Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Why sock poi? A rant in regards Infinite Hyperloops and other moves

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i8beefy2
i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA
Member Since: 24th Mar 2003
Total posts: 674
Posted:Ok, so this may be random whining, but why sock poi? Every video I see is someone spinning some colorful pair of sock poi. I gave up socks when doing hyperloops because they simply did not act like fire poi during more advanced moves. I now use regular dog chains with tennis balls for heads instead, which is exactly what I spin fire with (thinking being, of course, that its better to practice with what you're actually going to use than with something that I'm not). There is a much finer distinction of how you must move when spinning with chain than with the far more forgiving sock poi. Plus weight distribution, and all that.

I understand the "be able to spin with anything anytime" mentatlity... I CAN spin socks just as well as chains, but chains seem to be harder and thus more challenging (and more frustrating). I also understand that its easier to learn NEW things with sock poi because they are more forgiving.

So why sock poi? And now let me explain my frustration.... Infinite hyperloops. There has been a few videos of these now, always sock poi. Chains just don't seem to lock correctly to maintain them (not ball chain, refuse to us it, too dangerous for the crowd).

So. Can someone assure me that infinite hyperloops are possible with chains... meaning you can DO them, not that they are theoretically possible, so I can stop whining about how much I dislike the profusion of advanced sock poi spinners? For that matter, whip catches, suicides, and others, which require a bit more friction (which sock poi provide) also frustrate me. Everyone seems to oh and ah over these videos that are all sock poi and in the back of my head I'm just thinkin, "yeah, but try it with CHAINS...". Cause with chains most of the videos I see would not be anywhere near as clean as they are with socks, and even WITH socks it seems a great deal of "forgivingness" is necessary for those people doing them to pull them off.

Im not tryin to put anyone down, just my own frustration and observations here. IS anyone doing these cleanly enough to use chains / are the advantages that sock poi give you necessary for them?


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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: NYC




The internet is not about "seeking joy", it's about convincing others that your way of thinking is the correct one. Now pick one: Fire or Socks.









I've seen you post that thought, in different forms, sufficient times to suspect that you actually believe it.



I hope you don't- there's a lot of positivity on the internet too.



Where socks/fire are concerned, I suspect that, for many, fire pulls them into the art, but, the more they do it, the more they become aware of the undeniable negative aspects (general dirtiness and the toxic aspects of the chemicals used).



Some, like me, actually feel the effects on their health.



I still do fire, but not often, and, when I see posts which seem to assume poi=fire, i always try to say something (because it's a mistaken view).



One thing i will say though, to the post that claimed-



Written by: oli


however there are a few moves like throws and cathcs that are easily possible with socks and next to impossible with fire





it's not true, check out my vid on COL for proof- there I do releases, catches and catches into one-hand weaves, with both socks and fire-poi.



Though, with fire-poi, I think it's very important that you don't use finger loop style chains, as they do made catches very tricky indeed.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:I think there's 2 schools of thought with regar to poi spinners which can be summer up like this:

"Fire for show, Socks for a pro"

and

"Fire for heat, Socks for your feet"

smile

Sock poi aren't practice firepoi.

Everything can be done with all toys. I'm pretty sure i can keep tangles going with chains. It's not harder exactly, just different. The friction of the socks also causes a lot of problems when doing tangles, as does the stretchyess of them. Especially when they are damp.

Well there's my 2 cents, laters,

m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:Oh yeah, talk to Andy, he uses chains all the time

Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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fluffy napalm fairy
fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Member Since: 12th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3638
Posted:biggrin @ poi poetry

(though umm wondering how long it took to come up with your catchy little insight wink )


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:Written by: onewheeldave


Written by: oli

however there are a few moves like throws and cathcs that are easily possible with socks and next to impossible with fire



it's not true, check out my vid on COL for proof- there I do releases, catches and catches into one-hand weaves, with both socks and fire-poi.

Though, with fire-poi, I think it's very important that you don't use finger loop style chains, as they do made catches very tricky indeed.



are you saying not to use the loops to catch the poi with? or are you saying to use knots instead of loops altogether?

I've never had any problems with tosses, except for using socks when I'm not particularly paying attention and then the slinkiness of the socks just slip through my hands smile or doing multi-person tosses when you're not facing the person wink

check out our group's entry's in the last COL (and the one before that if you're so inclined), all the throw's are done with the looped poi that you see not so fond of. course, we don't catch it with our fingers going through the loops, but that'd be ridiculous wink


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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oli
not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...
Member Since: 24th Jul 2003
Total posts: 2052
Posted:Written by: onewheeldave

it's not true, check out my vid on COL for proof- there I do releases, catches and catches into one-hand weaves, with both socks and fire-poi.





okay i should i have said i find it next to impossible to do throws with fire poi, obviously its still possible with practise though... and thinking about it ive seen whip catches pulled off with fire, so yea.. it is all possible with fire.. i think the problem may be that the only time i spin my fire poi is when they are on fire at night.. and i cant see. i dont practise with them ever as i dont find them fun things to spin as they smell and are hard and pointy... unless they are burning in which case the fire makes them wicked fun... weavesmiley


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:my "Chutney Rope" fire poi don't have any metal bits, and have kevlar rope instead of chain. They act much more like socks than traditional chain link fire poi.

