Forums > Social Discussion > UK General election announced
Login/Join to ParticipateGOLD Member
Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
8,428 posts
Location: Wales
Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
8,428 posts
Location: Wales
Posted:
So they have finally confirmed that the general election in the UK will be on May 5th.
This means for the next month we are going to have nothing but electioneering and mud slinging.
Am I the only person that can't stand all the rubbish these Politicians sling about. Why can they not just tell us what they intend to do if they get into power. I'm sick to death of all these slanging matches. I would have more respect for them if they didn't do any of that [censored] and would be more likely to vote for them. Its getting to the point where you can't tell one party from the next because they all spin the same lines.
Is it any wonder so many people don't bother to vote at all?
So they have finally confirmed that the general election in the UK will be on May 5th.
This means for the next month we are going to have nothing but electioneering and mud slinging.
Am I the only person that can't stand all the rubbish these Politicians sling about. Why can they not just tell us what they intend to do if they get into power. I'm sick to death of all these slanging matches. I would have more respect for them if they didn't do any of that [censored] and would be more likely to vote for them. Its getting to the point where you can't tell one party from the next because they all spin the same lines.
Is it any wonder so many people don't bother to vote at all?
Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
hmmm... I think it is a wonder people don't bother to vote, after all, most of them do bother to complain about politics but don't do much to change what's happening. Look at Iraq where elections had a higher turnout than in most western countries, even though people went there at risk of being killed! People take their right to vote, demonstrate or get involved in politics far too much for granted.
hmmm... I think it is a wonder people don't bother to vote, after all, most of them do bother to complain about politics but don't do much to change what's happening. Look at Iraq where elections had a higher turnout than in most western countries, even though people went there at risk of being killed! People take their right to vote, demonstrate or get involved in politics far too much for granted.
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
"Is it any wonder so many people don't bother to vote at all? "
Totally understandable Skully... but also a wrong decision.
If noone votes, then Blair will get a bigger mandate to do as he wishes.
The problem (among many) with this next election is that there is no viable alternative. The Conservatives are a total miserable failure, and the Lib Dems are not going to make much headway...
However, it is important that everyone votes.
Go out and vote for the Greens or your local alternative or Independent candidate. Admittedly, they may not make any great sway against Labour, but the more people who vote for an alternative the bigger message of opposition it will send to Blair.
This election will contain more of the slanging matches and personality issues than in previous years, because UK politics is 'learning' from the US.
Expect more spin, more slanging and more dirty tricks.
"Is it any wonder so many people don't bother to vote at all? "
Totally understandable Skully... but also a wrong decision.
If noone votes, then Blair will get a bigger mandate to do as he wishes.
The problem (among many) with this next election is that there is no viable alternative. The Conservatives are a total miserable failure, and the Lib Dems are not going to make much headway...
However, it is important that everyone votes.
Go out and vote for the Greens or your local alternative or Independent candidate. Admittedly, they may not make any great sway against Labour, but the more people who vote for an alternative the bigger message of opposition it will send to Blair.
This election will contain more of the slanging matches and personality issues than in previous years, because UK politics is 'learning' from the US.
Expect more spin, more slanging and more dirty tricks.
Getting to the other side 
SILVER Member
currently mending
493 posts
Location: Bristol, New Zealand
currently mending
493 posts
Location: Bristol, New Zealand
Posted:
Sorry dude... I have to disagree totally... While voting Green/Respect/Local indie candidates would mean voting for someone stands for many issues I believe in, there's little point, as unfortunately we don't really live in a democracy.
A democratic society is based on the principle that all its inhabitants have an equal say in who their elected leaders will be. We on the other hand have an electoral system (1st past the post) designed to ensure political hegemony of the two principle parties (it was the Tories and the Whigs - now lib dems, who were superceded by Labour last century) creating the government and opposition setup of the house of commons.
To create a situation where the electorate doesn't feel disenfranchised - having a series of ideologically similar neo-libreral parties to vote for what we require is constitutional reform, the most obvious candidate being proportional representation.
