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Forums > Social Discussion > Future advertising using YouTube's Flash Player in the forums

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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: HOP

Total posts: 1002
Posted:Note: "Flash" is a set of multimedia technologies. Flash is commonly used to create animation, advertisements, various web page components, to integrate video into web pages.



Some of you may know that YouTube (owned by Google) is running at a major loss, losing millions.



However it is very popular and embedded videos are appearing everywhere.



Now YouTube is loving this as it gives them heaps of exposure.

And their plan is to use this to advertise products and services by running pre-ads, post-ads or overlay banner ads with your YouTube videos.



As you know we currently allow the YouTube Flash player to be embedded into our forums, however we have the option of removing the flash player and only showing the link to the YouTube video on their site.



Do you like the idea of scrolling our forums and seeing flash adverts where the YouTube videos are?



It really goes against this sites rules of no advertising allowed in the forums.



Google "adwords" Allows sites to run advertising on their sites and Google shares the revenue with the site owner.

However this does not seem to be the case with YouTube Flash adverts.



YouTube is a business and should be allowed to make money when they decide to add in their flash adverts.



HOP will revisit our embedding of the YouTube flash player once they start adverting.



We have nothing against Google or YouTube and we already spend heaps of money with Google.



We will continue to link to YouTube videos, it is only the embedded Flash Player that may cause issues.



What future can you see for YouTube?



Would you like to see Flash adverts on our forums?



Do you think there will be a global change to remove the YouTube flash player from others sites and just link to their website?



How do you feel about all this?


"May your balls always burn"

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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Total posts: 3597
Posted:I say keep it, from what it sounds like the ads wont be too invasive and i think youtube is great. I would pay to be a member (depending on how much) just like on tribe.net

But i may not be understanding fully. Would the flash ads be shown when the movie is not being played? i dont see that as a big deal. However i do think that youtube has done wonders for many people, and couldnt IMAGINE starting to spin without it.


O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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fanged_angel
BRONZE Member since Jul 2007

fanged_angel

poiromaniac
Location: liverpool, uk

Total posts: 162
Posted:youtube are also running the sorta opposite thing where people can make money from youtube by allowing ads to be on their pages and the only catch is that you have to upload vids quite recently but im sure we as a few thousand strong community could pull this off. im willing to offer my services even tho they are limited to pretty noobish spinning and a not-particually-good camera. on the whole tho i know the money will be passed on to us in the form of discounts and pretty things smile

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:I don't like youtube and I don't like adverts.

I voted for option 2.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:I don't entirely understand...but I don't like the idea of adverts

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
Posted:I think the subversion by the big corporates of community-based communication mediums in order to bolster their profit margins is crap.

I dont watch TV for this reason (among others) and I'd hate to see it creeping in around the edges here.

I dont like corps trying to control my behaviour - and the places where I'm safe from their efforts are becoming smaller and fewer...please dont let HOP become yet another place with these influences.

(just my opinion tho).

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:For those saying "I don't understand" - Basically, YouTube (or rather Google who own YouTube) are going to start putting adverts in their videos - the latest I heard would be semi-transparent overlays at the bottom of the screen (Like you get on some TV programs; "Coming up next...."), as pre/post-ads can easily be skipped.

I don't know what would be displayed when the video isn't being played - i'd guess it'd still have to show the middle-frame of the video so people know what they're about to watch, but it could be adverts.

Personally I don't see it as much of a hassle to follow a link into a new tab to watch a video as opposed to just viewing it in the forum, so option 2 for me.

3 points:
1) OWD - Why don't you like YouTube?

2) Malc - do you know if the adverts will be related to the videos (where possible), and thus could HoP adverts appear in spinning vids?

3) How about a general shift to JuggleTube.com? Any advertising seems to be pretty juggling-industry based and it's a nice little community-based site. You can still embed and the quality seems to be a little higher than YouTube.


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Oh - I haven't voted as I'd personally wait to see what was displayed when the video wasn't playing. A short 10-second overlay really doesn't bother me and in all fairness is the price you pay for free video hosting, especially given the mass-viewing/market potentials out there.

I just wouldn't want to see Drews video thread turn into a row of adverts unless the video's playing...



And aside from JuggleTube, there are several other video hosting sites which allow embedding and haven't (yet) decided to enforce adverts - just JuggleTube seems more community-oreitnated.


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide

Total posts: 2474
Posted:maybe put an option in the user profile to display the link to users who dont want to see the player and would prefer a link which can be turned on by users who do want to have the videos embedded into the page.

>What future can you see for YouTube?

i think the advertising will be subtle and wont affect the user experience anymore than the ads displayed with googles search results

>Would you like to see Flash adverts on our forums?

yep they are providing a free video hosting service i dont have a problem with an advert paying for that service if it is subtle.

>Do you think there will be a global change to remove the YouTube flash player from others sites and just link to their website?

Nope most people dont care enough imho


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:Something to think about as well is the affect on older & slower computers of a thread containing 20 YouTube embeds. I know in the past when I've surfed from other computers a couple of threads have crippled the browser and internet connection.

I'm fine with going to YouTube, it also allows me more access to my playlists, favourites, etc...


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:I love YouTube for the possibilities it generates, but I don't like adverts coming with it. I understand if you remove it, unfortunately I will not have too much choice when embedding videos to my site... frown

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by: Durbs




3 points:
1) OWD - Why don't you like YouTube?





1. It's not accessible to dial-up users

2. there used to be a thriving scene of video-sharing where people put up downloadable videos which others could save on their hard-drives: since you-tube, that's seriously diminished

3. the underlying ethos of you-tube is not video sharing- they actively modify their software to prevent people downloading (as opposed to streaming): the priority for you-tube is, instead, getting people to visit their pages i.e. marketing

Now it's understandable that you-tube do this- it's a business model with the aim being for them to make money.

