• All Purchases made this month instantly go into the draw to win a USD $ 100.00 credit to your HoP account.
 
Page: 12345
onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:In another thread about drug free spinning a few people said that taking drugs or not was a matter of personal choice.

I feel a little uneasy about applying that phrase to drugs as they tend to be addictive or habit forming substances.

i.e. they effectivly diminish or remove the ability to make choices. for example, someone who has never smoked can choose whether or not to light and smoke a cigarette, but someone who has a thirty a day habit and is severely addicted to nicotine no longer has that choice.

There are millions of smokers in the world who find it impossible to kick their habit, effectivley they have lost their ability to choose.

Whilst some drugs are considered non addictive, due to peer pressure and the pro drug marketing that is rife in our culture, choice is effectivly reduced.

I know that people shouldn't be influenced by such things, but humans are extremely suseptible to this- there wouldn't, for example, be so many drinks promotions if promotions didn't work.

The sad thing is that the young are most suseptible to this pro drug propaganda.

I was wondering what those of you who believe that taking drugs is a matter of personal choice, thought about this?


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete Topic

i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA

Total posts: 674
Posted:Ray you are overstating the danger of drugs enormously. All drugs COMBINED kill less than 1% of the amount of people killed by tobacco or alcohol every year. Granted that is spread out over a larger user base, but if we are to take Amsterdams example, you'd find with legalization the number of people partaking wouldn't increase all that much, so even then deaths in a nonregulated environment would stay about the same, less than 1% level. Of course without SOME regulation businesses eventually imposing their ethics on distribution and things get messed up again. In some ways, we're actually better off having them illegal, because we get far better quality.

Now of course people are capable of making informed decisions. They better be or else democracy is a pointless exercise, and totalitarian regimes can take their place as the better government... Just because someone chooses to do something you don't agree with you make a judgment about their ability to make "good" decisions? I bow to your enlightened nature, because if you've figured out the riddle of right and wrong, that thing that no two people anywhere, at any time, under any cercumstances have ever completely agreed about.... sweet.

Simply because one way of life doesn't work for you, don't assume it doesn't make others' day that much better. Everything is relative.


Delete

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Umm Alcohol and tobacco are drugs.

I love how you have the ability to make a personal insult sound so sweet and caring, as if you're better than me just because you said it.

Grow up man.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Delete

Raphael96
SILVER Member since Sep 2002

old hand
Location: New York City

Total posts: 899
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Josh:
But a large part of the reason people dont make informed decisions is because the laws need supporting information so the populace believes in their neccessity. If the right wing conservative governments started desseminating more accurate information people would begin to wonder why the laws are the way they are...

oh no, cant have people thinking for themselves, whatever would happen next?

(and this goes for more than just drugs btw).

Josh I'm not sure that I agree with you. I'd say rather that the reason people are not informed is that they have not taken the time to educate themselves about the subject in question. The vast majority sit back and blindly follow/believe whatever is spoonfed to them by the media, or by friends/relatives/coworkers who are likely part of that same ignorant majority.

This is not to say that there are not informed people in the world, but the herd instinct is strong enough in humans that we tend to listen to the loudest voice no matter what that voice is saying.

Raph


Delete

i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA

Total posts: 674
Posted:Woh, easy man, no insult intended. I just like to argue the devils advocate position thats all. As a millitary officer, you live by a far different ideology than I do my friend. I was just simply trying to point out by analogy that just because you see things one way doesn't always make you 100% right. No one can be!

It was not however ment as a personal insult. If it came across as such I apologize.


Delete

Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:quote: Isnt it obvius that people do not have the ability to make sound choices? Why else would we have laws against murder and stealing, just to name a few?
There are no people in this world except people...confusing huh?
So if people do not have the baility ot make choices, then police, armed forces and politicians, who are people, don't have the ability to make choices either???


And even if, say 99% of the population were completely unable to make correct choices, what makes you think that they would consider you (or some other person) as the 1% to make all their decisions for them?

They would, as we all do, think they were the 1% and that you should do as THEY say.


I'm not even going to go into the 'reasons' why we have laws, but it is safe to assume it is for far more more complex reasons than that "people do not have the ability to make sound choices".


It may be time to reflect a lot on what you have said, and how it relates to your own inability to make sound choices, just as much as my lack of the same ability.

