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Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Is dancing or technical ability more important?

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pricklyleaf
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

pricklyleaf

with added berries
Location: Manchester

Total posts: 1365
Posted:Hi this is coming up a lot but whats the definitive opinion on what is more important. Are people who learn to spin every move under the sun, but who don't really move much wasting their time?, or is knowing the moves the way to impress? confused

Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

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JauntyJames
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

JauntyJames

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA

Total posts: 3533
Posted:it depends on who you're trying to impress, but i'd generally value technicall skills more than dancing skills

-James

"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Yeah, it really depends on what youre trying to do with it. If youre trying to show off new moves, teach people certain concepts, or generally trying to exhibit sheer skill, then tech is the way to go. If youre just feeling the music and cant hold back the urge to spin something, dancing is always fun.... But the thing is, at least in my opinion, fire arts are best used for entertainment as in a performance. In this case, you need it all. You need to be able to hold someone's attention throughout your entire show and you wont be able to do that just spinning crazy tech tricks or dancing about flailing wildly. A performance needs a combination of both and in that, I think they are both equally important.

To me, it seems like a rather silly question. Its like asking "In the olympic hurdles event, which is more important: being able to jump high or being able to run fast?" However, each person has their own reasons for spinning and some may feel, to them, that one is more important than the other... In which case, they would be right also.


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Pink...?
BRONZE Member since Apr 2002

Pink...?

Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
Location: Over There

Total posts: 6140
Posted:
I think it's a mixture. I personally like looking at people who move with their poi, it adds a whole other dimension to their moves.
Yet also i like to see some technical skills.

For me, someone who can do both is a "good spinner".


Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Oh, and I wanted to add that your poll may come up a bit bias as there is a large European following on this board and the concensus seems to be that Euros favor tech by a large margin.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:Dance smile

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Gav486
SILVER Member since Oct 2004

Gav486

You have 23 seconds to comply!


Total posts: 122
Posted:I reckon everyone's goung to have their on take on this question; personal taste and all that.

Personally, I can ooh and ahh at fancy moves that i know are tricky, 'cos I, like everyone else here, am a poi spinner myself. But y'know; the poi spinners that make me smile the most aren't necessarily uber-tech. It's the people who move well, regardless of how hard the moves are. Then again, if they can do both, I might start to grin, and possibly giggle a little bit...

weavesmiley biggrin weavesmiley


You cannot trust this boy! His mind has been corrupted by colours, sounds and shapes.

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KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
Posted:Dance...

of course, a mix of 50/50 will probably be better looking, but dance is where the fun is at.


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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_khan_
SILVER Member since Nov 2004

_khan_

old hand
Location: San Francisco, California, USA

Total posts: 768
Posted:I voted on the poll that both are equally important, but personally I value what would be considered "dance" more than "tech." Interesting and smooth transitions (which to me includes moving your body as well as the poi) between simpler moves definitely impresses me more than a bunch of difficult tricks one after the other but with no fluidity between them.

taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco

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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:hey hey guys - nice thread smile

It's actually been dicussed a lot here on the wonderful Home of Poi so I found a few other threads you might enjoy - they actually make pretty good reading (I got distracted while looking for them and somewhat lost in HoP memories lol)

1) This one's about the technical side of things.

2) This one's about dance.


Here's something I wrote on one of them smile ........
Written by:

I love that poi is so versatile. I love that everyone uses it how they like and enjoys it nonetheless. I love that although i usually prefer to watch someone dance and bounce, the person next to me could be fascinated only by the incredibly technical new ideas. It's all about how we and other people react so differently to what we do and how we enjoy such different aspects of it - and i love that too.



Further reading................... wink

Turns into quite an interesting dance/tech debate somewhere........

Last but not least, the Sexy Spinners Thread - some wicked points about style and tricks and movement and flow etc....


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:You are all wrong.

I got a coin and said if it landed on heads, dancing was more important and if it landed on tails then technical was.

It landed on tails.

I see no reason for further discussion.

wink (And props to FNF for Durbsing a Do.)


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Why wouldnt technical ability include foot work, and even some dance steps?

One would expect people would be moving around with the poi, and wouldnt want to trip over their feet.


wink


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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ImmortalAngel
SILVER Member since Jan 2004

Scientist!
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Total posts: 578
Posted:This debate is in any performing art, especially those with dance involved. Ask any break dancer what's more important, breaking, or popping and grooving. It depends what school you're from.
I personally favor dancing when in front of people, but Tech when I'm on my own. Alot of peope don't see the difference in some of the tech moves unless they are a fellow spinner :P


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:ImmortalAngel



I know, Ive been to LPC.



