Forums > Social Discussion > Does the US Army Deserve Praise?
Login/Join to ParticipateSILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom
Posted:
I was in another forum and I saw this message..
The US army is one of the most imoral uncareing and reckless armys around currently, they arnt all like that but it seems somewhere along the way the content control seems to have been skipped by the men in charge.
So I put in this post
Then this guy posts this...
To which I posted after much thought
God bless america, land of the free, land of the american dream, land of the smug! Until someone says something they dont like and they want to erase it, I guess there's a little Richard Nixon in all of them.
I hope this turns into a worthwhile post I think ive gone and missed 'The woman Who Thinks Like a Cow' because of it...dag-namit!
I was in another forum and I saw this message..
Written by:
BAGHDAD, Iraq — Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the Al Qaeda in Iraq leader who led a brutal insurgency that included homicide bombings, kidnappings and beheadings, was killed in an airstrike on a building north of Baghdad, U.S. and Iraqi officials announced Thursday.
The man whose been responsible for killing American Soldiers and the deaths of untold thousands of Iraqi civilians just ate 1000lbs of bombs, which was oh so graciously delivered to him by one of our F-16's.
Keep up the good fight guys. The world is a safer place today.
The US army is one of the most imoral uncareing and reckless armys around currently, they arnt all like that but it seems somewhere along the way the content control seems to have been skipped by the men in charge.
So I put in this post
Written by:
Now if we could just stop jar heads killing civilians, or shooting british troops. There was this time these geniouse americans were orderd to wait for british troops to relieve them and told to shoot anyone who comes near them until the british arrive. The english arrive in english vehicles, at the correct time, on the planned route, broadcasting over the radio announcing there approach. So what do the american troops do? Start shooting the British, huzah!
Then this guy posts this...
Written by:
On the interest of keeping things civil, I'll ask you to remove that, or have a DM do so, and we'll forget it was ever there.
This was made to honor those who are over there making the sacrifice that to few are willing to make. American, British, Australian, Japanese, and the rest of those in the coalition.
Not to attack them
To which I posted after much thought
Written by:
Wouldnt that be un-constitutional?
God bless america, land of the free, land of the american dream, land of the smug! Until someone says something they dont like and they want to erase it, I guess there's a little Richard Nixon in all of them.
I hope this turns into a worthwhile post I think ive gone and missed 'The woman Who Thinks Like a Cow' because of it...dag-namit!
Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat
'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?
BRONZE Member
Member
13 posts
Location: Boise, ID, USA
Member
13 posts
Location: Boise, ID, USA
Posted:
Well, It has always been a part of the military, but what I am saying is that you can't blame the soldiers who are over there for killing people....you can only blame our superiors for putting us there in the first place...also instead of blaming all of the americans, what about the other countries that are there.....they are killing too....and even the civilians are killing each other....I am not saying that I agree with the war...I am just saying that everyone is following their superiors and doing what they are told.....blame them
Written by: Stone
So sanderson82, when hasn’t obeying commanders and Government been part of being in the Military?
Well, It has always been a part of the military, but what I am saying is that you can't blame the soldiers who are over there for killing people....you can only blame our superiors for putting us there in the first place...also instead of blaming all of the americans, what about the other countries that are there.....they are killing too....and even the civilians are killing each other....I am not saying that I agree with the war...I am just saying that everyone is following their superiors and doing what they are told.....blame them
Life comes to a complete standstill sometimes.......that's when you kick it in the nuts and tell it to get back to work
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
Why not? Is there someone standing behind them with a remote control pulling the trigger? It's your choice to kill or go, and if you think your freedom is worth more than other people's lives, that's your decision, and your decision to kill.
So your superior picked you up by your collar and dragged you on a plane? Or was it more like you signed a contract and then were told to go, and didn't refuse because you didn't like the consequences?
Britain: not much support left for Blair, the majority of people opposed the war and many of them went and demonstrated. But "Bush and Blair" are seen as the 2 people leading this, with Blair being the driving force in Europe. People do talk about him, and he's mostly still in power because there doesn't seem to be much better available, sad as it is.
Spain: Aznar has not been re-elected, to a great part because he chose to join the war against about 90% of the population
Italy: Berlusconi joined the war both to creep up Bush's arse and to make himself more important. Has not been re-elected either. Prodi has been elected instead, partly because people were fed up by their fellow citizens getting kidnapped.