So i don't see why fire has to be so intrinsically associated with chain link, which are horrible rattly unpredictable beasts to spin IMO.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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jinx-raverbird
jinx-raverbird

member
Location: Cambridgeshire
Member Since: 12th Jan 2005
Total posts: 59
Posted:i think sox poi are much like rope poi. they dont hurt, can be done in a smaller space and are much more forgiving with mistakes. but they dont look as good unless u put lights on the ends.

thats my thorts any way, sorry 4 butting in (",)


that will b alrite!

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: fireNice




check out our group's entry's in the last COL (and the one before that if you're so inclined), all the throw's are done with the looped poi that you see not so fond of. course, we don't catch it with our fingers going through the loops, but that'd be ridiculous wink





OK, will do- what name are you on there as?



********EDIT*******

Don't bother- it's firetrinity isn't it?

*********************


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:*takes the following quote totally out of context and giggle for the next 5 mintues*

Written by: Misscorinthian
My husband is deeply in love with his socks

ubblol


Oh, and,
Written by: Oli
doing hyperloops with ballchain or wire is horrible


I was first going to shout "CRAP!" at you, then realised it wasnt. Sort of.
In my opinion, there is nothing better for hyperloops or airwraps than ballchain. Period. I belive this because I have found that the links between the balls lock onto each other when 'yperlooping, and will exit cleanly.
i have found that normal chain (dog leads et. al) doesnt feel as nice as ballchain.
I totally agree with you on the wire though. Poi should never be put on wire. Its rubbish - stalls go all "boingy" and ye kanny do hyperloops (cleanly) or airwraps. At least I couldnt when I had electroglos on wire.


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: ICoN

Look whos talking Mr. I wanna be a fire raver... smile



I was just trying to prove a point... speaking of fire hybrids, which one are you again?



Non-Https Image Link


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Tom_Shill
Tom_Shill

enthusiast
Location: Brighton
Member Since: 19th Dec 2005
Total posts: 213
Posted:Written by: simian

my "Chutney Rope" fire poi



Are they snakes or is there something in the rope that stops it catching fire? Maybe a stupid question, I dunno.

As far as socks vs. fire goes I don't have a preference. I definately don't agree with whoever said fire was for performance, or better suited to performance or whatever. I find spinning fire quite a personal, meditative experience. It's a multi-sensory thing that cuts you off from everything else, with the smell and the noise and the light, everything you sense is connected to the fact that you're spinning fire. I think socks are far more social, especially at more advanced levels. For stuff I've been practicing, mainly weave based stuff, I still need a lot of space, but the more advanced techy types all stand around together noodling away in the hall where I practice, which is nice. There's more of a communal feel to it, whereas fire is more one person standing on their own. I agree with the light problem too. If it's very dark and you're a fair distance from the spinner or your camera doesn't cope well with the bright bits in a dark environment then it's hard to tell what's going on. Especially with BTB stuff: if you can't see where the person is the it just doesn't work. I think it's definately a plus that it's easier to learn things with socks, I mean we don't go round proudly sending letters to eachother on the basis that it's more difficult than using a forum and therefore more dignified wink Incidentally, in WW2 the allies, or at least the British (and to be honest it doesn't sound like a very American thing to do) refused to use laser guidance for their bombs because it wasn't sporting. They missed. A lot rolleyes


Will those capable of telekinesis please raise my hand?

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MikeIcon
MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:Lol... I really need to see that movie... Then apply to be a part in the sequel smile

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:Written by: Tom_Shill

Written by: simian

my "Chutney Rope" fire poi



Are they snakes or is there something in the rope that stops it catching fire? Maybe a stupid question, I dunno.




I've got a pair too - they're just a rope with a large knot at one end for the burny part of the wick and a smaller knot at the other end as a handle.

The trick is to only dip the large knot and watch how long they soak for, otherwise the fuel wicks up the rope and you have to spin very, very fast to stop the flames licking around your hands.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Mr_Chutney
Mr_Chutney

Tosser
Location: Herefordshire
Member Since: 18th Apr 2003
Total posts: 1711
Posted:OFF TOPIC-

Whilst I would love to claim responsibility for these wondrous 'chutney' fire rope poi, I must admit I totally ripped off the idea from Sphercular Matt (Spherculist), so whilst the reference is kind, it is misplaced smile

Also, in a twist of irony, I've gone back to ball chain with cathedral wicks- but I may change again, who knows smile


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JayKitty
JayKitty

Mission: Ignition
Location: Central New Jersey
Member Since: 7th Nov 2004
Total posts: 534
Posted:Yay ball chain!

Don't mind me, just passing through.

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GeoffonTour04
enthusiast
Location: Oxford
Member Since: 30th Nov 2005
Total posts: 360
Posted:I was using glow poi to practice for fire poi before I realised that they're just different. Sock poi I don't really like how they look when they spin compared to lit ones, but I appreciate some of the crazy tech stuff you can do with em, & I'll probably have to learn em when I run outta moves.

