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Forums > Social Discussion > I respect your point, but I don't agree with you.

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Str8Jakit


Str8Jakit

Dealing in Perception & Probability
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sun...

Total posts: 135
Posted:I respect your point, but don't agree with you. How hard is this for anyone to say? Most of us here have said it (or something close to it) in this forum. I end most of my debates with my friends with it. So why can't the majority of people, esspecially our "leaders", say it?

Think about most of the discussions/debtes you have had in you life. Some may have ended with one side changing views. but for the most part, they end in dead-lock. There's only so much anyone can say, about any one topic, untill you're just repeating yourself, and going around in circles. i for one hate repeating myself, and hate it when people do it to "stress a point." You're not stressing a point, you're adding stress to a situation.

So why not just say "I respect your point, but I don't agree with you" and end it? why do people feel the need to hammer their point of view into your head? What do you guys think, am I right for thinking this way, or am I just a dork for thinking people could be respectful in debates?

Reason I'm asking. I was having coffee with a friend of mine of over the weekend, and we got to talking about local issues. With out boreing you with the spacifics, let's just say that she could, or would, not let the topic end. We got to the point were I said I respect your point etc. But she kept pushing her point for the next hour......I love this girl to death, but if I would have had duct tape, I would have used it ubblol


Legal and illegal are a point of view. All that matters is morality.

If there's a shadow in your life, then there is also sunshine. Perception is everything.

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Str8Jakit


Str8Jakit

Dealing in Perception & Probability
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sun...

Total posts: 135
Posted:ok jeffhigh: if you don't have respect for the opinion or point, then i assume you mean you respect the person corret? if not let me know. so i pose this question to you: how can respect the person, but not their opinion? by not respecting their opinion, you are in turn, not respecting them....



i could see not AGREEING with their point/opinion, but to not respect a persons thought is to not respect them.


Legal and illegal are a point of view. All that matters is morality.

If there's a shadow in your life, then there is also sunshine. Perception is everything.

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Frederick the Reckless
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

Frederick the Reckless

Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
Location: Oregon

Total posts: 241
Posted:Written by: Str8Jakit

well i generalized. if i was debating with you on whatever; and it came to a point we were going round and round in circles, i would tell you i respect you opinion on ______ etc.


this clears up a lot of what i missed in your initial statement, thanks.


Frederick the Reckless,
Troupe Leader,
Fire and Steel

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:No, Str8Jakit, I don't think you;re being a dork in thinking that people could be respectful in debates, in fact I expect it.

Am I correct in assuming you were referring to discussions in a format such as these message boards and just using a personal conversation as an example? I think there's quite a bit of difference between the two formats. In a face to face conversation you have the option of asking someone WHY they just said what they did
whereas here... there can be a considerable time difference between the original statement, the why, and the answer.

If there IS a why, and an answer.

Quite often the why isn't asked, and that why is important in establishing perspective.

I think some of the problems we have around here stem from people not reading enough. Some posts need to be read and then reread and quite possibly thought about before being responded to. I don't mean to sound condescending, but sometimes I think there is just too much of a hurry to *get that post up there as fast as possible*

When it comes to this thread, I wondered why dream was so incensed by Tom's statement, but then I went for a walk and thought about it..and returned with a new understanding as to why dream might be upset. I won't outline it, because I could be wrong


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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: FireTom






Dave, please chill out - HAL was the computer in Kubric's 2001 space odysse... I said that because so far I really have enjoyed your posts and the very clear structure in which you are arcticulating your thoughts and opinions.... being a loving "Dave"... your above post was not fitting the profile I had of you... eek pardon me for having fetched one in the first place.



Now: you are rethorical very good and you walk ahead and have certain opinions and views, some of them very substancial and you backed them up with evidence and facts when you argue with someone. You know all the pro's and con's and you've heard it all before, so the possible backalleys have been taken from whoever already. Now - having learned and re-thought all your arguments, you shaped your argumentation to nearly perfect - impossible for someone getting out of the discussion with EITHER agreeing with you on the topic, OR knowing that one is wrong...



