Forums > Social Discussion > Where ARE all the masters anyway?
Login/Join to ParticipateSILVER Member
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
Posted:
I've been looking through old threads for a while, digging in all sorts of interesting topics. Along the way, I keep coming across statements like "oh if you think so-and-so is good, you haven't seen nothing" and "anybody who's REALLY good hasn't got the time or the interest to enter COL", "nobody who's REALLY good comes around HoP" or, often from the more famous members, "oh I'm really just starting, I've seen so MANY people so much better than me it's sick"
So if these elusive-yet-plentiful-yet-never-seen mythical figures of Insanely Spectacularness aren't on any of the video compilations, don't have websites, don't participate in any forums, and don't have up any online videos.... where the hell ARE they, then? They certainly aren't in movies. Did they all run off and join some circus in Siberia or what?
I've been looking through old threads for a while, digging in all sorts of interesting topics. Along the way, I keep coming across statements like "oh if you think so-and-so is good, you haven't seen nothing" and "anybody who's REALLY good hasn't got the time or the interest to enter COL", "nobody who's REALLY good comes around HoP" or, often from the more famous members, "oh I'm really just starting, I've seen so MANY people so much better than me it's sick"
So if these elusive-yet-plentiful-yet-never-seen mythical figures of Insanely Spectacularness aren't on any of the video compilations, don't have websites, don't participate in any forums, and don't have up any online videos.... where the hell ARE they, then? They certainly aren't in movies. Did they all run off and join some circus in Siberia or what?
"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X
SILVER Member
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
Posted:
..Why do people keep making it sound like being here is a waste of time that only beginners bother with? That's awfully bitter. Doesn't anyone appreciate the internet anymore? And I mean.... to say that at all you've got to be HERE after all...
Written by: onewheeldaveNobody. There'd only be one guy there to begin with.
If you had a 'master' and a 'jedi' in the same place, which would win?
Written by: TheBovrilMonkeyThe CG gurus who are a bit on in years started with traditional animation. When they got into art (back in the 60s/70s!), computers were completely useless for that purpose, so they had no choice. They literally went from hand-drawing cels one at a time to spearheading projects like Jurassic Park and Harry Potter. Of course there aren't hordes of them, but there are quite a few, and the rest of us know who they are-- and if they can do that, some grizzled spinners can learn to use a forum. Maybe it isn't part of their job description, but it ain't tough, and it seems like they'd have SOME curiosity as to who else is doing what out here. Anybody who does one google search about poi would know about HoP.
The thing is, there just can't be many of these people around.
Also, being blunt, they'd have to be getting on a bit, most likely too old to have grown up with computers, so they may well not be capable of using them very well (I'm using my mum as basis for this)
Compare that to your CG artist forum - people there have to be very computer literate, but computer literacy isn't a prerequisite for spinning. The gurus out there may not even be aware of the online spinning community, just because we know about it doesn't mean we should take it for granted that everyone does.
Written by:A good point, but by no means does that represent everyone with considerable talent. A few maybe, but not enough to account for the apparent absence of well-known gurus.
they're still human - susceptible to all manner of strange feelings and emotions that have no basis in logic.
Maybe that's what makes them the true masters, they could be people who know full well that they're damned good, but are also so insecure that they're driven to better themselves every day, so that no-one can come along and take their crown.
..Why do people keep making it sound like being here is a waste of time that only beginners bother with? That's awfully bitter. Doesn't anyone appreciate the internet anymore? And I mean.... to say that at all you've got to be HERE after all...
"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X
SILVER Member
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Posted:
That's kind of what I was getting at - the cg gurus had no choice but to learn how to use a computer.
I know plenty of people who refuse to learn for some reason or another, they don't need to so they spend their time doing something else instead.
Add the lack of computer skills needed for spinning and the hippy mindset that seems to be prevalent amongst spinners and you're likely to get people who don't bother with computers and instead go live in a commune somewhere in outer mongolia.
Obviously that's exaggerating slightly, but there're plenty of reasons why people wouldn't be using a computer - they're not compulsory for people who don't work with them and some people never started to appreciate the internet in the first place and so have never had a chance to stop appreciating it.
I certainly don't think being on hop is a waste of time and only for beginners. I'd like to think that in ten years time I'll still be here, because I have alot of friends here
EDITED_BY: TheBovrilMonkey (1109561521)
That's kind of what I was getting at - the cg gurus had no choice but to learn how to use a computer.
I know plenty of people who refuse to learn for some reason or another, they don't need to so they spend their time doing something else instead.
Add the lack of computer skills needed for spinning and the hippy mindset that seems to be prevalent amongst spinners and you're likely to get people who don't bother with computers and instead go live in a commune somewhere in outer mongolia.
