• All Purchases made this month instantly go into the draw to win a USD $ 100.00 credit to your HoP account.
 

Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Is dancing or technical ability more important?

Login/Join to Participate
Page: 123
pricklyleaf
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

pricklyleaf

with added berries
Location: Manchester

Total posts: 1365
Posted:Hi this is coming up a lot but whats the definitive opinion on what is more important. Are people who learn to spin every move under the sun, but who don't really move much wasting their time?, or is knowing the moves the way to impress? confused

Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

Delete Topic

Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:I'm in it for the dance, and as a self described non dancer, I'm figuring poi is a great excuse to get out there and do it. staff too. I like the props.

I'm always looking for new ways to spin my poi, but I want the whole package, the move + smooth transition into it, and out of it ,,and I find myself always looking for new ways to spin moves I already know.

Three weeks ago one of those vampire spinners that NYC mentioned taught me lots about the five beat weave, a move I could spin both forward and reverse, but never really used because I didn't know what to do with it. " What? do I just stand here and do it?",,,, " Why bother with it, when it just looks like a three beat being spun fast?" I asked myself.

Now I know, thanks to 15 minutes of instruction ( and two weeks of practice ) I'm really happy with my five beat weave,,, in a dancy kinda way.

I've had COL5 for a few weeks now, and I watch Jools and One Wheel Dave every day,,,, they're completely different styles but I'm drawing influences from both. Toss in a little Dervishly Yers. garnish with a little Spinning in Paris 1+2

As to what's more impressive??, that depends on your audience, if your just spinning for John Q. Public, anything with fire will do, regardless of style, but I do think that dancers who pick up poi have an impressiveness advantage over non dancers who just stand there doing "moves" .


Delete

Disc0


annoying boy
Location: Sweden

Total posts: 160
Posted:as everybody says, you need both. but the thing that i think is most important is to add your personal touch to it. maby 'couse i've seen s lot of "basic" styles... but when anybody does anything in their special way (instead of "following the book") it gets exciting to look at and it's fun to watch. and isn't performing much about satisfy the audiance?

some things that make your spinning personal can be music, personal tricks you repeat a bit more often that the others, and clothing


fire is just light and heat.
it's you friend!

Delete

Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Dance = Fun for everyone
Techy = Fun for everyone
Dance & Techy = Even more fun for everyone

Summary:
Poi/Staff = Fun for everyone
Contact Juggling = The best thing since poi wink


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

Delete

KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
Posted:hug danae

I feel that among the younger glowstick spinner crowd in the US, that's what it has degraded into. Less dancing, more pissing contest.

We need to work on that...


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

Delete

MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Written by:
I feel that among the younger glowstick spinner crowd in the US, that's what it has degraded into. Less dancing, more pissing contest.



This is one of the main reasons Im not into glow string in the least. I dont think Ive ever seen someone at a club DANCING with glow strings. They all just stand there doin their crazy wrap junk (which is just fine for a while but gets old pretty quick). They lack style IMO.


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

Delete

munkypunks
GOLD Member since Jan 2005

munkypunks

enthusiast, but not enthusiastic
Location: Los Angeles, California

Total posts: 367
Posted:In general, this is pretty funny and probably mostly true - especially the passer-by part! But I'm a female beginner, and at a fire party last week, the guy who impressed me most was one who seemed at one with his fire, gracefully and spiritually swinging/dancing, and he seemed technically pretty good too. However, the guys who impressed the crowd the most were the ones who did the most and fastest wraps and releases. For what those two cents are worth.....

You can't fall off the floor, but sometimes you need a chair to reach the cookie jar.

Delete

MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Yes, such is the way of performing. When it comes to a non-spinning audience, skill really doesnt matter. All they want is speed and craziness.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

Delete

NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: KaelGotRice

hug danae

I feel that among the younger glowstick spinner crowd in the US, that's what it has degraded into. Less dancing, more pissing contest.

We need to work on that...



Firstly, son, there's a line for Hugging Danae. And you are WAYYY at the back of the line. wink

Secondly, I kinda feel like HoP has had that 'pissing contest' feel back in the day. Maybe it came and it went but back in the Phunky/Myst/CrazyRaverDude days there were some egos with stuff to prove. I wonder if we've outgrown that OR if the hippy vibe of the fire posse is just naturally more snuggly. I know the disproportion of Men/Women in the glow scene certainly has alot to do with the dynamic that's in it.

But I feel like this guys vs. girls, dance vs. techy has been done.

