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Forums > Social Discussion > A rant about drunk spinners

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Page: 1234
Cloud Spark


member


Total posts: 4
Posted:Hi. I'm actually a very well-known member of the board. Look at my login name and you can probably figure out who I am if you free-associate for a second. I'm going to rant about someone I know in person and it's possible that she might read this (even though she doesn't usually visit the board), so I'm using this alter-ego in hopes of staying out of trouble.

So I was doing some fireplay for a party. The space that I had was too small for poi, but large enough for fire eating and tracing. I had just finished my act when she showed up, drunk off her a$$, and DEMANDING that I let her spin fire with my poi, which I wouldn't let anyone do in that space even if they sober. And she got really pissy about it when I flat-out refused. I told her she could use my beamers or my LED glow sticks and after pissing at me and telling me to stop being such a safety nazi, she finally tried out my LED glowstick poi.

And she SUCKED!!! I mean, she could do the forward two-beat weave and the windmill and that's it. And she hit herself three times in the first 15 seconds. I let her use my beamers on the condition that she first touch one to her forehead to understand how dangerous they were and she hit herself with those, too. (My view is that I don't care if you hurt yourself as long as you don't hurt anyone else, which is why fire was out of the question).

Sorry, I just wanted to vent. I hate incompetent drunk people who think they can get off demanding to spin fire with my poi. mad mad mad mad

Oh, and if you figure out who I am, PLEASE don't post my real name as that would defeat the purpose of this alter-ego. rolleyes


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Mr_Jedly
GOLD Member since Jan 2004

Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia

Total posts: 195
Posted:anyone who spins while drunk is nucking futs if you ask me...
one or two drinks is fine by me, no probs. but personally if I can feel the effects of alcohol I will NOT spin with fire, and STRONGLY encourage other people not to either. If they do, i just gotta stick around to make sure they're safe & don't f#ck up.
couldn't have that on my conscience...
but that's just me.


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.

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Kaji


Kaji

Quantum Theorist
Location: Vansterdam

Total posts: 564
Posted:ah crap I forgot what I was going to say. Does any one know what I was going to say?

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Anyone?

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oh yah, I've seen some pretty stupid things done by perfictly sober spinners to.


In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird, now the world is weird and they take prozac to make it normal again.

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MillenniuM
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

MillenniuM

Hyperloops suck


Total posts: 595
Posted:Before I make my point, let me give you some information:

1. I am firmly against fire spinning while under the influence of drugs or alcohol. For MYSELF.
2. I have a personal philosophy that if someone wants to put themself in danger, by all means, go for it.

That being said, I think most of you are missing the monkey's point (I never thought I'd say anything about someone missing the point of an animal ubblol ). There's a billion kajillion things every single one of us could do to spin fire more safely. It is each person's personal responsibility to choose to what point they will persue safety. If it is someone's choice to put THEMSELF and NO OTHERS at risk, so be it. Let them. I could just as easily turn the issue around and yell at you for not completely wetting yourself down before each burn. This is NOT a seperate issue as many of you might try to claim, as it demonstrates that you have chosen your level of safety and are comfortable with it. The drunken fools that spin fire have chosen their level of safety, and are comfortable with it as well.

If you make the argument that "one drunken idiot can ruin it for all of us", I see and understand your point. If you are truly worried about that, talk to your local authorities and say "______ is stupid and spins fire drunk. We don't. Don't assume one drunken spinner represents us all". But please, don't be a hypocrit and state that someone isn't being as safe as they possibly could be, because you aren't either.


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Kytten


Kytten

member
Location: Cairns, Australia

Total posts: 21
Posted:I know i may be a little late for this post but...
LATEESHA ELIZABETH...i don't ever want to here from anyone that you are fire twirling whilst intoxicated, it is way to dangerous i agree with most of the other users of HOP when they say that it is dangerous and that it is a mind altering substance.
next time i see you missy your going to get a whack over the head. Listen to the people that care about you most baby girl


You bastard!