I do not want to dig out evidence the big tobacco corporations have put forth (that'd be against my core) and I do not have to pull these old indian chiefs smokin' back on screen, as well as I do not have to put forth my personally rendered experience and insights to tell you that your view on (tobacco) addiction is not suiting mine... I'm not trying to be in opposition here... I just happen to be...



offtopic Only because there have been not many studies about the practice of too much 5ex might lead to cancer of 5exual organs, it doesn't mean that using the reproductive organs over their biologically predespositioned extend may NOT cause complications in health and to some it actually does. Therefore one who is practicing reproduction without having to do so, is following a possibly lethal addiction... which (if the practice would actually be successful) also contributes to overpopulation and therefore the dawn of mankind. So STOP practicing! You know how it works already and STOP reproduction - we have an overhang already wink



I mean there are millions of possible addictions - you picked smoking to be your topic (for whatever reason in the first place) and you argue. meditate Maybe you have been addicted to tobacco yourself and it's still an issue you are working upon, maybe maybe... I'm not an online counsellor... shrug



offtopic



By not accepting that other people have different opinions on (this) subject(s) you are not respecting them, you're completely all over the argument and - as much as I understand - you say something like: you either eat it or you die... and this (to me) is almost fascist...



In a Universe where my neighbour can't even refer to the range of colours in a sunset (turquoise to orange) because he is "colour blind" - what are we arguing about anyways? Let's talk about how everyone looks at the same object and miraculously sees something completely different...



To me an argument is more the: Hey! Look what I found - this looks like a ______ to me... and the other goes: Nope! To me it looks very different, much more like a ______!



And then we get together and see the others point of view (MAYBE)... If not - shrug... but - hug...



By showing disrespect to others (opinions) we simply show disrespect to ourself - as it's our mind that creates this world blablabla and everyone is a mirror of ourself blablabla...



So why not just take the chillpill, like Jakit puts it and come to a civilised and mutual understanding, communication and respect?? angel



Disclaimer: I'm not trying to convince you that this is THE far more productive way of communication - I just point at history to proove it... tongue wink And even if you don't agree with me I still hug you biggrin





1. I don't need to chill, as I am already chilled smile the day I get stressed by online posts is the day I step back from the net for a while



2. I'm open to accepting that your 'HAL' references were not an insult, but simply an analogy- perhaps, as you are so keen on not offending people with your posts, you may take on board the fact that sometimes your words may appear a little rude, even if you intended no rudeness



Written by:


By not accepting that other people have different opinions on (this) subject(s) you are not respecting them, you're completely all over the argument and - as much as I understand - you say something like: you either eat it or you die... and this (to me) is almost fascist...







3. Let me make clear (again) that I do in fact accept that people have differing opinions- I just happen to think those opinions are erroneous.



I can (and do) supply good reasons and evidence for that. Nevertheless, wrong as those opinons are (IMO), I do accept that people have them.



4. You seem to be saying that in a world of many possible addictions, my focusing on smoking is arbitrary, and imply that my focus may be because I am an ex-addict with remaining issues. you wonder why, when sex can be addictive, I focus on smoking: here's why-



a. sex addiction does exist, but it is far less common and far less damaging than smoking (4 million people a year die as a result of their smoking addiciton)



b. I know a lot about nicotine addiction, have a lot of experience with it and, more importantly, I know effective ways out of it- in a world where damaging myths and untruths are more common than useful help on escaping the addiction; I feel that my words can help to ensure that less people fall victim to the smoking trap



c. In contrast, I don't know much about sex addiction, nor do I have much personal experience of it- I'm not particularly interested in spending my limited, and valuable time, in researching something I'm not interested in



In short, I post about smoking because I have so much knowledge and experience of it that I can back up what I say.



The reason I may appear so confident on a limited number if issues, is precisely because I stick to a limited number of issues that I either have a special interest in, or feel that I have a special aptitude for.



Written by:


So why not just take the chillpill, like Jakit puts it and come to a civilised and mutual understanding, communication and respect??







I have plenty of respect, and I think it's fair to say that my abilities to communicate are on a par with everyone here; I just happen to believe that communication and respect are entirely compatible with maintaining that certain viewpoints are incorrect.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Str8Jakit


Str8Jakit

Dealing in Perception & Probability
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sun...

