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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide

Total posts: 2474
Posted:and what toys are u planning on playing with?

im planning on putting in two entrys this year one as the derik troy take on meg and one as me. with much single long staff and double long staff. for my entry im planning on setting up a circle of lantens in an artificial sand bank for sunset, with any luck ill be able to get the lovely josh and kate to have a play and submit and entry to. the derik troy take on meg id love to explain whats thats going to entail but if i did that would spoil the fun for meg smile

also a volunteer is required to poke rob with a stick each day until he submits his col entry, any takers? meg?


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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Socks
BRONZE Member since Nov 2004

Socks

Arf! Can I have a biscut?
Location: North America, Mid West

Total posts: 288
Posted:**waves a paw** I've got ideas....

Socks


I'm weird. Just work through that and we'll all be fine.

"If you are a dog and your owner suggests that you wear a sweater suggest that he wear a tail." - Fran Lebowitz

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TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:I won't enter a video to col 6. I bought 3 and 4 a while back and was really excited to watch them. Then i figured, if i wanted to see home movies of someone spinning poi then i might as well watch my own. I mean it's great that something like col exists but to be honest i think hop should pay every entry a minimum of 250 (US $500) for their entries ~ or share profits to the performers. I mean when you consider the prize is stuff from the shop at retail price, the value to hop is less than a quarter of that at distributor price, let alone manufacturer price.

I don't mean to sound like a kill joy and i doubt hop makes that much profit from col but i just think its a bit rude ~ and i think that's why the performers are rarely the best around.

m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Poipoipoi, that was rude. And in fact, the productions costs that Malcolm incurrs is alot higher than you think, especially thanks to the whole music issue and the time/labour it takes to actually review everything everyone sends in, choose what goes on the video, edit that, edit the music, piece it all together, add any graphics, design and print the cover.

These are not as cheap to make as a cd. Keep that in mind when you are being overly critical and mean.



It's a contest video. If you expected professional videography and performances, then you did not read the description very well.



There are not really that much of profits to share, and paying for each entry, well that opens a whole new realm of legal issues for copyright purchase and such. What you are talking would cost alot more than the video costs to make, thus making it a void project that alot of people have enjoyed over the course of time. This project is about sharing primarily, not about winning and making a profit from it. You want to do that, then make your own video and try to sell it.



Sorry, hijack over.



I am going against my own rules and entering a submission, but it is not at all what you might expect and it will not be part of the vote.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide

Total posts: 2474
Posted:matt does have a point, the standard in the uk is definately well above the entrys that appear on col with a few exceptions rhd springs to mind, the reason im putting in an entry isnt to win or even so much to share knowledge so much but more to support malcolm and what he does with the site, ive learnt loads through the people ive met hehe and the horrid text descriptions ive read.



hopefully by giving him more well shot material to work with the quality will keep on improving to a point where even people who have been spinning for years will sit down watch the whole thing and have to pick their jaw up after. that and meg and i cant have our pose off without a big audience cos well whats posing without an audience biggrin



i think theres a lack of entrys simply because it takes effort to do it and ppl live busy lives.



i personally dont mind not recieving money for entering col simply because of the community it helps fund, bearing in mind this is something a large majority of us do for fun and that malcolm does as a job, i think the staffs that are sold are rubbish and beamers are leathal but hey no ones perfect wink. i think malcolm has created something magic in hop which costs us nothing to use, hop has definately enhanced my travels and introduced me to some of the loveliest people ive met



malcolm might possibly consider offering reimbursment to artists at a set rate towards costs incured in videos that are deemed to have been filmed professionally, ie at the beach during sunset, in a forrest with external lighting, daytime spinning with a waterfall as a background, pan around ontop of a mountain etc naturally all with 3ccd broadcast quality camera to help encourage ppl to submit quality entrys.



id just like to add for ppl putting in entrys getting an entry filmed professionally doesnt cost that much if u hunt around i found a guy with a panning rig and nice 3ccd camera who will film for $50 an hour. $50 for some nice footage of you spinning (preferably at sunset so theres loads of natural light still) isnt that much



matt your one of the best poi spinners i met in the uk, u have a very unique style, your one of the few ppl i actually sat and watched spin poi for more than 30 seconds (what can i say poi doesnt do it for me) i think youve got some amazing skills to share and i think col 6 would be much better with you on it than without. so get off your lazy ass and send a video in tongue hug2 biggrin


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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Nate
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

Nate

Groovy ga watashi no namae desu!
Location: Oxford, Oxfordshire, England

Total posts: 1530
Posted:when have the entrys got to be sent in by, so i can think of something to enter?????

I like Languages.

Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />

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TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:pele, calm down, i'm not being rude. I'm raising a point in regard to the reason i see that the quality of spinning on col isn't all that. As it happens it was after reading your post over here
that prompted me to write this post.

