falloutboy
falloutboy

remember
Location: Melbourne, Australia, Earth, M...
Member Since: 7th Mar 2002
Total posts: 433
Posted:Hi all.. i've been pondering this topic much lately.. and just thought i'd share and see what others' views are. - that, and none of my housemates are home to listen to me crap on about it..

=====
My view is that a large part of believing in something is realising and accepting that it may be wrong - and then realising that this is unimportant. What is important is that you believe in it with all your heart. - On second thought, do "wrong" and "right" even apply to beliefs? hmmm.

I have a deep respect for christianity, and those who follow it. However it saddens me to see the continual preaching (by some) that its is the only "right" and "correct" way.. what about other religions?? I respect their beleifs, would it be so hard for them to respect mine?

An example; when i was quite young, my grandmother (God rest her soul) told me i was going to hell because i didn't 'read my bible'!! Being so young and not knowing any better, this really scared the crap out of me. But it certainly didn't make me want to go and read the bible - i had absolutely no interest in being a part of anything that would see good innocent people subjected to an eternal suffering just because they didn't read a book!!! So after some though, i came to the conclusion that all i had to do (to avoid hell) was live a good life, be kind to everyone i meet, and show love and compassion in everything i do - which i still beleive.
Another example; when i was 9 years old, i lost my father - which completely ripped my world out from under me, however i learned to take comfort in the belief that one day i would meet him again, in what shape or form i have no idea, but nonethless. Then one day, i clearly remember a man telling my mother that the only way she would ever see my father again, is if she "read her bible and went to church"! I was absoluetly furious when i heard this, and my mother was distraught. This man had come along, and completely destroyed my mums' hopes and dreams of one day being re-united with the love of her life, and the sad thing is he didn't even realise what he'd done. Like he was seeing the world with blinkers on, looking straight ahead but never to the sides.

Religion should not narrow and constrict your outlook on the world, it should expand it.

I think the fundamental purpose of any religion, is (or should be) to teach and encourage followers to live their lives with kindness, warmth, love, and compassion!
The purpose is NOT to give you something to do on sunday morning which will make you feel good about yourself, to make up for the life you lead from monday to saturday. It is also not to give you a feeling of superiority over all those 'poor lambs' who 'haven't yet found the way' - bah! - if people can realise the true purpose of life without needing religion, then they are one step ahead!!

anyway, no offense to anyone - this is merely my opinion, and indeed you are allowed to disagree.

- love to all, may each and every one of your days be more wonderful than the last!


-As angels debate chance and fate-
i was riding through melbourne on a midget giraffe, things were peachy.

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:nice thoughts

*gets out much thumbed through book and puts out some thoughts relating to it*

"What were the gods then? They would want everyone to know and to have and to be all good things. They would teach and share and train, but never force.
Like my parents, thought Wang-mu. Clumsy and stupid sometime, like all people, but they were good. They really did look out for me. Even sometimes they made me do hard things because they knew it would be good for me. Even sometimes when they were wrong, they were good. I can judge them by their purposes after all. Everybody calls their purposes good but my parents' puposes actually were good, because they meant all their acts twoards me to help me grow wiser and stronger and better. Even when they made me do hard things because they knew i had to learn from them. Even when they caused me pain.
That was it. That's what the gods would be, if there were gods. They would want everyone to have all that is good in life, just like good parents. But unlike parents or any other people, the gods would actually know what was good and have the power to cause good things to happen, even when nobody else understood that they were good."

this is a wonderful discourse which i resonate with very well, i think it stands alone as a meandering on religion. It's from an Orson Scott Card book (are we surprised?)

this next one (from the same book) is a good illistration of why people choose the way they do sometimes and why i sometimes (often) feel at odds with most of the christian churches today.

"I can only judge by what I understand. If as far as I can see, the gods that Quing-jao belives in are only evil, then yes, perhaps i'm wrong, perhaps i can't comprehend the great purpose that they accomplish by making the godspoken into helpless slaves or destroying whole species. But in my heart I have no choice but to reject such gods, because i can't see any good in what they are doing. Perhaps i'm so stupid and foolish that i will always be the enemy of the gods, working against their high and incomprehensible purposes. But I have to live my life according to what I understand, and what I understand is that their are no such gods as the ones that the godspoken teach us about. If they exist at all, they take pleasure in opression and deception, humiliation and ignorance. They act to make other peopel smaller and themselves larger. Those would not be gods, then, even if they existed. They would be enemies. Devils."

sorry for the lenght guys. i thought it was worth it


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:*feels like he should avoid this topic because it will undoubtedly become a big fiasco and he is trying to be a good boy and not piss too many people off*

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Aurora (1/2 a firesister)
enthusiast
Location: Canada, Ontario, Toronto
Member Since: 4th Jan 2002
Total posts: 249
Posted:^^it's all about the dialectic process my friend...or is it.. Positive Revolution ...?