We ALL have the ability to make sound choices really, but the trick is being able to tell them apart from the unsound ones we make.

aye...there's the rub!


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Delete

frostypaw


Great balls of fire
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Total posts: 643
Posted:quote:The opposite is the case with most, if not all drugs. It is definitly the case with smoking, heroin and alcohol (above a certain level).Common mistakes... alcohol's damaging at any level and heroin IS NOT

oddly enough all the problems associated with heroin only turned up once it became illegal and people had to take inferior impure heroin - there are still some (20 odd i believe) legalised heroin addicts in the UK and some of them in pretty high up positions, and the truth is that with a supply of the good drug they need less, can control their dosages, ween themselves off and in the meantime have a normal and fully functional life - it's only the withdrawal and random dosage strengths/purities that cause all the problems

witness... the netherlands and its' services

oh - and ray's assumption that laws are there because people are stupid and don't know how to make their own decisions....

that doesn't surprise me at all somehow

laws are there to determine what happens IF you do something, not to control what you can do, though sadly it's got that way

people CAN make their own decisions if properly educated and informed and that should be our goal - not to limit what everyone can do to the utter maximum so they can't do any harm - what kind of freedom is that? NONE

i find it odd that you joke so happily about the addictive qualities of alcohol considering that other thread tho


I can SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Delete

onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:quote:Originally posted by frostypaw:
quote:The opposite is the case with most, if not all drugs. It is definitly the case with smoking, heroin and alcohol (above a certain level).Common mistakes... alcohol's damaging at any level and heroin IS NOT

Here's the actual quote in its full context: -
-----------------------
Your comment that 'everything you do is destructive' is a little strange. Eating for example is in some ways harmful, in that all food contains minor poisons; but the health benefits of eating far outweigh the harmful aspects.

The opposite is the case with most, if not all drugs. It is definitly the case with smoking, heroin and alcohol (above a certain level).
---------------------------

Firstly, as 99% of users are taking street heroin, that is the kind I am referring to here; as you yourself have pointed out street heroin definitly does more harm to the body than good.

Secondly, even with pure heroin, if we're being precise, the quote holds true as the opposite of 'the health benefits of heroin far outweigh the harmful aspects' is 'the health benefits of heroin do not outweigh the harmful aspects'.

Unless you're claiming that pure heroin is not only not harmful, but actually improves health.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

frostypaw


Great balls of fire
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Total posts: 643
Posted:whoa whoa just giving point of information not saying you were wrong!

it's just not harmful not health-giving


I can SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Delete

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:http://theantidrug.com/drug_info/index.html


quote: Usually smoked as a cigarette or joint, or in a pipe or bong, marijuana has appeared in "blunts" in recent years. These are cigars that have been emptied of tobacco and re-filled with marijuana, sometimes in combination with another drug, such as crack. Some users also mix marijuana into foods or use it to brew tea.

The main active chemical in marijuana is THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol). Short-term effects of marijuana use include problems with memory and learning; distorted perception; difficulty in thinking and problem-solving; loss of coordination; and increased heart rate, anxiety, and panic attacks.

Health Hazards

Effects of Marijuana on the Brain. Researchers have found that THC changes the way in which sensory information gets into and is acted on by the hippocampus. This is a component of the brain's limbic system that is crucial for learning, memory, and the integration of sensory experiences with emotions and motivations. Investigations have shown that THC suppresses neurons in the information-processing system of the hippocampus. In addition, researchers have discovered that learned behaviors, which depend on the hippocampus, also deteriorate.

Effects on the Lungs. Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems that tobacco smokers have. These individuals may have daily cough and phlegm, symptoms of chronic bronchitis, and more frequent chest colds. Continuing to smoke marijuana can lead to abnormal functioning of lung tissue injured or destroyed by marijuana smoke.

Regardless of the THC content, the amount of tar inhaled by marijuana smokers and the level of carbon monoxide absorbed are three to five times greater than among tobacco smokers. This may be due to marijuana users inhaling more deeply and holding the smoke in the lungs.


