Forums > Social Discussion > would you?
Login/Join to Participategoddess of all things slimey and an interchangeable insect!
2,443 posts
Location: nottingham - the land of opportunity lol!
2,443 posts
Location: nottingham - the land of opportunity lol!
Posted:
after along discussion with my friend last night we started talking about how we disagreed with religion because of what it does to people.
i dont know how many of you on this board are religious but my question stands as, if you had been told by a higher authority in your religion, say a prophet for example, to kill an innocent man would you do it?
i know i wouldnt, and i personally think that anyone who does/would is incredibly sick in the head. i suppose after all the suicide bombings this ideal crept up into my head but i would like to know how everyone else views it.
would you kill an innocent for your beliefs?
do you agree some one has the right too?
what do you think of people who would?
and at not such an extreme point but would you let your beleifs completely rule your life and the decisions you make?
after along discussion with my friend last night we started talking about how we disagreed with religion because of what it does to people.
i dont know how many of you on this board are religious but my question stands as, if you had been told by a higher authority in your religion, say a prophet for example, to kill an innocent man would you do it?
i know i wouldnt, and i personally think that anyone who does/would is incredibly sick in the head. i suppose after all the suicide bombings this ideal crept up into my head but i would like to know how everyone else views it.
would you kill an innocent for your beliefs?
do you agree some one has the right too?
what do you think of people who would?
and at not such an extreme point but would you let your beleifs completely rule your life and the decisions you make?
Shhhhhh! the boobies are trying to sleep.
owner and the property of noddy.
*i was a caterpilla last night 
* - libby_tuesday
SILVER Member
mmm...i feel all warm and fuzzy... 'no dude, that's your hair on fire'
355 posts
Location: Birmingham, Australia
mmm...i feel all warm and fuzzy... 'no dude, that's your hair on fire'
355 posts
Location: Birmingham, Australia
Posted:
only on weekdays...
nah, just kidding.
I always put rationality first.
Killing would be a last option for me, only if my life depended on it (like them or you situation). That's why I don't have a religion, cos i don't like to told how to live my life to the last word in a book. And to you Jehova's Witnesses out there, the answer is STILL NO, so stop knocking on my door! :P (no offense ppl, really)
only on weekdays...
nah, just kidding.
I always put rationality first.
Killing would be a last option for me, only if my life depended on it (like them or you situation). That's why I don't have a religion, cos i don't like to told how to live my life to the last word in a book. And to you Jehova's Witnesses out there, the answer is STILL NO, so stop knocking on my door! :P (no offense ppl, really)
It's better to burn out than to fade away
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom
Posted:
No because you dont need to strictly follow a set of rules to be religeouse, everyone sees there religeon in thier own way and they follow it the best they can, I dont believe your meant to take the things you read in the bible (or tora, or korahn ect) word for word, your meant to interprate it and follow it as a guide, religeon shouldnt be about doing this, doing that, say this, beleive that because thats not religion thats oppresion.
I wouldnt kill any innocent person (and I wouldnt kill any guilty person) because I dont beleive in that, if a higher authority told me to do it, all I would do is question there faith.
No because you dont need to strictly follow a set of rules to be religeouse, everyone sees there religeon in thier own way and they follow it the best they can, I dont believe your meant to take the things you read in the bible (or tora, or korahn ect) word for word, your meant to interprate it and follow it as a guide, religeon shouldnt be about doing this, doing that, say this, beleive that because thats not religion thats oppresion.
I wouldnt kill any innocent person (and I wouldnt kill any guilty person) because I dont beleive in that, if a higher authority told me to do it, all I would do is question there faith.
Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat
'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?
GOLD Member
Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
4,219 posts
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, United Kingdom
Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
4,219 posts
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, United Kingdom
Posted:
i have a long speech on this subject but i cant find it - i posted something similar in another thread though - not sure which one, its around here somewhere!
i have a long speech on this subject but i cant find it - i posted something similar in another thread though - not sure which one, its around here somewhere!
Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible
goddess of all things slimey and an interchangeable insect!
2,443 posts
Location: nottingham - the land of opportunity lol!
2,443 posts
Location: nottingham - the land of opportunity lol!
Posted:
well it seems everyone views this alot differently but i havent come across some one whom i think is sick in the head yet. if my parents ever said to me they'd kill and innocent person for god i would never have anything to do with them ever again.
i think alot of people dont realise how caught up in religion people get though. it worries me loads.
well it seems everyone views this alot differently but i havent come across some one whom i think is sick in the head yet. if my parents ever said to me they'd kill and innocent person for god i would never have anything to do with them ever again.
i think alot of people dont realise how caught up in religion people get though. it worries me loads.