PR has long been part of the Lib Dems manifesto, and its why despite their economic policy they'll get my vote, if we end up with a hung parliament (propbably the best possible outcome when you consider the alternatives of more new labour or the tories) and there's a Labour Lib-Dem coalition it's likely to be a stipulation for lib dem cooperation. This then entails that in futur elections more radical parties will actually gain parliamentary representation, voicing the ecological/anti-capitalist/anti-neoliberal concerns of a fairly large percentage of the population who currently feel disenfranchised by a centuries old system.
Interestingly, Labour toyed with the idea of PR in the late 80's early 90's (while in opposition) but after winning a massive commons majority in 97 they abandoned the idea as it was no longer necessary to help them gain power. Cunts.
Sorry... Rant over
Sorry dude... I have to disagree totally... While voting Green/Respect/Local indie candidates would mean voting for someone stands for many issues I believe in, there's little point, as unfortunately we don't really live in a democracy.
A democratic society is based on the principle that all its inhabitants have an equal say in who their elected leaders will be. We on the other hand have an electoral system (1st past the post) designed to ensure political hegemony of the two principle parties (it was the Tories and the Whigs - now lib dems, who were superceded by Labour last century) creating the government and opposition setup of the house of commons.
To create a situation where the electorate doesn't feel disenfranchised - having a series of ideologically similar neo-libreral parties to vote for what we require is constitutional reform, the most obvious candidate being proportional representation.
PR has long been part of the Lib Dems manifesto, and its why despite their economic policy they'll get my vote, if we end up with a hung parliament (propbably the best possible outcome when you consider the alternatives of more new labour or the tories) and there's a Labour Lib-Dem coalition it's likely to be a stipulation for lib dem cooperation. This then entails that in futur elections more radical parties will actually gain parliamentary representation, voicing the ecological/anti-capitalist/anti-neoliberal concerns of a fairly large percentage of the population who currently feel disenfranchised by a centuries old system.
Interestingly, Labour toyed with the idea of PR in the late 80's early 90's (while in opposition) but after winning a massive commons majority in 97 they abandoned the idea as it was no longer necessary to help them gain power. Cunts.
Sorry... Rant over
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
Nietzsche
SILVER Member
currently mending
493 posts
Location: Bristol, New Zealand
currently mending
493 posts
Location: Bristol, New Zealand
Posted:
And firepoise... its not so much US as Australian politics currently being rehashed by the tories.
Michael Howard appointed a guy called Lynton Crosby as his senior election advisor a couple of months ago...
Crosby is the Aussie credited for masterminding Aussie Tory John Howard's electoral successes, and Michael Howard has brought him in to try and repeat the trick... Crosby's campaign was largely credited for winning John Howard and election that most critics thought he'd lose.
This was done through sensationalising what had previoulsly been (relatively) minor issues such as asylum seekers (Australia now has some of the worlds toughest anti-asylum laws).
This is why we've seen the tories go on the offensive on issues such as gypseys and paedophiles in recent weeks.
The idiots are working together...
And firepoise... its not so much US as Australian politics currently being rehashed by the tories.
Michael Howard appointed a guy called Lynton Crosby as his senior election advisor a couple of months ago...
Crosby is the Aussie credited for masterminding Aussie Tory John Howard's electoral successes, and Michael Howard has brought him in to try and repeat the trick... Crosby's campaign was largely credited for winning John Howard and election that most critics thought he'd lose.
This was done through sensationalising what had previoulsly been (relatively) minor issues such as asylum seekers (Australia now has some of the worlds toughest anti-asylum laws).
This is why we've seen the tories go on the offensive on issues such as gypseys and paedophiles in recent weeks.
The idiots are working together...
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
Nietzsche
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I never buy into the "If you can't find the perfect candidate, don't vote" mentality. I honestly think it's a bit lazy.
There are many other issues to vote on. There is always a lesser of two evils.
In the US you can always leave one selection blank and vote on the rest.
If you don't vote, politicians SHOULDN'T take your views into account. If you vote for the other guy, or a minor party, then they can at least know that the vote was out there but they didn't get it.
Just my opinion for myself.
I never buy into the "If you can't find the perfect candidate, don't vote" mentality. I honestly think it's a bit lazy.
There are many other issues to vote on. There is always a lesser of two evils.
In the US you can always leave one selection blank and vote on the rest.
If you don't vote, politicians SHOULDN'T take your views into account. If you vote for the other guy, or a minor party, then they can at least know that the vote was out there but they didn't get it.
