Forums > Social Discussion > religion

Posted: 18th Jan 2005
thats deep dude real deep, personally i am some one who believs in nothing i dont feel there is a higher power, or anything like that, as for animals, i dont think it is mentally possible for animals to believe in a religion since their entire train of thought derives from the most basic of instincts reproduce and survive, humans are a dumb species because they believ so deeply in their own superiority they cant see that they do seriously stupid things, i know i basically bagged myself but hey its true atleast i can admit im a dumb animal.

"Only fools are positive! are you sure? Im POSITIVE"

Posted: 18th Jan 2005
Every species has something to fear,and when we topped the food chain, tamed fire etc etc etc, we looked up at the sky and thought "there's a lot of that up there",and we invented religion as a way to express the thought that we may be superior here, but where else may there be? Its born of a sense of our superiority, and an innate sense of inferiority i.e, we cant quite believe we are so powerful. Look at general human nature, its changed little in 10000 years. We still have a tendancy to bend at the knees.
Its all abstract anyway, and besides, when the first guy thought there is a "god",and the second guy said "prove it", and the first guy killed him. Go figure.

Im making no sense.I'll stop now before i hurt myself trying too hard to think... Besides i'll never be on the same plane as Brain,anyways! You are just too deep man!

ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!

Posted: 18th Jan 2005
I recommend you read Douglas Adams’ speech titled “Is there an artificial god?” It’s long but well worth it:

https://www.biota.org/people/douglasadams/


Basically he says that Mans concept for a god is A) flawed and B) it originates from the concept that we are somehow more important than everything else or that we are here for a reason. This is of cause flawed as well.

Read it though, he said it better than I ever could!

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

Posted: 19th Jan 2005
religion is a man made construct of control.

Its like the original party politics.

Why do you think they have to read a book to truely be a member of a faith (unless you are into the whacked (celebrity) version of Kabballah)?

Surely An omnipitent being could make himself known regardless of written word?

I think it was a guy called Feurbach who noted the evolution of religion as a pointer to its manmadeness. i.e in the beginning/when man first got spiritual, he had a god for lots of things, (see greeks, romans, egyptians) and those gods all had to be appeased. gradually, man thought this most unfulfilling, as they were doing all the giving of sacrifices and trinkets, and the gods used them as playthings.

so monotheism was created, where there was only one supreme being who cared for the people and wanted to have a relationship with them (not just play with them)

I think Feurbach didnt like christian religion because people basically personified all the positive things they would like to be themselves but couldnt into a diety, rather than concentrating on bringing out those qualities in themselves regardless of faith.

To wrap up, I think you can see mans involvement in the fact that they all have strings attached, all work on a 'all or nothing' basis. Surely a god who really wanted his people to have freewill wouldnt have put such strings in place?

My apologise if I have offended with my views. I think religion (and mans abuse of the spiritual and moral messages that they contain that hold true merit) is one of the biggest causes of our problems, and I find it scary. The inability to really think for yourself.

Then we are back to control.

Sorry for teh rambly rant.

My Mummy Says Im Special

Posted: 19th Jan 2005
ooOOOooo...ill have to come back to this...but just saying youve opened a can of worms here...agh..dont have enough time to post the whole spiel but i shall return..

Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Posted: 19th Jan 2005
Brain I love your topics........but......ah it im staying out of this one.........................for now

You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

Posted: 19th Jan 2005
My view is that 'religion' stems back to when people first started to look for answers about the world around them. Without our knowledge of science how could you possibly explain the variety of life, weather, seasons etc...the variety of everything around us!

Their outlook on the world must have seemed quite magical for lack of a better word. So to have something that great without an explanation makes the idea of a higher being/force/power/god is all of a sudden a lot more believable and logical.

I've got a good knowledge of science and i know how a plant grows to put it simply. But at the same time how the heck could such a complex structure evolve and thrive into millions of species all over the plant, let alone animals that can walk! Unbelievable!

I've got no belief in mainstream religion (not that i think there's anything wrong with it), i don't think humans should count themselves above other animals on the planet however. We've just been fortunate enough to develop the features that enable us to use our brains more, ie-oposeable digits.

Anyhoo, my view is that there is some sort of life force out there thats produced everything we see, but i couldn't elaborate that belief into a structured religion as is generally perceived.