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shen shui
shen shui

no excuses. no apologies.
Location: aotearoa
Member Since: 4th Jan 2005
Total posts: 1799
Posted:how about tangle-wrap-releases? hot wicks n chains all over your hands? hhmmmm. "oh i'd wear special gloves" another prop? less purity? double hand wraps would look lovely with fire, and all the more impressive because of the high chance of being burnt (or hurt, stupid metal)..

what came first, the sock poi or the fire poi?

every bit and piece has its place. neither is better or worse than the other. pros and cons abound in each camp. (darn damp socks!)

i dont think fire is the be-all and end-all like some people make it out to be. its just another medium. it seems that most people can do less with fire than they can with socks. does that make it better? does that make it worse?

what, we have different opinions? gasp!

(does anyone propeller with fire?)

i have far more fun with socks. isnt that what its all about?

thanks.


those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.

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TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:Chutney fire rope poi indeed ubblol

hahahahaha

I can wibble with my eyes shut, what was this thread about again?

If you can't do certain things with your fire poi it's because you have bad fire poi, you should just design ones that you can do what you want with. Like Fire Wibbles (aka chutney fire ropes, which btw i shared with chutney gladly, there was no riping off involved)

Fire wibbles can tangle and wibble just fine, so what's the problem. Oh, YOUR fire chains don't throw or tangle too well. Then make some better ones that can.

m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:ubblol

Getting to the other side smile

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Tom_Shill
Tom_Shill

enthusiast
Location: Brighton
Member Since: 19th Dec 2005
Total posts: 213
Posted:What do you make these chutney ropes with? The only kevlar rope I've seen is really thin for making monkey fists. They sound awesome tho, Quite fancy trying it.

Will those capable of telekinesis please raise my hand?

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animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:You should look harder then Tom... There're quite a few different sizes...

Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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i8beefy2
i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA
Member Since: 24th Mar 2003
Total posts: 674
Posted:Hmm these sound interesting to me too... I would think though, that they would be rather stiff? And would be limited if you like to shorten your poi by wrapping around your hand? What size rope wicking is it made from? Is it realistic to attach a different handle / metal ring or something on the end of the rope? How long does it take the rope to wear through because of a lot of tangles?

Personally, I think I'd rather have the chain right now... for ME, something like this to work would need a ring on either end of the "flexible, rope-not-chain" to attach heads and handles.

On a side note, I think infinite hyperloops are possible... just very hard to accomplish as you must spin the handles between your fingers while doing it (like when your blowing glass... and for those of you with a dirty mind, don't EVEN start...).


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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:Written by: i8beefy2
they would be rather stiff?


hmm, a little. Moreso than chain, less so than wire. About the same as a sock really.

Written by: i8beefy2
And would be limited if you like to shorten your poi by wrapping around your hand?


hmm, not really... i reckon its easier with rope than with chain.

Written by: i8beefy2
What size rope wicking is it made from?


erm... mine's probably 1.5cm diameter-ish. Have to ask bovrilmonkey, he made mine.

Written by: i8beefy2
Is it realistic to attach a different handle / metal ring or something on the end of the rope?


Well, you could do, but one of the main good points of the design is that you don't need to. Whats up with using braids or monkey fists?

Written by: i8beefy2
How long does it take the rope to wear through because of a lot of tangles?


eek
wear through? from tangles??? i've been tangling ordinary socks for years, and never had any wear through. If they don't wear out, i very much doubt kevlar rope would be affected.

Written by: i8beefy2
infinite hyperloops are possible... just very hard to accomplish as you must spin the handles between your fingers while doing it


that's crazy! i love it! biggrin


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:Written by: i8beefy2

On a side note, I think infinite hyperloops are possible... just very hard to accomplish as you must spin the handles between your fingers while doing it (like when your blowing glass... and for those of you with a dirty mind, don't EVEN start...).



Do your fire poi not have swivels at the handles? That's what they're for, you know...


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:LTC - i assume that he meant swivelling the handles manually to power the rotation, rather than just to accomodate it. All a bit offtopic anyway... shrug

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:This is more on-topic:



a reason why having fire equipment with no metal parts is a good thing smile


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:But metal parts = free make up for shows like star trek! I mean, don't they whack the actors a bit with some ball chain to make klingons?

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Suibom
Suibom

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Location: Oregon, USA
Member Since: 2nd Sep 2005
Total posts: 577
Posted:Generally, I've heard that you don't want your wicking to smolder.. so you want to put the flames out, rather than just letting them burn out, due to the fact that the wicking itself will burn rather than the fuel. Doesn't this impact a pure kevlar rope at the point where the rope has no fuel? Does this not compromise the integrity of the rope?

Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.

Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
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Total posts: 2629
Posted:Written by:

erm... mine's probably 1.5cm diameter-ish. Have to ask bovrilmonkey, he made mine.




Actually, the pair you have was made by the fair hands of the chutneymeister himself smile


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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