Poland: Joined, also to be in a better position for trade and stuff with America now that they've joined the EU
Germany and France: decided not to join. Got Americans boycotting their products because of that... maybe stupid ideas like that is why we keep talking about "America", while knowing that thankfully most Americans we encounter in Europe aren't that full of ignorance.
And by the way, noone on here blames ALL Americans!
I remember reading that not long after WW2 lots of Nazi criminals were imprisoned or killed. Guess how many of them were just following their superiors. Why not say that in the end it all came down to Hitler, who was everyone's superior?
Oh yes, because you have a choice who you vote for, who you sign up to work for, and to quit a job when it conflicts with your conscience. And the consequences for that, as far as I know, are much less severe in the US Army than they were in the "3rd Reich".
And do you think that the 9-11 suicide bombers were not following someone's orders, too?
And the guys trying to defend Saddam, and now preferring civil war over peace in Iraq, don't you think they're doing what someone told them?
What a bad excuse! (Nearly) Everyone has a mind, a conscience and, in most countries that sent people to Iraq, enough rights to choose their job, or say "no".
EDITED_BY: Birgit (1150942481)
Written by: sanderson82
Well, It has always been a part of the military, but what I am saying is that you can't blame the soldiers who are over there for killing people....
Why not? Is there someone standing behind them with a remote control pulling the trigger? It's your choice to kill or go, and if you think your freedom is worth more than other people's lives, that's your decision, and your decision to kill.
Written by:
you can only blame our superiors for putting us there in the first place...
So your superior picked you up by your collar and dragged you on a plane? Or was it more like you signed a contract and then were told to go, and didn't refuse because you didn't like the consequences?
Written by:
also instead of blaming all of the americans, what about the other countries that are there.....they are killing too....
Britain: not much support left for Blair, the majority of people opposed the war and many of them went and demonstrated. But "Bush and Blair" are seen as the 2 people leading this, with Blair being the driving force in Europe. People do talk about him, and he's mostly still in power because there doesn't seem to be much better available, sad as it is.
Spain: Aznar has not been re-elected, to a great part because he chose to join the war against about 90% of the population
Italy: Berlusconi joined the war both to creep up Bush's arse and to make himself more important. Has not been re-elected either. Prodi has been elected instead, partly because people were fed up by their fellow citizens getting kidnapped.
Poland: Joined, also to be in a better position for trade and stuff with America now that they've joined the EU
Germany and France: decided not to join. Got Americans boycotting their products because of that... maybe stupid ideas like that is why we keep talking about "America", while knowing that thankfully most Americans we encounter in Europe aren't that full of ignorance.
And by the way, noone on here blames ALL Americans!
Written by:
I am just saying that everyone is following their superiors and doing what they are told.....blame them
I remember reading that not long after WW2 lots of Nazi criminals were imprisoned or killed. Guess how many of them were just following their superiors. Why not say that in the end it all came down to Hitler, who was everyone's superior?
Oh yes, because you have a choice who you vote for, who you sign up to work for, and to quit a job when it conflicts with your conscience. And the consequences for that, as far as I know, are much less severe in the US Army than they were in the "3rd Reich".
And do you think that the 9-11 suicide bombers were not following someone's orders, too?
And the guys trying to defend Saddam, and now preferring civil war over peace in Iraq, don't you think they're doing what someone told them?
What a bad excuse! (Nearly) Everyone has a mind, a conscience and, in most countries that sent people to Iraq, enough rights to choose their job, or say "no".
EDITED_BY: Birgit (1150942481)
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
SILVER Member
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Posted:
I tend to agree. A soldier cannot blame Bush for actions the soldier agrees to do. By that reasoning, of course, one cannot blame Bush for “causing” terrorism, insurgencies, etc. If the American soldiers cannot be excused from their bad behavior by saying that Bush made them do it, neither can those who responded to Bush’s invasion with violence. Thus, we cannot fully agree with those who say things like:
and
and
It stands to reason that if American soldiers who are directly influenced by Bush cannot escape blame for their actions, terrorists indirectly influenced by Bush cannot either. Thus, one cannot say that Bush has caused the “insurgents” to commit acts of violence against innocent people. They could have chosen the way of peace, put a flower in the barrel of their gun, submitted to the imposition, and take advantage of the funds flowing into Iraq. Had they done so, they would have had a brutal dictatorship removed, the opportunity to install a government of their choosing, and we probably would have pulled all of our soldiers out by now.