-Who likes guys who are techy and girls who can dance. Or girls who are techy and guys who can dance. Or ravers who spin fire. Or firespinners who rave. But not jugglers. wink

ubbangel


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Im down for the tech girls myself smile Can relate to them better than say, a belly dancer who also spins fire.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

Delete

KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
Posted:Written by: ICoN


This is one of the main reasons Im not into glow string in the least. I dont think Ive ever seen someone at a club DANCING with glow strings. They all just stand there doin their crazy wrap junk (which is just fine for a while but gets old pretty quick). They lack style IMO.





Someday we'll meet. I hope I could prove you wrong. biggrin



oh yeah NYC, mystik was here? hahah, he was pretty good but what a punk - honestly. I knew him through gs.c.



Often we find that attitude is far more important than actual spinning skill. At least to me. It seems we've reached the hippie vs. raver mentality on gs.c... plur all around. wink



Like said before - if you can spin and smile... that's what counts.



Oh and nyc, you may be first in line for hugs from danae, but I glomp first. I <3 the spinning in paris video. Excellent tech AND dancing.



Oh but Icon- people who know how to dance vertically know how to dance horizontally. And that applies to girls!

ubbrollsmile



Dance on! ubblol


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

Delete

MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:You are something of an exception to the rule, Kael. From the videos Ive seen of you, I bet you could prove me wrong.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

Delete

Glåss
PLATINUM Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:I got asked in a PM, so Heres the link for strangeTVOD.avi that I mentioned above
= Click on the last one "strange things happen"
http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/show...5/o/all/fpart/1
br>
But If you want to see a spinner who demonstrated all 3 things
Technical spinning
Dancing and
technique
Right now I's recommend Poibox = "Brother and son" on COL5 which is my favorite bit of spinning on video this year. Really worth watching.

Theres a directors cut of the 2nd half of Spinning in Paris. its no different footage but I cleaned up the edits on Nomad, (who I think is an awsum spinner and dancer too)


Delete

_pOp_
BRONZE Member since Aug 2003

Playing OldSchool Poi
Location: amsterdam

Total posts: 593
Posted:eek wow!!! I just saw that video, and me thinks I'm in love ubblove

that really was some beautifull spinning... sunny ohhhhhhhh, I need summer!!!


meditate eRic.

I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!

Delete

KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
Posted:Thanks glass... biggrin

/me agrees. Girls who do poi and dance, me go ubbloco

And icon, you HoP people flatter me too much. If I ever develop an ego you have my henceforth expressed permission to beat down upon me.

wink


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

Delete

_pOp_
BRONZE Member since Aug 2003

Playing OldSchool Poi
Location: amsterdam

Total posts: 593
Posted:I would actually really LOVE to see that same video again, but then with fire (same setting, same time of day)...
rolleyes please?


meditate eRic.

I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!

Delete

Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Thanks cole, contact jugglers, that explains it then wink lol:

To me rhythm implies music. Do you think there is any difference between swinging to the beat, and dancing to the music?

I agree this tekki style has a lot in common with the facings used in traditional club swinging. I use the term Exhibition Swinging to describe this style. While this style is fairly ridged, it's popular at raves. Ravers seem to like the patterns for some reason smile

But I like to dance when Im spinning fire, especially with poi. Fire dancing is "the go" in oz, and swinging clubs have given me a great platform to move into the circle. Now I just have find my feet, pull up me sox and get into the next level of spiders, trinity and atomics etc. ubblove the concept where there are no moves just spinning and dancing smile

I was a bit like Glass who said I only didn't dance because I didn't think that I knew how to. And Ive been wondering if that is a common misconception with tekki spinners.

cheers

beerchug


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Delete

_khan_
SILVER Member since Nov 2004

_khan_

old hand
Location: San Francisco, California, USA

Total posts: 768
Posted:I love these sorts of conversations. To me, it's indicative of the increasing maturity of the artform that not only are these different modes of poi being practiced, but also that the distinctions are being noted and discussed.

I wonder though, how much it really matters? I mean, so there are some spinners who gravitate toward "techy" and others who gravitate toward "flowy." That's how it goes, and both ways contribute to the development to the art, so why not just spin and let spin?

It seems to me that "new developments in poi" may start out being viewed as "techy" but once people figure out how to integrate them into their flow, they're not anymore. Hyperloops, for example, seem to be considered techy, but, as Glass indcated above re: PoiboxII's video on COL5, that techy aspect is seamlessly integrated into a very flowing and beautiful routine. I find Hyperloops to be quite flowy in fact. Maybe it breaks down to tech-oriented spinners being the ones who push the boundaries of what's possible with individual patterns and flow-oriented spinners being the ones who figure out what the hell to do with the new innovations?

A couple of things that are only ever-so-slightly off topic:

I've been using the word "patterns" rather than "moves". To me, calling something a "move" indicates that that move is an end in and of itself. But calling it a pattern indicates that it's a piece of a greater whole. Perhaps that's just me.