Total posts: 135
Posted:stout: well put old man well put clap my favorite point is the WHY. with out asking this one thing, you have no preception of the other persons reason

dave: i wasn't telling anyone spacific to chill, just trying to chill the situation......so chill wink j/k


Legal and illegal are a point of view. All that matters is morality.

If there's a shadow in your life, then there is also sunshine. Perception is everything.

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:str8- I wasn't actually talking to you smile



Firetom told me to chill, and I was replying to him.



Of course, now you have told me to chill, so, for my response, I'll refer you to my reply to Firetom in my post above.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:Written by: onewheeldave
...I think it's fair to say that my abilities to communicate are on a par with everyone here...

Rubbish! You are easily the best poster.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: jeff(fake)

Written by: onewheeldave
...I think it's fair to say that my abilities to communicate are on a par with everyone here...

Rubbish! You are easily the best poster.



Sorry Jeff, i'll re-phrase it-

'...I think it's fair to say that my abilities to communicate are at least as good as anyone else here'

(Everyone else, take note- I can admit it when I'm wrong!)

ubblol


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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jeffhigh
GOLD Member since Oct 2005

Member
Location: Caves Beach, NSW

Total posts: 89
Posted:Yes str8jkt I do believe that you can respect a person, respect their right to hold an opinion, and have no respect at all for the actual opinion.

For exanple, if someone is spouting racist,sexist or religiously intolerant drivel, it is possible (though difficult) to respect the humanity in the person and have compassion for them in the past circumstances that have led them to this position.
I cannot however respect the actual point or opinion.

Jeff


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Sethis
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Written by: jeffhigh

...have compassion for them in the past circumstances that have led them to this position...



Sounds like pity to me, but I might be wrong. (If I am, disregard this next)

Can you actually respect someone you pity? I don't think you can, because the whole point is that you don't see them as an equal in circumstance, personality or whatever. You see them as somewhat less than you, and therefore you can't really grant them a measure of respect.

On the note of respecting the person and not the opinion, that's exactly what I feel when I debate with someone who is opposed to what I'm saying. I respect them for being intelligent and calm enough to debate rationally, even when I don't consider their point to be correct. Ergo I try to do them the service of being intelligent, calm and logical in my posts! wink ubbrollsmile

Sometimes I get it wrong though redface


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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jeffhigh
GOLD Member since Oct 2005

Member
Location: Caves Beach, NSW

Total posts: 89
Posted:No, when I use the term compassion, I do not mean pity at all Rather more the universal selfless love concept espoused by the dalia lama when he uses the term compassion.
Though I am not a follower his book made an impact
Jeff


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Str8Jakit


Str8Jakit

Dealing in Perception & Probability
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sun...

Total posts: 135
Posted:Written by: jeffhigh

For exanple, if someone is spouting racist,sexist or religiously intolerant drivel, it is possible (though difficult) to respect the humanity in the person and have compassion for them in the past circumstances that have led them to this position.
I cannot however respect the actual point or opinion.Jeff



when put in that prospective, i see your point.

dave: yeah sorry, didn't notice tom told you to chill too....redface goes with what stout put about reading the WHOLE post....oops


Legal and illegal are a point of view. All that matters is morality.

If there's a shadow in your life, then there is also sunshine. Perception is everything.

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:so my profiling wasn't that bad after all *phew*... biggrin

There have been many visionaries or genius(ses) who in their lifetime were even assaulted for standing to what they knew. Sometimes just after death their theories became fact and (like poor poets, painters and other artists) have then been rewarded postmortem. Outcasting anyone because they are actually speaking their truth is not helpful. If their opinion bases on erration, one can correct this, point out to the "proven facts" ones and base the argument upon them. If the other still resents - what to do? Call him a moron..... ? Well, how helpful would that be...? If I meet someone who is smoking and feels perfectly good with that - I wouldn't even start bothering him with my opinion about the topic. Do you get where I'm going here? But maybe I'm not getting where you are...

In a perfect world even morons can contribute to the whole picture in her unique way - which is as important as any other. And sure, hey I might be not able to respect the person, but can still agree on their point of view... but to me, disrespecting someone for whatever other reason than punishment is just a self defense mechanism... a justification for not to take someone for granted and domination. Teaches anger and fear - not love and understanding.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:I think we're all aware that good things can come from false opinions Tom- that doesn't stop those opinions being false.