Effects of Marijuana Use during Pregnancy. Research has shown that babies born to women who used marijuana during their pregnancies display altered responses to visual stimuli, increased tremulousness, and a high-pitched cry, which may indicate problems with neurological development. During infancy and preschool years, marijuana-exposed children have been observed to have more behavioral problems and to perform tasks of visual perception, language comprehension, sustained attention, and memory more poorly than nonexposed children do. In school, these children are more likely to exhibit deficits in decision-making skills, memory, and the ability to remain attentive.

Effects of Heavy Marijuana Use on Learning and Social Behavior. A study of college students has shown that critical skills related to attention, memory, and learning are impaired among people who use marijuana heavily, even after discontinuing its use for at least 24 hours. Researchers compared 65 "heavy users," who had smoked marijuana a median of 29 of the past 30 days, and 64 "light users," who had smoked a median of 1 of the past 30 days. After a closely monitored 19- to 24-hour period of abstinence from marijuana and other illicit drugs and alcohol, the undergraduates were given several standard tests measuring aspects of attention, memory, and learning. Compared to the light users, heavy marijuana users made more errors and had more difficulty sustaining attention, shifting attention to meet the demands of changes in the environment, and in registering, processing, and using information. The findings suggest that the greater impairment among heavy users is likely due to an alteration of brain activity produced by marijuana.
Longitudinal research on marijuana use among young people below college age indicates those who used have lower achievement than the non-users, more acceptance of deviant behavior, more delinquent behavior and aggression, greater rebelliousness, poorer relationships with parents, and more associations with delinquent and drug-using friends.
The facts about pot, go ahead, try to dissmiss them.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Delete

frostypaw


Great balls of fire
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Total posts: 643
Posted:That's not "the facts" that's some research results

and not very good research either by the way.

Now go find the comparable one about alcohol, or just pop down an AA meeting


I can SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Delete

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:hahaha not very good reaseach!


Sorry man thats fact, you cant argue with it. If you actually looked at the link, you would see on the left side of the screen research about alcohol, and frankly, knowing the facts should help with an addiction. It isnt the cure, but it should help.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Delete

frostypaw


Great balls of fire
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Total posts: 643
Posted:but if you're banging on about addiction weed isn't addictive... well barely

certainly never heard of someone having a weed overdose or not being able to give it up


I can SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Delete

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:There is more to it than a chemical addiction.
Who cares what I was talking about a few posts ago, what I talked about then was fact.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Delete

Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Ray - the only problem I have about the above post is the website starts with:
theantidrug.com

From the off you can kind of guess it's not going to give a neutral view


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

Delete

mrFlibble
SILVER Member since Mar 2003

Ghostbuster
Location: York, UK

Total posts: 455
Posted:i wish that people wouldn't try to control others behaviour, provided that behaviour is not physically harmful to others.

and a long list of harmful effects is pointless when ALL substances have harmful effects if you have too much or too little, or if they get into your body in the wrong place.


Delete

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
Isnt it obvius that people do not have the ability to make sound choices? Why else would we have laws against murder and stealing, just to name a few? The difference is that murder and theft cause tangible and direct harm to others. Smoking weed in the privacy of my own house harms nobody other than myself. It certainly causes nobody else any more harm than, say, drinking alcohol or smoking tobacco, both of which are legal.

I defy you to give me one good reason why alcohol should remain legal while marijuana should not.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:quote:Originally posted by mrFlibble:



and a long list of harmful effects is pointless when ALL substances have harmful effects if you have too much or too little, or if they get into your body in the wrong place. There's a huge difference between the cancer causing properties of tobacco and the harmful effects of substanceslike water.

Normal use of tobbacco WILL result in a significantly increased risk of cancer/herat disease etc; whilst substances like water are only harmful with gross over consumption.

Lists of the genuine harmful consequences of drug use are every bit as useful as lists of the harmful effects of substances like asbestos.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:quote:Originally posted by frostypaw:
but if you're banging on about addiction weed isn't addictive... well barely

certainly never heard of someone having a weed overdose or not being able to give it up I've known a lot of people who can't give up weed.

I'm not saying this as an argument to not smoke weed, I just want to challenge the common belief that people never get damaged or end up being compelled to take it.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Mike, I cant give you a reason, both effect your brain and body in negitive ways.

In fact they should all be illeagle.

Ohh and if you think you are just hurting yourself, why dont you take a look at the "If it doesnt hurt anybody" thread (or whatever I called it).