I tend to agree. A soldier cannot blame Bush for actions the soldier agrees to do. By that reasoning, of course, one cannot blame Bush for “causing” terrorism, insurgencies, etc. If the American soldiers cannot be excused from their bad behavior by saying that Bush made them do it, neither can those who responded to Bush’s invasion with violence. Thus, we cannot fully agree with those who say things like:
Written by:
Oh and specifically on the subject of Mister Al Z; he was a nobody till the the coalition made him a star. The coalition is killing the products of its own brutality. To say this is what it should do misunderstands that it shouldn't be creating such monsters in the first place
and
Written by:
You pushed them, you bullied them, you killed them. Now they want to kill you in return.
and
Written by:
not forgetting in the case of both Osama, Saddam and their respective followers you paid them, you trained them, you armed them
It stands to reason that if American soldiers who are directly influenced by Bush cannot escape blame for their actions, terrorists indirectly influenced by Bush cannot either. Thus, one cannot say that Bush has caused the “insurgents” to commit acts of violence against innocent people. They could have chosen the way of peace, put a flower in the barrel of their gun, submitted to the imposition, and take advantage of the funds flowing into Iraq. Had they done so, they would have had a brutal dictatorship removed, the opportunity to install a government of their choosing, and we probably would have pulled all of our soldiers out by now.
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
?
yeah, a democratic style thats being imposed on them.
Written by: patriarch
take advantage of the funds flowing into Iraq
?Written by: patriarch
the opportunity to install a government of their choosing,
yeah, a democratic style thats being imposed on them. "but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
Pat, you could say that in the end it is the sum of individual decisions.
I do like Camus' and Sartre's existentialism, "you're nothing else but what you make yourself to be" (my sloppy translation from French, you might not find it as a quote on google). I know it has its limitations, like blind people won't be able to fly a military jet for quite a while, even if that's what they want to make themselves to be, and someone who doesn't want to pay taxes needs to break the law or move and face the consequences. But in a lot of situations, the principle holds in my mind, which is why I regularly get annoyed at people blaming the government for fat children and all that.
The basis for making an informed decision however is information. Now with most people joining in the army in the last 5 years at least I expect they have internet access and can make up their own mind.
For the ones that are
- not able to get access to information other than "Saddam is responsible for 9-11", unlikely as that seems
- in a horrible financial situation with the army looking like the only way out
- simply not smart enough to not believe what they hear all around them
the government, and the leaders, do have the responsibility to look after them, and make sure they know what they sign themselves up for.
Hell, most jobs that involve a risk, say in a lab, you have to sign hundreds of forms saying you know what you're dealing with, and yet Pele and others say soldiers sent to a war zone weren't informed properly? You can buy alcohol at 21 and go to war at 18? You don't realise how obviously people draw connections, like between Saddam and 9-11, but you get given a gun and the responsibility to judge life or death in an instant in a tense, dangerous situation?
But in my experience, those people I've listed would defend their superiors, quoting things they or the media said, and not say "blame our leaders". If you have the brains to sense something is a bit wrong, look to yourself first
Pat, you could say that in the end it is the sum of individual decisions.
I do like Camus' and Sartre's existentialism, "you're nothing else but what you make yourself to be" (my sloppy translation from French, you might not find it as a quote on google). I know it has its limitations, like blind people won't be able to fly a military jet for quite a while, even if that's what they want to make themselves to be, and someone who doesn't want to pay taxes needs to break the law or move and face the consequences. But in a lot of situations, the principle holds in my mind, which is why I regularly get annoyed at people blaming the government for fat children and all that.
The basis for making an informed decision however is information. Now with most people joining in the army in the last 5 years at least I expect they have internet access and can make up their own mind.
For the ones that are
- not able to get access to information other than "Saddam is responsible for 9-11", unlikely as that seems
- in a horrible financial situation with the army looking like the only way out
- simply not smart enough to not believe what they hear all around them
the government, and the leaders, do have the responsibility to look after them, and make sure they know what they sign themselves up for.
Hell, most jobs that involve a risk, say in a lab, you have to sign hundreds of forms saying you know what you're dealing with, and yet Pele and others say soldiers sent to a war zone weren't informed properly? You can buy alcohol at 21 and go to war at 18? You don't realise how obviously people draw connections, like between Saddam and 9-11, but you get given a gun and the responsibility to judge life or death in an instant in a tense, dangerous situation?