I do not fear death, i just don't want do be around when it happens to me

Posted: 19th Jan 2005
Just so you guys know, in the past we've had to actively moderate and even close many topics on religion. Malcolm even came up with a forum guideline about having no discussions about religion at all due to the controversy and subsequent arguments they seemed to generate. I personally think it's a shame, because religion/spirituality is such a great topic, and if you're anything like me, it's vital to discuss in order to gain personal clarity on the issues.

Anyway, we don't want to close this thread and would like you to continue the discussion in a respectful and communicative way.

HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

Posted: 19th Jan 2005
well i dont think ignorance has to do with interest at all, more of just a state of not knowing. so what im saying is, would it be wise for an eternally wise thing to limit the knowledge of his play things (sort of like the government not telling us about lets say aliens and instead forming a secret organization to moniter and police alien activity on earth...aka the MiB). so lets say to monitor the knowledge of a certain thing someone decided to say they are the son of god who teaches that god loves everyone equally. so now people start to treat everyone esle equally createing a way to cure illnesses that may further evolve the species and therefore slow the natural evolution and lead ultimatly to overpopulation and their destruction.



i should really start to practice how to get out of a strait jacket before its too late.

If I could be granted one wish I would ask for all the questions of the universe.

Posted: 20th Jan 2005
Although i dont wish to offend, suerly it is important, infact essential in a free 'space' (cant really say a country as people here are all over the globe) for peopel to talk about such issues, even if teh debate is heated (but not rude!), as they are very important.

Someone with a faith may find offence at their faith being interrogated - but I could take offence at the very nature of religion (or what I perceive that nature to be). Of course I woudl say I was right, and the believer would believe they were right - and that s the thing with opinions. Different opinions are healthy, and having strength in different opinions is essential to maintain balance. I wonder what would have happened in Germany if there were a viable and popular alternative to Nazi socialism/facism..well, in fact I dont wonder, becasue I know it would have made a difference.

Or, keeping things contemporary and off religion - look at the war on terror, the 'with us against us', the suspicion and paranoia. Its Cold War II, which did so much harm to US society because there wasnt the freedom to talk and discuss opposing ideologies. In a free world, that aint right, and i think we'd all like a free world.

My apologies to Burning Brain, for I am a newbie deviating from his thought provoking original question.

My Mummy Says Im Special

Posted: 20th Jan 2005
no apologies nessesary, i deviate all the time. its my favorite way to get good ideas out.

If I could be granted one wish I would ask for all the questions of the universe.

Posted: 20th Jan 2005
ok brain, this got to me. DAMN YOU!

now i have read all the posts here, and everyone seems to be saying about the same thing, indirectly.......while i can agree that humans at one point used religion as a way to explain scientific events, i would like to go down a different road with this......chemical reactions in the brain........

now as im sure you all know, our brain produces different "waves" when we sleep (or meditate) vs. when we are awake.....alpha and beta, oh and theata.....now with that said, i have read reports and theories that say when a person prays their brain chemistry changes......so maby our answer is right there. its a high plain and simple

now speaking from experiance, i know when i come out of a good meditation, one were i can turly get "away" i feel euphoric. also with some of your extreme christian beliefs they try to go into a trance like state.......

now BB knows that while i am not a deeply religious i do believe there is more to this life, so....hehehe i love when i get to do this.........what if that "high" or the waves or brain puts off during our pray or meditaton sesions IS "god" talking or touching us? What if all the things that we have uncovered with science we were ment to? like what was said prior, mainstream religion whent from polytheistic to montheistic as we evlolved........k im done.....

oh and Mark...nice on the Te Ching not many people, even those who claim to be Tao, read that book any more......

You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

Posted: 21st Jan 2005
Thats an interesting point you raise about meditation. When I was reading up about it I found that all religions have rituals and practises which are forms of meditation (I forget the names of different types, but like, repeating a chant is mantra meditation...and the others I cant recall...but there are otehrs...honest...(theres gott abe someone with a less vague idea than me on here!). They are all to enhance spiritual well being.

So, if dif religions use meditation, and people without religion use meditation and experience the same (chemical) effect - then maybe we should all be learning how to meditate as a general action (like wasing your hands before eating) rather than separating ourslves into religious groups in order to claim some kind of abstract exclusivty of spirituality. Again, another pointer toward religion being a manmade control mechanism?

You dont have to be religious to be spiritual.

My Mummy Says Im Special

Posted: 26th Jan 2005
hey brian.
i offer to you...
take a look at zen buddhism.
take a look at taoism.
i'll let you make your own observations...

those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.