrible for the atrocities upon their fellow men and women who do not share their faith so they are wrong and must die either being called infidels or heretics etc.) but could you imagine life without the moral standings of people today? could you imagine hitler on every street or idi amin could go on and on but, i am not a religious person slightly spiritual but as much as i dont like organized religion i value the need of it for the masses to be shaped into a coherent workable group that can somewhat get along

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus

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bodhisattva
my body is a tattooed temple
Location: halifax
Member Since: 1st Jun 2008
Total posts: 366
Posted:just read the whole lot found it very interesting that the only ones to get aggressive were the religious ones . i agree that people should be allowed to believe what they want , but i do not like being preached at , especially not on my own doorstep on a saturday morning . what gives them the right to wake me and try to tell me this is how it is ? i'm sure they wouldn't like it if i did the same to them . beliefs are a personal thing , if you want to share them then it should be with people who believe the same things , that is what churches , prayer meets etc are for .

when the body is happy the mind smiles

to live a single day and hear a good teaching is better than to live a hundred without hearing such teaching

and everything is measured by the hole it leaves behind

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JaredW
JaredW

enthusiast
Location: Flying south for the winter.
Member Since: 26th Oct 2009
Total posts: 375
Posted:http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2010/12/19/a-holiday-message-from-ricky-gervais-why-im-an-atheist/
br>
Quote:Why dont I believe in God? No, no no, why do YOU believe in God? Surely the burden of proof is on the believer. You started all this. If I came up to you and said, Why dont you believe I can fly? Youd say, Why would I? Id reply, Because its a matter of faith. If I then said, Prove I cant fly. Prove I cant fly see, see, you cant prove it can you? Youd probably either walk away, call security or throw me out of the window and shout, Fing fly then you lunatic. laugh3


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Midkiff
shadow stranger
Location: Carmi, Illinois
Member Since: 29th Nov 2009
Total posts: 462
Posted:laugh3 laugh3 laugh3 laugh3 that is amazing and a very good point but sadly it wont ever be enough to make a difference in the religious world

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus

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meshunderlay
meshunderlay

Juggler/Spinner
Location: Hicksville, New York, USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2008
Total posts: 612
Posted:I'm not religious only because I'm not a fan of most religions.
What I'm a fan of is practices that combine religion, science and philosophy into each other instead of making them all seperate things.

Long story short, noone will ever really KNOW whether there is a higher power or not. Folks can beleive in science all they want, but just like religious people cannot prove there IS a higher power, scientists cannot prove there ISN'T one.

I beleive, but that's my choice.


(Edit) P.S. Sorry for the rambling thing I wrote below this post.... I'm tired, and that is the worst time to start typing things on the internet....

EDITED_BY: meshunderlay (1293180212)


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meshunderlay
meshunderlay

Juggler/Spinner
Location: Hicksville, New York, USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2008
Total posts: 612
Posted:P.S. to my last post, (P.P.S. I'm too lazy to hit "edit" and add this in)...

Anyhow, P.S. to my last post, I think, and I didn't read through all 6 pages to see if this was mentioned, most problems stem from organized religion.

I think people should be able to freely beleive whatever they want to, even folks who beleive L. Ron Hubbard wasn't just writing a sci-fi book. I have no problem with having a conversation about someone elses religion including their beleifs and other such information, but when you start making demands or "shoving your religion in peoples faces" as it sometimes seems, I think you're going too far.

Then again, I know probably as many religious fanatics as I do vegan fanatics and yes... even FIRE SPINNING fanatics. =P

It's not right to try and force what you do or beleive on to others, and I'm really just putting this out there as a "This is how I feel on the subject."

If you have any creative feedback, feel free to let me know. I try never to argue, and always to understand where it is you are coming from.

P.P.P.S. I know it was vague above, but I am not involved with any organized religions at the moment, but only have a set of beleifs I've gained or thought up over the years based on how I was raised and things I've learned.

P.P.P.P.S. I find it interesting, and I want to look more into this as I might have some facts mistaken but... If science dislikes the idea of spontaneous creation (as do I, it's a little silly), then where did life come from? Sure there was this big bang hootenanny, but what life forms supposedly lived in this condensed incredibly hot mass prior to the bang?


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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:A religion that does NOT force itself on non-believers, does NOT call them godless sinners, breeds no pointless wars and polarizes the human race ... guess is just half the fun.