Where respect is concerned, I personally don't see it as dependant upon opinion- I respect some people whose opinions I don't agree with, and I have little respect for some people who have opinions I disagree with.

Two of my best friends are smokers, and I both respect them, whilst considering some of their attitudes to smoking as being dubious.

They know that I consider the motivation for heavy/moderate long term use of nicotine as addiction, and they also know me well enough to not make the mistake that my opinion is in any way disrespectful or offensive to them.

It's starting to sound like you have a concept of respect that means that one can't respect an individual whose opinion you disagree with.

Fair enough, but my opinion is that I can both respect and disagree with a person.

Finally, I have no problem with smokers whatsoever, the fact that I believe that smoking in public buildings should be legislated against, and the fact that, whenever I see arguments promoting smoking I endeavour to expose what I see as the myths they contain; have no bearing whatsoever on my attitude to smokers.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:Opinion
1) A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof: The world is not run by thought, nor by imagination, but by opinion (Elizabeth Drew).
2) A judgment based on special knowledge and given by an expert: a medical opinion.
3) A judgment or estimation of the merit of a person or thing: has a low opinion of braggarts.
4) The prevailing view: public opinion.


An opinion cannot be wrong, it is an OPINION, not a fact



....we now return you to the HomeOfPedantry Top of the Threads latest number one hit


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:Dunc, in my opinion, you are absolutley right. smile

Str8Jakit, I dont always respect other peoples opinions. Racism for example... And coupled with my lack of respect for their opinion would often be a lack of respect for their person.

Conversly, often I find i have respect for a person based on the conviction of their opinion, even if diametricly (sp?) opposed to it. Its this respect that would encourage me to extend a measure of politness in a disagreement.


Love is the law.

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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:Written by: ado-p
Conversly, often I find i have respect for a person based on the conviction of their opinion, even if diametricly (sp?) opposed to it. Its this respect that would encourage me to extend a measure of politness in a disagreement.

In my opinion conviction isn't a virtue.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Opinions differ as to whether an opinion can be wrong- for example, the definition above mentions medical opinions- often two medical experts may have differing and contradictory opinions; and many would think it reasonable, if one of these opinons was later scientifically discredited, to say that the opinion was wrong.

A Google search on the phrase 'wrong opinions' yields 24,500 pages; so I think it's fair to say that, much as your definition above disallows the possibility of an opinion being wrong, it seems to nevertheless be in common usage as a concept.

That aside, I think most here understand what I meant by an opinion being wrong: for those who wish to adopt the above definition of 'opinion' as being the standard for this thread, simply substitute 'viewpoint whose validity rests on factual truth' or an equivalent.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:Yeah that's cool Dave, we all have our own opinions, even on what the word opinion actually means. 24500 pages may only show that a misrepresented concept is commonplace.

If two medical experts stated contrary opinions and later dicredited, it would be the fact that was wrong, his opinion about the details he disclosed in court would be neither right nor wrong. As it says in point 1) "A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof" thus once it is (un)proven it stops being an opinion and becomes a fact or misconception. An opinion can only exist where there is no proven answer. IMO

And I respect your opinion even tho I don't agree with you smile And now it's been discussed to death and we all know where everyone is coming from I think we can all, agree to disagree......except with those we agree with ubblol

andonandonandonandonandonandonandonandonandonandonandonandonandonandon


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Str8Jakit


Str8Jakit

Dealing in Perception & Probability
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sun...

Total posts: 135
Posted:i have to agree with dunc. at this point it seems that we are all going around in circles, stressing our opinions......so shall we let this thread die off?

Legal and illegal are a point of view. All that matters is morality.

If there's a shadow in your life, then there is also sunshine. Perception is everything.

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:I would imagine that, if some individuals want the thread to die off, that it would be a good idea for them to simply stop posting in it smile

If, despite that, the thread continues, then it's fair to conclude that other individuals wish for the thread to continue.

As for 'going round in circles, stressing our opinions'- if that is what this thread has become and if people continue to post in it, then maybe it's fair to conclude that maybe some people enjoy going round in circles?

