Forums > Technical Discussion > staff to poi and poi to staff

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wenchamuffin
wenchamuffin

member
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Member Since: 5th Feb 2004
Total posts: 10
Posted:I decided to learn poi after doing double staff now for a year, and I'm finding it very, very difficult. My planes won't stay straight and I just can't stop whacking myself (good thing I'm using some homemade sock poi). Any other staffers have this problem? Do poi people have trouble with staff if they try to learn it?

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MikeIcon
MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:Heya, Wenchamuffin. Yer ol' friend Nyebright here smile



I did poi for a year before picking up a staff and I have to say, staff came very easily for me. I dont know if its just because Im a pretty coordinated person or because of my past poi experience. As for double staves, they're proving a tad harder... But then again, I cant honestly say I practiced for more than 2 hours total with them.



Anyway, if you're looking to learn some poi, you know where to find me. I just ordered two short fire staves so Im gonna need someone to show me a thing or two with them as well smile


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:I think staff to poi is the harder transition, because a staff can be 'forced' through its arcs, whereas poi need to be lead in some way.

Keep trying tho smile

Ive found that poi is much more relaxed than doubles, however the best doublestaffers are usually the ones who are quite relaxed with them anyhow...

Josh


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Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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wenchamuffin
wenchamuffin

member
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Member Since: 5th Feb 2004
Total posts: 10
Posted:ugh...this is very frustrating. Is there such thing as a person being Poily Challenged? My legs kinda hurt from getting whacked so much by my out-of control poi (and they're socks!). Any advice on what I may be doing wrong? My hands are to the sky/ground when they're supposed to be, but the poi just don't, um, go...or at least they don't go where they're supposed to. (this should be in the poi thread, but as this is my thread...)





In response to Josh, I'm really relaxed with my doubles, but tense with my poi. I'm very comfortable with staves, but after messing with my poi I'm a bit afraid of them...that is, afraid of getting hit in the face.

EDITED_BY: wenchamuffin (1086377242)


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MikeIcon
MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:What exactly do you have in the socks? If its something hard (that your scared to get hit with) change it for something else that wont hurt at all. Also, what kind of handles do they have? Some handles are easier to control the poi with than others.

Anyway, ya just gotta practice more is all. Its all about flow and control. Learn to control the poi through the planes as smoothly as you can and the rest will come later.


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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flash fire
flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 2758
Posted:heya.. I hear your pain!

I've been a staffer for several years and an avid double staffer for the last 4 or so years. I've tried poi and just can't get into it. I now take on the attitude that poi is crap, faddish and overrated and anyone who's cool uses double staff and/or other toys, like clubs, fans and crosses.

See, I hide my lack of poi ability under an extremely transparent "distaste" for poi. Works well enough for me. I'm happy with my delusions. biggrin hehee.

Forget poi! If you want a new challenge that can perhaps translate to poi at a later stage, try clubs.


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originalsmit
originalsmit

addict
Location: nottingham, england. cornwall ...
Member Since: 28th Aug 2003
Total posts: 469
Posted:Written by: wenchamuffin

ugh...this is very frustrating. Is there such thing as a person being Poily Challenged?



poilexic i think??

and all who have tried feel you pain.

you never stop hitting yourself. ever.
you just stop hitting yourself trying 3 bt and start hitting youself trying behind the back weave and turn


my original signature was tooo long.
this one is shorter

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adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:I think that different people click with different apparatus...differently. I was a pretty quick study with poi; I was much slower to get comfortable with staff, and slower still with double-staff (but I also think my standards keep getting higher).

If you're using sock poi, they may be very light--perhaps surprisingly, this makes control harder. I wouldn't pour a pound of lead shot in them or anything but more weight=more momentum=less effort. I think that at an abstract level, poi and staff have a lot in common, one thing being that the less work you do, the better it goes. Trying to steer your poi continuously is a recipe for disaster. The trick is to do the minimum work possible to get them on the right trajectory and keep them going around. If you can work in front of a mirror, that might help.


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wenchamuffin
wenchamuffin

member
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Member Since: 5th Feb 2004
Total posts: 10
Posted:That's good advice adamrice (teehee). Thanks.