Shhhhhh! the boobies are trying to sleep.
owner and the property of noddy.
*i was a caterpilla last night * - libby_tuesday
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom
Posted:
Thats true, but theres nothing you can do about that. All you can do is make sure you dont get mixed up in it yourself. I really hate it when people do get mixed up and say stuff like
"I'm killing in the name of god!"
Er yeah whatever, your useing religion as an esxcuse to kill and you will go to hell and I will go to heaven lol, your either
A: So retarded simple scentences like: you shall not kill, dont register with you
or
B: You probably havnt ever picked up a holly book in your life!
Thats true, but theres nothing you can do about that. All you can do is make sure you dont get mixed up in it yourself. I really hate it when people do get mixed up and say stuff like
"I'm killing in the name of god!"
Er yeah whatever, your useing religion as an esxcuse to kill and you will go to hell and I will go to heaven lol, your either
A: So retarded simple scentences like: you shall not kill, dont register with you
or
B: You probably havnt ever picked up a holly book in your life!
Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat
'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?
goddess of all things slimey and an interchangeable insect!
2,443 posts
Location: nottingham - the land of opportunity lol!
2,443 posts
Location: nottingham - the land of opportunity lol!
Posted:
ok thats true but then they have excuses such as things change with day and age and that other things that were said back then dont apply for now. its all really dumb.
ok thats true but then they have excuses such as things change with day and age and that other things that were said back then dont apply for now. its all really dumb.
Shhhhhh! the boobies are trying to sleep.
owner and the property of noddy.
*i was a caterpilla last night * - libby_tuesday
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom
Posted:
They dont have excuses, they just think they do. This might sound cold but you just gotta get on with your lives and know that your better than these people, I believe they will pay for thier crimes in the end and if they choose to do it, they pay the price ultimatley
They dont have excuses, they just think they do. This might sound cold but you just gotta get on with your lives and know that your better than these people, I believe they will pay for thier crimes in the end and if they choose to do it, they pay the price ultimatley
Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat
'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?
goddess of all things slimey and an interchangeable insect!
2,443 posts
Location: nottingham - the land of opportunity lol!
2,443 posts
Location: nottingham - the land of opportunity lol!
Posted:
yeah they do.
so whats peoples opinions on this kind of thing.
lets try and keep it all non emotionaly involved. i'll try too.
yeah they do.
so whats peoples opinions on this kind of thing.
lets try and keep it all non emotionaly involved. i'll try too.
Shhhhhh! the boobies are trying to sleep.
owner and the property of noddy.
*i was a caterpilla last night * - libby_tuesday
Dreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
Posted:
thou shalt not kill... but ... abraham and isaac anyone? religion twists itself in strange and nonsensical ways.
i don't see myself doing anything that strange, but admittedly some people "hear god" and are convinced their doing a good thing... I'm not going to be quick to judge in a particular situation, but in general religions which seem to be based on killing outsiders are surely not a good thing?
thou shalt not kill... but ... abraham and isaac anyone? religion twists itself in strange and nonsensical ways.
i don't see myself doing anything that strange, but admittedly some people "hear god" and are convinced their doing a good thing... I'm not going to be quick to judge in a particular situation, but in general religions which seem to be based on killing outsiders are surely not a good thing?
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,533 posts
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,533 posts
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA
Posted:
The nice thing about aethiesm is that it nobody ever has killed in its name.
.:waves around a little aethiesm flag:.
The nice thing about aethiesm is that it nobody ever has killed in its name.
.:waves around a little aethiesm flag:.
-James
"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"
stranger
80 posts
Location: Greece-Samos-Athens
80 posts
Location: Greece-Samos-Athens
Posted:
Firstly religion has nothing to do with god. Religion as it is in these days is a creation of people.There might be a God somewhere but I am sure that he must be sick of the things that took and take place in his name.
Firstly religion has nothing to do with god. Religion as it is in these days is a creation of people.There might be a God somewhere but I am sure that he must be sick of the things that took and take place in his name.
"For once there was an unknown land, full of strange flowers and subtle perfumes,
a land of which it is joy of all joys to dream, a land where all things are perfect and poisonous."
"Put out the torches! Hide the moon! Hide the stars!"
BRONZE Member
member
72 posts
Location: On the far left of sane, Ireland
member
72 posts
Location: On the far left of sane, Ireland
Posted:
No.
Religion is something which warps peoples minds if they are not smart enough to resist it. It should be designed to make you question all beliefs to some extent, to believe ultimately that though you think you are right, you could actually be wrong.
There are no certainties with any religion.
Nobody knows anything for sure.
But thousands act like they do.