And:
Written by: Stone


To me rhythm implies music. Do you think there is any difference between swinging to the beat, and dancing to the music?



Yes, I think there is a difference. I have noticed that when I dance, I respond more to melody than beats. Which is partly why I find that when I spin to pop, rock or torch songs even that I'm much more flowy than when I spin to drumming or dance music. My favorite dance music tends to be that which has a strong melodic component and it's not all just thump-thump-thump. Spinning for me is more melodic than rhythmic.


taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco

Delete

MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:There has recently been a little discussion between Musashii and I over on Tribe which is somewhat relevant so Im gonna port it on over. It started out with a joke which Musashii took the wrong way but it evolved into a discussion about the importance of movement in poi.

-----------------------

ICoN
"Bleh, isolations are so last year... Plus, they're only variations, why not isolate your throws? smile"

Musashii
"I don't ever think I've ever heard anyone say a certain move is 'last year', that's so [censored] trendy it makes me vomit. Maybe you were joking, but I didn't catch it. That sounds like something a 'fad' spinner would say, and definitely not something a performer would say. Mebbe thats why it hit a nerve, I dunno"

ICoN
"Actually, I was 100% serious. Whats wrong with being a fad spinner? I mean, spinning is only cool cuz you learn new tricks so people think youre awesome.

Sheesh, get with the program.

And if you couldnt tell that was 100% a joke.


Oh, and to expand a bit on the "so last year" joke:

As members of the poi community, we all, of course, share our knowledge rather freely to collectively help the art evolve. During this process, its common for a certain technique or concept to become popular among the more active members as they take time to explore, more deeply, the percieved potential. After some time, a new concept comes along, stealing their interest and they move on. Of course they dont leave the old concepts behind to collect dust but there are undoubtedly distinct climaxes to each step in our collective progression and this is what is being referred to. And yes, its a joke."

Musashii
"well put some more smileys innit so us grumpy quitting smoking ppl can understand it :P This reminds me of a recent conversation, quite often it seems that in the process of this art evolving, alot of (body)movement gets discarded in favor of the 'trick'. Is that really evolving? Antispin is all the rage these days, but martial artists have been doing it much longer than we have. Even contact staff was practiced in the chinese opera way before it picked up by spinners, possibly longer than that. I understand you're only saying these concepts are cycled through and not trying to say that they are completely new, and I totally agree. But those 'variations' are part of the body movements that makes the art truly evolve, not the tricks, imo.

Just some thoughts on the recent collective progression, now that you got me thinking about it.

ps - I looove throws. Don't get enough chances to use them. And neck wraps, but those are sooo overdone wink<== see cept for that flower double neck wrap mebbe"

ICoN
"See, but its not that the body movements are discarded, its that they're just about impossible to teach over the internet. Its much easier to give people the basic moves/patterns and let them figure out how to move with it and make it look good. Its what gives each person their own style and personally, I dont think Id wanna give my style away as freely as my moves."

Musashii
"Hmm, but I don't think it's as hard as you think. Let me give you an example, call it the floorsweeper. Floorsweeper: a watermill done from a low horse(riding) stance where you shift your weight/body from one leg/side to another. Still simple enough to explain online, and puts more emphasis on the movement than the technicality of the poi. Dunno, I agree that movement and piecing moves together is a personal expression of style(s hopefully), I don't think teaching building blocks such as that would constitute giving away a style per se."

ICoN
"Yeah, guess I went about that at the wrong angle. I had just woken up when I typed that and was rushing to get to work...

You said, "But those 'variations' are part of the body movements that makes the art truly evolve, not the tricks, imo."

I rather disagree with this. I feel the body movements are completely independant from the tricks which is why people CAN just do the tricks. The art of poi is simply that, manipulating the poi. Now, you can most definately incorporate things from other arts such as dance (art of body movement) to make your presentation more interesting but when it comes to "evolving the art of poi" tricks are first and foremost on the list.

Of course you can teach movement to a degree but I think its too limiting. There are infinate ways to perform each trick and if you start teaching people speciffic movements they should be doing for them, it may turn them away from developing their own techniques.

Plus, when it comes down to it, some people just arent into that. Everyone spins for different reasons and while you may feel that movement is a big part of poi, others may not. Movement is only truly important if you perform and out of all the poi spinners in the world, very few actually perform. Believe it or not, there ARE people who spin just to learn new tricks just like there are people who dont give a flying fig about tricks and just use poi to suppliment dance. Are either of these options wrong? No, they're just different. It takes all kinds. Ya know, when I said "Whats wrong with being a fad spinner?" it was said in jest but really... Is there anything wrong with it? How would a fad spinner really effect you or the way you prefer to enjoy the art?

