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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:i hate preaching. especially when i can't really talk because i'm a teen, and one who is 1.5 months under the legal drinking age, myself. however last night i went to a party for a while(friend of a friend).
there was 3 guys and 1 girl. the guys were the 15-ish mark, the girl was 13.

this 13 year old girl was smashed. her shorts were falling down exposing her g-string. it was so sad and i was so freaking worried about her. her boyfriend (whom she had been with for a week) was completely off his nut more than her...he greeted us at the door with "haha, i have a boner". i was insanely worried about this girl! i managed to catch her in the bathroom and have a bit of a chat to her, but it, of course, went in one ear and out the other. but i refused to leave until i knew she was ok.
i managed to get her to sleep in the parents bedroom. i know parents bedrooms are supposed to be no-go zones, but i felt that there are priorities in life! so i managed to get her to sleep in there. turned the light off and shut the door.
that was all good until the boyfriend decided it was time for him to go to sleep as well! and he stormed into the parents room saying "my girlfriends in there" and got into bed with her and wouldnt move. we just couldnt move him! so we had to leave them. but he was pretty passed out and she was half asleep so we dont think anything would have happened. the boyfriend just wasnt going to move, and by now there were other people, not just me trying to separate them.

sorry, i just had to rant. i dont know about any of the other females here, but i feel there is a girl thing where you look out for each other, even if it means putting a stranger at a party to bed. i just felt incredibly worried about that girl. and it was great that two of the guy friends i was with (i was the only girl at my party as well) fully supported me in my taking care of the girl.

i hope that girl doesnt wake up in the morning feeling anything worse than a hangover.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Shawnie
GOLD Member since Mar 2004

Captain Shawnie the Dreaded


Total posts: 126
Posted:Hey Rouge. Props to you for being so considerate and responsible. I know sometimes it's hard to be in that position cause sometimes you don't even know the peeps and sometimes they don't seem to want your input anyway. Way to hang in there. Lots of people would have just said it's no fun being sober around this crap and would have gotten tanked too. You have every right to go on a mad rant about it too. It can be stressful and you're pretty harmless in letting it out. I say thank you for making the world a better place in some small way and to you, also I say a very responsible cheers. beerchug
clap


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Posted:I'm very impressed!!! hug hug hug

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Pink...?
BRONZE Member since Apr 2002

Pink...?

Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
Location: Over There

Total posts: 6140
Posted:hug
I think you were very responsible... If only your peers were too!
ubbangel


Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:I've got a patient right now with horrible cirrhosis of the liver from chronic alcoholism.



Started at age 13.



He's probably going to need a transplant.



The only thing it has to do with the post is the fact that he started drinking at that exact same age. It just jumped out at me.



frown


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:Quote:
Lots of people would have just said it's no fun being sober around this crap and would have gotten tanked too.



thanks, but while i'd love to take credit as a responsible person, i wont. i was drunk myself. just nowhere near that drunk. i was at the point where i was able to stop myself and act completely sober - even though i definately wasn't.

i'm not an angel and i unfortunately cant pose as one.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Look, at least you knew when to stop.



Frankly, as long as you learn a thing or two about moderation now, I'm happy.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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_Aime_
SILVER Member since Jan 2004

_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings

Total posts: 4172
Posted:My parents have always let me drink, from teh age of about 11 like a glass of wine at dinner or something so that they knew when i got to my age now when i drink (like most teenagers do) i would be responsible and know when to stop and not get parraletic(sp?) I think I've said before that if I want friends over, they'll chip in a few quid each and my mum'll go out and buy a few beers and breezers so that we can drink responsibly in the house, get giggly drunk and have a laugh. She buys it for us so that we can drink responsibly inside, and not go out of a night time in this god forsaken town trying to get strange pervy men in duffle coats to buy it for us.

The worst I have ever been was in germany(that word pops up again!!) , i was on a natural high being away from home with my friends, and me being the eldest went to the kiosk and bought a stupid amount of alchohol for everybody and proceded to drink my self silly.

Then i puked behind a tree in front of my exchange student and had to cycle 2 miles home drunk which was really scary eek im not proud of what i did redface as most people i know are like 'yeh i was soooo hammered that night, i cant remember what i did' and i now know where my limits are, i stop before i go too far. And i tend to lecture my friends aswell if i see them going a bit OTT.