And i know that thats faith, but i think its better if you just live your life well.
Im a pagan, but its always been my own interpretation of whats right and what wrong. Im far too pig headed to believe what other people tell me on that merit alone. And i reckon that if i've got it completely arseways then i'll get to the pearly gates or valhalla or wherever else you go and they'll say, well you picked the wrong one, but you did okay anyway...
No.
Religion is something which warps peoples minds if they are not smart enough to resist it. It should be designed to make you question all beliefs to some extent, to believe ultimately that though you think you are right, you could actually be wrong.
There are no certainties with any religion.
Nobody knows anything for sure.
But thousands act like they do.
And i know that thats faith, but i think its better if you just live your life well.
Im a pagan, but its always been my own interpretation of whats right and what wrong. Im far too pig headed to believe what other people tell me on that merit alone. And i reckon that if i've got it completely arseways then i'll get to the pearly gates or valhalla or wherever else you go and they'll say, well you picked the wrong one, but you did okay anyway...
I am not a bitch.
I am THE bitch.
And Im Miss Bitch to you.
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
If your government told you to kill people by dropping bombs on them, that are accurate (say to within 90%) so that you will only kill 10% innocent people, is that ok?
What if the percentage was lower, or the intelligence less accurate? Is there any difference between killing innocents for religion, or money or goverment? (like there is any difference anyway...). would you kill an innocent person who was standing between you an Osama bin Laden?
I dunno why everyone gives religion such a bad rap, when big business and 'democractically elected bodies' make decisions to kill innocents everyday.
If your government told you to kill people by dropping bombs on them, that are accurate (say to within 90%) so that you will only kill 10% innocent people, is that ok?
What if the percentage was lower, or the intelligence less accurate? Is there any difference between killing innocents for religion, or money or goverment? (like there is any difference anyway...). would you kill an innocent person who was standing between you an Osama bin Laden?
I dunno why everyone gives religion such a bad rap, when big business and 'democractically elected bodies' make decisions to kill innocents everyday.
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Posted:
"Religion is something which warps peoples minds if they are not smart enough to resist it."
isn't that a little harsh? perhaps even, dare i say, ignorant? i think you guys all seem to have a fairly extreem view of religion... there are alot of people in the world who're religious who don't go around killing people; people who feel faith or belief in whichever deity simply becasue they feel that he/she/it is there to look after them and always will be...
i'm agnostic, i don't feel any particular devine presence, but i don't feel any emptiness either, and i think i would if there wasn't someone or something there to look out for us... but perhaps there's not... i shan't make up my mind till i see it, and until then i'm happy for everyone to have their own beliefs and live their lives as they see fit, within reason of course (i was going to say within the laws, but there's definately some laws that i disagree with around, particularly with regards to gay rights but that's a whole other thread).
but in answer to your original questions, lauz:
no i'm not going to kill anyone no matter who tells me to...
i don't think anyone has the right too
i think i just covered what i think of people who would
and of course i let my beliefs rule my life, otherwise what would be the point of having them? but i won't let anyone else's beliefs rule my life.
"Religion is something which warps peoples minds if they are not smart enough to resist it."
isn't that a little harsh? perhaps even, dare i say, ignorant? i think you guys all seem to have a fairly extreem view of religion... there are alot of people in the world who're religious who don't go around killing people; people who feel faith or belief in whichever deity simply becasue they feel that he/she/it is there to look after them and always will be...
i'm agnostic, i don't feel any particular devine presence, but i don't feel any emptiness either, and i think i would if there wasn't someone or something there to look out for us... but perhaps there's not... i shan't make up my mind till i see it, and until then i'm happy for everyone to have their own beliefs and live their lives as they see fit, within reason of course (i was going to say within the laws, but there's definately some laws that i disagree with around, particularly with regards to gay rights but that's a whole other thread).
but in answer to your original questions, lauz:
no i'm not going to kill anyone no matter who tells me to...
i don't think anyone has the right too
i think i just covered what i think of people who would
and of course i let my beliefs rule my life, otherwise what would be the point of having them? but i won't let anyone else's beliefs rule my life.
"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie
"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
I believe that in Communist Russia where religion was banned by the govt. that people were tortured/put to death if they were discovered practising religion.
Written by: sparkey
The nice thing about aethiesm is that it nobody ever has killed in its name.
I believe that in Communist Russia where religion was banned by the govt. that people were tortured/put to death if they were discovered practising religion.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Member
68 posts
Location: London
68 posts
Location: London
Posted:
I don't think suicide bombers are messed up, I just think they're a bit sad. They obviously think they are right, and they're prepared to die and kill for what they think was right. That took a lot of faith, and I think it almost demand some respect because not everyone are willing to sacrifice for the right like they can. It is just sad that their idea of 'right' seemed so wrong to us.
