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MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004

MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG

Total posts: 3415
Posted:Ok, this may be asking for trouble, yet another religion thread, but im really hoping that differing viewpoints on this topic will help, rather than hinder.

Anyway, i was just thinking about different religions/demi-religious beliefs, life morals and stuff, and a thought struck me.

Aside from what you can eat, various prophecies and days where you can and can't do stuff, a lot of religions have a very similar main 'theme' - be nice to people.

And on that thought, what other major themes/ideas do you know of that are common to a few/many religions? for that matter, what can you think of that's unique?

sure, some seem to be talking about a lot less people than others, but i cannot recall seeing a religious text that says 'go out and hit people' or anything like that.

Which makes me wonder. If so many religions are all so nice, friendly type guides, why does one happy friendly group feel the need to hit/bomb/kill/whatever another happy friendly group, because the second one can eat meat and milk at the same time? (no specific religion is being targeted here, its just an example.)


"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:well, most religions involve material benefits if you're a priest, but not if you're a follower.

I'm unsure of the theological significance of that observation though.

Written by:
If so many religions are all so nice, friendly type guides, why does one happy friendly group feel the need to hit/bomb/kill/whatever another happy friendly group, because the second one can eat meat and milk at the same time? (no specific religion is being targeted here, its just an example.)


i can't think of a single example of a war in history thats been caused by religious differences, as opposed to being justified by them.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: MiG


And on that thought, what other major themes/ideas do you know of that are common to a few/many religions? for that matter, what can you think of that's unique?




Develpoment of insight/inner peace (eg Buddhism and the mystical/meditative aspects of Christianity/Islam).


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:i think it helps when thinking of these shared attributes to think in terms of natural selection. Systems with a bias toward surviving\spreading will survive\spread.

These are some thoughts that are all gross generalisations:

A belief system will generally be to changes in it's tenets, though retain a slight level of flexibility to survive through changing societies.

The children of beleivers will be indoctrinated, and/or non-beleivers will be evangelised. In systems that promote having children (notably Catholicism) evangelism will be less important than those that do not.

They will involve increasing and decreasing an individuals sense of self esteem depending on their following of the tenets. Carrot and stick to keep believers on board. Some may tend toward one more than the other.

They will tend toward socially stable, pro-survival tenets (Thou shalt not kill, etc.)

They will tend toward vision inducing rituals to give sensory evidence to a 'spiritual world'. For example fasting, control of breathing (singing), long periods of remaining in one position, burning incense and other such ritual depriving of oxygen to the brain.

That kind of thing.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Mags The Jedi
GOLD Member since May 2004

Mags The Jedi

Fool
Location: Cornwall, UK

Total posts: 2020
Posted:Written by: simian

i can't think of a single example of a war in history thats been caused by religious differences, as opposed to being justified by them.



The crusades?


"I believe the cost of life is Death and we will all pay that in full. Everything else should be a gift. We paid the cover charge of life, we were born."

Bill Hicks, February 1988

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:i had them in mind when i said it.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:it's true - war is about politics & land - religion is all a big cover up IMO.

I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:What about the Catholics an the Hugenots? I dont know too much about that except my ansectors got flaming hot pokers in places where it really hurts.


Red Dwarf Series 1, Episode (i think it's 4) has a really good angle when it comes to religion; where Lister is God because of evolution.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:the point about all religions saying the same thing is true, that's why it's all so silly everyone fighting all the time.

there's a saying supposedly niled over the door of a buddhist monastry saying

'1000 monks 1000 paths.'


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:
Without meaning to sound like a broken record... wink

This has actually been discussed before smile
Someone pointed out that nearly every single religion and philosopher came to the same conclusion:

"Treat others as you would like to be treated" or some other wording...
Good advice too smile

I'll be back
*Wanders off to find the thread*


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004

MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG

Total posts: 3415
Posted:and that's one of my points. I wonder if it would be possible to condense all the world's religions into one super religion, takning the best bits from each. and, cos i made it, i would be god. well, one of them smile

"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Some religions say very different things.



For example Christianity/Islam with their focus on a deity (God/Allah) being of supreme importance; as opposed to Buddhism with it's view that the existence or non-existence of a deity is of no relevance when compared to the matter of true import (achieving liberation from suffering).


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Eggz


Eggz

newbie
Location: Bristol, Uk

Total posts: 16
Posted:It's already been tried - one of the moghul emperors I believe. The problem is, you end up with the followers of all the original religions wanting you dead because by that act you become a heretic - at whcih point we come back to the hot poker thing eek

devil


I would hate to advocate drugs, alcohol or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.