To ICoN, my sock poi have another pair of socks inside them. They don't hurt the first time, just the 50 billionth time.

Thanks people, at least I know I'm not alone.


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Pa-li-tchi
Pa-li-tchi

stranger

Member Since: 18th Jun 2004
Total posts: 22
Posted:From poi -> staff is better than staff->poi......its our experience......and most difficult is rope for sure :-))))

.:full power:.

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Psi
boing
Location: Body in Seattle - soul still i...
Member Since: 20th May 2002
Total posts: 529
Posted:hmmm I learnt single staff -> double staff -> poi and didn't have any particular problems .. in fact for things like waist wrap moves i found it to exactly translate from doubles, as with many other moves too .. maybe i'm just weired ubbloco wink

Mike biggrin


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Achluophobia
Magical Sock Dancer
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Member Since: 1st Jul 2003
Total posts: 255
Posted:I've spun poi for almost a year, I've tried twice to take up staff, I haven't really gotten anywhere with it, I blame it on my lack of decent equipment and my poi for drawing me away all the time. It's fun, but I just can't keep at it. I'm having problems taking up something too. hug

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Na'shanna'l
Na'shanna'l

stranger

Member Since: 2nd Jul 2004
Total posts: 9
Posted:I know this is going to sound stupid, but one of the best ways to learn poi is to do it while drunk. Not falling down drunk, but definatly intoxicated. Your coordination will be crap, and it probably won't work. However, once you get the basic movement down;sober up, you'll be surprised at how much better you've gotten. One more thing. Try doing one poi at a time. Basic moves one poi follows the other. So if you get the lead poi moving correctly the other will follow.

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MikeIcon
MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:Wouldnt quite take that advice. Firstly, yer talkin to a minor so getting drunk probably isnt a great idea. Also, while using only one poi is a decent tool for learning, its not as easy as you make it out to be. Theres tons of stuff I can do with one that I cant do with two. Using one poi is more for getting ideas for new moves than actually learning ones you already know.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Big Andy
member
Location: Dallas, Tx
Member Since: 1st Apr 2003
Total posts: 186
Posted:Written by: Josh

I think staff to poi is the harder transition, because a staff can be 'forced' through its arcs, whereas poi need to be lead in some way.


I agree completely.


I went from poi to staff, and have had very little trouble learning moves. A staff cannot rotate in anything but a perfect plane. It needs force and guidance and the momentum does the rest. This doesn't make it easy mind you, so don't think I'm putting it down at all!! However, I feel poi requires a much different sense of momentum and direction/travel path than staff. So while this makes it relatively easy to go from poi to staff, it is difficult to go from staff to poi.

By the same token, a buddy of mine who's been spinning staff for a while is progressing at great rates with his poi spinning, even though he has encountered the same drawbacks. So I still think that going from staff to poi is easier than starting dry, because you at least have a basic working knowledge of how the planes should be aranged and how everything should be moving around you.


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MikeIcon
MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:Written by:
A staff cannot rotate in anything but a perfect plane.


Wrong but point taken smile


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:Written by: adamrice

but I also think my standards keep getting higher



great point methinks.

i was taught a load of double staff at the weekend and the hardest aspect for me was keeping clean planes, especially when spinning from outside to inside planes (or buzzsaw planes if you prefer).

but this may be because both the teacher and myself have an anal obsession about clean planes.

as far as i can remember from learning poi, really clean planes and tight timing come along a little further down the line, when you are beginning to get a decent feel for your toys.

i think it will do me good to keep these two things in mind but just because poi and staff have a lot of similarities, we can hardly expect to be able to transfer our skills directly.

to get to a skill level with double staff that is comparable to my skill level with poi, i expect to have to spend at least half the time i have been spinning again - at least a year, maybe two.

by which time my standards will be even higher rolleyes ubblol


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mech
mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
Total posts: 6207
Posted:cole, i dont think i can imagine you being any better at poi amte, and if you get to be that good with double staff, thats bloody heck i would wet myself, and fall in love with you! ubblol

Step (el-nombrie)

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Na'shanna'l
Na'shanna'l

stranger

Member Since: 2nd Jul 2004
Total posts: 9
Posted:I still say that learning the basic moves with one poi is a tremendous help. As for the whole intoxicated thing, obviously if you are a minor then don't do it. I also feel I should say that I am not very good with poi. I can do all the basic moves, but stopped after one week, mostly due to no progression in the foreseeable future. Just wanted to apologize for enticing a minor to drink. My only excuse is that nothing in the post said anything about age.