But in my experience, those people I've listed would defend their superiors, quoting things they or the media said, and not say "blame our leaders". If you have the brains to sense something is a bit wrong, look to yourself first
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
SILVER Member
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Posted:
Now they're claiming to have found 500 chemical WMDs.
https://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html
As if this would change anything. What they need to find is a nuclear warhead in Saddam's office with a note taped to it that says "DEAR OSAMA PLZ NUK GREAT SATAN AMERICA K THX - SADDAM."
Now they're claiming to have found 500 chemical WMDs.
https://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html
As if this would change anything. What they need to find is a nuclear warhead in Saddam's office with a note taped to it that says "DEAR OSAMA PLZ NUK GREAT SATAN AMERICA K THX - SADDAM."
SILVER Member
Your Face!
1,173 posts
Location: el paso, tx, USA
Your Face!
1,173 posts
Location: el paso, tx, USA
Posted:
Written by: ]I am just saying that everyone is following their superiors and doing what they are told.....blame them [/quote
During the Nuremburg trial it was stateed that "just following orders" was not a plausable defense since every soldier has the choice to not follow an order given if they see something moraly wrong with it.Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!
-Albert Einstein-
Peanut butter... It fills the cracks of the soul! -Paul Blart-
SILVER Member
Your Face!
1,173 posts
Location: el paso, tx, USA
Your Face!
1,173 posts
Location: el paso, tx, USA
Posted:
You ever heard the saying "you can't rape the willing". If the Iraqi's didn't want that we wouldn't be here helping them to build that.
Written by: Mr MajestikWritten by: patriarch
take advantage of the funds flowing into IraqWritten by: patriarch
the opportunity to install a government of their choosing,
You ever heard the saying "you can't rape the willing". If the Iraqi's didn't want that we wouldn't be here helping them to build that.
Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!
-Albert Einstein-
Peanut butter... It fills the cracks of the soul! -Paul Blart-
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
No Violently Tame. I’ve never heard that one. I think that statement is the biggest load of American arrogance I’ve read in a long while. No wonder the rest of the world scorns the US. Like you really believe the Iraqi’s wanted America to destroy their country.
Sheeze, give us a break
Written by:
You ever heard the saying "you can't rape the willing". If the Iraqi's didn't want that we wouldn't be here helping them to build that.
No Violently Tame. I’ve never heard that one. I think that statement is the biggest load of American arrogance I’ve read in a long while. No wonder the rest of the world scorns the US. Like you really believe the Iraqi’s wanted America to destroy their country.
Sheeze, give us a break
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
SILVER Member
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Posted:
Are you refering to the "saying" as being a load of American arrogance? ...it was my understanding that "consent" is usually a defense to a rape charge.
Of course he doesn't believe the Iraquis wanted their country destroyed. If he believed that, he would have said "If Iraqis didn't want that we wouldn't be here helping them to destroy that.
It is my understanding that while some countries require everyone to vote (a forced democracy), voting in Iraq is voluntary. Considering that they had better participation in their elections than we did here in America, it seems that they want to have a voice in how their government is run even more than Americans do.
Thus, one can hardly say that democracy is being forced on them.
Are you refering to the "saying" as being a load of American arrogance? ...it was my understanding that "consent" is usually a defense to a rape charge.
Of course he doesn't believe the Iraquis wanted their country destroyed. If he believed that, he would have said "If Iraqis didn't want that we wouldn't be here helping them to destroy that.
It is my understanding that while some countries require everyone to vote (a forced democracy), voting in Iraq is voluntary. Considering that they had better participation in their elections than we did here in America, it seems that they want to have a voice in how their government is run even more than Americans do.
Thus, one can hardly say that democracy is being forced on them.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
It's true. If they wanted us out they'd form some kind of armed insurgency and try and blow up our troops.
Written by: Violently TameWritten by: Mr MajestikWritten by: patriarch
take advantage of the funds flowing into IraqWritten by: patriarch
the opportunity to install a government of their choosing,
You ever heard the saying "you can't rape the willing". If the Iraqi's didn't want that we wouldn't be here helping them to build that.
