Page: 123456
bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:negative space is a juggling concept which coleman will kindly explain for me.



and this morning i realised i've been plaing with it loads and loads and loads with poi over the last year or so.



dom's been dipping his toes in the water too......





proper discussion when cole does his part of this job.



smiles

R

EDITED_BY: bluecat (1100181048)


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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:Basically is this thread about moves which use negative space?

(in which case i feel justified in posting about other ways of making negative space)

or is this a thread about moves where you 'make a hole then put something through it' which have been arbritrarily named "negative space moves"

(in which case i'll shut up and bugger off, but complain loudly about how crap the name is)


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:redface

sorry - having a bad day frown


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:ubblol

so less of the wanky sematics and lets make with the moves already smile


Love is the law.

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:it was originally your second description, but seems to have become the first.

oh well.

ho de hum.

Hugdoofhug for cole.

pm me if ya need to, but i'm off to a gig in an hour.

should we rename part two as framing? off to change first post.

love
R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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vanize
vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:my point (which I purposefully obfuscated to enhance the point since the point was about obfuscation thru the use of misleading terminology) is that calling it negative space, while sort of more or less correct in an indirect way, is unduely complicated because the whole concept is much clearer if you don't go thru the whole process of invoking negative space and mearly say the "move is framed" (three words could have described it more effectivly than this entire thread has), which does not require anyone to guess what object is being subtracted and which part of the negative space remaining you are using. Calling it negative space is clearing confusing since it took many of us a while to get up to speed as to what was being talked about here when the concept was really pretty simple



And I am objecting from an artistic viewpoint here, not a physics one. Physicists couldn't care less about artistic definitions of negative space - the physics ones are far more profound.



But whatever, its called negative space now, and I finally know what it means and am only being this way because it could have been clearer much sooner and besides is kind of fun to stir you all up without really pissing you off, so tongue


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:What about dynamic framing?

Just to confuse things more.


Love is the law.

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:i have a (dynamic wink ) framing\NS move. You can call it a straitjacket 360 carry or a DP or whatever you like smile



start from follow time wallplane reels (anticlockwise)



as the left poi starts its upswing and the right poi starts its downswing (both in front of you) start to smoothly cross your wrists. This should feel like a stall with the right poi, and an upward stall with the left, though the poi should keep spinning anticlockwise and not stall completely.



bring the left poi up through the space between the right arm and your chest

let the right poi drop through the space between the left arm and your chest



As you do this - turn right 90* bringing your right elbow up and left elbow down so they make a vertical line.

left poi is pointing up, right poi pointing down



Then turn another 90* right bringing your elbows flat again

left poi is pointing right, right poi pointing left



Turn another 90* right bringing your left elbow up and right elbow down so they make a vertical line.

left poi pointing down, right poi pointing up



Now turn the final 90* as the left poi starts its upswing and the right starts its downswing. Slowly and gracefully extract the poi from the spaces between your arms and the body.

(the space itself disappears as you remove the poi from it. which is quite nice.)



You are left back in follow time wallplane reels (anticlockwise)



Note - This move creates a negative space, but an observer in front or behind you wouldn't see it. An observer to your left or right would.

i can do this move, given lots of attempts. and as long as you don't mind it being really messy.

it's my favourite move involving putting things through holes and i put it here as an apology for being mean to cole and rob when they were just trying to give people ideas

EDITED_BY: simian (1100183442)


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Written by: simian
a DP



Surely not a double penetration?

eek

I asked my friend and she said negative space is the space around an object.

*runs off backwards*


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Weasel
the one and only, just like chesney
Location: here
Member Since: 8th Jan 2003
Total posts: 295
Posted:*enter contact juggler who talks alot about negative space*

its not framing, its negative space you can frame without useing negative space.
check out a dancer called skywalker he's a random dancer on a detours video


birds might be able to fly,
but weasels dont get caught in jet engine's

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:thats true ucof,

it also holds true for the space inside an object.

so in theory (read: in my head)

the frame is positive space.

outside is unframed negative space

inside is framed negative space

this can vary with partial frames and dynamic frames

somebody shut me up if im getting this all wrong.


Love is the law.

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:You forgot to say Weasel:

"A contact juggler to talks alot about negative space, and WHO IS AN ARTIST"

smile

So im guessing you may well know the answer.

smile


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Weasel
the one and only, just like chesney
Location: here
Member Since: 8th Jan 2003
Total posts: 295
Posted:i do

birds might be able to fly,
but weasels dont get caught in jet engine's

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Ado-p-p-p-p-p-p-p: apparently the space inside an object is NOT negative space.

Im only relaying messages here.

