Forums > Technical Discussion > Looking to build a firestaff

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Rellizate
Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK
Member Since: 10th Feb 2007
Total posts: 719
Posted:Hello, I am going to build a new firestaff sometime in the near future and I have a few questions. First up, I want really really big flames, and along burn time. I was looking for 200mm wicks, but no where sells anything like that large. So I was wondering, what is the best way to make huge wicks that size, and how would I go about getting a fairly decent burn time? I was thinking of perhaps sewing two 100mm 1m long wicks together, and then wrapping them tube core way. Would that work well?
Also, my old staff has wooden dowls inside the aluminium where the wicks are. Is there any purpose if this other than to pervent heat transfer really? As I use 15 inch fire chucks with 65mm wicks without wooden cores, and I've never got any heat from them.
One last thing is will I be able to put wicks this size on my 140cm staff without the wicks burning the grip?


So basically, is the wood really needed, and what is the best way of making huge wicks (about 200mm), and will I be able to put wicks this size on my 140cm staff without the wicks burning the grip?

Thanks for all who read. biggrin


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Wooktastic
Wooktastic

the kicker of elves
Location: Dublin
Member Since: 10th Jan 2007
Total posts: 371
Posted:The wood is probably there so the screws have something to grip into.

Man is no more than a conduit for excrement to pass through.- daVinci

Jointly owned by BurdA and Tinypixie

Wielder of the voice of Patrick Stewart

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Fire_Moose
Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Member Since: 2nd May 2007
Total posts: 3597
Posted:im a newb but im on my second experiment staff.

the dowels are as stated above for the screws and to add weight to the ends.

i dont think you would even need to sew the two pieces of kevlar together couldnt you just wrap one wick normal and then wrap a second one right under that? essentially it would be one big wick.

as for whether or not it would burn the grip, i dunno


O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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Rellizate
Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK
Member Since: 10th Feb 2007
Total posts: 719
Posted:Hmm I guess I could, but that would be kinda tacky, and the second wick may slide up a bit to make something between a double staff and a long wicked staff.

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:no need to sew them together, just attach as you woudl normally, and when screwed into the wood they will hold well.

For increasing burn time, there's not many options that make a massive difference, but massaging PVA into the ends of the wicks can help prevent fuel from flying out whiole spinning.

It makes a noticable difference, but too much PVA can make the ends too hard after several burns, so massage a bit in to start with, and then put more on later if needed...


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Mynci
Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...
Member Since: 27th Apr 2005
Total posts: 8737
Posted:massive wicks biggrin I used to have 2 sets of 4.5 inch kevlar making 2 9 inch wicks on my old stick if you use 1m instead of 50 cm length wrapped around you can hold more fuel and get big burn-offs but even with a 155cm staff fire tended to lick towards the handle but I had a lot of grippy handle for contact.

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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Rellizate
Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK
Member Since: 10th Feb 2007
Total posts: 719
Posted:Hmm ok. Got a pic of that staff? I want to see how big those are, as I am having truble visualising. Did you put a wood core in your staff Mynci?

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Rellizate
Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK
Member Since: 10th Feb 2007
Total posts: 719
Posted:Sorry for double post. So having 1 meter wicking insted of 50cm gets it to hold more fule, which changes the burn time and the burn offs, but not the flame size right?

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Mr_Joe
Mr_Joe

Part-time genius

Member Since: 27th Aug 2008
Total posts: 59
Posted:Not quite. Flame size is basically about the surface area of the wick. The more area available for the fuel to mix and burn with the air the bigger the flame. So using longer lengths of wick to wrap will give you a fatter wick and thus larger flames.

If you're a real flame junky you could whip kevlar rope around the staff instead of flat wick, giving you a kind of 'Darth Maul' effect (like Rob's Uberchux), although I'm not sure what kind of burn time that'd give you.


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Rellizate
Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK
Member Since: 10th Feb 2007
Total posts: 719
Posted:Cool. Well I think i'm going to sew two 100mm wide 75cm long wicks together for each head. Not sure if I should use wood though. What do you reckon? I don't really do much contact, but still.

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Mr_Joe
Mr_Joe

Part-time genius

Member Since: 27th Aug 2008
Total posts: 59
Posted:Using screws into dowel to secure the wick is a much safer way of doing it, there's less exposed metal to heat up and they act to reduce the heat transferred to the rest of the staff. I did my firechucks that way instead of using wire as well.

Plus I'm sure you'll drift towards contact at some point, it's hard to resist :P


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Rellizate
Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK
Member Since: 10th Feb 2007
Total posts: 719
Posted:Yeah, well I do do some basic stuff, but nothing all that complicated. I was thinking that the huge wicks and the dowls might make it too heavy though...

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DarkFyre
DarkFyre

HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
Location: Palmerston North
Member Since: 4th Nov 2005
Total posts: 1965
Posted:Use a wood core coz :-
1 you can screw into it.
2 heat transfer.
3 weight and balance.
4 if you drop a staff without a core it tends to bend.
5 the dowl weighs practicaly nothing when compared to these wicks that you are talking of.
6 you just should even if you have no intention of doing contact.