Is it worth going to jail and not finishing school? I bet that would hurt your parents.

The actual act may not hurt anyone but you, but the conciquences... they could do more harm than you could ever think.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Delete

mrFlibble
SILVER Member since Mar 2003

Ghostbuster
Location: York, UK

Total posts: 455
Posted:the whole topic is academic really since as long as drugs exist people will use them regardless of laws or not.

the more people are told they can't/shouldn't do something, the more they will. stating the obvious i know

a never ending argument for and against just gets boring as most people will never change their views.


Delete

frostypaw


Great balls of fire
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Total posts: 643
Posted:"Mike, I cant give you a reason, both effect your brain and body in negitive ways.

In fact they should all be illeagle."

You can't give any reason because ya don't know! there's certainly no reason they all should be illegal, maybe you THINK that but it's a million miles from FACT and since we know you drink you don't have a foot to stand on....

OneWheelDave - i'm interested to hear about these weed addicts tho, what happened when they did try and give up? actual ill effects or was it more of a habit than a physical addiction?


I can SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Delete

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Ohh Mr. Hate himself IE Frosty... actually man, I think that if one is illeagle they all should be. And yes I do drink from time to time.


The reason they should all be illeagle is that they effect your brain and body in a negitive way. They are harmfull end of story.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Delete

onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:quote:Originally posted by frostypaw:

OneWheelDave - i'm interested to hear about these weed addicts tho, what happened when they did try and give up? actual ill effects or was it more of a habit than a physical addiction? Similar to cigarettes, at some point they get fed up with some aspect of their weed taking (e.g. paranoia, expense, the way it's affecting their work/studies) and make a decision to give up.

A while later they end up buying some more.

Generally it's when people have been using it for a fair while.

I suspect it's several factors e.g. the fact that much of their social life has become focused around weed, maybe the addictive qualities of the tobacco in spliffs.

Also, weed can be seen as a source of comfort and way of relaxing; attempting to rid your life of it can be a major change and cause of stress, so the act of trying to move away from it puts you in the situation in which you would normally turn to it for comfort.

I should make clear that a lot of the people I know of weren't just having the odd spliff now and again; they were regulars consuming from an eighth to a half ounce or more per week.

At that level it becomes a lifestyle.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

frostypaw


Great balls of fire
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Total posts: 643
Posted:Gotta say mate that "a while later they end up buying some more" doesn't sound like a damaging addiction to me

i mean i like pizza, sometimes i stop eating that as i know it's fatty - and a while later i end up buying some more and eating it with my friends, but i wouldn't call that a bad addiction. if they can stop when they feel it's having a negative effect then they're fine - and sober they can decide whether they want to buy some more or stop.

would ya rather they went for a couple of pints after work every day to relax? honest question

quote:Ohh Mr. Hate himself IE Frosty... actually man, I think that if one is illeagle they all should be. And yes I do drink from time to time.


The reason they should all be illeagle is that they effect your brain and body in a negitive way. They are harmfull end of story.Why have I become Mr. Hate Myself? Ask some of the peeps who've met me....

Anyhows - so you don't think alcohol affects your brain and body in a negative way? I mean if one is illegal they all should be right? Why bother making any distinctions. How about chilli? You know that is a sort-of drug right? and that there are abuse problems associated with it - it only affects your brain and body in a negative way, like alcohol - so should that be illegal too? And mace? Chocolate/cocoa is a drug - we should ban that too, vitamin C and all poppys being grown anywhere, they all contain opiates.

I mean I would have though that we, as human beings with human rights, should have the capacity to decide whether to do such things for ourselves - should we ban bungee jumping too? that has no advantage but causes plenty of injury, or rollercoasters....

Can you not see how ridiculous that line of reasoning is?!?


I can SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Delete

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
Mike, I cant give you a reason, both effect your brain and body in negitive ways.

In fact they should all be illeagle.

Ohh and if you think you are just hurting yourself, why dont you take a look at the "If it doesnt hurt anybody" thread (or whatever I called it). So you are fighting for "freedom," but in your vision of freedom, people don't have the freedom to make choices that affect their own bodies.

It sounds like hyopcracy to me, Ray, not freedom. In fact, it sounds like a step in the road to totalitarianism.

