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Salem_Archfiend
Salem_Archfiend

Dirty Raver Pocket Monster
Location: lost vegas NV
Member Since: 9th Nov 2008
Total posts: 11
Posted:A friend of mine was talking about different styles and he broke them all down into performance poi and battle poi. now i can tell the difference between the two, but Im curious as to what kind of movements and tricks one should execute. he said something about attack moves but i dont know what those are. do any of you?

Broken!This somber heart betrays only what it knows. A tragedy if nothing less. It merely scrapes the bones.You fell for kiss and a gentle touch.Now lost and alone...You hold your grudge,Because all you ever wanted You never really wanted that much-Salem

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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418
Posted:I know nothing about battle poi as thats just not my style. I don't 100% understand the idea of battles, you might more so, but would it perhaps be tech kinda stuff? Thats just a vague guess, though.

hug

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16.15.8
16.15.8

I cant think therefore Im not
Location: In my backpack
Member Since: 16th Jul 2005
Total posts: 291
Posted:No tech, just make sure to have fun!

"I dont like shoes, definitely not spinning with shoes, they make my feet feel flat, my feet are not flat...."

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:"Battle poi"?
Sweet lord no...


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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_Poiboy_
_Poiboy_

bastard child of satan
Location: Raanana, Israel
Member Since: 12th Jan 2004
Total posts: 1113
Posted:by battle do you mean a staged fight?
or a battle like breakdancers and such do?

the first one doesn't make much sense to categorize moves into, since it would be just pretending to almost hit the other person.

and i just don't like the second one


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Mucky
Mucky

Rum-Swilling Combustioneer
Location: Macungie, PA, USA
Member Since: 7th Apr 2008
Total posts: 227
Posted:Well, I can't comment on staged combat with fire tools, since I think it's very difficult to avoid looking corny, but as far as breakdance-style battle, my brother and I sometimes have impromptu face-offs while we practice (he with staff, I with poi), and it's fun mimicking each others moves, but we aren't at all competitive about it. For us it isn't about winning, or being a better spinner - it's just an energetic display of building on each others techniques. It's a good practice technique, too, because it really forces you to rely on seamless transitions and great control. And it makes you practice moves you might otherwise feel inclined to skip or put off until later (as I find is often the case with my practices)! It's how my stepbrother and I started learning devil sticks, too.

We probably wouldn't ever do it outside a practice context, but I don't have anything against the idea - as long as everybody's friends at the end of the day.

Poi is all about performance anyway! So as far as "battle moves," I doubt there really are any that wouldn't otherwise fit into a normal performance poi context; likewise any solid poi move has a place in a "battle" type setting.


Bouncing Baby Pipe!

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MRC
MRC

Funky Blessings Daily

Member Since: 17th Jun 2008
Total posts: 215
Posted:I can't imagine there being a big difference. In any dance battle...you dance. Of course in each round you attempt to do at least one largely impressive move. I actually wish I saw more of this in fire dancing. I think without battles break dancing wouldn't even be what it is today, I think it's a good motivation for creativity.

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Such
Such

Rancor
Location: Right Here
Member Since: 17th Sep 2008
Total posts: 253
Posted:Well, when I battle poi I like to fashion sharp instruments on my poi in place of softness. After that I find the simple three beat most effective. You can tear up an army of zombies that way...

Human

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Such

Rancor
Location: Right Here
Member Since: 17th Sep 2008
Total posts: 253
Posted:Originally Posted By: doppelGangerWell, when I battle poi I like to fashion sharp instruments on my poi in place of softness. After that I find the simple three beat most effective. You can tear up an army of zombies that way...

Although there was that one time when I needed the 5-beat... boy what a mess.


Human

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Joop
Joop

Dave :D
Location: england
Member Since: 26th Dec 2008
Total posts: 6
Posted:Originally Posted By: doppelGangerOriginally Posted By: doppelGangerWell, when I battle poi I like to fashion sharp instruments on my poi in place of softness. After that I find the simple three beat most effective. You can tear up an army of zombies that way...

Although there was that one time when I needed the 5-beat... boy what a mess.

lol O.o scary thing is i have done this with knives... me and a mate got bored so we stuck knives on the ends of the chains and swang some 5 beats out well he did 3 beatsas hes only jsut started haha xD


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Such
Such

Rancor
Location: Right Here
Member Since: 17th Sep 2008
Total posts: 253
Posted:What you need is to attach a fire sword on each one, that could get interesting smile

Human

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Salem_Archfiend
Salem_Archfiend