Just my opinion for myself.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
I get annoyed with that too.
The way they continually slag each other off, by saying how rubbish the other is, without actually saying what the are going to do.
Cos they have no idea of what they are going to do.
They have to get their foot in the door first... then think of stuff to sell you.
I get annoyed with that too.
The way they continually slag each other off, by saying how rubbish the other is, without actually saying what the are going to do.
Cos they have no idea of what they are going to do.
They have to get their foot in the door first... then think of stuff to sell you.
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
If enough of the people who think 'ahh Lib Dem is a wasted vote' actually go out and vote for them Labour and Conservatives might get a shock.
If it's gonna happen at all it'll be this year.
I personally have a very good Lib Dem MP and have no problems voting for her/them
If enough of the people who think 'ahh Lib Dem is a wasted vote' actually go out and vote for them Labour and Conservatives might get a shock.
If it's gonna happen at all it'll be this year.
I personally have a very good Lib Dem MP and have no problems voting for her/them
Geologists do it in the dirt................ 
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
ditto the fairy
cole. x
ditto the fairy
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
aye.
I would vote Lib Dem, just cos it isnt Labour or Conservative - I havent a clue who the LibDem candiate for Canterbury is...
Or am I registered back in London?
aye.
I would vote Lib Dem, just cos it isnt Labour or Conservative - I havent a clue who the LibDem candiate for Canterbury is...
Or am I registered back in London?
SILVER Member
old hand
853 posts
Location: Behind you...
old hand
853 posts
Location: Behind you...
Posted:
I agree with Dream. Democracy in this country is a bit of a joke. Also my politics student friend assures me that not voting is also a highly significant political act. Who wants to vote in an election that only ever appeals and reaches out to the lowest common denominator through dirty campaigns? It's not a case of 'can't find the perfect candidate so not voting', I have no faith in the system of voting itself, the assemblage of Parliament or any particular party for that matter. These people are strangers. Who get paid lots of money. And I don't trust any of them. I mean, how can you judge the lesser of two evils if both of them are telling lies? Although I am grateful for my rights, all of my rights, I have never been able to bring myself to vote. It feels like giving in to the Matrix or something, like they're tricking us into believing we have a say when it's just an illusion. Sorry this is so negative, I really can't help the way I feel. I know many of you will disagree, that's fine.
I agree with Dream. Democracy in this country is a bit of a joke. Also my politics student friend assures me that not voting is also a highly significant political act. Who wants to vote in an election that only ever appeals and reaches out to the lowest common denominator through dirty campaigns? It's not a case of 'can't find the perfect candidate so not voting', I have no faith in the system of voting itself, the assemblage of Parliament or any particular party for that matter. These people are strangers. Who get paid lots of money. And I don't trust any of them. I mean, how can you judge the lesser of two evils if both of them are telling lies? Although I am grateful for my rights, all of my rights, I have never been able to bring myself to vote. It feels like giving in to the Matrix or something, like they're tricking us into believing we have a say when it's just an illusion. Sorry this is so negative, I really can't help the way I feel. I know many of you will disagree, that's fine.
Idolized by Aurinoko
Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....
Bob Dylan
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
yep.
its sad that there is no distinction between abstinance and apathy.
compulsory voting combined with proportional representation would solve this of course but like dream said, thats not gonna happen anytime soon...
cole. x
yep.
its sad that there is no distinction between abstinance and apathy.
compulsory voting combined with proportional representation would solve this of course but like dream said, thats not gonna happen anytime soon...
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
Pooh-Bah
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
Posted:
ditto what ppl said up there somewhere....
i vote lib dem or green depending on who i can vote for. If not then i spoil the paper. there's no way anyone else is getting my vote.
IT'S MINE DAMMIT AND YOU CAN'T HAVE IT!!! so moo to you tony blair.
ditto what ppl said up there somewhere....
i vote lib dem or green depending on who i can vote for. If not then i spoil the paper. there's no way anyone else is getting my vote.
IT'S MINE DAMMIT AND YOU CAN'T HAVE IT!!! so moo to you tony blair.
I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
Compulsary voting?
Surely people in a democrasy should have a right to abstain/ obstain/ whatever?
