Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Why sock poi? A rant in regards Infinite Hyperloops and other moves

Login/Join to Participate
Page: 1234
i8beefy2
i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA
Member Since: 24th Mar 2003
Total posts: 674
Posted:Ok, so this may be random whining, but why sock poi? Every video I see is someone spinning some colorful pair of sock poi. I gave up socks when doing hyperloops because they simply did not act like fire poi during more advanced moves. I now use regular dog chains with tennis balls for heads instead, which is exactly what I spin fire with (thinking being, of course, that its better to practice with what you're actually going to use than with something that I'm not). There is a much finer distinction of how you must move when spinning with chain than with the far more forgiving sock poi. Plus weight distribution, and all that.

I understand the "be able to spin with anything anytime" mentatlity... I CAN spin socks just as well as chains, but chains seem to be harder and thus more challenging (and more frustrating). I also understand that its easier to learn NEW things with sock poi because they are more forgiving.

So why sock poi? And now let me explain my frustration.... Infinite hyperloops. There has been a few videos of these now, always sock poi. Chains just don't seem to lock correctly to maintain them (not ball chain, refuse to us it, too dangerous for the crowd).

So. Can someone assure me that infinite hyperloops are possible with chains... meaning you can DO them, not that they are theoretically possible, so I can stop whining about how much I dislike the profusion of advanced sock poi spinners? For that matter, whip catches, suicides, and others, which require a bit more friction (which sock poi provide) also frustrate me. Everyone seems to oh and ah over these videos that are all sock poi and in the back of my head I'm just thinkin, "yeah, but try it with CHAINS...". Cause with chains most of the videos I see would not be anywhere near as clean as they are with socks, and even WITH socks it seems a great deal of "forgivingness" is necessary for those people doing them to pull them off.

Im not tryin to put anyone down, just my own frustration and observations here. IS anyone doing these cleanly enough to use chains / are the advantages that sock poi give you necessary for them?


Delete Topic

TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:I don't know about infinate hyperloops, because I've never bothered learning them, although I'm fairly sure I've seen a couple of people doing them with fire poi. I could be wrong though.

However, not everyone spins with fire.
I can count the number of times I lit up last year on the fingers of one hand - it just doesn't appeal to me as much any more.
Also, the place I usually spin is inside a covered market, we're not allowed fire there anyway.
That's why I spin socks smile


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

Delete

onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: i8beefy2




I gave up socks when doing hyperloops because they simply did not act like fire poi during more advanced moves.









Written by: i8beefy2




Everyone seems to oh and ah over these videos that are all sock poi and in the back of my head I'm just thinkin, "yeah, but try it with CHAINS...".









There seems to be an assumption that spinning non-fire poi is merely a form of practice for fire-poi.



For many, it's not- as BovrilMonkey says, not everyone spins with fire.



A while back I put up a poll here to try and establish what proportion of spinners on HOP are primarily into fire.



The result was that most spinners here (who replied on the poll) do not put much emphasis on fire, and many never use fire at all.



One reason socks are more popular than chains, is that they work better for many styles- it's the same in most arts, people tend to use the equipment that works best.



Having said that, for most of the last year I ceased to use my sock poi, and instead used my home-made triple-wick chain poi.



I did so, not as practice for fire (the wicks are clean and unburnt, and will remain so), but because I wanted to see if they worked well for the kind of moves I focus on (throws/releases/one-hand meteor style moves).


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Did they work? smile

Delete

Mr_Chutney
Mr_Chutney

Tosser
Location: Herefordshire
Member Since: 18th Apr 2003
Total posts: 1711
Posted:Just to chip in- Nate does/ did some of the extended hyperloops stuff with chain and wicks (there is a small shot of him doing so in one of the Fal 3 vids, which is where I saw him doing it incidentally smile). So yes, it is possible and has been done smile Ballchain is a good idea though.

Delete

Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:I'm in it for the fire biggrin



All the unlit spinning I do I view as practice for fire and given the choice, I'll pick up my chains before my socks whenever I can.