I have a lot of respect for hop and what malcolm has done with the site and the community. All i'm saying is that i expected more from my col 3 and col 4 videos for the money they cost me.

I can burn 2000 dvd's for under 2000 ~ with cover and case, i can print 2000 little booklets to go inside for under 400 ~ So for 2400 I get say 15,000 worth of stock ~ vhs is more expensive and balkier to store and send but i think it is you pele who is over estimating the cost of production.

It's the quality and quantity of content that needs to be addressed.

Granted capture and editing is very time consuming but it shouldn't take more than a couple weeks ~ even if you pay someone half decent this is only gonna cost 1,000

Music is a bummer. Tricky to sort out.

Then of course you have overheads.

I'll let you into a little secret. I did actually edit together a piece in time for col5 but it is heavily edited, 10 minutes long with commersial music ~ not very suitable.

I'm glad to see i've pursuaded you to enter a video this year pele, i think you might have pursuaded me to release a little video of my own wink

Ben, i look forward to seeing your video too, but come on ~ lazy ~ i've catalogued and released over 200 video clips in the passed 12 months, and i'll have a nice new camcorder in a couple weeks, just in time for the new set of vids to be produced.

catch you on the flip side

m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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Spanner
BRONZE Member since Feb 2003

Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...

Total posts: 2790
Posted:Written by: PoiPoiPoi


I mean it's great that something like col exists but to be honest i think hop should pay every entry a minimum of 250 (US $500) for their entries ~ or share profits to the performers.





I see your point and it's something I've thought of before, but I think if people wanted profits in return for their entry, they wouldn't submit a video. Yet, every year there's enough entries to make a decent COL due to a lot of submissions from those who contribute merely for the honour of being on COL and providing entertainment to their fellow spinners.



I don't see that there's an actual problem there smile


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Total posts: 1017
Posted:After giving this much thought I have decided COL6 is cancelled

"May your balls always burn"

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: Malcolm


edited***.



Thanks for all the COL's Malcolm; along with HOP in general they've been a big inspiration to many, many spinners.



They're much appreciated smile



----------------



I can understand what some people are saying about wanting higher quality and better filmed entries, but I think one of the charms of COL is that it's pretty accessible to anyone with a camera (or a friend with a camera) and some decent spinning skills.



While it may be cheap and easy in some places to hire a professional to film your entry, I suspect that for many spinners, it won't be.



And if the performers who appear on COL aren't necessarily the best around- is that a big deal?



Presumably those of that high standard are getting exposure in the shows they do etc, which leaves room for those who may not have costumes, cash and advanced camera hardware, but who possess skills and enthusiasm.



(Like many of the Sheffield-based spinners who have featured in most years of the COL series).


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:I posted that last one before I saw your last one Malcolm.

Sad to hear the news about COL6, but I'll leave the post up anyway.

I'm sure some of the posts which have come across as critical weren't intended as such, and, if people had known that some of the COLs had made a loss, they wouldn't have posted them.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:oh malcolm please don't cancel col6, the col series are great in thier own right and i know it is super hard putting stuff like this together, all i'm saying is that you are in a position to make something really amazing.

The whole money thing is just because i once got royally stiched up by someone making a poi video.

Look i just get upset when things seem to be getting a little stale, i just wanna see the most badass col video ever. One that makes my jaw drop open, y'know.

It's just that most of the top notch spinners i know wouldn't send a video in for col, that's an issue which i think needs to be addressed.

Come on man, don't cancel col6 ~ it's an institution.

matt


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:actually, poi3 is correct, we should get paid for entering. And since we are getting paid for it, we can also help pay for the bandwidth we are using up on Malcolm's server, and help pay production costs for the video, oh and advertising, and electricity, and Malcolm's labor (time is money you know)

ubblol


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Dragon7
GOLD Member since Oct 2003

Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ)

Total posts: 625
Posted:I formally relinquish my title as "sith lord" and hand the title to poipoipoi

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TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:Well, I never seen this much interest in a col video before so someone must be doing something right wink

Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:fnf - fluffy poi smile

Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Well, I was going to do some CJ - but it seems I'm not allowed frown

Don't think my poi or staff can really offer anything new or original so I don't think I'll be putting an entry in for this one... (again wink )


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:The wee irish fire community might put something in... if we ever manage to get a break in the clouds long enough to do some filming biggrin



We won't be as sh!t hot as you guys, but hey, we're new biggrin hug



PS: Durbs, you're infinitely better than us... so come on, don't be shy


Getting to the other side smile

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bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:Written by: ben-ja-men


also a volunteer is required to poke rob with a stick each day until he submits his col entry, any takers? meg?




umm

watch it, you.
or i might enter
ubbangel


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:POKE POKE POKE

you like that?

you want some more of that?

SAY MY NAME 814@#!!!

:evil:


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:spank

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:so bluecats going to spank dj dantana while dantana pokes him?