You must not bounce. Its disappointing, I was expecting something else.



I dont know much of the background. But do you think things like liquid, popping, breaking, top rocking have strayed too far from their dance roots? Or is that just silly?





cheers


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
Posted:eh once someone has seen your technicality a few times its boring. A good dancer, well that has a lot more quality play time if you know what I mean.

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:Written by: Stone

I know, Ive been to LPC.




lpc are not breakdancers.

they're just a bunch of contact jugglers who lost their balls tongue wink


cole. x

p.s. did you buy the lpc video stone?
if not, i wouldn't bother - just find clips of eric and buy extended detours instead smile


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:i didn't vote.
the option "spinning with rhythm" was not available. smile

plus i wasn't sure if the question was 'what is more important to you?' or 'what is more important for impressing people?'

i personally think, you could be the best dancer in the world, but if your timing and planes are all over the place, you might as well put the poi down and just dance.
equally, if you can do a shedload of moves but don't move your feet, you might as well learn to swing traditional clubs or become one of those people who tell aeroplanes where to park.


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:I used to think that technical spinning was really where it was at. frown



But Then I started to learn about the Dancing. biggrin



Umm, Methinks that some people in this thread might be confusing 2 different things

Technical spinning and

Technique.

For example the 2nd option in the original question



Technical Moves (= techy spinning, is about who can do the latest moves, or the most complex variations)

Which nowdays often bore me - not about making things beautiful, it can be about exploring what is possible, a journey into uncharted territory, although sadly it is often about pissing higher up the wall frown

To me, the core of technical spinning seems to mostly be really difficult tricks presented badly and this is a very dissapointing thing to watch. It focuses on the "what" is being done, not the "way" that it is done.

and like my old Cousin Louie Used to say,

"It Aint what you do, its the way that you do it." smile



It is not the same thing as:

Techincal Ability (= skill smile ) Which is Always a Groovy thing to get good



Presented well Technical spinning can be great to watch, but for me nowdays, this is only whe combined with great body movement, musicality, great technique(skill), presentation and emotion.



Great Skill is a part of great dancing

Great Rhythm is also a part of great dancing

Great links FNF smile thanks



So on the poll I pick option: 4 Dancing with a heart full of joy and a lot of Skill. biggrin



If you wanna see some go download "strangeTVOD.avi "

and watch the section from 5:15 to 7:30

Which is in my opinion one of the best bits of Poi spinning ever posted on HOP

I wont mention which Fluffly Fairy hug is spinning because I think she might redface



(edit for clarity and extra bran) rolleyes

EDITED_BY: Glss (1111591969)


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Analemma


Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA

Total posts: 384
Posted:I think I have seen this discussion before but it is always nice to talk about it ubbrollsmile
When you ask "what is more important" you always have to consider "more important for what?"
You said: "to impress"
so my answer(s) would be:

To impress beginners: Spin Fast
To impress intermediate: Spin Technical
To impress advanced: Spin Dancing
To impress women: Dance
To impress men: Technical
To impress yourself: Practice
To impress your family: Dont burn yourself
To impress your girlfriend: Give her flowers
To impress me: Smile, have fun and dont try to impress biggrin

ubbloco

andy


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:I think you have to have both to be a good spinner.

A good dancer doesn't make a good spinner and neither does having technical skills and knowledge.

The best spinners I've seen have been great at both; flowing smoothly through the "difficult" and "easy" moves turning them all into one continuous beautiful performance that is wonderful and admirable to watch.


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: PoiBoxII

I think I have seen this discussion before but it is always nice to talk about it ubbrollsmile
When you ask "what is more important" you always have to consider "more important for what?"
You said: "to impress"
so my answer(s) would be:

To impress beginners: Spin Fast
To impress intermediate: Spin Technical
To impress advanced: Spin Dancing
To impress women: Dance
To impress men: Technical
To impress yourself: Practice
To impress your family: Dont burn yourself
To impress your girlfriend: Give her flowers
To impress me: Smile, have fun and dont try to impress biggrin

ubbloco

andy



Well said. biggrin I'd add "To Impress Passer Bys: Light anything on fire"


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Jo


Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England

Total posts: 517
Posted:Dance smile



Edit: No! Technical smile



Edit: No! Both smile



deffinitely both, and in whatever ratio floats your boat. Realy like your thoughts Cole, Drew, Andy, everybody...



Jo. ubbrollsmile

EDITED_BY: Jo (1111586743)


Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:flowers

thats it!

thats what i've been missing!!!

hug


Love is the law.

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:Good one Poi box



Now I have another question for you, (and anyone else)

What is more important than Impressing?