It's true. If they wanted us out they'd form some kind of armed insurgency and try and blow up our troops.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
exactly.
regardless of whats happening now, the fact remains that the Coilation invaded the country and overthrew the leaders, then decided for the iraqis that they would have a democracy. even bush has said he wants to "spread demorcary". i dont understand how democratic nations from other parts of the world can expect to go and change the entire way of life of a country and expect everyone to graciously accept it, keep dreamin.
but now we're getting off topic.........
exactly.
regardless of whats happening now, the fact remains that the Coilation invaded the country and overthrew the leaders, then decided for the iraqis that they would have a democracy. even bush has said he wants to "spread demorcary". i dont understand how democratic nations from other parts of the world can expect to go and change the entire way of life of a country and expect everyone to graciously accept it, keep dreamin.
but now we're getting off topic.........
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
BRONZE Member
Member
13 posts
Location: Boise, ID, USA
Member
13 posts
Location: Boise, ID, USA
Posted:
Sometimes that is the only way for some people...I got a job straight out of high school, and couldn't afford to live on my own so I ended up back with my parents....I went to college, and got kicked out because I couldn't pay my bill, even with a job, so instead I joined the military...It is the hardest thing in the world to do....I wanna know how you would feel watching your buddy die......and then having to treat the person who shot him with respect.
Written by: Mr Majestik
mentality of a soldier = willing to sign your life to the hands of others is something i'll never understand.
Sometimes that is the only way for some people...I got a job straight out of high school, and couldn't afford to live on my own so I ended up back with my parents....I went to college, and got kicked out because I couldn't pay my bill, even with a job, so instead I joined the military...It is the hardest thing in the world to do....I wanna know how you would feel watching your buddy die......and then having to treat the person who shot him with respect.
Life comes to a complete standstill sometimes.......that's when you kick it in the nuts and tell it to get back to work
SILVER Member
Your Face!
1,173 posts
Location: el paso, tx, USA
Your Face!
1,173 posts
Location: el paso, tx, USA
Posted:
Written by: StoneWritten by: ]You ever heard the saying "you can't rape the willing". If the Iraqi's didn't want that we wouldn't be here helping them to build that.[/quote
No Violently Tame. I’ve never heard that one. I think that statement is the biggest load of American arrogance I’ve read in a long while. No wonder the rest of the world scorns the US. Like you really believe the Iraqi’s wanted America to destroy their country.
Sheeze, give us a break
American arrogance or not,I think you missed the point of that statement bro. If the iraqi's didn't want a democracy than they would have formed someother type of government and next time try "american government" instead of "americans". Myself along with hundred of thousands of other troops don't want to be here. do you think it was our(the soldiers)choice to go to this [censored] hole in the first place?Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!
-Albert Einstein-
Peanut butter... It fills the cracks of the soul! -Paul Blart-
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
Oh please. Your country (led by a dictator) gets invaded. The invading troops wipe out the existing governmental structure, gain control over most of your economy and say "We're here to "free" y'all and help you to make a democratic country".
What would YOU say to that? "I'm sorry, we don't want to be a democracy"? You think GW Bush would have tolerated that? I think not. Look at what happened in Palestine. Hamas get legally elected and suddenly there's all this fuss about it because no-one in the west really wants them in power. So what? They were elected democratically. You can't complain about that unless you want to be labelled hypocritical by any rational person.
Iraq would never have been allowed to form a government that was anything other than what America wanted it to have.
Written by: Violently Tame
If the iraqi's didn't want a democracy than they would have formed someother type of government
Oh please. Your country (led by a dictator) gets invaded. The invading troops wipe out the existing governmental structure, gain control over most of your economy and say "We're here to "free" y'all and help you to make a democratic country".
What would YOU say to that? "I'm sorry, we don't want to be a democracy"? You think GW Bush would have tolerated that? I think not. Look at what happened in Palestine. Hamas get legally elected and suddenly there's all this fuss about it because no-one in the west really wants them in power. So what? They were elected democratically. You can't complain about that unless you want to be labelled hypocritical by any rational person.
Iraq would never have been allowed to form a government that was anything other than what America wanted it to have.
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
Then I think you should have a useful perspective on one of the issues in this thread i.e.
Having made your choice to join the military and now having full experience of the actuality of military life in a conflict zone (I'm assuming from your statement that you have been based in a conflict zone and experienced the horrors that come with it?)-
1. reflecting on you as you were prior to joining up- to what extent, at that time, did you have a realistic understanding of what you were signing up to?