Obviously that's exaggerating slightly, but there're plenty of reasons why people wouldn't be using a computer - they're not compulsory for people who don't work with them and some people never started to appreciate the internet in the first place and so have never had a chance to stop appreciating it.
I certainly don't think being on hop is a waste of time and only for beginners. I'd like to think that in ten years time I'll still be here, because I have alot of friends here
EDITED_BY: TheBovrilMonkey (1109561521)
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
SILVER Member
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
Posted:
There are also quite a few who didn't successfully get that far. Not all 2d artists/animators can translate their skills to the computer. (pray for the 2D department at Disney; hundreds of the best traditional animators in the world got thrown out with the bathwater last year, where the heck are they going to go??) The amount of study it takes to make that transition all the way from being a good 2d animator to being an art director on a pioneering CG film is...... is.... god it boggles the mind. *shudder* That's not a matter of choice or no choice, it's genius. Like having multiple PhDs.
Hmm... it's tough to compare those types of people with poi folks. Specially if they're hippies out talkin to squirrels.
Darn hippies!! They need to cut their hair and shower and come get online and teach us things!
There are also quite a few who didn't successfully get that far. Not all 2d artists/animators can translate their skills to the computer. (pray for the 2D department at Disney; hundreds of the best traditional animators in the world got thrown out with the bathwater last year, where the heck are they going to go??) The amount of study it takes to make that transition all the way from being a good 2d animator to being an art director on a pioneering CG film is...... is.... god it boggles the mind. *shudder* That's not a matter of choice or no choice, it's genius. Like having multiple PhDs.
Hmm... it's tough to compare those types of people with poi folks. Specially if they're hippies out talkin to squirrels.
Darn hippies!! They need to cut their hair and shower and come get online and teach us things! "Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X
GOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Posted:
You know, to be completely honest...
I haven't got much in terms of "technical" off HoP or other spinning sites. I learn from other people and trying new things myself and thinking it over.
What I do get from HoP is motivation and inspiration to keep doing it, and know that others appreciate the same things I do.
That's what I get from HoP.
You know, to be completely honest...
I haven't got much in terms of "technical" off HoP or other spinning sites. I learn from other people and trying new things myself and thinking it over.
What I do get from HoP is motivation and inspiration to keep doing it, and know that others appreciate the same things I do.
That's what I get from HoP.
To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Yes, Dragon7 I did mean Traditional Maori poi. I was being slack. So, how or where did you guys learn all the different techniques you use now?
I started watching fire-dancing at confest in 1994/95, and it was relatively new in oz then, so I’d go 10-15 years for staff. But it’s really only been in the last 5 or 6 years that fire chains have become POPULAR, well down south anyhow. Perhaps some of our northern NSW and Queensland friends can fill in the gaps.
Yes, Dragon7 I did mean Traditional Maori poi. I was being slack. So, how or where did you guys learn all the different techniques you use now?
I started watching fire-dancing at confest in 1994/95, and it was relatively new in oz then, so I’d go 10-15 years for staff. But it’s really only been in the last 5 or 6 years that fire chains have become POPULAR, well down south anyhow. Perhaps some of our northern NSW and Queensland friends can fill in the gaps.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
SILVER Member
Are you up for it??
349 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Are you up for it??
349 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
"master" depends on perspective, if its from thinking "hey that looks cool" well, being a person whos only being doing it a week, just about anybody would be a master to me. but true masters, I agree with the comments made about the 1 in NZ being doing it for 20 yrs etc.
It seems that a few people get too into who can do how many different moves and yet I've learnt more from ideas from vids and having fun than anything else
Will definately check out Robert Heart in the search function though.....
"master" depends on perspective, if its from thinking "hey that looks cool" well, being a person whos only being doing it a week, just about anybody would be a master to me. but true masters, I agree with the comments made about the 1 in NZ being doing it for 20 yrs etc.
It seems that a few people get too into who can do how many different moves and yet I've learnt more from ideas from vids and having fun than anything else
Will definately check out Robert Heart in the search function though.....
Are you up for it?;)
GOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
learn from the master and one day you two will be able to spin at 90 mph
Written by: flash fire
There is a master, but only one. There can be only one. His name is Robert Heart
learn from the master and one day you two will be able to spin at 90 mph
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
i have three personal masters, whether they like it or not:
glass
dom
blackass (student teaches teacher)
(edit: also mr R. Heart, for teaching me how to not behave when ego is catching up on you)
and STILL have never met a better spinner, in mindset or physicality, than the best hoppers in a LOT of travelling
EDITED_BY: bluecat (1109583173)
Written by: Dragon7
. Master = a person you show upmost respect for their dedication to the art, not just their skill lvl.
i have three personal masters, whether they like it or not:
glass
dom
blackass (student teaches teacher)
(edit: also mr R. Heart, for teaching me how to not behave when ego is catching up on you)
and STILL have never met a better spinner, in mindset or physicality, than the best hoppers in a LOT of travelling
EDITED_BY: bluecat (1109583173)
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
SILVER Member
enthusiast
270 posts
Location: USA
enthusiast
270 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
I've done my share of travelling and have been fortunate enough to meet some great spinners... and been inspired by their spinning in many ways. But if you listen to some of these guys that many spinners look up to (bluecat, arashi, matt (poipoipoi or spherculist),Nick Woolsey (meenik)), they will all tell you that they are not masters - that we are all just learning. And as Bluecat has just pointed out, at some point even the best learn a lot from beginners.