It bad saying stuff like this though when there are people giving up hours of their time to wait in line, and often their lives for the right to vote.
Compulsary voting?
Surely people in a democrasy should have a right to abstain/ obstain/ whatever?
It bad saying stuff like this though when there are people giving up hours of their time to wait in line, and often their lives for the right to vote.
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
that's what i said jonneeeecough
if you *had* to go to put a mark on a piece of paper on voting day, there would be a very clear distinction between someone not bothering to vote and someone who turns up and abstains.
at the moment that distinction does not exist.
i'm not in envy of the way australian politics is conducted but it is a legal requirement to go out and stick your mark on a bit of paper which is something i'd like to see in place here.
cole. x
that's what i said jonneeeecough
if you *had* to go to put a mark on a piece of paper on voting day, there would be a very clear distinction between someone not bothering to vote and someone who turns up and abstains.
at the moment that distinction does not exist.
i'm not in envy of the way australian politics is conducted but it is a legal requirement to go out and stick your mark on a bit of paper which is something i'd like to see in place here.
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
SILVER Member
Member
62 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Member
62 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posted:
In Ireland we have proportional representation and the end result is no different - politics is all spin and pandering to whatever lobby shouts loudest (or is that pays more).
If I was a UK voter I'd vote Lib Dem - the 2 main parties spend too much time political point scoring and jumping on bandwagons.
IMO John Kerry lost the presidential election in the US because he tried too much to pander to Bush's vote and ended up being indistinguishible from George dubwa - I'd hate to see British politics go the same way and I like the way the Lib Dems aren't afraid to say something different / unpopular.
Although if I was a real cynic I'd say that the Lib Dems only do this because they can afford to - i.e. there's no hope of them winning the election this time around so they can pretty much promise anything.
Id rather pull out my own eyes than vote for Michael Howard.
In Ireland we have proportional representation and the end result is no different - politics is all spin and pandering to whatever lobby shouts loudest (or is that pays more).
If I was a UK voter I'd vote Lib Dem - the 2 main parties spend too much time political point scoring and jumping on bandwagons.
IMO John Kerry lost the presidential election in the US because he tried too much to pander to Bush's vote and ended up being indistinguishible from George dubwa - I'd hate to see British politics go the same way and I like the way the Lib Dems aren't afraid to say something different / unpopular.
Although if I was a real cynic I'd say that the Lib Dems only do this because they can afford to - i.e. there's no hope of them winning the election this time around so they can pretty much promise anything.
Id rather pull out my own eyes than vote for Michael Howard.
Remember what the doormouse said
BRONZE Member
Watcher of 80s cartoons
665 posts
Location: Chepstow & Bristol, United Kingdom
Watcher of 80s cartoons
665 posts
Location: Chepstow & Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
Well the Lib Dems will abolish tuition fees and seem to have a viable alternative to Council Tax so they are in the lead with my vote - Conservatives don't get a look in especially as they have got Lynton Crosby working for them - John Howard is an utter
and although this Labour government have been one of the best governments we have had (this opinion doesn’t mean that much since it is in respect to how appalling previous governments were) they still won’t get my vote since they have failed to deliver on countless issues.
Well the Lib Dems will abolish tuition fees and seem to have a viable alternative to Council Tax so they are in the lead with my vote - Conservatives don't get a look in especially as they have got Lynton Crosby working for them - John Howard is an utter
and although this Labour government have been one of the best governments we have had (this opinion doesn’t mean that much since it is in respect to how appalling previous governments were) they still won’t get my vote since they have failed to deliver on countless issues. >What do you think about the state of the Earth?
>I'm optimistic.
>So why do you look so sad?
>I'm not sure that my optimism is justified.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Well said. Exactly what I said but weller.
Written by: coleman
its sad that there is no distinction between abstinance and apathy.
Well said. Exactly what I said but weller.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Pooh-Bah
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
Posted:
sadly it already has....except it worked the other way around....Blair stole a lot of tory ground so they had no where to go without looking really radical and risking losing a lot of votes.
they practically fighting over the middle ground..it's just ridiculous, there's absolutely no choice.