2. if you knew then what you know now, would you have still signed up?
Written by: sanderson82Written by: Mr Majestik
mentality of a soldier = willing to sign your life to the hands of others is something i'll never understand.
Sometimes that is the only way for some people...I got a job straight out of high school, and couldn't afford to live on my own so I ended up back with my parents....I went to college, and got kicked out because I couldn't pay my bill, even with a job, so instead I joined the military...It is the hardest thing in the world to do....I wanna know how you would feel watching your buddy die......and then having to treat the person who shot him with respect.
Then I think you should have a useful perspective on one of the issues in this thread i.e.
Having made your choice to join the military and now having full experience of the actuality of military life in a conflict zone (I'm assuming from your statement that you have been based in a conflict zone and experienced the horrors that come with it?)-
1. reflecting on you as you were prior to joining up- to what extent, at that time, did you have a realistic understanding of what you were signing up to?
2. if you knew then what you know now, would you have still signed up?
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
GOLD Member
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Posted:
To the point in question:
For carrying out the job they have to do, and the way that they're doing it and conducting themselves (this is the army in general), yes. For doing that job in the first place, not so much.
I guess my point here is that they shouldn't be there in the first place, but, given that they are, they're doing a pretty good job of it.
To the point in question:
For carrying out the job they have to do, and the way that they're doing it and conducting themselves (this is the army in general), yes. For doing that job in the first place, not so much.
I guess my point here is that they shouldn't be there in the first place, but, given that they are, they're doing a pretty good job of it.
"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA
"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie
SILVER Member
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Posted:
After being in doubt for a long time over whether I agreed with the decision to go into Iraq, and the goals of the mission, I am beginning to lean toward approval. At this point, I am inclined to praise the troops when they accomplish the goals of the mission (killing Al. Z., confiscating WMD’s, removing Saddam, etc.), and to punish them when they act against those goals (abusing prisoners, killing innocents).
We could repent, dissolve the government we have “forced” them to vote for, admit that the insurgents are morally superior and that we were wrong to remove Saddam, declare Saddam innocent, reinstate him as head of his sovereign state, revoke the UN resolutions and sanctions against the country, bring all of our overseas troops home and put them on our Mexican border, and elect Al Gore to focus on the issue that is truly the biggest threat to the world: Hillary.
After being in doubt for a long time over whether I agreed with the decision to go into Iraq, and the goals of the mission, I am beginning to lean toward approval. At this point, I am inclined to praise the troops when they accomplish the goals of the mission (killing Al. Z., confiscating WMD’s, removing Saddam, etc.), and to punish them when they act against those goals (abusing prisoners, killing innocents).
We could repent, dissolve the government we have “forced” them to vote for, admit that the insurgents are morally superior and that we were wrong to remove Saddam, declare Saddam innocent, reinstate him as head of his sovereign state, revoke the UN resolutions and sanctions against the country, bring all of our overseas troops home and put them on our Mexican border, and elect Al Gore to focus on the issue that is truly the biggest threat to the world: Hillary.
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
i honestly dont know how i'd feel, but i do know that its highly unlikely that i would get myself in that situation. i'd be on the street (and staying there) before i was in the army. suffice to say i would never be in the army.
Written by: sanderson82
I wanna know how you would feel watching your buddy die......and then having to treat the person who shot him with respect.
i honestly dont know how i'd feel, but i do know that its highly unlikely that i would get myself in that situation. i'd be on the street (and staying there) before i was in the army. suffice to say i would never be in the army.
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
BRONZE Member
Member
13 posts
Location: Boise, ID, USA
Member
13 posts
Location: Boise, ID, USA
Posted:
1. reflecting on you as you were prior to joining up- to what extent, at that time, did you have a realistic understanding of what you were signing up to?
2. if you knew then what you know now, would you have still signed up?
Well I realized exactly what I signed up for....when it happened....I knew that I was giving my life to the U.S. government.
And also to the second question....yes I still would have signed up knowing what I know now.....not only did I make great lifetime friends, but I also learned alot about myself...I learned that I can be independant....I can do things that I hope no other man or woman ever has to do....I have been in the middle of a war zone...and It is scary....I very much admire all of the men and women over there, from all of the countries that are fighting.....I just think, that everyone has their views and opinions.....and we can voice them.....but nothing is going to be done until the leader of Iraq says.....we are through with you and we want you out.....I worked head to head with some of the major Iraqi leaders over there, and from everything I have heard....they support us....all of us....and when they want us out....they will let us know....