Spinning is not like CG... there isn't some sort of clear goal (a realistic effect?)... different people do it for different reasons and seek different things. The easiest thing to talk about online is the technical aspects, and that's why you'll see a lot of it here. It also takes a lot of time, and can be social... so that's why there's a lot of random social chatter here too. But everyone is on their own journey.
Some people are really into the juggling aspects of it - the object manipulation, the technical tricks, etc. etc. Some don't care if they can't even do the 3 beat weave. Some like fire. Some people like to look badass "Grrrowl! I wear black leather and I spin FIRE!" and don't really worry about learning tricks. For many it's meditative and spiritual, teaching lessons about respect for fire, about movement, about the flow of energy. Some just really like to dance with poi, either as a form of expression or just as a way to shake their booty. Some people reeeally like tails and having them buzz around them in wide orbits. Others love socks swinging close to their bodies. I've met people who are ALL about choreographed routines, while others are ALL about improvisation and flow. Some people are obnoxiously competitive, some like to show off, some are social, and others keep to themselves. I could go on for ever here... but many of us also like all of those things.
Circus freaks, dancers, goths, hippies, yuppies, jugglers, flowsters, martial artists, geezers, punks...
You can learn from all of these people, or you can waste your time trying to find the masters. Why would you want to try to copy someone else when you can be yourself -- the sum of all of your influences?
I've done my share of travelling and have been fortunate enough to meet some great spinners... and been inspired by their spinning in many ways. But if you listen to some of these guys that many spinners look up to (bluecat, arashi, matt (poipoipoi or spherculist),Nick Woolsey (meenik)), they will all tell you that they are not masters - that we are all just learning. And as Bluecat has just pointed out, at some point even the best learn a lot from beginners.
Spinning is not like CG... there isn't some sort of clear goal (a realistic effect?)... different people do it for different reasons and seek different things. The easiest thing to talk about online is the technical aspects, and that's why you'll see a lot of it here. It also takes a lot of time, and can be social... so that's why there's a lot of random social chatter here too. But everyone is on their own journey.
Some people are really into the juggling aspects of it - the object manipulation, the technical tricks, etc. etc. Some don't care if they can't even do the 3 beat weave. Some like fire. Some people like to look badass "Grrrowl! I wear black leather and I spin FIRE!" and don't really worry about learning tricks. For many it's meditative and spiritual, teaching lessons about respect for fire, about movement, about the flow of energy. Some just really like to dance with poi, either as a form of expression or just as a way to shake their booty. Some people reeeally like tails and having them buzz around them in wide orbits. Others love socks swinging close to their bodies. I've met people who are ALL about choreographed routines, while others are ALL about improvisation and flow. Some people are obnoxiously competitive, some like to show off, some are social, and others keep to themselves. I could go on for ever here... but many of us also like all of those things.
Circus freaks, dancers, goths, hippies, yuppies, jugglers, flowsters, martial artists, geezers, punks...
You can learn from all of these people, or you can waste your time trying to find the masters. Why would you want to try to copy someone else when you can be yourself -- the sum of all of your influences?
DIAMOND Member
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
:redface no, no not me.: I've only been in his game for 9 years,
If I can keep this up for another 40, then I might be getting somewhere
What orbit said very well, I like your accepting view which is accepting of all other views
I agree with that, Except the last paragraph,
Where for me (personally) at the moment, I think it is very good thing to
Seek out the masters. and to learn from them
As for COL, I think COL 1 to 4 other than a few notable exceptions mostly suck - not worth the money.
and COL 5 is the one to buy, as it has a generally much higher standard of spinning
Theres some truely fantastic spins on there.
Andreas/ PoiBox/ father and son
Who is a really nice guy. And awsum spinning technique.
finally....
The most beautiful spin I've ever seen was done by someone who never came near HOP....
:redface no, no not me.:
I've only been in his game for 9 years, If I can keep this up for another 40, then I might be getting somewhere
What orbit said very well, I like your accepting view which is accepting of all other views
I agree with that, Except the last paragraph,
Where for me (personally) at the moment, I think it is very good thing to
Seek out the masters. and to learn from them
As for COL, I think COL 1 to 4 other than a few notable exceptions mostly suck - not worth the money.
and COL 5 is the one to buy, as it has a generally much higher standard of spinning
Theres some truely fantastic spins on there.