Now, perhaps if you still feel that movement should be taught along side the tricks, you could work on making that happen. Teach workshops geared towards that, or create a website that focuses more on developing flow of movement than the moves themselves. There are really lots of things you could do to promote movement in poi and if youre really that passionate about it, maybe you should do it."


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

Delete

KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
Posted:Teach people how to move over the internet? wink
Teach people how to dance over the internet? wink
Isn't that just like teaching people how to have sex over the internet? eek

We try to teach people as best as we could, but somethings are just too difficult to teach online. Or at best improbable.

Sure we can teach the basics, but showing people how to move their bodies over the internet is done best with videos... which is expensive to say the least.

And then people end up being copies of each other.

So the best is just to go off on your own and practice. There is really no substitute for it.


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

Delete

NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: KaelGotRice

Isn't that just like teaching people how to have sex over the internet?... The best is just to go off on your own and practice. There is really no substitute for it.



ubblol Oh sorry, is that not what you meant?


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
Posted:yes, on your OWN and practice.

wink


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

Delete

MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Yes, NYC knows all about sex. He got lots of experience while working part time as a jizz mopper at the hula go-go bar.



ubblol



Sorry, NYC. That footage is too good to let go to waste smile


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

Delete

NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:(Hrmm... can't download from home, too slow, can't download from work, too risky...)

And don't go using my real name online. It gives me 'plausable deniability' with my students. Very handy when you work with minors who surf the internet. biggrin


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Sorry bro, changed it.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

Delete

MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Oh and the file is rather small so you can probably get it at home in reasonable time... And its not a dirty vid unless thrown out of context... But who would do something like that? biggrin

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

Delete

KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
Posted:great old post from ILR.com aka ILOVERAVING.com

Person 1: teach me how to dance!
Person 2: teach u how to dance?!?! well... um... dancing is kinda like sex...
Person 3: i agree. it is like sex. at first it' uncomfortable, unsatisfying, and embarassing, but it gets better with practice. eventually there will be no more premature beat reaction. and soon, you'll be able to not only please yourself, but please others too. alot of others. you slut!
j/k. dont forget to wear protection!

biggrin

Oh yeah, what is NYC's real name? I bet I could find it somewhere. wink


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

Delete

drakematrix
SILVER Member since Oct 2004

drakematrix

Maker of the Cheesecake
Location: Akron, OH

Total posts: 174
Posted:well, speaking as a beginner, I have to learn the tricks first. Once I get the tricks down, then I'll worry about movement of the rest of my body. besides, I've never been comfortable with regular dancing anyway. I realize that a lot of you guys have been doing this for a heck of a long time, but try to remember back to when you spent an entire day trying to get the alternate butterfly with your less than dominant hand. (which I just did today btw, and can actually get the mexican wave going for a couple of beats) trying to learn that and move at the same time just isn't all that easy.

As far as learning over the internet goes, I find that pretty much impossible. It's difficult enough to learn from the videos, because I get no feedback from them. That's why I want someone to work with. they can look at me and tell me what I'm doing wrong, and that would help me learn faster. I don't think you have to worry too much about someone not developing their own style. Once they have the basic moves down, the personal style will develop on it's own. Do they teach artists to paint by saying "this is red, this is yellow, this is blue" and then tell them to go develop their own style? Absolutely not. They teach them the principles of color, composition, and the like, and then guide them into their own style


What exactly do I have to light on fire to get you to notice me?

Delete

ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:that vid is hilarious

you definitaly get the 'getting in the way of the camera prize' nyc. i especialy love the way you looked like you were trying to stay out of the way in the beginning but after a while you just relaxed and sat right there in front of it.

strangely enough i could not focus on nyc. which probably also explains why he ddnt spot the camera. wink

nice hooping...

i love to dance, wish i was better at it.


Love is the law.

Delete

NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Ah yes... the decom vid. smile



That's where we all learned a valuable lesson. DO NOT GIVE ICON THE VIDEO CAMERA.



We got exciting footage of me mopping and hot girls walking about but missed most of the firespinning. Thankfully he got my plate spinning. Looking forward to actually doing some plate tricks at PDF.



And don't invite Icon to any of your parties where there are cute girls, or he'll sticky up your floors. eek


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Pfff!



First off, thats not even my footage. It was sent to me by someone else who took it with their digi cam (hence the shite quality). I was too busy mackin' it with the groupies back stage to take much footage (what can I say? Im cute and owned the stage that night!).



And secondly, Id rather be the one stickying up the floors than the one moppin it!



Dont invite NYC to parties... He wears goggles and welding gloves when he spins fire... Might wanna look into a helmet and elbow pads for next time tongue


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

Delete

Page: 123