1. reflecting on you as you were prior to joining up- to what extent, at that time, did you have a realistic understanding of what you were signing up to?
2. if you knew then what you know now, would you have still signed up?
Well I realized exactly what I signed up for....when it happened....I knew that I was giving my life to the U.S. government.
And also to the second question....yes I still would have signed up knowing what I know now.....not only did I make great lifetime friends, but I also learned alot about myself...I learned that I can be independant....I can do things that I hope no other man or woman ever has to do....I have been in the middle of a war zone...and It is scary....I very much admire all of the men and women over there, from all of the countries that are fighting.....I just think, that everyone has their views and opinions.....and we can voice them.....but nothing is going to be done until the leader of Iraq says.....we are through with you and we want you out.....I worked head to head with some of the major Iraqi leaders over there, and from everything I have heard....they support us....all of us....and when they want us out....they will let us know....
Life comes to a complete standstill sometimes.......that's when you kick it in the nuts and tell it to get back to work
BRONZE Member
Member
13 posts
Location: Boise, ID, USA
Member
13 posts
Location: Boise, ID, USA
Posted:
and that is completely your choice, but we aren't over there hoping that our friends get shot....hell I was even hoping that the Iraqi's didn't get wounded because I have to take care of them.....I hated and loved my job at the same time....I didn't really have to kill anybody unless they were endangering me personally....I loved that.....but I hated treating people that were trying to kill me just a minute ago...treating them as if they were my mother...because if I didn't I faced jail time....I am not saying that I didn't choose the life I did....I take full responsibility for it.....but if everyone had the same mentality as you then when a major situation arose.....we would have no military or government to take care of the problem.....So give credit where credit is due..
Written by: Mr Majestik
i honestly dont know how i'd feel, but i do know that its highly unlikely that i would get myself in that situation. i'd be on the street (and staying there) before i was in the army. suffice to say i would never be in the army.
and that is completely your choice, but we aren't over there hoping that our friends get shot....hell I was even hoping that the Iraqi's didn't get wounded because I have to take care of them.....I hated and loved my job at the same time....I didn't really have to kill anybody unless they were endangering me personally....I loved that.....but I hated treating people that were trying to kill me just a minute ago...treating them as if they were my mother...because if I didn't I faced jail time....I am not saying that I didn't choose the life I did....I take full responsibility for it.....but if everyone had the same mentality as you then when a major situation arose.....we would have no military or government to take care of the problem.....So give credit where credit is due..
Life comes to a complete standstill sometimes.......that's when you kick it in the nuts and tell it to get back to work
SILVER Member
Your Face!
1,173 posts
Location: el paso, tx, USA
Your Face!
1,173 posts
Location: el paso, tx, USA
Posted:
Why wouldn't he have and how do you force a whole country to do something if that's not what they wanted?
Why wouldn't he have and how do you force a whole country to do something if that's not what they wanted?
Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!
-Albert Einstein-
Peanut butter... It fills the cracks of the soul! -Paul Blart-
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Hrm... what happens if I push this button:
Does the Iraqi insurgency deserve praise?
(Oh dear. That can't be good.)
Hrm... what happens if I push this button:
Does the Iraqi insurgency deserve praise?
(Oh dear. That can't be good.)
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
by Violently Tame. Myself along with hundred of thousands of other troops don't want to be here. do you think it was our(the soldiers)choice to go to this
hole in the first place?
Violently Tame, how long have you been blaming other people for your own misfortunes?
The thing that is missing in the US military is discipline, and service.
What a rabbel!
by Violently Tame. Myself along with hundred of thousands of other troops don't want to be here. do you think it was our(the soldiers)choice to go to this
hole in the first place?Violently Tame, how long have you been blaming other people for your own misfortunes?
The thing that is missing in the US military is discipline, and service.
What a rabbel!
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
SILVER Member
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Posted:
Does it always have to come to personal insults? Tsk tsk.
Does it always have to come to personal insults? Tsk tsk.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
C'mere, NYC. I need to spank you now.
Written by: NYC
Hrm... what happens if I push this button:
Does the Iraqi insurgency deserve praise?