My answer is (for me) is....



Dancing smile



bounce2 bounce



and hugging hug

EDITED_BY: Glss (1111590979)


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ma'tina
BRONZE Member since Mar 2005

ma'tina

multiplex
Location: somewhere...

Total posts: 611
Posted:Written by: PoiBoxII

I think I have seen this discussion before but it is always nice to talk about it ubbrollsmile
When you ask "what is more important" you always have to consider "more important for what?"
You said: "to impress"
so my answer(s) would be:

To impress beginners: Spin Fast
To impress intermediate: Spin Technical
To impress advanced: Spin Dancing
To impress women: Dance
To impress men: Technical
To impress yourself: Practice
To impress your family: Dont burn yourself
To impress your girlfriend: Give her flowers
To impress me: Smile, have fun and dont try to impress biggrin

ubbloco

andy



What else can I say apart from nice opinion, I agree!
personally I think that the technical part is much more important, 'cause when you know the techniques you can dance the way you like or just spin,...etc. otherwise you can't spin properly and just dance with two lightballs by your side...

depends on what you wanna do!

biggrin to the world

tina ubbangel


- Ho Sa -
kisses & peace & love to beautiful madges
*rever le temps le prendre*

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: Glss

Now I have another question for you, (and anyone else)
What is more important than Impressing?




That's a really big list for me! "Impressing people" is low on my daily list of things to do.

I know I was the last person on earth, I'd still spin sock poi. So I'm not in it to impress anyone.

I like challenging myself. I think that's why I like an audience because it distinguishes the "who cares" practice from the "OK, now I'm gonna try" performance for me.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:more important than impressing?



smiling smile



i am not a performer, i am a hobbyist.

as such, the number one issue for me when i'm spinning is not what looks good to other people or whether i consider the movements i make to be 'dance' or not - it is whether i am enjoying it.



if i'm not having fun spinning, it doesn't really matter what i look like, because i'll stop.

if someone actually enjoys watching me spin now and then, that's super cool but i really am not doing it for them.

if they happened to say, 'you should dance around more', i would ask 'why?'.

hope that doesn't sound ignorant or rude but although i want my poi to look good, since i don't spin for anyone but me, its only my opinion of 'good' that really matters.





so, i have a question for droo (and everyone else too) devil



when you were spinning lots and learning tech poi, you thought that's where it was at.

you got really good at that and moved on to pastures new - swing dancing.

but since you've been learning to dance, you think that is where its at...





so my question then is "do your current pastimes and learning goals draw your view of what you like to see/do with your spinning towards them?"



or similar question from another angle:



"is the grass always greener - i.e. is the stuff that you yourself can do competently passe and the skills that you have an appreciation of but do not yet possess become your epitomy of what makes someone's technique 'special' in your eyes?"





cole. x

EDITED_BY: coleman (1111591786)


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:Yo, I rewrote my big post above, I didn't mean to, but it kinda happened accidently,
when I was trying to make a little edit,
Its much better now, although a little opinionated in places smile
Cole it answer some of you questions above.

"when you were spinning lots and learning tech poi, you thought that's where it was at."
Naaah, when I was spinning technical moves, I really admired people like, Karine, Danae and Arashi who could move their ass.
I only didn't dance because I didn't think that I knew how to smile

When I was spinning poi 2 years ago, I had a feeling that technical wasn't going anywhere for me at that moment, every move started to look the same as the last and dance was where I needed to go. I'm going to come back to poi, but not ready yet.

My attitude changed first, then I changed my past times, I've put down my poi and am learning to dance,
not the other way round.

Yes, everything we do influences everything else,

" is the stuff that you yourself can do competently passe and the skills that you have an appreciation of but do not yet possess become your epitomy of what makes someone's technique 'special' in your eyes?"
Slight exageration, not "completely passe" and "epitomy" but sadly, for me, theres definately a strong leaning in that direction.

good questions, whats your answer
Drew:)


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Jo


Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England

Total posts: 517
Posted:Cole, I know this doesn't touch all the issues you're getting at, but for me...

I have always tried to put an equal emphasis on D&T

I have always enjoyed my poi a lot.

However, a couple of years ago (importantly, at about the time I realised poi was way to vast to learn all)

I stopped bothering with new moves - just dance.

I can say, in all honesty, that no longer giving two monkes about the moves I dance with has increased my enjoyment of poi tenfold.

just my experiences...

Jo smile


Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:ditto What he said smile

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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:umm it depends what you call moves. I don't think I do many. But I also can't really dance without poi. So the two go hand in hand for me - I dance best when I'm doing 'moves'..........

does that make any sense?

oh - and redface


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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