You did good hug I would have done the same

EDITED_BY: x_aimee_x (1082924414)


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Rovo
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

Rovo

(the person actually known as Chris Bailey)
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Total posts: 544
Posted:My county has a really big problem with underage drinking and drug use. In New York State my county is ranked 1st in underage drinking problems next to New York City. I think its important for people to learn to drink in moderation. I am underage and i do drink often enough but i never get out of control or to the point of blacking out. Though i can't say the same for my friends. I have alot of friends that drink to get drunk and don't know their limits. It's sad. These are the people who drive drunk, get into fights, sleep with people they don't want to or even know, and are loud and obnoxious. They ruin everyone elses fun and are very annoying. It really gets on my nerves when people get sloppy drunk and can't take care of themselves. This also makes it hard for people that might not be 21 yet but drink occasionally to have a good time once in a while because the cops come down so hard on it now. It's important to learn to drink in moderation. In the long run it'll save yourself and others alot of trouble.

Peace, Love, Circles

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:I think that one of the most difficult concepts for Americans to understand is that sometimes slacking off a little on a problem actually makes the problem improve and that cracking down on the problem often makes it worse.

You'd think that given all the examples we've had in history, we'd have learned this lesson. I mean, Prohibition and all...


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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GottaLoveIt


GottaLoveIt

Sponge
Location: Stevenage

Total posts: 883
Posted:Yup, what Lightning said

Monkeys monkeys and bananas

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Quote:
My county has a really big problem with underage drinking and drug use. .............

........It's important to learn to drink in moderation.


Drinking in moderation is definitly far better than the out of control/excessive drinking that is so common.

I do feel though that it's important to point out that a life without any alcohol is also an option.

To this day, in western society, there is still a tendency to assume that those who choose not to drink are either abstaining alcoholics or strange.

In our culture alcohol use is deeply embedded, young people are faced with alcohol promotion so deeply engrained that it's seen as almost an essential part of becoming an adult.

The option of not drinking is, unfortunately, still closely associated with sometimes extreme groups with agendas of their own- eg temperance, straight edge, religious organisations. It also tends to be associated with notions of morality, denial and fear.

I think the option of living a life without alcohol, not through grudging denial, but because alcohol is recognised as unnecessary to living a happy, fulfilled and sociable life; is in need of more promotion.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:I know some people who don't drink because they don't like. My senior resident is a tiny little Asian woman. Now 95% of Asians lack the alcohol dehydrogenase gene that detoxifies one of the more toxic metabolic products of alcohol. And she's tiny.

So between the two, a single shot of hard liquor is enough to make her feel a bit ill.

Thus, she doesn't drink. She's no prude. In fact, I'd bet she'd be a screa...

Never mind. I'm not going to say that about my Senior resident. Talk about inappropriate... ubbangel


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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pounce
SILVER Member since Jan 2003

pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...

Total posts: 9831
Posted:hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug

to you rouge. you rock. you took responsibility and compassion and that is by far the most important thing in my book. you made sure that girl was safe, and you seriously need to be commended on that. thank you so much for being such a wonderful person!


I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas

Total posts: 3899
Posted:Mmmm... little asian senior residents who are screa... ubblove

ubblove ubblove ubblove



and now:

soapbox



So I think the major problem that the States have with underage drinking is very much self made, as lightning implied. Maybe this applies in Australia as well, but I wouldn't know. I think when people learn to manage alcohol when they are young and in an open enviroment (such as in most of Europe), then you don't get the same examples of excess consumption as often. Sure there will always be some alcoholics no matter what, but the victorian attitude the USA has about minors and so many things winds up producing, in my opinion, a profound psychological reaction that is directly opossed to the law's desired result.



Supposedly the laws are there to protect children, but what it really does is deny them the ability to adjust to large sections of human behaviour while they are still young and adjust easily to such things, creating problems later in life that could have been easily avoided had the child been allowed the opportunity to gain some limited/guided experience earlier on. It also produces the seduction of the taboo, which is again counter productive to the desired ends.



If we want to have well adjusted children, then they should see all of the society they should be adjusting too, instead of trying to hide or deny parts of it from them. Clearly they do need to be protected from some things and the perverts that come along with those things, but we are doing them no favors by being over protective, because that's when things happen like 13 year old girls getting too drunk at a party because they have no idea how alcohol affects them until they are in the situation and have already drunk too much.