Andreas/ PoiBox/ father and son
Who is a really nice guy. And awsum spinning technique.
finally....
The most beautiful spin I've ever seen was done by someone who never came near HOP....
SILVER Member
enthusiast
270 posts
Location: USA
enthusiast
270 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
Okay, I have to admit that I'm probably most guilty of going out of my way to seek out good spinners. I'm also known as something of a shameless name-dropper... Actually, it's amazing how many great spinners I've met and then proceeded to NOT see them spin (eg Glass at the London Juggling Convention, where he didn't pick up any poi from what I could see). And more often than not, I've met some these people when I wasn't really expecting to...
Okay, I have to admit that I'm probably most guilty of going out of my way to seek out good spinners. I'm also known as something of a shameless name-dropper... Actually, it's amazing how many great spinners I've met and then proceeded to NOT see them spin (eg Glass at the London Juggling Convention, where he didn't pick up any poi from what I could see). And more often than not, I've met some these people when I wasn't really expecting to...
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
If I had to sum it up.
I’d say,
Become Your Own Jedi Master By Sticking To The Path You Have Chosen.
Get out to some fire circles
Look in the meet-up sections
EDITED_BY: Stone (1109596965)
If I had to sum it up.
I’d say,
Become Your Own Jedi Master By Sticking To The Path You Have Chosen.
Get out to some fire circles
Look in the meet-up sections
EDITED_BY: Stone (1109596965)
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I think that there are several factors which influence my respect for someone's poi spinning.
1) How good they are.
2) How much they understand theory.
3) How much they give back to the community.
I think on those three criteria, folks like Sperculist's Matt stand out far above many others.
People like Bluecat who organize staff workshops and other things in his community and Dom who busts his butt on this site as well as hearding kittens in London gets a nod.
But Glass giving it all up to swingdance makes him a sellout.
No, I'm certainly not going to turn this into a list.
I think some folks may not prioritize "giving back to the community" but it's something that I try and do and my main contribution in my area. I may not be great or understand everything, but I am decent at hearding kittens and explaining what I know.
Sometimes it makes me sad to think of the number of hours I've taught others vs. the number of hours I've been taught. Maybe that would explain why I've plateaued for so long. Then again, it's fun to see people smile when you've taught them something. But that's a topic for another time.
I think that there are several factors which influence my respect for someone's poi spinning.
1) How good they are.
2) How much they understand theory.
3) How much they give back to the community.
I think on those three criteria, folks like Sperculist's Matt stand out far above many others.
People like Bluecat who organize staff workshops and other things in his community and Dom who busts his butt on this site as well as hearding kittens in London gets a nod.
But Glass giving it all up to swingdance makes him a sellout.
No, I'm certainly not going to turn this into a list.
I think some folks may not prioritize "giving back to the community" but it's something that I try and do and my main contribution in my area. I may not be great or understand everything, but I am decent at hearding kittens and explaining what I know.
Sometimes it makes me sad to think of the number of hours I've taught others vs. the number of hours I've been taught. Maybe that would explain why I've plateaued for so long. Then again, it's fun to see people smile when you've taught them something. But that's a topic for another time.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
*smiles at you for the teaching!*
If I thought I had anything to teach you at poi, or that you would've preferred learning German (probably the only thing I *can* teach anyone on here) to sitting next to Molly with that huge grin on your face, I would've tried
Written by: NYC
Then again, it's fun to see people smile when you've taught them something.
*smiles at you for the teaching!*
If I thought I had anything to teach you at poi, or that you would've preferred learning German (probably the only thing I *can* teach anyone on here
) to sitting next to Molly with that huge grin on your face, I would've tried "vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
Who are the jedi masters at herding kittens? I really want to go and learn from them, since I have to do a lot of herding myself. It's very hard work.
Who are the jedi masters at herding kittens? I really want to go and learn from them, since I have to do a lot of herding myself. It's very hard work.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I think I'm pretty darn good at herding kittens. Then again, I pretty much do it for a living. (No, put down the bunsen burner, no do not squirt the acid at your lab partner...)
I was watching you herd on Weds and would gladly offer pointers.
I think I'm pretty darn good at herding kittens. Then again, I pretty much do it for a living. (No, put down the bunsen burner, no do not squirt the acid at your lab partner...)
I was watching you herd on Weds and would gladly offer pointers.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
Threats, Bullying, Shouting and general meaness help. Turning off music and leading by example, not so great but still benefit. I wish people wouldn't take off their shoes.