Written by: Cloudscape
IMO John Kerry lost the presidential election in the US because he tried too much to pander to Bush's vote and ended up being indistinguishible from George dubwa - I'd hate to see British politics go the same way
sadly it already has....except it worked the other way around....Blair stole a lot of tory ground so they had no where to go without looking really radical and risking losing a lot of votes.
they practically fighting over the middle ground..it's just ridiculous, there's absolutely no choice.
I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.
GOLD Member
enthusiast, but not enthusiastic
367 posts
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA
enthusiast, but not enthusiastic
367 posts
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA
Posted:
I dunno. This sounds exactly like Karl Rove, the mastermind behind dubya's and many other conservatives' victories. Will Crosby stoop to dirty tricks - such as slinging mud at his own candidate, to make people think the opposition hits below the belt?
One of the problems is that some of the idiots are not idiots.
Written by: dream
And firepoise... its not so much US as Australian politics currently being rehashed by the tories.
Michael Howard appointed a guy called Lynton Crosby as his senior election advisor a couple of months ago...
Crosby is the Aussie credited for masterminding Aussie Tory John Howard's electoral successes, and Michael Howard has brought him in to try and repeat the trick... Crosby's campaign was largely credited for winning John Howard and election that most critics thought he'd lose.
This was done through sensationalising what had previoulsly been (relatively) minor issues ....
The idiots are working together...
I dunno. This sounds exactly like Karl Rove, the mastermind behind dubya's and many other conservatives' victories. Will Crosby stoop to dirty tricks - such as slinging mud at his own candidate, to make people think the opposition hits below the belt?
One of the problems is that some of the idiots are not idiots.
You can't fall off the floor, but sometimes you need a chair to reach the cookie jar.
analytic
503 posts
Location: bristol
503 posts
Location: bristol
Posted:
can someone please explain to me the difference between abstinence and apathy?
in the latter you can't be arsed, in the former you decide not to vote for any of the options. but voting doesn't measure your intentions, it measures outcomes. so what is the point in attempting to differentiate abstinence and apathy in an election?
just wondering
e
can someone please explain to me the difference between abstinence and apathy?
in the latter you can't be arsed, in the former you decide not to vote for any of the options. but voting doesn't measure your intentions, it measures outcomes. so what is the point in attempting to differentiate abstinence and apathy in an election?
just wondering
e
ture na sig
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
*runs in - looks about - worries she may have accidentally said something intelligent - hides*
*runs in - looks about - worries she may have accidentally said something intelligent - hides*
Geologists do it in the dirt................
SILVER Member
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Posted:
Abstinence is effectively a vote of no confidence in any of the people running in the election.
Apathy is not caring who wins.
It's a rather large and important difference I think.
Written by: v quiet
so what is the point in attempting to differentiate abstinence and apathy in an election?
Abstinence is effectively a vote of no confidence in any of the people running in the election.
Apathy is not caring who wins.
It's a rather large and important difference I think.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
SILVER Member
newbie
9 posts
Location: London (yuk...must get back to nature!)
newbie
9 posts
Location: London (yuk...must get back to nature!)
Posted:
I do find it interesting that probably 95% of the people I have had discussions with on this subject...and thats A LOT of poeple... have said they'll vote lib dem. And yet, they're still thought of as having no chance. If everyone who thinks this in our population went out to vote lib dem I think there could be a big suprise coming...not that I think they'll get in, I don't even think they'll topple the tories but they could gain significantly and pose a real threat in years to come whilst showing our dear Mr Blair that he's not quite as wonderful as he thinks he is. Come on people, get out there and let them know what this country thinks of the state of our politics!
I do find it interesting that probably 95% of the people I have had discussions with on this subject...and thats A LOT of poeple... have said they'll vote lib dem. And yet, they're still thought of as having no chance. If everyone who thinks this in our population went out to vote lib dem I think there could be a big suprise coming...not that I think they'll get in, I don't even think they'll topple the tories but they could gain significantly and pose a real threat in years to come whilst showing our dear Mr Blair that he's not quite as wonderful as he thinks he is. Come on people, get out there and let them know what this country thinks of the state of our politics!
Outside pressure to change only strengthens inner values...
DIAMOND Member
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
The differentiation between the two:
Abstinance is a killer green liqueur
and after you had some...