Oh..and the space between two objects is also negative space.

smile


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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:so the space inside a circle is not negative space?

now im confused.

i wish to learn but my brain hurts.

i shall say no more


Love is the law.

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:negative space is two dimensional



otherwise it's just a hole



ado-p: everything you said is correct smile


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Can somebody give me a practical application of negative space?

Or.

Do we agree that the concept of 'negative space' could be expressed in other ways involving positive space?


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:Written by: NYC

Can somebody give me a practical application of negative space?




i can give ya two:

1. an open door or window
2. the toilet


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:Written by: simian


negative space is two dimensional







what about tubes?



they have a cylindrical negative space contained within them don't they?



god i love procrastination.



whats a poi?


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:1- someone agreed with me eek



2- we seemed to be progressing forward in the area of moves involving framed space of some kind whihc may be postive, negative, neutral, or unframed in its frameness.. then we went back on semantical arguments..



I move that we call them 'framed' in the sense that you are creating a framed enclosure.. whether or not this aligns with artistic definition, even though it was somewhat kinda sort of realted to the inspiration.. and though we are artists, this is poi, not a renassaince.. we can name things as we like. I'm not saying we can't refer to moving through 'negative space', just that we simplify the procedure for arguments sake to 'framed moves'.. since any move technically through negative space, I feel (and this is just me) that simply refering to this genre as negatvie space moves is misleading..



can I get a second? if so, then let the semantics drop and the move discussion flourish wink.. weavesmiley juggle

EDITED_BY: Rev (1100199116)


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"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:hmmm, I think its important to call to include the negative space.

There are many moves that will be framed in negative space. But its also possible to create many impressions with your body using the principals the guys above are talkin about. Glass's video is a good example.

This way you can create many shapes and they dont all need toys in them to look good. Calling it framed moves would, in my humble and admitadly not very knowledgable opinion, limit the possibilities of underlying principal.

i'll say as i said above though. i dont know what im talking about.... but i like what im reading


Love is the law.

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:Emmm... just a suggestion, but why not call the particular moves that involve toys 'framed moves', and the particular movements of the body that will create this impression of detached space 'negative space' (which, admittedly, I still don't really understand, so I'm sorry if this makes no sense).

Anyways, the point is - is it possible to seperate these two things?!

smile


Getting to the other side smile

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:this is still the most useless thread ive ever read. tongue

T wave

(oops, sorry cole, but then you know i say a lot of not nice things jus cos i can tongue )


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:mwaha!
thanks tom.

you make me feel so useful.

call me when you get here tomorrow, i should be able to pick you up.

hugs
R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:Why would you want to seperate them....

meh, for my part...

I would dearly love to here some more applications and other such, im not good enough at poi to understand a word about most of this though....

so

If i stood with one knee bent a little in front and one leg stretched a little behind me it would make a sort of triangle. If i put my hand near my forhead with my elbow straight out it would make another triangle.

If you turn the higher hand so your fingers were dangling a poi behind (the viewer on the other side) the top triangle and used your other arm to dangle the other poi so it was visible in the lower triangle. From the viewers (from the other side of your body) persective it would look like both poi were framed using your arms and legs.

I dont know any poi moves but in my head that looks like a nice pose. Could you stall back into it? I dunno.

It is more fun to think of stuff rather than definitions.


Love is the law.

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:*evildaggerlookataidan*

Just thought it might be easier to define is all.

Sniffle.

That's ok...


Getting to the other side smile

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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:I was just implying that negative space is everything else.. so just refering to negative space does not limit things.. but in fact doesnt leave much to talk about.. since any move is in negative space regardless of where it is or what its doing...

we're talking about creating a frame.. ie. a hole.. and spinnign through it.. yes that space is negatve space.. so yes you may use that term.. but it is also framed space.. and that specfically narrows down the discussion to what blue and cole were discussing..

so whatever.. just cut the yip yap and get to moves already lest nix be right and this thread be pointless..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:i like pointless threads.

smile

But i do agree...

get on with the moves.

Last night i tried putting my hands on my head and telling you that i love you whilst swinging my poi forways, throught he legs, then flying up and through the holes between your wrist and shoulder.

Aka....as Nix was saying.

It a bastarding hard one that is...


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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:can't we just make pretty patterns? biggrin

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:*slaps meg*

of course not. thats not what being a nerd is about.

as i haven't actually played with poi since starting this thread i will set aside an hour tomorrow to play with some of these patterns/ideas, write them all down, and come back to it.

smiles
R


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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:there is also the "stolen from above" buzzsaw in negative space...



Right hand with SHORT POI pointing at right hip.

Left hand with SHORT POI behind the back and next to right hip, level with right hand.

Buzzsaw it.

Butterfly Buzzsaw it too.



smile



and on the left side obviously too....


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