I do not blame the 13 year old girl or the overly horny 15 year old boys (that's just the way teenage boys are, nothing to be done about it short of sterilizing them) no matter how drunk they are. I blame society and the parents of these children who do not have the initiative to teach their children what they need to know. Basic parenting 101 should be about teaching your children about the real lessons in life that schools can't (which can only be expected to cover math and grammar and history and such things).



To expect a child to wait till they are 18 or 21 (depending on where they live) to try alcohol and then think they are going to use it responsibly thereafter is totally stupid and completely irresponsible, both on the part of the society and the parents. No one expects someone to magically know how to handle a car the moment they turn 16 (or 18 depending on where they live) without prior training, and alcohol can be just as dangerous when improperly used as a car can be.



mad2



-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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Laavel
BRONZE Member since Oct 2003

Laavel

member
Location: Halifax

Total posts: 21
Posted:there really isn't anything wrong for someone in their later teens drinking, i've given up preaching to my friends a while ago. As long as the persons responsable and knows their own limit. My own personal opinion on drinking isn't the usual, as i myself find it kinda stupid as in it tastes like crap and makes you feel worse in the end, but thats just me, and i do have friends that drink and i don't mind.

Happy you helped that girl out. I have a sister who is 12 and im scared she'll be like that.


Where has my heart gone, trapped in the eyes of a stanger

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MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004

MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG

Total posts: 3415
Posted:Im going to go with vanize on this one.



Another point is that why is a person, on the day before their 18th/21st birthday too irresponsible to touch a single drop of anything slightly alcoholic, but a day later they can go get a couple of bottles of spirits and drink themselves into a coma/death? Its pure stupidity, i reckon.



Allowing children to drink, in moderation, from a younger age, is the way to go, i think. start off with a glass of wine with the parents, at the pub. learn moderation, the only way it can be taught.



Brilliant job maintaining the sobriety to be that responsible, Rouge. clap



Why the hell is a 13 year old wearing a g-string? whats the world coming to? lacy training bras?

EDITED_BY: MiG (1083071973)


"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:You bring up some good points Vanize.. though I must disagree with some.

I'll try to keep it short and sweet since I've discussed this to death in association with my Job. I'm a HS teacher in a very alcoholic suburban school.

I don't see kids drinking 'because it's illegal' and I don't see any positive impact of lowering the drinking age to 18 or 16 or 4. If the drinking age was lowered EVEN MORE kids would drink. It would be accessable to kids at an even younger age.

There are many other factors in American culture that foster teen drinking. Making it difficult for teens to get alcohol keeps them drunk 5 days a week rather than 7.

Most of the drunk teens that I encounter become drunk with alcohol that their parents buy for them. Parent's don't want to be the 'bad guy' (which is their friggin job) so they throw keg parties for their kids. Keep in mind that parents CAN allow children to have a beer or two in their own home. Just like most other countries.

Most teen alcoholism that I see comes down as a symptom of bad parenting. The kids that aren't drinking HEAVILY are usually the ones with strong, positve parental influences. A few very strong and mature kids (like some of the HoP kids above) are able to make up their own minds based on the experiences that they see which is admirable.

The excuses that parents give when buying their kids MASSIVE amounts of alcohol are stupid and a cop out from parenting. I don't think it's the law that makes kids want to drink, nor do I think changing the law alone would reduce teen alcoholism. I can't imagine having to teach a classroom of 16 year olds who were all legally drunk. At least now, with alcohol illegal, schools can parent during the day, since no one else seems to be.

I guess what I'm rambling on about is...
I feel that parents are doing such a poor job parenting that the government needs to step in and do their job for them... the only way that the government can actually do that is to ban alcohol from all children.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas

Total posts: 3899
Posted:I don't think there is any disagreement between our posts NYC, just a matter of what we emphasized being different. I totally agree that it is a matter of bad parenting, at least in specific cases. But I also think that there is an undue amount of pressure on parents from society in America that helps result in bad parenting in general (at least in this regard).



I don't propose lowering the drinking age really. Actually I think the main *real* reason for having a drinking age is so that people in their 20s and 30s don't have to put up with a bunch of teenagers in their bars.