Even in Christianity there're lots of contridictions on the policy of killing I think (not that I know the religion that well). For example on one hand in the 10 commandment it mentioned that killing is not alright, Moses did obliterate every tribe that stood in their way when going to the 'Promise Land' of Canaan.
I don't think suicide bombers are messed up, I just think they're a bit sad. They obviously think they are right, and they're prepared to die and kill for what they think was right. That took a lot of faith, and I think it almost demand some respect because not everyone are willing to sacrifice for the right like they can. It is just sad that their idea of 'right' seemed so wrong to us.
Even in Christianity there're lots of contridictions on the policy of killing I think (not that I know the religion that well). For example on one hand in the 10 commandment it mentioned that killing is not alright, Moses did obliterate every tribe that stood in their way when going to the 'Promise Land' of Canaan.
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
I'm not gonna get involved here coz i feel very strongly about religion. 1 comment. what has killed more people on this planet than anything? and i don't mean innanimate objects.....
anyone want to comment on a religion that has no martial history? christianity - crusades etc
bhuddists - (your pretty good) but got some hardcore monks
anyone else ????
I'm not gonna get involved here coz i feel very strongly about religion. 1 comment. what has killed more people on this planet than anything? and i don't mean innanimate objects.....
anyone want to comment on a religion that has no martial history? christianity - crusades etc
bhuddists - (your pretty good) but got some hardcore monks
anyone else ????
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
Deluded politicians sighting religion as a valid excuse for their actions?
Written by: Mynci
what has killed more people on this planet than anything?
Deluded politicians sighting religion as a valid excuse for their actions?
goddess of all things slimey and an interchangeable insect!
2,443 posts
Location: nottingham - the land of opportunity lol!
2,443 posts
Location: nottingham - the land of opportunity lol!
Posted:
all killing for a god or for another person for a belief i beleive to be wrong.
the only time i'd consider killing someone is if it was them or me right there right then.
all killing for a god or for another person for a belief i beleive to be wrong.
the only time i'd consider killing someone is if it was them or me right there right then.
Shhhhhh! the boobies are trying to sleep.
owner and the property of noddy.
*i was a caterpilla last night * - libby_tuesday
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
I wouldn't kill anyone unless someone gave me a sniper rifle and pointed me to Mr Bush.
Flames in PM form plz
Religion = Can of Worms. I've discussed it so many times that I just avoid it now, it's one of those issues that you can only debate in real life because there are so many different ways to mis-interpret and nit-pick. I personally think that the world would be better off without it, but I see it's impractical.
I wouldn't kill anyone unless someone gave me a sniper rifle and pointed me to Mr Bush.
Flames in PM form plz
Religion = Can of Worms. I've discussed it so many times that I just avoid it now, it's one of those issues that you can only debate in real life because there are so many different ways to mis-interpret and nit-pick. I personally think that the world would be better off without it, but I see it's impractical.
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
BRONZE Member
member
72 posts
Location: On the far left of sane, Ireland
member
72 posts
Location: On the far left of sane, Ireland
Posted:
Its my opinion. I think religion can make people crazy. Note the use of the word can. I dont think it makes everyone crazy. I think religion is a wonderful thing, and i am amazed by people who can hold on to a faith through thick and thin. Its something that i could not do. I was raised Catholic. At 12 my dad said that he'd done his bit for my religious education, and that the rest was up to me. He made me research other religions and tell him which bits were better and which were worse. Its a subject that has always interested me ever since, and i came to the conclusion that i have to follow my own religion, rules made, interpreted and enforced by me, and my conscience. And this works for me. But i wont try to make it work for anyone else. And i definitely wont force them to agree that my way is best.
But from the very first day, people have killed other people over their beliefs. I personally think this shows signs of immense stupidity, the willingness to believe your beliefs are infallible is an insult to not only yourself, but also to your deity. Thats the point of gods, they have the plan, thats why we can get it wrong. Im not talking about normal people, with normal religious outlooks, im talking about religious fanatacism which is dangerous to anybody involved. Look fanatic up in a thesaurus and see what else comes up. I guarantee you'll find crazy, nut, maniac, bigot, all things which i personally think also point to being mentally unhinged.
Obviously, you do not fall into the category i voiced my opinion on. Religion in itself can me a fabulous thing, it has created some of the most beautiful, long lasting monuments and art pieces of our time, things that will last long after the remains of war are turned to dust. I respect religion, but rabid isolationism quite rightly worries me.
As for being harsh, it may be so.