And, of course, they have every right to do this; just as I have a right to not support them.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Dave, you use FireFox dont you? umm

Have you seen [url:https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3006]this[/url] awesome addon? biggrin

EDITED_BY: UnderControlOrFailure (1203972186)


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Yakumo
SILVER Member since May 2006

Yakumo

veteran
Location: Oxfordshire

Total posts: 1237
Posted:Is this vote IP locked? Spanners voted but I haven't, and it won't let me..

Blinded by Hyperlights, please donate generously grin

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Spanner
BRONZE Member since Feb 2003

Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...

Total posts: 2790
Posted:As far as I understand it, these adverts should only be on YouTube partners' videos (about 2000/3000 users) so your average spinner's video should remain unaffected but adverts may still pop up, for example, on the funny videos thread.

Although I find it more convenient to have these videos embedded, I wouldn't mind opening videos in other tabs if this meant that the HoP forums could remain ad-free smile

I don't know about the future of YouTube as a whole but with adverts taking up 20% of the space, possibly obscuring the video's own titles and interrupting 15 seconds into the video, I can see myself becoming very easily frustrated with them to the point at which I probably wouldn't bother with partner content at all.


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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Cantus
SILVER Member since Jul 2001

Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road

Total posts: 15965
Posted: Written by: Yakumo


Is this vote IP locked? Spanner's voted but I haven't, and it won't let me..

They generally are on HoP. If you log in tomorrow then you'll be able to vote smile or get an IP switcher wink Not that anyone would do that. But you could... ubbangel


"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide

Total posts: 2474
Posted: Written by: onewheeldave


1. It's not accessible to dial-up users


Was online video ever accessible to dial up users?

 Written by: onewheeldave


2. there used to be a thriving scene of video-sharing where people put up downloadable videos which others could save on their hard-drives: since you-tube, that's seriously diminished


I think that video sharing has increased now that theres free hosting available thats easy to use, whats more its searchable. If cool videos are hosted on youtube it means that if a really cool site like soton firespinning goes offline all its videos arnt lost to the community.

 Written by: onewheeldave


3. the underlying ethos of you-tube is not video sharing- they actively modify their software to prevent people downloading (as opposed to streaming): the priority for you-tube is, instead, getting people to visit their pages i.e. marketing


searching google for "youtube video download" brings up loooots of services to download their vids most of which require no technical knowledge, making it available to the masses who are so inclined to download.


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by: UnderControlOrFailure


Dave, you use FireFox dont you? umm
Have you seen [url="https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3006"]this[/url] awesome addon? biggrin



Thanks for the link- I'll checkit out.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by: ben-ja-men


 Written by: onewheeldave


1. It's not accessible to dial-up users


Was online video ever accessible to dial up users?



Yes. I've still got loads of the old vide from years back that I downloadedon dial-up. Plus, with them being downloadable, anyone could stick them on a CD and pass them on. Happy days- things have gone downhill since then smile

 Written by: ben-ja-men


 Written by: onewheeldave


3. the underlying ethos of you-tube is not video sharing- they actively modify their software to prevent people downloading (as opposed to streaming): the priority for you-tube is, instead, getting people to visit their pages i.e. marketing


searching google for "youtube video download" brings up loooots of services to download their vids most of which require no technical knowledge, making it available to the masses who are so inclined to download.



True- but, as you-tubes motivation is not video sharing, but more about getting people to visit their pages, they consistently update their software to thwart the downloaders.

Additionally, even when you do download one of their vids, the quality of the video is way below that of the old downloadable videos.

But whatever- if people are happy to put up with the marketing-driven ethos of you-tube and others like them, then fair enough.

Personally, I think you-tube is crap. If they want to provide free video hosting then, I'd have a lot more respect for them if, for each streaming vid, they provided a link for those who want to download it .


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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ElectricBlue
SILVER Member since Feb 2002

ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra

Total posts: 810
Posted: Written by: ben-ja-men


 Written by: onewheeldave


1. It's not accessible to dial-up users


Was online video ever accessible to dial up users?







Not so much un accessible but it can really hand up your system if you open a thread and a video automaticaly starts downloading. Where as if you can just open a thread and then chose click a link to download the video in to another window you don't get a heaps of videos trying to down load at once.


I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:Only if it's the youtube link though. when the video is embedded, you have to click the play button before it even starts to load.

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Posted:I try to avoid advertising as much as possible. I used to think that it didn't really matter if there was advertising around, that my mind could just block it out. I was wrong, it does affect you! So yea, i'd be happier if only hyperlinks were used.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:I voted.

(No, I'm not saying what I voted). No matter what the outcome, it might be worthwhile sharing it with YouTube.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:I voted thumbs down on the advertising...we're tortured by it enough as it is. I've never cared about embeddable videos and one thing I can't understand is ...Why use You tube when, clearly, Dailymotion is a better option. ?

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Fine_Rabid_Dog


Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...

Total posts: 10530
Posted:Hohum... I hate adverts, but love youtube.

Even if it was just some overlay, it'd suck.

But what would suck even more if an actual 30 second ad came on *before* the actual video. Lots of sites do that now and its truly a pain in the ass.

So I'm pretty much against allowing adds on HoP, even if its in some sneaky little way.

Take 'em down as they appear, I say.

smile


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: HOP

Total posts: 1002
Posted:Thanks all for the excellent feedback and comments.

I've added a download link now to our own flash videos in the library so they can be saved and viewed from your hard drives.
When I can I will work on the converter to also enable download copies as AVI.

Once the adverts arrive we will replace the embedded player with a link to the video on the YouTube website.


"May your balls always burn"

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