But what I am talking about it the victorian attitude where a parent who shares alcohol with their children in an effort to introduce them responsibly to alcohol is viewed by other parents as being a 'bad influence' and other retarded attitudes like that. My sister got a lot of heat from parents of her daughters school mates because of this and it is just plain ridiculous. it is the children of those parents who are going to be the ones making/getting in trouble, because my sister's kids can handle themsleves very well (this I know and am confident of).


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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spritie
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX

Total posts: 2014
Posted:I agree with what NYC and vanize have to say. I do think parents have a lot to do with whether or not their children know how to drink responsibly or are taught that drinking is not everything. NYC, even if the drinking age in the states did get lowered to 18 again, it could still be illegal for a child to show up to school drunk and disciplinary action should still be taken to avoid that situation.

The guy I am currently dating started going to AA meetings 3 years before he was legally able to drink. Can you say he started a tad early? He had a very supportive family, they just had no idea how bad his problem really was. They didn't buy the alcohol for him. He bought it himself. I've found that there is always (at least there used to be 10 years ago) someplace that is very willing to sell to minors. My brother used to have no problem buying kegs of beer himself while he was in high school. They bought them on a weekly basis and the "whacky iraqi" as they called him at the time was all too happy to take their money. I think it is people like that that should be on the lookout for a possible problem. I think that a lot of teens that buy liquour from a certain place on a very regular basis might possibly have a problem. The seller of that alcohol should be held responsible as well. Too bad most of the american business people are way too concerned with making a profit these days instead of the welfare of the people they are selling to.

I there some sort of class or skill set that parents could learn as far as how to teach their children to be more responsible about alcohol? Mine certainly didn't try. I just got lucky in that I was never really interested in the stuff after watching my father and his sad behavior. My brother was the opposite of me and loved the stuff in high school, but was a strong enough individual to not think it was the greatest gift out there.

Is there a way to give people the inner strength to know when is too much without having them drink to excess repeatedly? How do they avoid drowning their sorrows in booze? I think these are the things that should be focused on instead of saying alcohol is bad and setting an unrealistic drinking age.


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Trillian
BRONZE Member since Feb 2004

Trillian

Llamas are larger than frogs.
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Total posts: 319
Posted:Excellent job Rouge clap
Sorry, a little off topic, but how is it that in the US you are legally an adult at 18, yet you can't drink until you are 21?


"I know a good deal more than a boiled carrot."
"Fire!" "Where?" "Nowhere, I was just illustrating the misuse of free speech."

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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane

Total posts: 3044
Posted:they lowered the drinking age from 20 to 18 in new zealand a few years back.

the best comment i heard was by an old digger [WW2 veteran]. - he said
"if you can join the army and die for your country, yet somehow survive, you should be able to have a beer afterwards."


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:well done Rouge. I wish someone like you had of been around when I was thirteen... would have saved me so much pain.
you are an angel angel


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Quote:
I don't see kids drinking 'because it's illegal' and I don't see any positive impact of lowering the drinking age to 18 or 16 or 4. If the drinking age was lowered EVEN MORE kids would drink. It would be accessable to kids at an even younger age.




I agree that the legality of it has nothing to do with it. It is all about American culture. Fact is that as long as Americans view alcohol as a vice, rather than simply as a part of life, American teenagers will want to do it.

If, on the other hand, alcohol were viewed as a part of life, as something that even young teenagers should be exposed to, teen drinking wouldn't be nearly the problem it is here. In most of Europe, parents start including wine with their childrens' meals when the kids are as young as 10 or 11. The servings are small, and most of the kids don't like it very much because it tastes bad. But it very quickly demystifies the entire thing.

My father gave me my first sip of gin when I was 3 or 4 and asked for a sip. I remember the day quite clearly. ICCCKKKKK!!! And right then and there, any mystique or allure of alcohol disappeared forever. Poof!

From that day forward, I was always welcome to any of the alcohol in the house, as long as I never left the house after drinking. But you bet that after my little experience with it, I never touched the stuff until I was 17 or 18.

Today, I have a very adult European attitude about alcohol in general. I enjoy a glass of wine or two with dinner now and again, but I never drink to get completely wasted.