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meep
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

....
Location: Midlands - nr cov

Total posts: 344
Posted:Paganism is one of the few (very few - i can't name any others off the top of my head, although i believe there are some) religions that does not agree with evangelising the religion. smile

Just something that's different. It's also one without a central text/icon type person, also i think unusual.

ubbrollsmile

Lynne


"But what would you do with a brain if you had one?"

Dorothy Gale

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:Many religions don't agree with evangelism.

But i bet you 1.75 that all those religions promote fertility.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:paganism definatley promotes frtility and other acts associated therewith.

they also promote fire although mixing the two is not advised for safety reasons.


yay!


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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Match


Innuendo Officer Extraordinaire
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Total posts: 105
Posted:The problem is that there are very few religions that don't date back to a central religion somewhere along the line:

e.g Judaism, Christianity & Islam:

Abraham had wife and maidservant.

Son with wife = Isaac = founder of Hebrew nation and therefore of Judaism.

Son with maidservant = Ishmael = founder of Islamic nation and therefore of Islam.

Christianity = the whole John/Jesus new message from God 'new Judaism'.

Interestingly, these three religions cover a lot of the world's population:

Christians - 33%
Muslims - 20%
Jews - 2%

i.e more than 50% of the World's population (notably in 'western countries' with a high World influence) come from 3 religions which share the same fundamental basic rules (i.e those found in the Old Testament).

On the other side of the scale - Hinduism and Buddhism accout for about 13% and 6% respectively, Atheism/Agnosticism being about 15%.

None of the other religions in the World individually top 2%, although some could be considered combinable on their tenets (Animism/Paganism/Wicca for example).

However, if the question is to look at where the beliefs of the majority of modern world religions comes from, then perhaps Zoroastrianism is the place to start, being one of the main influences on modern monotheistic religions.

Right - enough rambling - have a look at the Religious Tolerance website for more information on Religions than you could possibly ever want!


YARR! Thats replaced the whale in my nightmares!

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NOn


activist for HoPper liberation.
Location: ffidrac

Total posts: 1643
Posted:The way I see it ALL religion derives from a human desire to understand the world, but they are all looking at the same world! The central religion is earth itself.

Which is why i find that a lot of the stories - religious myth (I'm sure this has a proper term, but can't think if that's the right one..) do centre around the same morals and come up with a similar conclusion. and in essence followers of any religion are looking for the same thing - spiritual enlightenment, understanding, of some form. And 'God' whether in one form or hundreds, as an energy, entity or essence is essentially one thing across all religions - the only difference being perspective. Religion being as it is, is invented by humans, for humans. Faith in that religion means faith in a human perspective - someone's opinion - that is by no means infallable. If you view the world as a place for humans - human needs being the most important, along with human desires, then the religion takes on the form you know - god in the image of a human - a single decision making entity. If you view every aspect of the world with equal importance, then god might be represented in the form of many gods, or as an entirely spiritual all encompassing entity... - it just makes it all easier to explain that which we can't entirely comprehend, in terms that we are familiar with. as far as i can see - but we need these terms because people LOVE to talk! If we did not communicate at all, would religion have ever existed??

why do people bomb each other in the name of religion? i think faith can be blinding - it's really a minor disagreement over a biblical passage or something (written by a human!!) but faith, means more people on your side - the scale of an argument then can increase, exponentially!

well anyway, that's how i see it, sorry if I've offended anyone... i find myself unable to subscribe to any particular religion, but i have the utmost faith in existence


Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006

if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.

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MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004

MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG

Total posts: 3415
Posted:religious myth is also, i beleive, called theology.

i think, in the way of where religion comes from, that its been a bit of a case of 'we can't possibly make it through life on our own, there has to be something bigger and better helping us through', stemming from waaay back in the cro-magnon days. from there, it's developed into a way of life, a set of guidelines, a faith, a religion.


"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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NOn


activist for HoPper liberation.
Location: ffidrac

Total posts: 1643
Posted:I always thought theology was a general term for religions, but you may well be right, thanks.

And yeah, definately. Life is pretty daunting for us humans who think too much biggrin


Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006

if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.

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Zim
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Zim

Former Raver Invader... Not sure what i am now...
Location: Southern California, USA

Total posts: 284
Posted:I know lots about many different religions, and my take on it is that the only reason someone would become devout to a religion and follow all their beliefs in a strict manner is to fill a gap within themselves.

Beliefs like predestination: where it's believed that "the greater power" has already chosen if you will spend an eternity in bliss or in damnation, but those that figure then why be nice and go around being evil are showing that they've been chosen already to be cursed to damnation, while those that think even though they're predestined to something they cannot control they should still be nice throughout life are showing that they're going to be in the blessed group of peoples. They seem to all cling on to the need for a greater power.