On the matter of wick size, go for it the bigger the better and if you find that the flame keeps licking the main staff just remember to wipe off any exess fuel after each dip.


May my balls of fire set your balls on fire devil

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Rellizate
Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK
Member Since: 10th Feb 2007
Total posts: 719
Posted:Ok thanks. Well i've decided on two 200mm wide, 75cm long wicks, with 30cm dowls each end. Thanks alot people, i'll post pics when I finish it!

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simta
simta

compfuzzled
Location: hastings
Member Since: 11th Apr 2006
Total posts: 1182
Posted: Written by: Rellizate

I was thinking that the huge wicks and the dowls might make it too heavy though...



some might say that the heavier the better for contact


"the geeks have got you" - Gayle

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Rellizate
Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK
Member Since: 10th Feb 2007
Total posts: 719
Posted:Yeah I know, but I don't really do contact so...

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simta
simta

compfuzzled
Location: hastings
Member Since: 11th Apr 2006
Total posts: 1182
Posted:you soon will

"the geeks have got you" - Gayle

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Rellizate
Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK
Member Since: 10th Feb 2007
Total posts: 719
Posted:Lol really? I find it impossible, and i've already been spinning staff for ages. Also, don't you think the wick will give the staff enough momentom?

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simta
simta

compfuzzled
Location: hastings
Member Since: 11th Apr 2006
Total posts: 1182
Posted:ah its not impossible, im sure the wick will give it momentum if ya puttin as much as ya talkin bout

"the geeks have got you" - Gayle

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DarkFyre
DarkFyre

HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
Location: Palmerston North
Member Since: 4th Nov 2005
Total posts: 1965
Posted:I have to agree with Simta since I've been spinning a staff for yonks but recently I've started to pick up some contact tricks and i even realised that a couple of my old tricks where dumbed down contact moves.

Surly you can do a helicopter palm spin even if it doesn't last for very long it's still a contact trick.

Go on try it you know that you want to.


May my balls of fire set your balls on fire devil

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Fire_Moose
Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Member Since: 2nd May 2007
Total posts: 3597
Posted:i dont wanna steal anyones thunder but i just finished my Contact Staff version 2. 5.5 feet 7/8 inch diameter. i got 4 feet of 2.5 inch wide wick on each end and dowels in both ends. i havnt had a WHOLE lot of time to practise with it but so far its pretty good. I'm doing pinwheels faster then ever and the weight of the wicks really keeps teh contact going, i can just about do a conveyer. ill post some pics in sometime. for my second staff. i tihnk i did pretty good.

O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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Rellizate
Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK
Member Since: 10th Feb 2007
Total posts: 719
Posted:Cool ok.

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Rellizate
Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK
Member Since: 10th Feb 2007
Total posts: 719
Posted:Ok one question. In peoples opinion, what looks better? One 200mm wick on each end, or two 100mm double headed wicks?

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Rellizate
Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK
Member Since: 10th Feb 2007
Total posts: 719
Posted:Don't worry about that question.
One last one though:
DSo you reckon 52.5cm is a big enough gap between my 200mm wicks and the grip on my staff, cause I really don't want it melting the grip. :-/


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Mynci
Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...
Member Since: 27th Apr 2005
Total posts: 8737
Posted:50 cm should be fine just remember when not spinning to keep it horizintal so the flames don't lick up wink

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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Rellizate
Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK
Member Since: 10th Feb 2007
Total posts: 719
Posted:Sorry I measured really wrong. frown

I ment is 38cm big enough? Thanks.


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Mr_Joe
Mr_Joe

Part-time genius

Member Since: 27th Aug 2008
Total posts: 59
Posted:It might be alright if you use leather rather than synthetic grip, but you'll probably burn your hands if you hlod the staff still too long.

Option 2: Use a longer stick. I use a 160cm stick for contact (you know you wanna learn wink )


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Rellizate
Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK
Member Since: 10th Feb 2007
Total posts: 719
Posted:Hmm i'm going to use synthetic. What do you mean by "you'll probably burn your hands if you hlod the staff still too long."?



Also, this picture may help.



http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/6273/firestaffwf9.jpg



So my question is basically, what is the maxium length I could have the grip as without the flames melting the grip?



Thanks.


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Mr_Joe
Mr_Joe

Part-time genius

Member Since: 27th Aug 2008
Total posts: 59
Posted:Ahhhh right I though you meant you had 38cm gap between the wicks, gotcha. Even a 30cm gap between the wicks and grip is loads, you'll be fine smile You could probably drop the gap down to about 25cm/10" and still get away with it, more grip is good biggrin

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Mynci
Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...
Member Since: 27th Apr 2005
Total posts: 8737
Posted:ditto

I just use innertube, not as soft but very grippy wink


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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Rellizate
Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK
Member Since: 10th Feb 2007
Total posts: 719
Posted:Ok thanks a lot.

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Page: 12

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