In order to reduce teen drinking in the U.S., the false puritanism about alcohol has to disappear. If more parents stopped thinking that forbidding their kids from drinking was actually going to stop it and instead taught them about responsible drinking, far fewer kids would ever get into that trouble.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004

MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG

Total posts: 3415
Posted:Quote:
If, on the other hand, alcohol were viewed as a part of life, as something that even young teenagers should be exposed to, teen drinking wouldn't be nearly the problem it is here. In most of Europe, parents start including wine with their childrens' meals when the kids are as young as 10 or 11. The servings are small, and most of the kids don't like it very much because it tastes bad. But it very quickly demystifies the entire thing.



Er, thats what i was talking about - limited amounts of alcohol, say one standard drink, starting at, say, 14-15(here, that is, where 18 is legal), 3 at 16, 4-5 at 17, and unlimited at 18.

And one thing about aussie laws is, that the licencee can actually get fined for provision of alcohol to a person under the age of 18.


"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas

Total posts: 3899
Posted:ditto

what lightning said was pretty much my point, just worded more sussinctly.

licensees can and do get fined in the states too for selling to minors, but generally they make more money selling to minors than they ever do by getting fined, so they just keep doing it unless they know they are being targeted by the cops for doing so.


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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Rovo
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

Rovo

(the person actually known as Chris Bailey)
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Total posts: 544
Posted:Quote:
My sister got a lot of heat from parents of her daughters school mates because of this and it is just plain ridiculous. it is the children of those parents who are going to be the ones making/getting in trouble, because my sister's kids can handle themsleves very well (this I know and am confident of).




I was allowed to drink when i was younger just not all the time, only if i didn't get really drunk, and only when i told my mother where i would be who i was with etc. Eventually parents found out about this and the fact that i drink and i was considered a bad influence and still am to this day. Parents all around my town think of me as this horrible kid when their own children smoke copius amounts of pot daily, drink way more often then i do, and even smoke cigarettes which is worse then anything. These are the people who drive drunk and get into fights making it hard for people who can drink responsibly. It just makes me angry how parents wouldn't let their kids talk to me or hang out with me but when i finally meet the parents of these people they end up liking me cause instead of this drunk burnt out hippie that they picture me as they see a guy who graduated high school with honors, who has tons of strange yet fulfilling hobbies (poi and bass guitar ubblove) , and reads constantly. I almost always end up being liked in the end even though I was judged so poorly before they even knew who i was. Sometimes I just hate people.


Moderation is Key smile


Peace, Love, Circles

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Puk
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

Puk

Sweet talented nutter
Location: Brisbane Oz

Total posts: 2615
Posted:Im impressed how well you managed the situation . ubbangel

that shrewd and knavish sprite

Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy

I am the merry wander of the night -puk

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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas

Total posts: 3899
Posted:hey rovo - your story sounds like my Niece's which I refered to. She's one of the best people in the world, and I don't see how anyone could consider her a bad influence. People are strange.

hug

so I was talking about this thread with some Berliners yesterday. Interesting in that they didn't really see where the problem was - they had no problem with a thirteen year old being drunk, and no problem with the fact that she might have sex. they seemed to be of the opinion that she probably knew what she was doing. then they told me that most girls probably lose their virginity around 13 or 14 anyway, which they didn't seem to have a problem with. did you know the age of conscent in austria (NOT australia) is 14?

I guess I'm a wee more conservative than Berliners are...


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Quote:

so I was talking about this thread with some Berliners yesterday. Interesting in that they didn't really see where the problem was - they had no problem with a thirteen year old being drunk, and no problem with the fact that she might have sex. they seemed to be of the opinion that she probably knew what she was doing. then they told me that most girls probably lose their virginity around 13 or 14 anyway, which they didn't seem to have a problem with. did you know the age of conscent in austria (NOT australia) is 14?

I guess I'm a wee more conservative than Berliners are...



Actually, the average age at first sex in Western Europe is about 14 or 15 I think. Which is about 2 years younger than in the U.S. Yet the teen pregnancy rate and STD rate in Western Europe is far lower.

Coincidence?

The U.S. has the highest drinking age in the world (not including countries that ban alcohol outright) and also among the toughest drug laws. The U.S. also has the highest per-capita damages per year due to alcohol and one of the highest rates of drug use in the world.

Coincidence?

Egg-->chicken-->egg--->chicken...


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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the screeming flaming dude


Yes, as a matter of fact, i do use fire poi. Why do you ask?
Location: inside your head

Total posts: 104
Posted:(low whistle)

Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
--------------------------------------------------------
HEY, I COULD SPIN THAT!

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