But ignorant? Ignorance is something i try to avoid, and looking at the subject in more depth, i think you may have misjudged me.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" Winston Churchill
Written by: FoxInDocs
"Religion is something which warps peoples minds if they are not smart enough to resist it."
isn't that a little harsh? perhaps even, dare i say, ignorant?
Its my opinion. I think religion can make people crazy. Note the use of the word can. I dont think it makes everyone crazy. I think religion is a wonderful thing, and i am amazed by people who can hold on to a faith through thick and thin. Its something that i could not do. I was raised Catholic. At 12 my dad said that he'd done his bit for my religious education, and that the rest was up to me. He made me research other religions and tell him which bits were better and which were worse. Its a subject that has always interested me ever since, and i came to the conclusion that i have to follow my own religion, rules made, interpreted and enforced by me, and my conscience. And this works for me. But i wont try to make it work for anyone else. And i definitely wont force them to agree that my way is best.
But from the very first day, people have killed other people over their beliefs. I personally think this shows signs of immense stupidity, the willingness to believe your beliefs are infallible is an insult to not only yourself, but also to your deity. Thats the point of gods, they have the plan, thats why we can get it wrong. Im not talking about normal people, with normal religious outlooks, im talking about religious fanatacism which is dangerous to anybody involved. Look fanatic up in a thesaurus and see what else comes up. I guarantee you'll find crazy, nut, maniac, bigot, all things which i personally think also point to being mentally unhinged.
Written by: FoxInDocs
but i won't let anyone else's beliefs rule my life.
Obviously, you do not fall into the category i voiced my opinion on. Religion in itself can me a fabulous thing, it has created some of the most beautiful, long lasting monuments and art pieces of our time, things that will last long after the remains of war are turned to dust. I respect religion, but rabid isolationism quite rightly worries me.
As for being harsh, it may be so.
But ignorant? Ignorance is something i try to avoid, and looking at the subject in more depth, i think you may have misjudged me.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" Winston Churchill
I am not a bitch.
I am THE bitch.
And Im Miss Bitch to you.
BRONZE Member
member
72 posts
Location: On the far left of sane, Ireland
member
72 posts
Location: On the far left of sane, Ireland
Posted:
The Cathars. As far as i can remeber they never killed anyone. They were entirely wiped out by the Inquisition back in the day when non-violence was dangerous to your health.
Written by: Mynci
what has killed more people on this planet than anything? and i don't mean innanimate objects.....
anyone want to comment on a religion that has no martial history? christianity - crusades etc
bhuddists - (your pretty good) but got some hardcore monks
anyone else ????
The Cathars. As far as i can remeber they never killed anyone. They were entirely wiped out by the Inquisition back in the day when non-violence was dangerous to your health.
I am not a bitch.
I am THE bitch.
And Im Miss Bitch to you.
analytic
503 posts
Location: bristol
503 posts
Location: bristol
Posted:
The Jains - complete non-violence, to the extent that [at least some] wear gauze masks in order to avoid accidentally inhaling insects, special sandals which are designed not to squash insects, and avoid agriculture
The Jains - complete non-violence, to the extent that [at least some] wear gauze masks in order to avoid accidentally inhaling insects, special sandals which are designed not to squash insects, and avoid agriculture
ture na sig
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
possible but without religion it may have been harder to come up with a viable excuse.
I believe most religions have crept from an individuals belief that SOMETHING greater had to have "created" everything because chance doesn't give them much solice... the error made was by giving that SOMETHING a name and therefore personifying it and thereby creating a god/s.
this gives birthto the institution of "the curch" giving power to a group of people who can demand money/obedience for vague promises of a "possible" (unsubstantiated) reward after death. I can see the good points of religion, laws etc. but also see how religion can turn it's back on it's own moral codes to achieve it's own ends.
religious war...ji'had etc.. "we are rightous we fight in the name of god" the battle cry for both opposing sides.
Written by: flidWritten by: Mynci
what has killed more people on this planet than anything?
Deluded politicians sighting religion as a valid excuse for their actions?
possible but without religion it may have been harder to come up with a viable excuse.
I believe most religions have crept from an individuals belief that SOMETHING greater had to have "created" everything because chance doesn't give them much solice... the error made was by giving that SOMETHING a name and therefore personifying it and thereby creating a god/s.
this gives birthto the institution of "the curch" giving power to a group of people who can demand money/obedience for vague promises of a "possible" (unsubstantiated) reward after death. I can see the good points of religion, laws etc. but also see how religion can turn it's back on it's own moral codes to achieve it's own ends.
religious war...ji'had etc.. "we are rightous we fight in the name of god" the battle cry for both opposing sides.