Threats, Bullying, Shouting and general meaness help. Turning off music and leading by example, not so great but still benefit. I wish people wouldn't take off their shoes.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
GOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
take away their shoes and make them walk home in the icey streets of edinburgh and they will never take their shoes off again .... assuming their feet dont freeze onto teh pavement causing them to be stuck there until the spring causing them to wither and die cos that would be bad
take away their shoes and make them walk home in the icey streets of edinburgh and they will never take their shoes off again .... assuming their feet dont freeze onto teh pavement causing them to be stuck there until the spring causing them to wither and die cos that would be bad
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
GOLD Member
enthusiast
285 posts
Location: Paris 19e, France
enthusiast
285 posts
Location: Paris 19e, France
Posted:
Hey Stickman, thanks for including me in your list
but I'm way far from beeing a master, I'm a newbie (even after 3 years of poi) especially here on HoP
I think this fall under the category explained by OWD ("you go traveling and are blown away by a complete stranger doing moves that aren't necessarily more complex than those of the preceeding group, but, cos they've not be seen before, their mastery is exagerated") .. as you probably had never seen anyone doing isolation or some of the crosser moves I was doing, when I visited Amsterdam last january
As already said many times, the older you grow, the more you discovers the multidimensions of poi. therefore we'll always be beginners
I do think the same as NYC for the respect things:
"1) How good they are.
2) How much they understand theory.
3) How much they give back to the community"
very true
I'm not planning to make a list of the ppl I classify as Masters .. I have met so few of you .. yet
Hey Stickman, thanks for including me in your list
but I'm way far from beeing a master, I'm a newbie (even after 3 years of poi) especially here on HoP
I think this fall under the category explained by OWD ("you go traveling and are blown away by a complete stranger doing moves that aren't necessarily more complex than those of the preceeding group, but, cos they've not be seen before, their mastery is exagerated") .. as you probably had never seen anyone doing isolation or some of the crosser moves I was doing, when I visited Amsterdam last january
As already said many times, the older you grow, the more you discovers the multidimensions of poi. therefore we'll always be beginners
I do think the same as NYC for the respect things:
"1) How good they are.
2) How much they understand theory.
3) How much they give back to the community"
very true
I'm not planning to make a list of the ppl I classify as Masters .. I have met so few of you .. yet
BRONZE Member
Living it up
363 posts
Location: Brisbane/Berlin, Australia
Living it up
363 posts
Location: Brisbane/Berlin, Australia
Posted:
Gnarly Cranium
Some good observations there.
These yodas seem to be a rare find. I am assuming that you are wondering about these people because you want to learn.
You might have to go to a good deal of trouble to find them. In the meantime, you could always prepare yourself. A couple of thoughts, sorry if they are unwanted advice.
Are you very clear on what/why you want to learn? Might help in the big scheme of things.
You sound like you have other areas of expertise. Don't be afriad to twist them to your circle playage. It'll get you thinking well outside of the box.
& Stuff,
Kyle
Gnarly Cranium
Some good observations there.
These yodas seem to be a rare find. I am assuming that you are wondering about these people because you want to learn.
You might have to go to a good deal of trouble to find them. In the meantime, you could always prepare yourself. A couple of thoughts, sorry if they are unwanted advice.
Are you very clear on what/why you want to learn? Might help in the big scheme of things.
You sound like you have other areas of expertise. Don't be afriad to twist them to your circle playage. It'll get you thinking well outside of the box.
& Stuff,Kyle
Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film
SILVER Member
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
Posted:
Art is art. Not all CGers are out to do 'realist effects'. Some very famous ones do totally abstract gallery work. Some make their own short films. Some make comic-style paintings, some do graphic art for ads and websites, some scribble out concept art... some is realistic, some stylized, some high res and elaborate and some low res for games-- there is a TON of variety. (although weirdly for some reason there are almost no women doing it, and most of the folks in the industry are geeks, so that cuts down a bit on the range of people involved)
I also don't mean to start any lists or arguments on the subject, I just wanted to know the reasons, and challenge statements like:
Written by: Orbit
Spinning is not like CG... there isn't some sort of clear goal (a realistic effect?)... different people do it for different reasons and seek different things. The easiest thing to talk about online is the technical aspects, and that's why you'll see a lot of it here. It also takes a lot of time, and can be social... so that's why there's a lot of random social chatter here too. But everyone is on their own journey.
Art is art. Not all CGers are out to do 'realist effects'. Some very famous ones do totally abstract gallery work. Some make their own short films. Some make comic-style paintings, some do graphic art for ads and websites, some scribble out concept art... some is realistic, some stylized, some high res and elaborate and some low res for games-- there is a TON of variety. (although weirdly for some reason there are almost no women doing it, and most of the folks in the industry are geeks, so that cuts down a bit on the range of people involved)
Written by: Kyle McLeanI'm wondering because an artistic community without clear gurus kinda confuses me. I just want to know the reasons, and sometime I'd like to see some videos of someone crazy good (even though it would probably depress me as much as anything else, heheh) I'm a total beginner, ANYbody could teach me new stuff, I don't need or deserve the personal attentions of a guru just yet.