As further evidence for that, I cite the existence of roundabouts in the majority of childrens playgrounds smile

Especially in the light of Duncs unveiling of the definitive defintion of 'opinion': we can now continue to promote our respective opinions in the safe and sure knowledge that they aren't 'wrong' smile


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Str8Jakit


Str8Jakit

Dealing in Perception & Probability
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sun...

Total posts: 135
Posted:ubblol alright......



but aren't you the one who originaly stated that opinions can be wrong? and if i memory serves, you stated it as an opinion. hence making your opinion wrong, but your statment right. wink <humming twilite zone theme> however, if opinions can't be wrong by definition then how is that so?


Legal and illegal are a point of view. All that matters is morality.

If there's a shadow in your life, then there is also sunshine. Perception is everything.

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:Opinions can blatantly be wrong.

i can't see anything in Dunc's definitions to say otherwise.

am i missing something?

"A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof"

well, beliefs and conclusions can both be wrong.

You say that if something has been proven wrong, then it's no longer an opinion? Nothing in the definition suggests that. But even if that were the case, that opinion, when held as an opinion, would have been wrong. When you disprove something it doesn't suddenly become wrong. It just means you've discovered that it's wrong.

Opinions are not equally correct\valid\worthy etc. Anyone who holds that opinion is, in my opinion, wrong.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:if it becamce fact that your opinion was incorrect, and you continued to state that opinion then you'd be wrong. Until it becomes substantiated, it is only opinion and is neither right nor wrong, being that it's opinion not fact.

Written by: Dave
As for 'going round in circles, stressing our opinions'- if that is what this thread has become and if people continue to post in it, then maybe it's fair to conclude that maybe some people enjoy going round in circles?

As further evidence for that, I cite the existence of roundabouts in the majority of childrens playgrounds



ubblol Although I'm not sure if it's dry witted irony of the highest order or just funny, it's still making me laugh biggrin


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Surely whether an opinion can be wrong depends on what it's about? An opinion based on your personal view of something can't be wrong, but an opinion based on facts can be proven wrong...

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:I personally still take a great deal of happiness from going on a roundabout in a kid's playground... maybe if more people did then we'd have more 40 year old men in hospital trying to think up an alternate explanation for their twisted ankle biggrin

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Str8Jakit


Str8Jakit

Dealing in Perception & Probability
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sun...

Total posts: 135
Posted:spirlax: but if it's an opinion based of facts, then wouldn't it be a fact?

Legal and illegal are a point of view. All that matters is morality.

If there's a shadow in your life, then there is also sunshine. Perception is everything.

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: simian


Opinions can blatantly be wrong.

i can't see anything in Dunc's definitions to say otherwise.

am i missing something?





For me, it was this part of Duncs quote-

Written by: Dunc


An opinion cannot be wrong, it is an OPINION, not a fact





I don't know why, and maybe I'm reading far too much into it, but from that, I got the impression that Dunc was saying opinions can't be wrong smile

My own view is that, in terms of common usage, the concept of a 'wrong opinion' is well established, as can be seen in some of the preceeding posts where people seem to be saying that, in their eyes, opinions can be wrong.

I think most here understand that when someone says 'X's opinion is wrong' that they're simply stating that they consider X to be making an incorrect claim.

For example- 'the Earth is flat'- according to Duncs definition, that opinion isn't wrong as-

Written by: Dunc

An opinion cannot be wrong, it is an OPINION, not a fact




nevertheless, in the context of an everyday conversation/debate (or maybe an on-line discussion on a spinning board?), I do believe that few would quibble if someone said 'that opinion (that the Earth is flat) is wrong'.

But, who am I to quibble, with my notoriously badly worded posts and limited reasoning ability.

smile


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Jackit ...not necessarily, because it might be an interpretation of the given facts!



wink


EDITED_BY: FireTom (1138904565)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Str8Jakit


Str8Jakit

Dealing in Perception & Probability
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sun...

Total posts: 135
Posted:ah; so you're saying an opinion could be based on perception of factual information....ok i can see that. but if it's an iterpretation of the facts, then it's not the straight facts, and agin falls under the title of opinion.

dave: yeah your post are horrible. can't understand any of your points. and the way you word them.....sad wink ubblol


Legal and illegal are a point of view. All that matters is morality.

If there's a shadow in your life, then there is also sunshine. Perception is everything.

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