But I do own socks, because they have a few advantages over chains. I have rice in my socks which makes them ideal for indoor spinning in cramped spaces, I can hit things like framed prints, and walls, without fear of doing too much damage.



I found socks were easier on the hands for doing buzzsaw practice



But I don't hyperloop, with anything,,,yet.



I don't consider myself as able to DO a move, until I can do it with firechains.


Delete

i8beefy2
i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA
Member Since: 24th Mar 2003
Total posts: 674
Posted:And indeed, my style is much more oriented toward fire (though I rarely light up much anymore either).



I still think sock poi are cheater poi. ubbloco



Ok fine, maybe I'll get some colorful tube socks and try and work out these infinite hyperloops... Im still interested in seeing someone do them with chains though. It seems to me that as chains legitimately get tangled and locked that spinning them in the way needed for infinite hyperloops isn't going to be easy.



And socks make whip catches way too easy too... smile


Delete

TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:Written by: i8beefy2

I still think sock poi are cheater poi. ubbloco




Yep, they are.
Chains are cheating too, as are cables, strings and anything else that's flexible.

Clubs are the only true path, anything else is just taking the easy way out of the wrist and hand movements wink


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

Delete

Mr_Chutney
Mr_Chutney

Tosser
Location: Herefordshire
Member Since: 18th Apr 2003
Total posts: 1711
Posted:Sock poi are the poi I gain the most satisfaction from as I can play with so many aspects of their form (ie you can play with them any way you like).



Fire is more performance oriented as I see it, and demands a different approach, thus I derive different pleasures from spinning fire prettily than I do from wibbling, tangling and generally arsing about with sock poi. Fire is absolutely not the 'real' or 'proper' poi spinning form. Such talk is pointless.



IMHO biggrin


Delete

JohnVenture
JohnVenture

Member
Location: Floating
Member Since: 23rd May 2005
Total posts: 42
Posted:Well on the other hand of your rant, a rough estimation of half of fire poi videos are ruined by one factor: lack of light.



Whilst some spinners manage to keep their body visible with either low rythm or a good camera, the lack of lighting is very hard to predict and can spoil an entire rush.



Sock poi, being a daylight activity, often save this -which will probably further your perception that Sockin' is cheatin'. However it also allow other spinners to better see moves, transitions, tricks, etc. whilst with a fire-only vid you usually don't see more than the shape of the body and very little of the hands.



For the record, I used to train with tennis-balls and dog chain as well, which I quickly gave up after my 3rd encounter with Mr 3b-weave-in-the-crotch. I then promised myself that even for poi training, 'I won't let anything harder than rice endanger my abilities to breed'


Delete

NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:This can be cultural as well. I find, as a gross generalization, here in the US poi is a tool for fire performace whereas in the UK it's used as a playful juggling prop.

I wrote a dissertation on it a while ago.

There are many differences between communities and choice of toys is certainly one of them. I think socks has actually helped the tech community rise faster that they would have without them.

I also found that practicing with DIFFERENT media actually helped me progress faster than with just the media I used to firespin. It seemed very counterintuative at the time, but it's true for me.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

JayKitty
JayKitty

Mission: Ignition
Location: Central New Jersey
Member Since: 7th Nov 2004
Total posts: 534
Posted:I play with different things just to play. My beamers are mostly used in place of fire, I use the chains and it's good practice. I've done hyper loops, but never those nifty infinate ones.

It's been a while, but there's no substitute for having a solid spin with my tails. I agree, different styles for different props.

Socks are easy to learn on, but I agree, for performances, they're kinda cheating, but most fire videos all you can see are moving lights, so socks are a better option for day time.


Don't mind me, just passing through.

Delete

MikeIcon
MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:I can do infinite hyperloops with my ball chain. Never used dog chain. I have a different method than what Ive seen on videos though. I do more of a tangled isolation to keep it going.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

Delete

misscorinthian
misscorinthian

old hand
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 27th Sep 2005
Total posts: 784
Posted:Ok, sorry but I really don't understand the argument here- so what if people use socks, for performances, hyperloops or whatever? Yes I agree that they do make a lot of moves feel "easier" but why is that a problem?