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
goddess of all things slimey and an interchangeable insect!
2,443 posts
Location: nottingham - the land of opportunity lol!
2,443 posts
Location: nottingham - the land of opportunity lol!
Posted:
wow this is deep. i didnt realise how much thought people have on this subject. maybe its because a lot of people i know dont really have a view on it.
thinking about everything thats been said its quite obvious that people have to kill people for other things too.
i suppose because people do not truly understand each other there can never be complete peace with or without religion.
when you can understand someone from the heart thats really knowing and understanding there views and concepts. but i still agree that anyone who is foolish enough to believe a man who says that god has told them that they should tell this person to kill someone is stupid, insane and i could never look at them with respect.
wow this is deep. i didnt realise how much thought people have on this subject. maybe its because a lot of people i know dont really have a view on it.
thinking about everything thats been said its quite obvious that people have to kill people for other things too.
i suppose because people do not truly understand each other there can never be complete peace with or without religion.
when you can understand someone from the heart thats really knowing and understanding there views and concepts. but i still agree that anyone who is foolish enough to believe a man who says that god has told them that they should tell this person to kill someone is stupid, insane and i could never look at them with respect.
Shhhhhh! the boobies are trying to sleep.
owner and the property of noddy.
*i was a caterpilla last night * - libby_tuesday
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
but who did they worship?
nuns have never killed anyone i know of but they still follow a religion that has.
that is the point....groups within a religion may well be peaceful but there are sects who DO kill in the name of the same god. i'm not saying every religious person is a killer. but nearly every major faith has people who will kill in the name of that religion.
OK maybe they wold do it anyway but it's the fact that people who DON'T want to harm a fly can be tarred by the same brush... Muslims are not terrorists.... but because of a few nutters we have race hate.
I can argue round in circles so gonna leave this thread forevr now.
ooo this topic winds me up...
thanks for not yelling at me 
Written by: Akashla
[
The Cathars. As far as i can remeber they never killed anyone. They were entirely wiped out by the Inquisition back in the day when non-violence was dangerous to your health.
but who did they worship?
nuns have never killed anyone i know of but they still follow a religion that has.
that is the point....groups within a religion may well be peaceful but there are sects who DO kill in the name of the same god. i'm not saying every religious person is a killer. but nearly every major faith has people who will kill in the name of that religion.
OK maybe they wold do it anyway but it's the fact that people who DON'T want to harm a fly can be tarred by the same brush... Muslims are not terrorists.... but because of a few nutters we have race hate.
I can argue round in circles so gonna leave this thread forevr now.
ooo this topic winds me up...
thanks for not yelling at me A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
addict
663 posts
Location: Glasgow
663 posts
Location: Glasgow
Posted:
Dream Theater - In The Name Of God
Lyrics by John Petrucci
How can this be?
Why is he the chosen one?
Saint gone astray
With a scepter and a gun
Learn to believe
In the mighty and the strong
Come bleed the beast
Follow me it won't be long
Listen when the prophet
Speaks to you
Killing in the name of God
Passion
Twisting faith into violence
In the name of God
Straight is the path
Leading to your salvation
Slaying the weak
Ethnic elimination
Any day we'll all be
Swept away
You'll be saved
As long as you obey
Lies
Tools of the devil inside
Written in Holy disguise
Meant to deceive and divide
Us all
Listen when the prophet
Speaks to you
Killing in the name of God
Passion
Twisting faith into violence
In the name of God
Blurring the lines
Between virtue and sin
They can't tell
Where God ends
And mankind begins
They know no other
Life but this
From the cradle
They are claimed
Listen when the prophet
Speaks to you
Killing in the name of God
Passion
Twisting faith into violence
In the name of God
Hundreds of believers
Lured into a doomsday cult
All would perish
In the name of God
Self-proclaimed messiah
Led his servants
To their death
Eighty murdered
In the name of God
Forty sons and daughters
Un-consenting plural wives
Perversions
In the name of God
Underground religion
Turning toward
The mainstream light
Blind devotion
In the name of God
Justifying violence
Citing from the Holy Book
Teaching hatred
In the name of God
Listen when the prophet
Speaks to you
Killing in the name of God
Passion
Twisting faith into violence
In the name of God
Religious beliefs
Fanatic obsession
Does following faith
Lead us to violence?
Unyielding crusade
Divine revelation
Does following faith
Lead us to violence?