(nice necrobump btw - we used to discuss stuff like this in SD before the pool froze over)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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blu_valley
blu_valley

fluffy mess
Location: Brighton
Member Since: 8th Apr 2005
Total posts: 197
Posted:I have a belief system, a religion if you will.

I guess you could say that I am christian, I call myself christian for the sake of arguement, but I don't go to church, I don't spend even a second trying to convert others (but I will chat about why I belive what I belive to others if they ask- no one really cares though),and I don't belive that because I have tattoos I'm going to hell.

Religion gets a bad rep because of what people do in it's name. To be honest all those people who start wars and damn others are using religion as their reasoning, if religion didn't exist, they would have found another excuse and done it anyway.

I personally need to belive in Heaven because it calms me down, and I need to belive in hell, because it stops me doing nasty things. I try to just be good and nice, but to be honest, I just sometimes want to hurt people, make a mess for no reason, possibly break things and set things on fire, and the reasons are vast and quite probably not important, but thats the way it is.

I don't feel the need to damn others for their 'sins' but I'd often like to for their faults, is that any different really?

At the end of the day, if you are having fun and youre not hurting anybody, you get a big thumbs up from me. If you are hurting other people with your actions, whatever your reasons may be, you are a prick and you deserve bad things.


"I want to know if you can see beauty even when it's not pretty, every day,and if you can source your own life from its presence.." - Oriah Mountain Dreamer

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Jenovadeath
Jenovadeath

newbie
Location: Newcastle, UK
Member Since: 21st Dec 2010
Total posts: 34
Posted:*applauds* A believer who doesn't try to force it on others! smile


xxx


Where was the kaboom? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering kaboom!!

A man who has nothing to die for also has nothing for which to live.

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Fine_Rabid_Dog
Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...
Member Since: 26th May 2004
Total posts: 10530
Posted:ZOMG paragraphs and intelligent discussion is back on HoP!

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY.

Far too chrimbod up to get into this, but yeah guys! Keep it up!


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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Fyrirrek
stranger

Member Since: 22nd Dec 2010
Total posts: 4
Posted:I think organized or not. When you feel it. You feel lit. Can be complicated if you want. Organized if you want. But I think if we all lived on a mountain somewhere where the scenery was beautiful

We'd tell others about it:) They can go there if they want:)

And what is it?

It's good vibes my friend.

Even a dog knows what good vibes is and what isn't. Good vibe, collective vibe.

I like saying vibe lol


Yes they are mittens!

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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:Originally Posted By: Fyrirrek.... But I think if we all lived on a mountain somewhere where the scenery was beautiful, We'd tell others about it:) They can go there if they want:)


that is quite possibly the best description of belief i've ever heard smile


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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the3rdchild
the3rdchild

the kid down the street

Member Since: 8th Jan 2011
Total posts: 10
Posted:I agree we should follow the sheep and makes clones(refering to the succsefully cloned sheep who recently died R.I.P sheep). I think that religion shouldnt limit us as it does from progressing with technology. As it is we're destroying the Earth and the life on it, so the so called morals mean nada. But I think that thrashing their beliefs isnt nice. Why destroy their hopes of being able to live on and redeem themselves for their "sins". The Earth will shake us off soon enough so let them keep believing and please respect them.

who are you callin wierd, you catch balls, i just swing'em

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:The fact that this thread has remained fairly civil and logical for almost 7 year now seems to be a proof of a benevolent Creator... smile

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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georgemc
georgemc

Sitting down facing forward . . .
Location: Christchurch
Member Since: 16th Oct 2006
Total posts: 2387
Posted:Charles!!! hug :glomp:
Long time no see! Hope all is well north of them hills that no-one cares about?!

I haven't read all this thread, but tend to agree with the sentiments of the last posts at least.

Was thinking about this in the weekend and talking to my sister made a comment that religion was bad and she disputed it. I clarified that I think faith and belief is one thing and perfectly perfectly fine and acceptable but I tend to think of "religion" as "organised faith" and involving "rules" and "forcing" which is bad. She didn't disagree with that but said her contention with my statement was I'd said "all" religion was bad and the likes of Buddhism (for example) is a religion that doesn't tend to "force" rules. It certainly has elements of belief that could be taken as rules but most Buddhist's don't get bent out of shape at non-rule-violators !! Which shut me up for a while.

Then we continued our lovely conversation about our own (hypothetical) religion we were going to start for the pure purpose of revenue gathering for our own personal benefit. It's going to be great people - so if you see a penguin messiah you'll know my plans for religious domination are working out! grin


Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread

I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it.
grin

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