Apathy is a red Indian tribe
Ummm...sorry
Conservatives = Presenting the mose RACIST manifesto in British history since Mosley's black shirts
Labour = Responsible for invading Iraq. And becoming increasingly and dangerously right wing Neo-conservatives.
Lib-Dem = Best for not being either of the other 2
So is there anyone here who is not voting LD?
I'm sure the Americans are confused by that name... Like, they're "Democrats" right but they're "Liberals"... I don't get it.
The differentiation between the two:
Abstinance is a killer green liqueur
and after you had some...
Apathy is a red Indian tribe
Ummm...sorry
Conservatives = Presenting the mose RACIST manifesto in British history since Mosley's black shirts
Labour = Responsible for invading Iraq. And becoming increasingly and dangerously right wing Neo-conservatives.
Lib-Dem = Best for not being either of the other 2
So is there anyone here who is not voting LD?
I'm sure the Americans are confused by that name... Like, they're "Democrats" right but they're "Liberals"... I don't get it.
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
Apathay vs Abstinance - There IS a difference already.
Apathay - don't vote.
Abstinance - spoil ballot.
Spoilt votes get counted.
If there was a very high turnout and lots of spoilt votes it would show that people were actively fighting the system, not just being lazy.
Although one of the parties would still get in and with an even smaller percentage of the population in support of them, they would be unable to take the view 'they didn't vote, we can do what we want and they'll accept it'.
However I don't think this will happen.
Guess the lesser of the evils is gonna be the way it works - again...... LD.
Apathay vs Abstinance - There IS a difference already.
Apathay - don't vote.
Abstinance - spoil ballot.
Spoilt votes get counted.
If there was a very high turnout and lots of spoilt votes it would show that people were actively fighting the system, not just being lazy.
Although one of the parties would still get in and with an even smaller percentage of the population in support of them, they would be unable to take the view 'they didn't vote, we can do what we want and they'll accept it'.
However I don't think this will happen.
Guess the lesser of the evils is gonna be the way it works - again...... LD.
Geologists do it in the dirt................
SILVER Member
slack rating - 9.5
2,216 posts
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay, United Kingdom
slack rating - 9.5
2,216 posts
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
what worries me is that the latest opinion polls show only a few % split in vote between Conservatives and Labour. in fact one poll which only takes acount of those who are 100% going to vote claims tht Conservtives are actually IN FRONT!!!
(is this labour propoganda?)
this i find extremely worrying as the last person i'd want to see running the country is that two faced w*nker Howard (and Letwin running the ecomony is a disaster waiting to happen). now usually i'd vote Lib Dem or Green (when we have a candidate) but at the moment i'm worried that my vote my lead to a conservative victory. had someone (i.e. Blair) been reprimanded over Iraq i'd feel a lot more comfortable with Labour as they're economically practical and have generally improved welfare since the conservtives. on the flipside we're getting into deeper debt over public spending and the 'sofa' governmet system which led to iraq is just un-democratic... which brings me back to Lib Dem who have good ideals but no economic policy...
i'd like to see the lib dem's take over the conservatives as the prinipal opposition in the commons and as the (much) older generations pop their clogs hopefully this will be the case, but it's gonna be a long road and will probably need a number of terms in government before they have any idea how to practically run the country....
... so on the day, as long as it doesn't look like the conservatives are gonna win, Lib Dem has my vote. But if it does, i may have to go with the devil we know rather than the other complete tw*ts i detest even more...
what worries me is that the latest opinion polls show only a few % split in vote between Conservatives and Labour. in fact one poll which only takes acount of those who are 100% going to vote claims tht Conservtives are actually IN FRONT!!!
(is this labour propoganda?)this i find extremely worrying as the last person i'd want to see running the country is that two faced w*nker Howard (and Letwin running the ecomony is a disaster waiting to happen). now usually i'd vote Lib Dem or Green (when we have a candidate) but at the moment i'm worried that my vote my lead to a conservative victory. had someone (i.e. Blair) been reprimanded over Iraq i'd feel a lot more comfortable with Labour as they're economically practical and have generally improved welfare since the conservtives. on the flipside we're getting into deeper debt over public spending and the 'sofa' governmet system which led to iraq is just un-democratic... which brings me back to Lib Dem who have good ideals but no economic policy...
i'd like to see the lib dem's take over the conservatives as the prinipal opposition in the commons and as the (much) older generations pop their clogs hopefully this will be the case, but it's gonna be a long road and will probably need a number of terms in government before they have any idea how to practically run the country....