(Oh dear. That can't be good.)
C'mere, NYC. I need to spank you now.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
if that were true and everyone had the same mentality as me there would be NO "major situations". that argument cant be used to ask for credit.
Written by: sanderson82
.....but if everyone had the same mentality as you then when a major situation arose.....we would have no military or government to take care of the problem.....So give credit where credit is due..
if that were true and everyone had the same mentality as me there would be NO "major situations". that argument cant be used to ask for credit.
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
SILVER Member
Your Face!
1,173 posts
Location: el paso, tx, USA
Your Face!
1,173 posts
Location: el paso, tx, USA
Posted:
hole in the first place?
Violently Tame, how long have you been blaming other people for your own misfortunes?
The thing that is missing in the US military is discipline, and service.
What a rabbel!
Oh stone, you are so right! I joined the military and I knew I would be comeing over here, but sill, I don't want to be here. Furthermore I didn't even want to come here, yet I still joined the military in order to better myself and provide a better life for my family.It hurt's and confuses me to see you get so worked up for saying that I don't want to be here. So therefore, out of "american arrogance" and just to spite you I post the following.
Soldier’s Creed—Warrior Ethos
I am an American Soldier.
I am a Warrior and a member of a team. I serve the people of the United States and live the Army Values.
I will always place the mission first.
I will never accept defeat.
I will never quit.
I will never leave a fallen comrade.
I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained, and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills.
I always maintain my arms, my equipment, and myself.
I am an expert and I am a professional.
I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy the enemies of the United States of America in close combat.
I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life.
I am an American Soldier.
Written by: Stoneby Violently Tame. Myself along with hundred of thousands of other troops don't want to be here. do you think it was our(the soldiers)choice to go to this
hole in the first place?Violently Tame, how long have you been blaming other people for your own misfortunes?
The thing that is missing in the US military is discipline, and service.
What a rabbel!
Oh stone, you are so right! I joined the military and I knew I would be comeing over here, but sill, I don't want to be here. Furthermore I didn't even want to come here, yet I still joined the military in order to better myself and provide a better life for my family.It hurt's and confuses me to see you get so worked up for saying that I don't want to be here. So therefore, out of "american arrogance" and just to spite you I post the following.
Soldier’s Creed—Warrior Ethos
I am an American Soldier.
I am a Warrior and a member of a team. I serve the people of the United States and live the Army Values.
I will always place the mission first.
I will never accept defeat.
I will never quit.
I will never leave a fallen comrade.
I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained, and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills.
I always maintain my arms, my equipment, and myself.
I am an expert and I am a professional.
I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy the enemies of the United States of America in close combat.
I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life.
I am an American Soldier.
Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!
-Albert Einstein-
Peanut butter... It fills the cracks of the soul! -Paul Blart-
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
now THAT is the most f**ked up thing i've ever heard in relation to the military. i guard 'our' freedom and take 'theirs' away, i dont see how you can call it freedom when you oppress one person for the sake of another.
Written by: violentlytame
I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life.
now THAT is the most f**ked up thing i've ever heard in relation to the military. i guard 'our' freedom and take 'theirs' away, i dont see how you can call it freedom when you oppress one person for the sake of another.
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Let's say there's a man and he wants to kill you for no reason aside from the fact that he thinks it would be fun. Should we not "Oppress" him by putting him in jail so that you can be free to live?
When two people's freedoms overlap, somebody has to get oppressed.
Oppression is a good thing when the people being oppressed are bad, and a bad thing when the people being oppressed are good. Now all you have to do is get everyone to agree what is "good" and what is "bad" and we'll all live in harmony.
Written by: Mr Majestik
i dont see how you can call it freedom when you oppress one person for the sake of another.
Let's say there's a man and he wants to kill you for no reason aside from the fact that he thinks it would be fun. Should we not "Oppress" him by putting him in jail so that you can be free to live?
When two people's freedoms overlap, somebody has to get oppressed.
Oppression is a good thing when the people being oppressed are bad, and a bad thing when the people being oppressed are good. Now all you have to do is get everyone to agree what is "good" and what is "bad" and we'll all live in harmony.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Similar Topics
Using the keywords [army deserve praise] we found the following existing topics.
- Forums > Does the US Army Deserve Praise? [188 replies]
Show more..
© 1998 - 2025 Home of Poi
All prices converted to United States dollars using XE.com