I am assuming that you are wondering about these people because you want to learn.
I also don't mean to start any lists or arguments on the subject, I just wanted to know the reasons, and challenge statements like:
Written by: GlåssTHAT right there is EXACTLY what I mean. Why even say vague things like that? Who was this person?! WHY have they not been here? Will they come here sometime or what? Are they part of a troupe, a hobbyist, a professional, do they have any website or videos... or do they only come out once a year when the moon is at a certain angle in Saggitarius or something? Is there any proof they ever actually existed or was this something you saw in some mysterious deep dark european wood when you got lost late one night and wandered into some kind of bizarre twilight zone... like spotting a UFO?
The most beautiful spin I've ever seen was done by someone who never came near HOP....
"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X
GOLD Member
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
2,723 posts
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
2,723 posts
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Posted:
Fire spinning is art, yes, but trying to compare it to something like CG is very odd in my mind.
HoP is not the end-all be-all of fire spinning and fire performance. It is certainly a great place to start, but there are folks who have been perfomring with fire years before HoP was even a twinkle in Malcom's eye.
It is almost as if you think people considered Masters are required to share their art and knowldege....if I'm wrong, forgive me, but that is how this thread comes across.
The best spinners are going to be folks who don't flaunt it. People who don't want to be put on some sort of Master's list because they don't think they are worthy. I have more respect for those who I've seen who are good and silent than those who boast that they are good when they can't even compare to those who are much more reserved in their spinning.
The masters are out there, and some are on this list, they just don't know it, or flaunt it.
Fire spinning is art, yes, but trying to compare it to something like CG is very odd in my mind.
HoP is not the end-all be-all of fire spinning and fire performance. It is certainly a great place to start, but there are folks who have been perfomring with fire years before HoP was even a twinkle in Malcom's eye.
It is almost as if you think people considered Masters are required to share their art and knowldege....if I'm wrong, forgive me, but that is how this thread comes across.
The best spinners are going to be folks who don't flaunt it. People who don't want to be put on some sort of Master's list because they don't think they are worthy. I have more respect for those who I've seen who are good and silent than those who boast that they are good when they can't even compare to those who are much more reserved in their spinning.
The masters are out there, and some are on this list, they just don't know it, or flaunt it.
Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.
GOLD Member
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
The story of tiger lamb tells that before the monks would teach him kung fu he had to knock on the door for forty days and nights. not only that, he had to knock in a certain way...
he did it and whats more... he had a very strong punch
The story of tiger lamb tells that before the monks would teach him kung fu he had to knock on the door for forty days and nights. not only that, he had to knock in a certain way...
he did it and whats more... he had a very strong punch
Love is the law.
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
Written by Dragon 7
Wether YOU would consider her a master or not, dos'nt matter because i do. And others like her who have pored yrs into spreading the love, and sharing moves with everyone. Master = a person you show upmost respect for their dedication to the art, not just their skill lvl.
I'm with you...in my mind the masters are here, all around us. I've only ever met two people from this site ( PoiBox ll & Menick ) and from what I've seen, I'd consider them masters.
Have you ever really tried to understand some of the technical threads on this site?? well I have,,,and pissing contests aside,, there's quite a few people on this site who not only know their stuff but are more than willing to share it... masters?? yep. imo
Written by Dragon 7
Wether YOU would consider her a master or not, dos'nt matter because i do. And others like her who have pored yrs into spreading the love, and sharing moves with everyone. Master = a person you show upmost respect for their dedication to the art, not just their skill lvl.
I'm with you...in my mind the masters are here, all around us. I've only ever met two people from this site ( PoiBox ll & Menick ) and from what I've seen, I'd consider them masters.
Have you ever really tried to understand some of the technical threads on this site?? well I have,,,and pissing contests aside,, there's quite a few people on this site who not only know their stuff but are more than willing to share it... masters?? yep. imo
GOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Posted:
I think this was beautifully answered by Orbit's post.
A lot of (perhaps you can say spiritual masters) realize that if people truly want to make the effort to find them and learn, the people will get off their asses, computers, and look for them, or the people will look inside themselves and try to learn from their own thoughts and experiences. Those that I consider masters spin for fun and they spin for their own moment of zen. The outside world is merely a distraction.
Written by: Gnarly CraniumWritten by: GlåssTHAT right there is EXACTLY what I mean. Why even say vague things like that? Who was this person?! WHY have they not been here? Will they come here sometime or what? Are they part of a troupe, a hobbyist, a professional, do they have any website or videos... or do they only come out once a year when the moon is at a certain angle in Saggitarius or something? Is there any proof they ever actually existed or was this something you saw in some mysterious deep dark european wood when you got lost late one night and wandered into some kind of bizarre twilight zone... like spotting a UFO?