My husband is deeply in love with his socks, and yes, he hyperloops with them and not his other poi.... but he gets so much enjoyment and satisfaction from using them- just because I prefer not to use them, who am I to critiscise and question his choice of poi?

On the subject of performances, again, socks are not my favourite- but they have their own unique effect, and (non spinning) spectators seem equally impressed as by other props. How is using socks cheating?
.


XLenX

Devoted although mostly absent owner of the 1, the original... Asena

Delete

Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:

Let's relight this forum ubblove

Delete

Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:Written by: Beefy

Ok, so this may be random whining, but why sock poi?



Why not.

Why chains?

Why anything but twine wrapped around a piece of fruit and beaten against a rock?



Written by: beefy
Im not tryin to put anyone down



well you're certainly not picking them up either wink tongue


Written by: Beefy
IS anyone doing these cleanly enough to use chains / are the advantages that sock poi give you necessary for them?



Yes lots, infact the first time I saw Oli "Oli-ing" was with chains on fire.
The advantage of sock/cone poi are that they are more figiving, or, chains are less forgiving. Learning can be easier but that's hardly a bad thing. You can practise new ideas that you have for fire with socks/cones without the worry of smashing your face/balls/boobs or other such bad plane related injuries when trying new things.



Written by: Beefy
Everyone seems to oh and ah over these videos that are all sock poi and in the back of my head I'm just thinkin, "yeah, but try it with CHAINS..."



And I bet you feel oh so smug when you think it too, in the nicest way possible try losing some ego and enjoy the tricks. I'm sure there are tons of moves that have been learnt with socks/cones that have inspired you to learn more with chains so go with the flow smile Enjoy what you have, enjoy what you see. Don't dismiss something you see with socks that you can't do cuz you think your version with fire is better

People also oh and ah over fire, and they grimmace at the bad videos of both regardless of the toy used.

I haven't found one move that can't be done with chains that can be done with sock/cone pio. Manky old cable on the other hand......... ubblol



Without socks I never would have learnt half the stuff I have as I wouldn't have been able to spin inside my house away from the cold and rain and mud etc. And I don't rate fire/chains any higher or lower than sock/cone poi either, they're just different.......but I do think that fire spinning has learnt far far more from socks that socks ever will from fire

weavesmiley


Let's relight this forum ubblove

Delete

coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:those who think sock poi or tails are not performance oriented have obviously never seen a proper uv show.

the biggest spinning performance troupe that i know of do about half of their stuff with full uv costumes and uv tail poi, sock poi, flags and ribbons.

it looks at least as good as their fire sections.

imho smile


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Delete

oli
not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...
Member Since: 24th Jul 2003
Total posts: 2052
Posted:doing hyperloops with ballchain or wire is horrible, if you really want to make things difficult then use that, link chain (like normal chain that looks like chain) is cool for hyperloops though, and just as easy as socks.

however there are a few moves like throws and cathcs that are easily possible with socks and next to impossible with fire. but i think these moves also would not look thier best even if they were done with fire poi, id much rather see a horribly technical throwy ctachy sock poi session in the day light than the same thing done with fire at night, where its just gonna look extra confusing. (actually saying that, id love to see it done at night with fire, but only becuase i know how hard it would be, not nessesairly becuase it would please me on an aesthetic level...)

i like hyperloops with fire though, they look kinda magical..


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

Delete

Suibom
Suibom

addict
Location: Oregon, USA
Member Since: 2nd Sep 2005
Total posts: 577
Posted:</font><blockquote><font class="small">Written by:</font><hr />

i like hyperloops with fire though, they look kinda magical..





Alot of the stuff you do with fire looks kinda magical, oli (kinda.. hah.. understatement)..



*goes to watch sending signals to spaceships again.... drools...*



As far as on-topicness goes.. I agree with all of the above :P.. Some folks (like myself until recently) just don't have much of a desire to do fire, and therefore don't need, or care about, chains..


Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.

Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"

Delete

xavhan
member

Member Since: 30th Jun 2005
Total posts: 26
Posted:I can do a 360 hyperloop with fire!