[ 27 June 2002, 16:28: Message edited by: SunSpot ]


Om Namah Sivaya

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Bram....
member
Location: the arms of the Ganja Goddess
Member Since: 17th May 2002
Total posts: 1551
Posted:O man, I could go for hours on this subject. Ummm. k did you know that (Ray you will hate me for this)

1) The Islamic religion was created by the Catholic Church.
2) There is actually a book from the bible that has officially been banned by the church. Kinda makes you wonder what is in this book.
3)The Islamic religion is the oldest recorded religion right! Well how can that be when (1) it is allegedly created by the Catholic Church, and (2) Stonehenge has been around a lot longer then the koran. So which is older Islam or Paganism.
4) Why do all the religions (for the majority) emphasise peace and condemn violence, call the people who disagree with some of thier beliefs but agree on the whole peace bit, attack each other.
5)How often do you see the Vatican ( which is the richest and most powerful country in the world), say to help your fellow man, and then spend barely any money on helping starving children around the world. No instead they would rather spend it on statues of dead saints and bigger crucifixes and cathedrals.

Thats all for now kiddys, remember go Pagan or go home

[ 27 June 2002, 17:24: Message edited by: Bram ]


You. Its whats for dinner!

As time passes, you realise all the mistakes you amde and the ones you wish you never did make.

The wave crashing on the beach

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Supafly
TNT
Location: Charlotte, NC
Member Since: 27th Apr 2001
Total posts: 173
Posted:The problem with truly believing in any secular religion is that it presupposes that a vast majority of the world (comprised of all the other religions) is inherently wrong. What kind of higher being would favor a small sect and condemn the rest of its creations? If religion helps people find purpose and kindness to others when they are lost, then I'm all for it. But when it serves to highlight the differences between humans (which it almost always does), then it creates feelings of superiority, animosity, and distrust. Therefore, secular religion creates just as much evil and violence as it does acceptance and tolerance. So why not put your faith in what EVERYONE knows to be good such as kindness, trust, and compassion for all life, instead of one particular version of God.

And don't even get me started on why humans deserve to be favored by God while dogs, cats, birds, worms, and the duck-billed platypus get the shaft!


Fear the evil monkey!

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SmallBoy - x
SmallBoy - x

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London
Member Since: 29th May 2002
Total posts: 2737
Posted:Kyrian, rule number one, never apologise for your length, even if it does make someone cry.....(Personal experiance - sorry).
Religion:- Hahahahaha gotta laugh at all of it really, I believe in myself and fu*k all else..
Ray:- go 4 it, if u piss someone off then at least you're making them think about themselves.
The rest of ya:- You're always gonna piss someone off with your beliefs, so screw them and enjoy life, safe in the knowledge that you're saved if you belive hard enough (honest) - lol.

I refuse to get into this as I've spent many a gifted hour of my life picking holes in every religion except my own, which is as follows.......
1. spin and screw everyone that doesn't.
2. enjoy life
3. smile
Far shorter than the bible innit?


Small Lardy Person In Disguise

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Sorry I couldnt keep my nose out of this, none the less I will approach things with great caution.

Reading the Bible does not mean you are going to heven or hell. Think of the Bible more as a tool, rather than a requierment. Before the Bible was compiled people were still saved, still going to heaven. You do not need to go to a church to go to heaven. The church that alot of the world reconises as a building is a place to gather and grow and learn, the Church Body is however a different entity all together, it is the "Bride of Christ". In order to go to heaven you must do two thing, Confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior and repent of all your sins.

Now to less noble matters...

Bram, I am not Catholic, so I know nothing about that sect. I would like to know what book of the Bible is banned.

Supafly, how do you have "seculer religion"? Seculer is the absence of religion, or exlcusion of religion.

Small Boy was that a physical screw or ....??

None the less there is my stance on a few things, when I get a decent reply I will say more.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Oh no, I'm not getting into this one. You can't make me! I'm not falling for it twice!

So Nyah!


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:Lol...erm... smallboy?

*Shakes head*

*covers mouth to prevent comments from escaping*

that's it, i'm headin out mates... nice door over here.....


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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SmallBoy - x
SmallBoy - x

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London
Member Since: 29th May 2002
Total posts: 2737
Posted:Ray:- yeah why not, it's my mission in life......
Although cutesy poi girlies definitely do it for me with the way they move so, I'll revise 2 "screw everyone that doesn't but more importantly try and screw everyone that does............"

Kyrian:- That would be cry through pain and not cry through "OMG why am I wasting my time getting undressed for that" - Honest that's what I meant guvna' - Hmmmmmm This hole appears to be getting deeper.....Maybe I call myself smallboy as I'm proportionately 4 foot shorter than I should be compared to my penis..............then again maybe not, but the point is you'll never find out.