Its meant to show both the hypocracy of the major religions and the idiocy of smaller sects or cults. I saw a vodeo of them playing this song live and they had big screens showing photos of the Branch Davidian massacre, Islamic suicide bombers, several massacres in various eastern countries and religous leaders giving sermons including the Pope and leaders of all other major religions. The overall message of the video show was that all this should stop. Its not a case of whether you should kill for religion but why you should as most of them have one commandment (either the 5th or 6th dependant on what flavour of religion you are) that reads like this: THOU SHALT NOT KILL. That is the shortest and simplest of the commandments and yet people can't seen to get it into their heads that even is you obey all the other commandments but kill someone for your religion you are still going to your judeo-christian 'hell'. I don't believe in any major religion as once that religion becomes institutonalized into a culture things go majorly wrong and we end up with the situation where the 'holier than thou' people start to group together and form smaller and more extreme cults (Branch Davidian anyone?).
I personally agree more with Wiccan ideology i.e. the threefold rule which basically states that whatever you do, good or bad, comes back to you three times over so say you pick up and carry a hedgehog across a busy road that is an act of kindness towards another living being that will be returned three times over. It might not be three hedgehogs helping me across the road but it will be something at some point in my life. So by my own beliefs if I kill someone all of the pain and suffering that I've inflicted on that person and those around them will also be returned three times over so if I were to kill to protect a friend I'd try to do it as quickly as possible so as not to make the other person suffer.
Dream Theater - In The Name Of God
Lyrics by John Petrucci
How can this be?
Why is he the chosen one?
Saint gone astray
With a scepter and a gun
Learn to believe
In the mighty and the strong
Come bleed the beast
Follow me it won't be long
Listen when the prophet
Speaks to you
Killing in the name of God
Passion
Twisting faith into violence
In the name of God
Straight is the path
Leading to your salvation
Slaying the weak
Ethnic elimination
Any day we'll all be
Swept away
You'll be saved
As long as you obey
Lies
Tools of the devil inside
Written in Holy disguise
Meant to deceive and divide
Us all
Listen when the prophet
Speaks to you
Killing in the name of God
Passion
Twisting faith into violence
In the name of God
Blurring the lines
Between virtue and sin
They can't tell
Where God ends
And mankind begins
They know no other
Life but this
From the cradle
They are claimed
Listen when the prophet
Speaks to you
Killing in the name of God
Passion
Twisting faith into violence
In the name of God
Hundreds of believers
Lured into a doomsday cult
All would perish
In the name of God
Self-proclaimed messiah
Led his servants
To their death
Eighty murdered
In the name of God
Forty sons and daughters
Un-consenting plural wives
Perversions
In the name of God
Underground religion
Turning toward
The mainstream light
Blind devotion
In the name of God
Justifying violence
Citing from the Holy Book
Teaching hatred
In the name of God
Listen when the prophet
Speaks to you
Killing in the name of God
Passion
Twisting faith into violence
In the name of God
Religious beliefs
Fanatic obsession
Does following faith
Lead us to violence?
Unyielding crusade
Divine revelation
Does following faith
Lead us to violence?
Its meant to show both the hypocracy of the major religions and the idiocy of smaller sects or cults. I saw a vodeo of them playing this song live and they had big screens showing photos of the Branch Davidian massacre, Islamic suicide bombers, several massacres in various eastern countries and religous leaders giving sermons including the Pope and leaders of all other major religions. The overall message of the video show was that all this should stop. Its not a case of whether you should kill for religion but why you should as most of them have one commandment (either the 5th or 6th dependant on what flavour of religion you are) that reads like this: THOU SHALT NOT KILL. That is the shortest and simplest of the commandments and yet people can't seen to get it into their heads that even is you obey all the other commandments but kill someone for your religion you are still going to your judeo-christian 'hell'. I don't believe in any major religion as once that religion becomes institutonalized into a culture things go majorly wrong and we end up with the situation where the 'holier than thou' people start to group together and form smaller and more extreme cults (Branch Davidian anyone?).
I personally agree more with Wiccan ideology i.e. the threefold rule which basically states that whatever you do, good or bad, comes back to you three times over so say you pick up and carry a hedgehog across a busy road that is an act of kindness towards another living being that will be returned three times over. It might not be three hedgehogs helping me across the road but it will be something at some point in my life. So by my own beliefs if I kill someone all of the pain and suffering that I've inflicted on that person and those around them will also be returned three times over so if I were to kill to protect a friend I'd try to do it as quickly as possible so as not to make the other person suffer.
Have faith in what you can do and respect for what you can't
BRONZE Member
member
72 posts
Location: On the far left of sane, Ireland
member
72 posts
Location: On the far left of sane, Ireland
Posted:
The same thing as everyone else. Their god.
It is incredibly rude to ask a simple question and then nit pick the answer because you didnt get the one you expected. There are many religions in existance which are non-violent and have never been. I mentioned one, as did Quiet. There are numerous others if you wish to ivestigate further.