Dirty Raver Pocket Monster
Location: lost vegas NV
Member Since: 9th Nov 2008
Total posts: 11
Posted:OMG THATS SOOOOOOO off what i ment!!!! no competition or staged fight or anything like that, what i meant was the different ways you use you arsenel of moves... i guess, when i see some poi artist like nick or yuta i see lots of "show moves" big anti spins lots flowery stuff and all that, when me and my friends spin we like to "Move through" our poi and do really sharp turns and lots of aggresive expression through what we can do. i dont know... but ive been watching enough styles i can tell the diffrence now i just need someone else to be able to so i can make some attack moves

Broken!This somber heart betrays only what it knows. A tragedy if nothing less. It merely scrapes the bones.You fell for kiss and a gentle touch.Now lost and alone...You hold your grudge,Because all you ever wanted You never really wanted that much-Salem

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Salem_Archfiend
Salem_Archfiend

Dirty Raver Pocket Monster
Location: lost vegas NV
Member Since: 9th Nov 2008
Total posts: 11
Posted:with that person

Broken!This somber heart betrays only what it knows. A tragedy if nothing less. It merely scrapes the bones.You fell for kiss and a gentle touch.Now lost and alone...You hold your grudge,Because all you ever wanted You never really wanted that much-Salem

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Such
Such

Rancor
Location: Right Here
Member Since: 17th Sep 2008
Total posts: 253
Posted:Originally Posted By: Salem_ArchfiendOMG THATS SOOOOOOO off what i ment!!!! no competition or staged fight or anything like that, what i meant was the different ways you use you arsenel of moves... i guess, when i see some poi artist like nick or yuta i see lots of "show moves" big anti spins lots flowery stuff and all that, when me and my friends spin we like to "Move through" our poi and do really sharp turns and lots of aggresive expression through what we can do. i dont know... but ive been watching enough styles i can tell the diffrence now i just need someone else to be able to so i can make some attack moves

smile I know, I was joking.


Human

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Mucky
Mucky

Rum-Swilling Combustioneer
Location: Macungie, PA, USA
Member Since: 7th Apr 2008
Total posts: 227
Posted:Do you mean moves that *look* more like attacks? Rather than moves that are all big flair and showy impressiveness? That would still fall under "performance" moves, if it's meant strictly to entertain an audience...

Perhaps you should consider looking into rope dart techniques - the rope dart originated as a weapon and many of the basic moves are derived from attacks from this weapon... It's much longer than poi, and a lot of fun when you get the hang of it!


Bouncing Baby Pipe!

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Such
Such

Rancor
Location: Right Here
Member Since: 17th Sep 2008
Total posts: 253
Posted:Why don't you tell us the difference between the two? smile

Human

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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418
Posted:Who are you talking to, doppelGanger, and in reference to what? I'd have a punt at answering your question if you're addressing Mucky, but if you're addressing Salem_Archfiend then I can't help you there. smile

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Such
Such

Rancor
Location: Right Here
Member Since: 17th Sep 2008
Total posts: 253
Posted:Originally Posted By: Salem_Archfiendnow i can tell the difference between the two

I was addressing Salem smile


Human

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the_mods_stole_my_name
the_mods_stole_my_name

travelling without moving
Location: Maghull, Liverpool
Member Since: 9th May 2006
Total posts: 1286
Posted:Originally Posted By: doppelGangerWell, when I battle poi I like to fashion sharp instruments on my poi in place of softness. After that I find the simple three beat most effective. You can tear up an army of zombies that way...

three beat weave would be totally ineffective in battle as theres always one side of you exposed, leaving you open to attack.....i found this out whilst scrapping with a staff spinner!


Heilige Scheie, Batman kommt!

Reality is just a state of mind which occurs through a lack of lsd

XxX owned by devilsarmy XxX

O.B.E.S.E.

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Mucky
Mucky

Rum-Swilling Combustioneer
Location: Macungie, PA, USA
Member Since: 7th Apr 2008
Total posts: 227
Posted:Mods, that depends on your timing - you can easily "cover" both sides of you with a 3-beat. It'd still be ineffective, but not for that reason! I'd bet on the staff every time, unless you have poi made of sharp rocks. In which case the staffer would probably have a staff of shark's teeth... Or lasers...

Bouncing Baby Pipe!

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hamamelis
hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.
Member Since: 5th Jan 2006
Total posts: 756
Posted:Yeah.. lightsabers for teh win..

I've seen a 'battle scene' in a show done as poi spinners vs staffers- about 20 of each, looks pretty effective from a distance even if it blatantly doesn't work close up.


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

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jarle
jarle

Lv15 Ranger
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 13th Mar 2007
Total posts: 1489
Posted:Lightsaber combat is all twirling anyway. Especially Darth Maul...

Kupo!

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animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:I think I see what Salem Archfiend is on about.

Rather than 'attack and defence', I think 'passive and aggressive' are better terms. Kinda like yin and yang...