The most beautiful spin I've ever seen was done by someone who never came near HOP....
I think this was beautifully answered by Orbit's post.
Written by: orbit
I've done my share of travelling and have been fortunate enough to meet some great spinners... and been inspired by their spinning in many ways. But if you listen to some of these guys that many spinners look up to (bluecat, arashi, matt (poipoipoi or spherculist),Nick Woolsey (meenik)), they will all tell you that they are not masters - that we are all just learning. And as Bluecat has just pointed out, at some point even the best learn a lot from beginners.
Spinning is not like CG... there isn't some sort of clear goal (a realistic effect?)... different people do it for different reasons and seek different things. The easiest thing to talk about online is the technical aspects, and that's why you'll see a lot of it here. It also takes a lot of time, and can be social... so that's why there's a lot of random social chatter here too. But everyone is on their own journey.
Some people are really into the juggling aspects of it - the object manipulation, the technical tricks, etc. etc. Some don't care if they can't even do the 3 beat weave. Some like fire. Some people like to look badass "Grrrowl! I wear black leather and I spin FIRE!" and don't really worry about learning tricks. For many it's meditative and spiritual, teaching lessons about respect for fire, about movement, about the flow of energy. Some just really like to dance with poi, either as a form of expression or just as a way to shake their booty. Some people reeeally like tails and having them buzz around them in wide orbits. Others love socks swinging close to their bodies. I've met people who are ALL about choreographed routines, while others are ALL about improvisation and flow. Some people are obnoxiously competitive, some like to show off, some are social, and others keep to themselves. I could go on for ever here... but many of us also like all of those things.
Circus freaks, dancers, goths, hippies, yuppies, jugglers, flowsters, martial artists, geezers, punks...
You can learn from all of these people, or you can waste your time trying to find the masters. Why would you want to try to copy someone else when you can be yourself -- the sum of all of your influences?
A lot of (perhaps you can say spiritual masters) realize that if people truly want to make the effort to find them and learn, the people will get off their asses, computers, and look for them, or the people will look inside themselves and try to learn from their own thoughts and experiences. Those that I consider masters spin for fun and they spin for their own moment of zen. The outside world is merely a distraction.
To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire
GOLD Member
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
Posted:
The thing is this.
I started spinning because as i watched people spin I felt an overwhelming sensation that i knew how to do it already.
I enjoy mixing scientific logic with artistic emotion in everything i do. That's why i chose to work as a designer and that's why i got addicted to poi.
I figured there was a finite number of places and planes to spin. Then went and learnt almost every one i had imagined.
I had optimum circumstances for learning and accelerated quickly.
The further i got the more i began to understand how much more there was to learn.
For the first 3 years I felt like i was heading toward a point. I made absolutely certain i had firm foundations, this allowed me to test new theories easily and progress quickly.
IMO the best way to learn something is to teach it to someone else. I've taught a lot of people to spin poi and every time i've taught a 3 beat weave, my 3 beat weave has become tighter and my undertanding increased.
So I got tired of teaching the basics and started ¦s¦ so i could teach some advanced stuff. Hoping that eventually i would learn from the site myself.
Within about 4 months i had begun learning things from the community that grew up around the site.
¦s¦ seriously cut's in on my practice time tho and i have practiced maybe as little as half as much this year as last. I did squeeze in learning 2 diablo tho.
Anyhoo. In the past 12 months my sense of how much more there is to learn about poi has become almost overwhelming.
What i'm trying to say is stop looking for the 'masters'. You can discover everything there is to know about poi by yourself but if you get into the habit of rellying on ideas from others then it can be hard to aquire the skills for working the stuff out yourself.
When i talk of masters i'm talking about like chinese meteor masters that understood all this stuff 1000 years ago. None of it is new IMO. If you watch a kung fu sword form you'll notice they use all the same techniques as we do. So look outside of poi for your inspiration.
No real direction to this post ince i started it hours ago then forgot about it and had dinner.
I'm off,
m
The thing is this.
I started spinning because as i watched people spin I felt an overwhelming sensation that i knew how to do it already.
I enjoy mixing scientific logic with artistic emotion in everything i do. That's why i chose to work as a designer and that's why i got addicted to poi.
I figured there was a finite number of places and planes to spin. Then went and learnt almost every one i had imagined.
I had optimum circumstances for learning and accelerated quickly.
The further i got the more i began to understand how much more there was to learn.
For the first 3 years I felt like i was heading toward a point. I made absolutely certain i had firm foundations, this allowed me to test new theories easily and progress quickly.
IMO the best way to learn something is to teach it to someone else. I've taught a lot of people to spin poi and every time i've taught a 3 beat weave, my 3 beat weave has become tighter and my undertanding increased.