And I strongly disagreed with you in your "if it doesn't hurt anybody" thread. I believe that you are making things your business that ought not to be. Freedom requires the liberty to mess yourself up. What we CAN and SHOULD do is do a much better job of educating people on the harm that they can cause themselves. But ultimately, we can't force choices.

So, Ray, I'll tell you what: you put your money where your mouth is. You think that all drugs, including alcohol, are so bad, STOP DRINKING. I mean complete abstinence. Until you do that, you're simply a hypocrite.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA

Total posts: 674
Posted:So if it's illegal we should just go ahead and destroy the species right? I mean, this wonderfull miracle of plant evolution, which is one of, if not the most evolved plant species on the planet, just because we have to "protect people from themselves". Yes it's harmfull, but maybe people take the view that we all are going to die some day, so you might as well die doing something you love. Should we ban skydiving and bungi jumping because they are potentially dangerous? How about poi for it's environmentally and personally damaging fumes? Chocolate because its made from a cocoa bean? Salvia Divinorum because some people have just begun to realize its hallucinagenic effects? How about we destroy the fungal kingdom because a family therein contains psilocybin?

Of course that is all absurd. It is impossible to kill off a plant species (Though we've done pretty good with animal species so far). These things will always be around, telling someone they can't have it isn't going to stop someone from wanting it if they already do. If it exists here naturally, it is our human right to have access to it if we so choose.

Everything dies, getting on the immortality trip and saying that living as long as possible is "everyones" goal will not change that. Even the Greek's realized that not everyone agreed on what makes a "Good and happy life" (Socrates just took them down a logical progression in The Republic... quite easy to do with any ignorant people really. Luckily others came to ask similar questions and find differing answers over the coming centuries) One of my favorite things to do is to smoke and go lay outside and enjoy the sun or play with my poi and such. Doing so wears down parts of my body and shortens my life span, but I enjoy it. I make a judgement call, just as you do, and I find that I would rather be HAPPY in life, in the way that I enjoy, then live an extra 10 years. Why, so I can see how messed up the world gets in those extra years?

All of life is suffering, and happiness comes in small doses as long as you are so attached to it. I like to take it where I can get it. My family knows about my habits, in fact it is often a discussion at family dinner gatherings when I piss someone off with my philosophical views. They all are ok with it, and only a few of them try to pull it out as a "bad thing" once in a while, but a quick talley of my life accomplishments usually quiets them. Contrary to popular belief, pothead does not equal failure. Just as coke head does not always mean failure... sometimes it just means lawer, or doctor, or some other well paid profession that can actually AFFORD it. I find in my experience it is often the MONEY issue involved in drugs that is "destructive". Not being able to make wise financial decissions, like whether to buy a bag or groceries... well some people may need help with that. I know several social workers who have to go shopping with their clients to assure they buy FOOD and not BEER, same concept.

At the same time though, I am not excessive in my usage, so perhaps I am speeking from my mountain presupposing similar values in other potheads, which I realize is not always the case. All of my friends fair the same as I though, so I have an inflated sample size of people under similar good standing in the face of their "destructive behavior". I still do everything I have to do, even if it is harder to build the motivation sometimes. People who ABUSE drugs (I don't consider myself an abuser, just a user) usually have many skeletons in their closets that make them retreat into drug use...

Where was society trying to help them when they really HAD problems? No, better to wait until they do something illegal so we can just lock them up. Great, back to pre-1970's deinstitutionalism asylum structure. Society likes to hide its problems instead of deal with them.

Finally on the legality issue (Sorry, just drank a can of mountain dew and you got me started ), if it WERE legal, I wouldn't have any problems. Because I wouldn't buy it, I would grow it. Which goes to show, you could brew your own beer, and still so few people do it. Or wine which is even easier! Save lots of money in the longrun. I guess the means that laziness is self destructive... oh oh! Better make that illegal! Oh but then every philosophical view that centers around non-doing (something that may be alien to some neo-Protestant work ethic social structures like ours) would have their freedoms of religious practice and persuit of happiness infringed upon.

Persuit of happiness... as long as it's cleared with Big Brother first apparently...


Delete

onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:quote:Originally posted by frostypaw:
Gotta say mate that "a while later they end up buying some more" doesn't sound like a damaging addiction to me

i mean i like pizza, sometimes i stop eating that as i know it's fatty - and a while later i end up buying some more and eating it with my friends, but i wouldn't call that a bad addiction. Maybe I put it a little mildly so as not to provoke an argument on this sensitive issue.