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kamiam
stranger

Member Since: 8th May 2008
Total posts: 2
Posted:I have been spinning poi for about a year and a half, and have the same feeling as many of you.... but in reverse. I have been beating myself senseless with the double staff; not to mention the collateral structure damage to the ceiling. For what to use that has a good weight for poi, without the drawback of a lot of pain: Mardi Gras beads. About five necklaces inside of a small sock with a rubber band, inside the long sock. The weight is close to cathedral, and the beads disperse the impact so much that it is hardly felt. Any help on how to stop hurting self with the double staff would be MOST appreciated.

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DyamiTK
DyamiTK

beginner forever
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca
Member Since: 11th Mar 2008
Total posts: 159
Posted:Originally Posted By: kamiamAny help on how to stop hurting self with the double staff would be MOST appreciated.

practice with lighter (less weight) staffs and move slower when learning new things


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81LL
81LL

pant crafting
Location: Ireland
Member Since: 28th Jun 2009
Total posts: 97
Posted:hi kamiam.
i find double staff a lot like poi - compared to single staff that is - coz your using both hands, but the trouble is thinking poi moves will work (i moved from poi + staff -> double staff).
i had trouble in the beginning because my body wanted to do poi moves with them, but poi moves dont directly translate to double staff. there are similarities but some things just dont work.
you'll have to play around and find what does work, or separate them and learn doubles as a separate thing (i wouldnt do that for long tho, as all these disciplines are related).
learn one-beats maybe. i think they have quite a poi-ish feel to em, especially split-time opposite direction, but that may be just me...


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JadedByEntropy
JadedByEntropy

stranger
Location: Charlotte, NC
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2009
Total posts: 4
Posted:Originally Posted By: kamiamnot to mention the collateral structure damage to the ceiling. // Any help on how to stop hurting self with the double staff would be MOST appreciated.
HAHAHAHAHAHA...thats me!
__
I started with "staff" [well, swords and walking sticks actually] and fell in love with poi. The biggest tip i can give you is slow down! you can't make them go faster, and you MUST wait on them to be in position before you do any transitions! They aim for your head[as i'm sure you've found out] when you try to cheat the pattern. I have some slow poi that drive me crazy, but i definately recommend going slow and learning with patience.


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The almond is a seed, not a nut, and is poisonous until heated.

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Tide
Future pyrotechnician...? Or something.
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Austr...
Member Since: 17th Jun 2009
Total posts: 111
Posted:I can spin both, but it becomes obvious that I'm mainly a poi person if you're actually watching.

Biggest hint, probably most obvious, too, is that poi pretty much spin themselves, the staff(s?) aren't so kind.


This statement is false...?

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omadawn
stranger

Member Since: 28th Sep 2008
Total posts: 7
Posted:I've not tried staff yet, (looking for one at the moment) but i know how much poi hurt, i remember limping slightly after finally learning a behind the back weave because i'd bashed my ankles soo much.
My advice would be to work with them one at a time, take it slow, and if you find yourself going out of plane, purposefully move your hand position to make it go out, then move your hands to bring it back in, it'll help you with associating hand positions.


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Chloe'
Chloe'

enthusiast
Location: SouthDakota, USA
Member Since: 27th Jan 2009
Total posts: 324
Posted:I've been spinning actual poi for about a year or so now (glowsticking for about 2 or 3). Started staff about a month ago and it's going well for me. But I do tend to use just one hand instead of both so I'm thinking about taking up double if I can find some scrap metal tubes at work that are the right length and diameter.
My friend, however, can't do poi to save her life but is getting staff down WHEN she actually practices. My point is that it just depends on the person. We all learn at different speeds and in different ways. Some just can't learn the same things others do. It just takes different amounts of work and perseverence (sp?).


Listen to Your heartbeat and dance...

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