So I got tired of teaching the basics and started ¦s¦ so i could teach some advanced stuff. Hoping that eventually i would learn from the site myself.
Within about 4 months i had begun learning things from the community that grew up around the site.
¦s¦ seriously cut's in on my practice time tho and i have practiced maybe as little as half as much this year as last. I did squeeze in learning 2 diablo tho.
Anyhoo. In the past 12 months my sense of how much more there is to learn about poi has become almost overwhelming.
What i'm trying to say is stop looking for the 'masters'. You can discover everything there is to know about poi by yourself but if you get into the habit of rellying on ideas from others then it can be hard to aquire the skills for working the stuff out yourself.
When i talk of masters i'm talking about like chinese meteor masters that understood all this stuff 1000 years ago. None of it is new IMO. If you watch a kung fu sword form you'll notice they use all the same techniques as we do. So look outside of poi for your inspiration.
No real direction to this post ince i started it hours ago then forgot about it and had dinner.
I'm off,
m
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
for jedi Matt 
for jedi Matt Getting to the other side 
SILVER Member
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
Posted:
They're not required to share what they do, but in every other discipline I've ever heard of, be it dance-related or even scientific or sports or art or whatever, the people who are really good are identifiable. Whether they want to be on some list or not, whether they are humble or not, the community tends to know who they are... it's just a natural and inevitable state of things. I'm not on some kind of quest to find the guy up the mountain, I was just wondering why this sort of institution is not present for poi, as a matter of social curiosity.. and also wondering why everybody seems to take it for granted that they're going to be off talking to squirrels and mere mortals will never get to hear about them except in vague 'I saw this guy once on a mountain talking to squirrels, he was WICKED' hints.
I seem to have really put my foot in a wee nest of defensiveness and conflicting theories and misunderstandings here, and the thread is taking off to debate things I wasn't even really suggesting. I've gotten as much of an answer as I really needed (the short time frame thing), so I'm going to leave it be.
They're not required to share what they do, but in every other discipline I've ever heard of, be it dance-related or even scientific or sports or art or whatever, the people who are really good are identifiable. Whether they want to be on some list or not, whether they are humble or not, the community tends to know who they are... it's just a natural and inevitable state of things. I'm not on some kind of quest to find the guy up the mountain, I was just wondering why this sort of institution is not present for poi, as a matter of social curiosity.. and also wondering why everybody seems to take it for granted that they're going to be off talking to squirrels and mere mortals will never get to hear about them except in vague 'I saw this guy once on a mountain talking to squirrels, he was WICKED' hints.
I seem to have really put my foot in a wee nest of defensiveness and conflicting theories and misunderstandings here, and the thread is taking off to debate things I wasn't even really suggesting. I've gotten as much of an answer as I really needed (the short time frame thing), so I'm going to leave it be.
"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X
GOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Posted:
The simplest answer is quite much like...
We poists simply do not care.
You know more moves than I do, may I learn? I know moves you don't, want me to show it to you?
Like matt said, even those of us who have been spinning and teaching for years, we have newbies show us new things all the time. Because there's simply so much and many different styles, and artists think differently.
If this weren't such an egoless community I doubt I'd be posting here.
So my question for you is, why does it matter if there are "poi masters" or not?
:EDIT- as for those poi masters up in the mountains talking to squirrels and smoking pot... good for em I'm too busy practicing to try and hunt them with my stun gun.
EDITED_BY: KaelGotRice (1109627999)
The simplest answer is quite much like...
We poists simply do not care.
You know more moves than I do, may I learn? I know moves you don't, want me to show it to you?
Like matt said, even those of us who have been spinning and teaching for years, we have newbies show us new things all the time. Because there's simply so much and many different styles, and artists think differently.
If this weren't such an egoless community I doubt I'd be posting here.
So my question for you is, why does it matter if there are "poi masters" or not?
:EDIT- as for those poi masters up in the mountains talking to squirrels and smoking pot... good for em
I'm too busy practicing to try and hunt them with my stun gun.EDITED_BY: KaelGotRice (1109627999)
To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire
SILVER Member
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
Posted:
Written by: KaelGotRiceThat's like a student painter not ever visiting an art museum, and never looking at any pieces other than those made by their friends. To me that just doesn't compute. Yes I know everyone can learn from everyone else, and learn studying on their own-- and easily-- but that's not the issue I'm examining here at all.
We poists simply do not care.
Written by: KaelGotRiceIt matters because I wanted to know why the structure of the poi community was so different from what I've seen everywhere else. It wasn't a philosophical/wanting teaching/ego/who's best/etc question, it was purely a social mechanics question, and I'm pretty sure I got a clear answer.
So my question for you is, why does it matter if there are "poi masters" or not?
"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X
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