I do however, smell hippies. wink


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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Lev
Firedance Philosopher
Location: Vancouver BC Canada
Member Since: 19th Jan 2009
Total posts: 79
Posted:There's a video of nick doing a kobuki/kyojen fight with double club spin vs staff that's pretty decent (actual contact fight, not just jams as you guys are talking about).
The poi spinning he did was amazing though.

I think there is no "real" difference between "battle" poi and other poi, as I have no reason to think so.

What I do know is that there's a certain energy when you mimic someone that feels really really good, and that the energy is free and expressive for me and would wither under cage and spotlight.


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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418

TheAmazingBaz
stranger
Location: Boston, USA
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2008
Total posts: 6
Posted:Originally Posted By: Salem_Archfiendhe said something about attack moves but i dont know what those are. do any of you?

From this, I think he was referring to "double chain whip" kung fu type moves, and not glowstringer/breakdancer type battling.

There is a great DVD series put out by John Su called "Rock Solid Double Chain Whip" (I've only seen volumes 1 and 2, but there may be more).
It actually covers a very unusual list of moves, as a lot of the technique is based on the 3 beat weave, but has a lot of rope-dart style through-wraps and "shots" thrown in. And, of course, there are also the standard acrobatic kung fu type moves (flips, jumping up and down while seated on the ground, etc), but this time incorporating the darts.

Of course, every serious weapons-based martial artist I've spoken to over the years has told me that using a flexable weapon (like a rope-dart or heavy chain) in a real fight is a really bad idea. Not only because your reaction time is limited to the speed at which you can bring the weapon back around (specifically 1 beat in poi terms), but also because your reach is pretty lousy (being neither a close in, grapple-friendly weapon, nor an accurate mid-range weapon like a sword).

Of course, if your friend meant dance battles, the only real guidelines are a) be able to "imitate, then innovate" (be able to copy the "opponent's" moves, but kick them up a notch), and b) look cooler when you spin (better posture, footwork, and general dance ability).
But battling is so very 2001 - which is to say, out of style for a decade and considered pretty lame these days.

- Baz

"To have one's limits dictated by choice and not by inability, this is the true source of freedom."


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aston
aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2007
Total posts: 4061
Posted:Originally Posted By: TheAmazingBazOf course, every serious weapons-based martial artist I've spoken to over the years has told me that using a flexable weapon (like a rope-dart or heavy chain) in a real fight is a really bad idea. Not only because your reaction time is limited to the speed at which you can bring the weapon back around (specifically 1 beat in poi terms), but also because your reach is pretty lousy (being neither a close in, grapple-friendly weapon, nor an accurate mid-range weapon like a sword).

It is also harder to control when hitting someone than a solid weapon is since the rebound is not entirely predictable....


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Mucky
Mucky

Rum-Swilling Combustioneer
Location: Macungie, PA, USA
Member Since: 7th Apr 2008
Total posts: 227
Posted:I don't mean to hijack this thread - but my background is martial arts long before performance twirling, and I've always loved flexible weapons, even for sparring. They do have many drawbacks, but if you train to use them for their strengths, you'll do fine. As far as close-in grappling, if you can use chain weapons to bind the arms, hands, or other parts of the opponent, you're in good condition. Most people's problem is only that they try to use it like a weapon they're familiar with. And as far as reaction times - that's just a matter of training to use your momentum effectively. Most of the "moves" you see people training in are showy and impressive, but not good for a fight.

And as for rebound - well, get a heavier weapon! One hit should do the trick, no need to worry about rebound! wink


Bouncing Baby Pipe!

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aston
aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2007
Total posts: 4061
Posted:tongue2

I never said that they were ineffective, just harder to be effective with. Or at least that is what I meant....

A sword is fairly straight forward (hold the blunt end, stick the pointy end into the other person) but nunchaku take some getting used to. Both can be effective in the right hands.

And I was more worried about hitting myself on a rebound. But training would obviously help....

Dragging this back on topic... I do not really get the battling scene, but it could be fun if taken as a "show me what you can do and I will reciprocate" type of thing.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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V_Regal
Lost in the Lights
Location: BC, Canada
Member Since: 16th Feb 2009
Total posts: 101
Posted:Hehe. I'm pretty good at using knives... ;]
But I'd rather a meteor chain than poi in a real battle any day.
If it's a show battle, then poi might be better, if you can throw. Besides, a meteor chain derived from the Meteor Hammer, which is a real one I enjoy using, and you can essentially use a temporary, makeshift one by tangling/knotting the handle ends of your poi.


Risen from the Ashes
The Phoenix shall rise in his royal flaire.
FIND YOUR DESTINY.

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Lev
Firedance Philosopher
Location: Vancouver BC Canada
Member Since: 19th Jan 2009
Total posts: 79
Posted:Poi emulate double 9section whip FYI.

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