... so on the day, as long as it doesn't look like the conservatives are gonna win, Lib Dem has my vote.
But if it does, i may have to go with the devil we know rather than the other complete tw*ts i detest even more... It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett
analytic
503 posts
Location: bristol
503 posts
Location: bristol
Posted:
how does spoiling ballot papers figure in 'actively fighting the system'?
what's 'actively fighting the system', anyway?
you still have to pay taxes, whether you voted for the government, for the opposition, spoilt your ballot paper, or just didn't bother to vote.
i don't see that there's any substantive distinction to be drawn here
in other news: there's a website, voteswap.org [?sp? google it, anyway] which allows labour and lib dem voters to trade votes [tactical voting]. so if you're a lib dem supporter in a labour-conservative marginal seat, you can 'swap' your vote with a labour supporter who lives in a marginal lib dem-conservative seat.
i think there's something morally suspect with voting for someone who led us into iraq. but then, the tories are bastards. hmm. a dilemma.
how does spoiling ballot papers figure in 'actively fighting the system'?
what's 'actively fighting the system', anyway?
you still have to pay taxes, whether you voted for the government, for the opposition, spoilt your ballot paper, or just didn't bother to vote.
i don't see that there's any substantive distinction to be drawn here
in other news: there's a website, voteswap.org [?sp? google it, anyway] which allows labour and lib dem voters to trade votes [tactical voting]. so if you're a lib dem supporter in a labour-conservative marginal seat, you can 'swap' your vote with a labour supporter who lives in a marginal lib dem-conservative seat.
i think there's something morally suspect with voting for someone who led us into iraq. but then, the tories are bastards. hmm. a dilemma.
ture na sig
SILVER Member
Member
62 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Member
62 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posted:
I wonder what the tone of this discussion would be If Blair had taken a different stance on the Iraq? I think labour have done reasonably well on other issues (economy, public services etc), the things that would really put me off voting for them are:
- an over reliance on spin and PR
- invasion of Iraq
- anti terrorism proposals which inculde internment
If these issues didn't exist I wouldn't have a problem voting for labour although my preference would be Lib Dems.
(Note - I say "would" cause I'm Irish and not entitled to vote in the UK, I recently spent 6 months in London, that's why I have an interest)
I wonder what the tone of this discussion would be If Blair had taken a different stance on the Iraq? I think labour have done reasonably well on other issues (economy, public services etc), the things that would really put me off voting for them are:
- an over reliance on spin and PR
- invasion of Iraq
- anti terrorism proposals which inculde internment
If these issues didn't exist I wouldn't have a problem voting for labour although my preference would be Lib Dems.
(Note - I say "would" cause I'm Irish and not entitled to vote in the UK, I recently spent 6 months in London, that's why I have an interest)
Remember what the doormouse said
SILVER Member
currently mending
493 posts
Location: Bristol, New Zealand
currently mending
493 posts
Location: Bristol, New Zealand
Posted:
'what's 'actively fighting the system', anyway?'
civil disobedience
non violent (or violent if you're into that kind of thing) direct action
grassroots activism and campaigning
alternative media production/distribution (see Indymedia/Znet/Undercurrents/Adbusters)
There are lots of different ways to try and contribute to social change... based on what I hear from most people, including many in this discussion, what I don't understand is why there isn't a widespread pro PR campaign???
Go on hippies... put the poi away and go protest... or better still go protest and take the poi with you.
'what's 'actively fighting the system', anyway?'
civil disobedience
non violent (or violent if you're into that kind of thing) direct action
grassroots activism and campaigning
alternative media production/distribution (see Indymedia/Znet/Undercurrents/Adbusters)
There are lots of different ways to try and contribute to social change... based on what I hear from most people, including many in this discussion, what I don't understand is why there isn't a widespread pro PR campaign???
Go on hippies... put the poi away and go protest... or better still go protest and take the poi with you.
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
Nietzsche
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
Geologists do it in the dirt................
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