Delete

_Aime_
_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings
Member Since: 2nd Jan 2004
Total posts: 4172
Posted:Written by: xavhan

I can do a 360 hyperloop with fire!



Good for you umm

Fire is over rated. Gets you dirty, makes you stink for days, and is just..I don't know. Like Bov said, I don't like it as much as I used too.

My socks are my babies smile


Delete

Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:Gets you dirty, makes you stink for days.... Ah the joys of kerosene. I probably wouldn't light up quite as often if I had to burn that censored either.

Delete

KaelGotRice
KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 1584
Posted:socks for the win!

To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

Delete

LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:I ubblove my socks...
I ubblove fire too...

for me it's usually two different styles: technical silliness for sock poi and trying to prance,ponce and dance for fire poi

I don't see why one style has to exclude the other, why not seek the joys available in both?


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

Delete

NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: LazyAngel

I don't see why one style has to exclude the other, why not seek the joys available in both?



The internet is not about "seeking joy", it's about convincing others that your way of thinking is the correct one. Now pick one: Fire or Socks.

Damn hippies. wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

MikeIcon
MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:Look whos talking Mr. I wanna be a fire raver... smile

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

Delete

_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:ubblol

Getting to the other side smile

Delete

Rovo
Rovo

(the person actually known as Chris Bailey)
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Member Since: 30th Jul 2003
Total posts: 544
Posted:I love spinning socks because I find them to be the most versatile of any kind of poi. I can bring them anywhere with ease, they don't hurt if you hit yourself as much as other toys, theres no fuel residue to worry about, plus I find there is a much larger range of moves that I can do with socks that just don't seem to work as well with fire and glowsticks. Spinning socks defintly isn't practice for fire for me. Spinning is practice for spinning for me, regardless of the toy. As for performances it depends on alot of things which kind of poi will best suit the performance. You should be able to dazzle an audience with any kind of poi. IMO

Stout- Don't get down on the kero. There is nothing better then seeing the look on the clerks face at the local gas station as a dreadie kid comes in the store around midnight, stinking of kerosene, covered in black soot marks, and buys a $1.38 worth of kerosene with change all because we need to have a few more goes before we can call it a night. smile


Peace, Love, Circles

Delete

i8beefy2
i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA
Member Since: 24th Mar 2003
Total posts: 674
Posted:Hehe, it seems a few people took my post WAY to seriously... I never understand how people don't pick up on playful sarcasm... I actually felt like I was puting myself down for not being able to do things with my chains that you do with your socks... silly me. smile

Thanks, NYC for picking up the thread of my poor humor... maybe its an American thing. smile

See, in theory anything you do with your sock poi I SHOULD be able to do with my chain poi. As things you do with chains by necessity need to be very clean to do (specifically for tangles), and all of the infinite hyperloop videos Ive seen seemed to involve lots of off-kilter transitions and such that would tangle chains terribly, it has been furstrating me to no end, though in theory I know it should be possible to do them cleanly enough for chains. Im practicing them more now as I've been assured they are possible to maintain cleanly with chains.

And I actually do spin socks sometimes, I just don't have any of those nice colorful tube sock contraptions you people have so I'm jealous. ubbloco

Oli: as for throws and catches, I've been doing these for ages with my fire stuff. Its easier for me actually because chains don't have the "bounciness" socks have, and are more predictable. They look cleaner too I think.


Delete

i8beefy2
i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA
Member Since: 24th Mar 2003
Total posts: 674
Posted:Oh, and for reference: I still don't think its possible with dogchain because dog chain "locks up" if it is spun around so much. Maybe with regular chains. Or if you continuously turned the handles WITH it like you were rolling a pencil inbetween your hands with your fingers...

Delete

KaelGotRice
KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 1584
Posted:Written by: i8beefy2

I still don't think its possible with dogchain because dog chain "locks up" if it is spun around so much. Maybe with regular chains. Or if you continuously turned the handles WITH it like you were rolling a pencil inbetween your hands with your fingers...



See my may 05 video for ballchain hyperloop reference


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

Delete

Page: 1234