Now ya look at the book of satan/ism, which by the way is NOT worshipping the devil, where the main belief is that the only thing after death is dreamless sleep, and you only have one chance at this life so live it up. There is no greater power that will judge you, it's all in yourself, a good person will go by the same "karma"'ish theory of: the more good things you do, the more good things come back to you, and the more bad things you do, the more bad things come back to you... and thus tries to be a good person.

In my opinion, beings are their own, i go through life trying to make everyone around me's life better, but not completely at my own expense all the time. If someone is mean to me i'm not going to sit there and suck it up and keep being nice to them, i try to solve the problem and if they refuse my attempts i just avoid them. When i meet someone for the first time i try to always view them with a positive perspective. Tying this back to religion, i believe there's one shot at this life, and we should try to make it the best experience for ourselves and everyone around us... and thus devotion to a religion is merely a waste of time. I don't aim to offend anyone with that comment, if it makes you sleep better at night believing that i'm ignorant and that there's a greater power watching over all of us, it's all you, and i encourage you to believe in what you believe.... if it bloats your goat, go for it.

Wow that was waaaaaaaay deep for me.... i'mma go dunk my head in a tub of ice now....

Much love as always
-Raver Invader
~Zim


Clean for 6 months and counting... ah yeah, that's nice.

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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk

Total posts: 1858
Posted:All way (well every war I can think of) is caused by money. Normally its to do with trading (Vikings, Romans, Mongols, etc) and trading resources.

The chances are, one religion will say you cant trade with another (because of the risk of interbreeding therefore diluting the religion) so war is the only option if you need more coal/iron or whatever. (Well stealing it is, but that often causes war)

Most (again all I can think of) religions in from the middle easy to Europe focus on an after or some sort. Then encourage thinking about the self/soul lasting longer than the body. They also have deities that have to be thanked / worshiped.

This contrasts with the Far East where then promote the self as something that has to be improved/refined in some way (this doesnt necessarily contradict the middle east/European thinking, its just a different emphasis)

Every religion is a safety net of some sort. Its also an easy way out. Meaning you dont have to think about how or why we exist. It is very easy just to assume god (for want of a better word) made it, its made for us and he loves us. What a warm fussy feeling whoever thought it up must have had knowing it just wasnt his problem anymore, its now gods. The buck for the entire of humanity had been passed.

Simian, your right about the natural selection theory. Richard Dawkins calls them memes (http://maxwell.lucifer.com/virus/alt.memetics/what.is.html). I recommend everyone reads The Blind Watchmaker by him, its a massive eye opener.

Sorry to go on its but of a pet subject ubbrollsmile


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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SpitFire
GOLD Member since Dec 2002

Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada

Total posts: 2723
Posted:Written by: Tao Star

paganism definatley promotes frtility and other acts associated therewith.

they also promote fire although mixing the two is not advised for safety reasons.


yay!



Paganism does not promote fertility in the same way the Catholic church does, though.

Pagans aren't running around having 4 or more kids per family. Birth Control is definitely allowd, and encouraged.

I think it might be a fairer statement to say Pagans celebrate fertility.


Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane

Total posts: 3044
Posted:Written by:


Paganism does not promote fertility in the same way the Catholic church does, though.





"...every sperm is scared, every sperm is great...." wink

EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1097677481)


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton

Total posts: 1626
Posted:In my opinion religions split people into groups, and that's all they do. For me they're nothing to do with spirituality, they're to do with dogma, restriction and the easiest way to generate power for the protagonists through the fear of the followers.

I really like things like the internet where people who are interested often seem to be well-versed in various religions, as opposed to simply sticking to one and claiming it's infallable and perfect for them. I mean fine if it is, but it's really cool that people take elements from various religions to create their own unique and induvidual spirituality. It's the most positive religious thing I've experienced.


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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GothFrogette
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

GothFrogette

grumpy poorly froggy
Location: Nuneaton

Total posts: 3999
Posted:well i am a pagan witch, and was born into a pagan family.
The way I see it is an earth honouring spiritual path that involves balance in every degree. Some choose a tradition some choose to go it on their own, each to satisfy their needs to get more close to what comes natural. You get out of life what you put in and by living by the many entwining circles of life within your own you gain more awareness of how precious life actually is.
We draw on what ever we can to get the desired out come whether through spell, ritual, and magick awakening the very depth of who we are.
now to me thats pretty darn special weavesmiley


Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk

Total posts: 1858
Posted:There is a program on Radio 4 tonight (i think) about the start of the Chinese culture in 400BC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime_20040401.shtml)

I just heard an ad for it, and it was talking about combining religion and politics etc. Sounds very interesting.


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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