I don't want to be involved in this circle.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:*turns up with baby oil and table-tennis bat*

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Perverts tongue

Getting to the other side smile

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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide

Total posts: 2474
Posted:Written by: bluecat

watch it, you.
or i might enter
ubbangel



ok well we tried to do it the nice way ......

on my mark

.....

wait for it

....

wait for it

.....

commence operation pokerobalotuntilhegiggleslikeagirlygirlorsubmitsavideoentry

biggrin their coming for you rob ..... when you least expect it hug


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:Written by: spherculist

it's great that something like col exists but to be honest i think hop should pay every entry a minimum of 250 (US $500) for their entries ~ or share profits to the performers.



i think that's truly a very bizarre idea matt confused

do you plan to pay similar amounts to those that appear on the |s| dvd...?

and just as sidenote, col5 was the best yet - i didn't buy the others but 5 is definitely worth the money (i.e. much less than a commercial dvd costs).

wave


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4993
Posted:Written by: coleman

do you plan to pay similar amounts to those that appear on the |s| dvd...?



i'd enter the |s| one if i was getting paid... seems its a good idea for one and not for another.... i see now diferenciaries [sp] between the two ideas... one just has more toys allowed. ubblol


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:I don't know quite where that came from actually. I was in a particularly arsey mood that day. The point was to do a profit share, which is exactly what i'm gonna try to do for the sphism dvd. So Yes if you get on the dvd you will get paid an equal share of any profits, probably weighted by how long you are on the vid for. I've got to sort out the details. But there will be 2 sections to the dvd. 1 section requires no great skill, little time and effort, the other requires a lot of skill and time and effort. So the performers in the later section will all be paid from any profit made, i.e the video is Not For Profit. So people could well make 250 each. That figure was taken from the minimum wage recommended for extras in film. What i'm not sure how to deal with is if the dvd makes a loss. Cos i bet no one would share the debt with me wink

The thing is, if i were to enter a video for hop I would want it to be as good as i could possibly make it. As far as poi goes i'm certainly no professional, but as far as graphics and video goes I am. I might spend say 100 hours on it and use thousands of pounds worth of equipment. From a professional point of view 250 is a kind gesture for the effort put in.

Now I realise it's not about the money, but i simply don't have a 100 hours spare at the moment.

I realise that post made me sound like a complete a$$hole, i once narrowly avoided being completely stitched up by guy making a poi video, which made me a little over sensitive on the subject.

Pk, you'll notice a few more differences than that, but you'll just have to wait and see what i've got planned wink

Take it easy,

m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4993
Posted:*anxious* :roll:

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:Written by: spherculist


The thing is, if i were to enter a video for hop I would want it to be as good as i could possibly make it. As far as poi goes i'm certainly no professional, but as far as graphics and video goes I am. I might spend say 100 hours on it and use thousands of pounds worth of equipment. From a professional point of view 250 is a kind gesture for the effort put in.





fair enough dude.



but to be fair, if you can pick out a col entry where you think that is the case, i'd be extremely suprised.



the most professionally shot segment on col5 was (imho) the really good german girl with firefingers who did poi with pyros too.



but i would guarantee you that she didn't just use that for her col entry - i bet that it is part of her main promotional material.



does anyone who has actually been on col feel that they deserved to have been paid for it...?





i think thats a pretty noble thing to do trying to share profit from the |s| dvd but i reckon you should follow malcolm's lead and use the profits to contribute to the community.

if people are looking to get paid to spin on film, they should register with an agency.

besides, like you point out, the financial risk rests on your shoulders - a free copy of the dvd is all i would ask for if i submitted an entry smile



on another note, i've heard a similar stories about dodgy business practices and a cheapskate shyster taking video and then lowering the performers' fees substantially after the footage is on tape.

the person's name who messed you around before over the poi vid - any chance his name began with a 'p'...?





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:yeah coleman, and the company name is like my old username ~ a mutal aquantance of cath and me.



He's a friggin A$$HOLE,



Used to ring me and hastle me in the mornings before work, i caught him filming me spinning meteor once as well ~ kinda wished he'd used it so i could screw him sideways.



He was always very interested to take a close look at my toys.



He told everyone there was a load of people meeting up to spin fire on the beach, free fuel. Then filmed everyone and put them in his video.



I'll ask everyone what they think about profit share and so on. I could put the money toward the site but the only thing that costs me money is the time i take off work to sort it out. I have a great deal on my server and called in a lot of favours for the original filming.



I'm gonna be upgrading my software and buying a camcorder for s, so we'll see how people feel.



ANyways coleman, you get a free dvd whether you're in it or not. I learnt a lot from watching you spin back in the day.



The goal is to set sphism up as a 'not for profit organisation', so i think i'll try the profit share and see if it works. Also i like the idea because it means the more effort you put in to making your video the more return you should get. And we're only talking about maybe 1-2 an hour or something.



I agree that this wouldn't necessarily work for col, but s is a little different you know.



m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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