**Runs off screaming at the witches**


Small Lardy Person In Disguise

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DreadedChris
member
Location: England, ESSEX.
Member Since: 5th Jan 2002
Total posts: 5
Posted:I think it is all very simple...just we dont have the brain power to see it yet! I have seen the blue print of the the planet and it was made.

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rasputina
member
Location: London, England
Member Since: 20th May 2002
Total posts: 23
Posted:oh no! not another thread on religion!! i thought this had been thrashed out enough on the other one...

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:This time I am being socialble or however you say it IE nice and friendly what ever

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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I am Tim
member
Location: Joliet, IL - USA
Member Since: 28th Jun 2002
Total posts: 7
Posted:Well, there's a lot of places to begin. I'll just start here: I apologize to ANYONE and EVERYONE who has been treated with disrespect (of any form) or lied to by someone who calls themself a "Christian" (I have done this to people without meaning it as well). Just remember, that no one is perfect-NO ONE so, when you talk with someone, ask them to explain before you get offended and all mad and such.

I am Christian. Which basically means that I follow Christ. I believe that as humans, we should all analyze our beliefs and see why we really believe them. All too often, people grow up on Mom and Dad's (or whoever raised them) beliefs. It is wrong to say that you are "Catholic" just because your parents are (or whatever the case may be). Because people don't truly understand what they believe and why, they are easily offended or "converted" to another "religion."

As a Christian, I am to be respectful of other people's beliefs and not go go pointing fingers yelling "YOU'RE WRONG, YOU'RE WRONG!!!!!!" That is NOT how a Christian should act. I work at a pizza place where there are a few people who are Atheist, Jewish, Catholic, Baptist, Pagan, Nihilists and a whole lot more. There have been many times when we have discussed our beliefs. They have made me think and I have made them think. Also, there have been many times when we have learned things about one another's beliefs by LISTENING. You will be surprised to see how often it is that we have misunderstandings about other's beliefs.

Oh, btw, you never know who is what religion unless you ask them nicely, or offend them greatly. And talk WITH people not TO them please, no matter what religion you are. I've found that a great place to learn a little of what's wrong with a lot of religions is by watching the Simpsons.. they make fun of most all religion's downfalls. --Think about it.

Anytime ANYONE wants to know anything about Christianity, feel free to ask me.. I'm totally willing to explain the best I can.

Dang, I didn't want to write this much.. I kept reading everyone's responses and kept thinking: "Mine won't be that long" well, I guess that thought went out the window. Well, I think that's it.

Peace.


This is my signature

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CAINED-AND-UNABLE
member
Location: Manchester
Member Since: 19th Feb 2001
Total posts: 214
Posted:I DONT BELIVE IN A GOD. I DONT KNOW IF NEBASHIMA SAMURAI IS ACTUALLY COUNTED AS A RELIGION. ITS MORE A WAY OF LIFE ANYWAY. I READ FROM THE 'HAGAKURE' DAILY. (collection of quotes concerning matters of the samurai)
i kind of stumbled across it and after reading the book for a while, i realised that id been living it for ages anyway i just didnt know it.
i dont think its about beliving in a higher entity. for me its about a state of mind/emotion.
theres loadsa quotes ~(hundreds), but heres one of the key ones:
'The Way of the Samurai is found in death.when it comes to either/or there is only the quick choice of death.it is not particularly difficult.be determined and advance.we all want to live. and in large part we make our logic according to what we like.but not having attained our aim and continuing to live is cowardice.this is a thin and dangerous line.This is the substance of the Way of the Samurai.if by setting ones heart right every morning and evening , one is able to live asthough his body were already dead, he gains freedom in the Way.His whole life will be without blame and he will suceed in his calling.'

what d'ya reakon.
i reakon its best to mix and blend philososphy take what ya need.
if ya interested ya can get abbreviated copies of the Hagakure on Amazon.

peace .
C'an'U


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redragonx
member
Location: Bentley Alberta Canada
Member Since: 15th Nov 2001
Total posts: 73
Posted:i consider myself christian, but if you ever meet me, you'd never guess it. my take on it is that if mass murders can be 'forgiven' fer their sins and all that crap, then i gots me lotsa time to do whatever i feel like and still go to heaven and all that fun stuff. i personally dont care about the whole bible thumping part of religion. i dont go to church, i dont read the bible, i dont pray for people unless they really need it, i just follow my own path, do my own thing, and for me, thats the best religion.

~A Soft Rubber Bodybuilding Smurf~

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SmallBoy - x
SmallBoy - x

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London
Member Since: 29th May 2002
Total posts: 2737
Posted:Thrashed out religion?????
Peeps have been arguing over it since the dawn of time..........and that aint gonna change anytime soon.
Myself I'm a Zen Bucketist, and I'll fight for my gause!!
(**Bubbly noises coming from under desk** - no wait that's Zen Bongism)
I LOVE the sky and the trees, the birds and the bees, the moon and the stars but I LIVE for my grass.........


Small Lardy Person In Disguise

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