The rest of your post is made up from common conjecture interspersed with complete fallacy and is even contradictory to itself. You tar everyone with the same brush while saying that it is wrong to do so. And I would advise researching your opinions on nuns before voicing them to the world.
To leave a discussion because you dont like it is fine, but you should never offer a rebuttal without giving others the chance to do so as well. Other people are guaranteed to feel at least as strongly as you. The best approach in the discussion of religion, is to agree that you disagree and bow out gracefully.
.
Written by: MynciWritten by: Akashla
[
The Cathars.
but who did they worship?
The same thing as everyone else. Their god.
It is incredibly rude to ask a simple question and then nit pick the answer because you didnt get the one you expected. There are many religions in existance which are non-violent and have never been. I mentioned one, as did Quiet. There are numerous others if you wish to ivestigate further.
The rest of your post is made up from common conjecture interspersed with complete fallacy and is even contradictory to itself. You tar everyone with the same brush while saying that it is wrong to do so. And I would advise researching your opinions on nuns before voicing them to the world.
Written by: Mynci
I can argue round in circles so gonna leave this thread forevr now
To leave a discussion because you dont like it is fine, but you should never offer a rebuttal without giving others the chance to do so as well. Other people are guaranteed to feel at least as strongly as you. The best approach in the discussion of religion, is to agree that you disagree and bow out gracefully.
.
I am not a bitch.
I am THE bitch.
And Im Miss Bitch to you.
SILVER Member
mmm...i feel all warm and fuzzy... 'no dude, that's your hair on fire'
355 posts
Location: Birmingham, Australia
mmm...i feel all warm and fuzzy... 'no dude, that's your hair on fire'
355 posts
Location: Birmingham, Australia
Posted:
Heh, you kinda opened pandora's box when you came up with this topic. I could see this going on for a long long time
Written by: lauz the caterpilla
wow this is deep. i didnt realise how much thought people have on this subject.
Heh, you kinda opened pandora's box when you came up with this topic. I could see this going on for a long long time
It's better to burn out than to fade away
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
Ok. it's not that. i don't want to be picky but WHO is the cathars god? Yes they were christians. albeit a non-violent sect, but they threatened the power of the roman catholic church with the funds (sorry again) they fleeced from local peasants and their association with the knights templar and were burned to death by.... yes christians.
I don't want to run away from an argument Akashla but I made a mistake of entering a debate i feel very strongly about and REALLY don't want to offend anybody.
(what was wrong about the nun statement..."that I know of" leaves open a point for disscussion and what was complete fallacy? you make a point with no referential back up...who are these religions with no violence?..all I ask for is a name because maybe I truely am ignorant of all the facts)
I agree with you and conceed not ALL religions are causes of death but nearly every single one has it's own power hungry agenda based on accrument of wealth or sacrifice but I can't think of 1 in particular. (possibly native american or bhuddist??) that doesn't at least request material goods or offerings for the promise of a better afterlife. In this day and age a new religion is called a cult and derided as a con. the only reason most large religions are not is because they were established long ago. What is the newest "recognised" religion? (I would like to know that one, truely)
I have to say it's been nice to discuss this with some people with bottle, who put forward fair and logical points and facts and don't ramble about "prove god doesn't exist etc"
I admitt my rant started in hot blood but we all feel strongly about things.
Ok. it's not that. i don't want to be picky but WHO is the cathars god? Yes they were christians. albeit a non-violent sect, but they threatened the power of the roman catholic church with the funds (sorry again) they fleeced from local peasants and their association with the knights templar and were burned to death by.... yes christians.
I don't want to run away from an argument Akashla but I made a mistake of entering a debate i feel very strongly about and REALLY don't want to offend anybody.
(what was wrong about the nun statement..."that I know of" leaves open a point for disscussion and what was complete fallacy? you make a point with no referential back up...who are these religions with no violence?..all I ask for is a name because maybe I truely am ignorant of all the facts)
I agree with you and conceed not ALL religions are causes of death but nearly every single one has it's own power hungry agenda based on accrument of wealth or sacrifice but I can't think of 1 in particular. (possibly native american or bhuddist??) that doesn't at least request material goods or offerings for the promise of a better afterlife. In this day and age a new religion is called a cult and derided as a con. the only reason most large religions are not is because they were established long ago. What is the newest "recognised" religion? (I would like to know that one, truely)
I have to say it's been nice to discuss this with some people with bottle, who put forward fair and logical points and facts and don't ramble about "prove god doesn't exist etc"
I admitt my rant started in hot blood but we all feel strongly about things.
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
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