What I meant was that they would get totally sick of the negative aspects of using large amounts of weed for many years, so it had got to the point where they didn't have a single friend who was not either selling weed to them, or buying weed from them.

Where the main priority of the their week would be the aquisition of their supply and the usual way of funding their personal habit would be to buy extra and deal it to their friends. This would be a cause of much extra stress in their life (as legal penalties for dealing are harsh) and add to their desire to get out.

So what I am saying is that they made a decision to escape from a fairly hellish existence, yet, at some point in the future, would find themselves right back in it.

I would say that the above scenario in no way resembles your pizza experiences.

Incidently, the above scenario does relate to the title and original post of this thread which was about the issues of taking substances which are addictive or habit forming and therefore reduce the individuals ability to make rational choice.

Many of the recent posts on this thread are not about that, but instead are peoples opinions of the pros/cons of drugs.

I can also see that, as opinions on that subject are quite strong, there is scope for some pointless and aggressive arguing.

I would ask that further posts here stay on topic. If someone feels the need for discussing pros/cons of drugs it is a simple matter to start a new thread on the subject.

To aid in this I have put the original post below.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Here is the thread starter, please note that it is not about pros/cons of drugs, but about choice and the issue of taking choice reducing substances: -

-----------------------------------
In another thread about drug free spinning a few people said that taking drugs or not was a matter of personal choice.

I feel a little uneasy about applying that phrase to drugs as they tend to be addictive or habit forming substances.

i.e. they effectivly diminish or remove the ability to make choices. for example, someone who has never smoked can choose whether or not to light and smoke a cigarette, but someone who has a thirty a day habit and is severely addicted to nicotine no longer has that choice.

There are millions of smokers in the world who find it impossible to kick their habit, effectivley they have lost their ability to choose.

Whilst some drugs are considered non addictive, due to peer pressure and the pro drug marketing that is rife in our culture, choice is effectivly reduced.

I know that people shouldn't be influenced by such things, but humans are extremely suseptible to this- there wouldn't, for example, be so many drinks promotions if promotions didn't work.

The sad thing is that the young are most suseptible to this pro drug propaganda.

I was wondering what those of you who believe that taking drugs is a matter of personal choice, thought about this?
--------------------------------


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

frostypaw


Great balls of fire
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Total posts: 643
Posted:But people do still have choice - and different drugs affect people differently that's why the discussion has fragmented some

for some drug A poses that risk - for others it does not

and certainly whether they are addictive or not applies to that

certainly i've never met a dope smoker in the state you describe, indeed most just stop or regulate their usage better than most drinkers i know - but they did manage to stop... maybe after that they needed to change their social circle and didn't *shrugs* i wouldn't know

thing is person by person drug by drug it's different, even nicotene, one of the worlds most addictive substances, can be given up - there is the choice - just are you willing to pay the price?


I can SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Delete

onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:quote:Originally posted by frostypaw:
But people do still have choice - and different drugs affect people differently that's why the discussion has fragmented some

for some drug A poses that risk - for others it does not

and certainly whether they are addictive or not applies to that

certainly i've never met a dope smoker in the state you describe, indeed most just stop or regulate their usage better than most drinkers i know - but they did manage to stop... maybe after that they needed to change their social circle and didn't *shrugs* i wouldn't know

thing is person by person drug by drug it's different, even nicotene, one of the worlds most addictive substances, can be given up - there is the choice - just are you willing to pay the price? So are we in agreement that some people, using some drugs lose their ability to choose to not take that drug?

I'm not talking about being stuck forever, but that they are in a situation where they definitly want to not use the drug anymore, but are compelled to do so by something beyond their control.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

Page: 12345

Similar Topics

Using the keywords [drug* choice] we found the following similar topics.
1. Learn > Looking after you > Online and Social Safety > Staying safe while clubbing *help/resource drugs  with events of the past few weeks ...
2. Forums > Drugs and choice [126 replies]
3. Forums > California, is druggy druggy druggy druggy... [14 replies]
4. Forums > Drug Free Spinning. [101 replies]
5. Forums > The Drug Topic!! [126 replies]

     Show more..