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:This is at least the second time someones mentioned that those who don't wet themselves down completely are not being as safe as they can, so here's an extract from a past post of Pele's about someone doing this and it going horribly wrong: -







Quote:
About 3 years ago a boy who shall remain un-named thought he would be extra safe by wearing wet clothes with dry clothes over them to do some fire play. It went BADLY wrong and he cooked himself like a lobster. His dry clothes caught fire, heated the water on the damp clothes and caused him to have 3rd degree steam burns over a good share of his body. His friends did the stop-drop-and roll, but since the water of the clothes was already heated the burning process continued. He was admitted to the ER and remained in the burn unit for a fairly long time. He had taken what he thought was good safety precautions, even had friends who knew what to do, and was injured far worse than if he had have stayed in dry clothes.







Most of us here who don't want drunks at our meets aren't claiming that we ourselves are being as safe as is humanly possible, but we have set a level that precludes drink or drugs being used at a meet.



Concerning :



'If it is someone's choice to put THEMSELF and NO OTHERS at risk, '



At a fire meet, a drunk is a danger not just to him/her self, but to those spinning or watching in the vicinity.



Lastly, you seem to be saying that it's ok for someone to endanger themselves if they want to, but I really don't want to have to watch a fire breathe go wrong, or hear some one screaming their heads off because they've got a burning wick wrapped and stuck on their arm.



Like I said above, it's totally feasible for the groups who organise fire meets to set limits which apply not only to themselves, but to everyone who turns up. Then, if individuals really want to engage in behaviour that is considered too risky by the group, they can go off and do it by themselves so we don't have to watch them burn, or face the flak from the authorities when the clamp down comes.



So, I agree with you fully that if someone wants to set their own level of personal risk, then that's fine; but, equally, it's fine if a group set a level as to what they want at their meets, which could concievably include a ban on fire breathing and the use of intoxicants.



"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
Posted:*the following post doesnt neccessarily reflect the views of the HOP management*

Another point is that not all drunken firetwirling fools understand the risks associated with such behaviour - I think this has been demonstrated in this thread, and other related threads.

There is a big difference between educated risk taking and foolish bravado.

I think a valuable message is getting diluted with what are IMHO misguided attempts at civil libertarianism.

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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MillenniuM
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

MillenniuM

Hyperloops suck


Total posts: 595
Posted:Quote:
At a fire meet, a drunk is a danger not just to him/her self, but to those spinning or watching in the vicinity.



Frankly I don't understand why you wrote this... you gave an example of someone who is putting others at risk, not just themself, which I quite obviously don't agree with. I never said anything about people in the vicinity... obviously if you're drunk and you have an audience, you're either immature, don't understand the risks, or an idiot. However, this has no bearing on the argument... we are all in agreement that such actions are wrong.

Quote:
Lastly, you seem to be saying that it's ok for someone to endanger themselves if they want to, but I really don't want to have to watch a fire breathe go wrong, or hear some one screaming their heads off because they've got a burning wick wrapped and stuck on their arm.



If you're a sober person watching drunk people spin, then they should not be spinning drunk. Yet again, this isn't a relavent issue; if they are spinning with an audience, they should not be drinking.

Quote:
Like I said above, it's totally feasible for the groups who organise fire meets to set limits which apply not only to themselves, but to everyone who turns up. Then, if individuals really want to engage in behaviour that is considered too risky by the group, they can go off and do it by themselves so we don't have to watch them burn, or face the flak from the authorities when the clamp down comes.

So, I agree with you fully that if someone wants to set their own level of personal risk, then that's fine; but, equally, it's fine if a group set a level as to what they want at their meets, which could concievably include a ban on fire breathing and the use of intoxicants.



I 100% agree. I go to a monthly fire spin on a beach, I actually went to the last one on Friday night. Spinners cannot be under the influence of anything if they wish to participate. Fuel dump is ~25 feet away from the spinning area. Audience may not be inside of the spinning area, nor too close to the fuel dump.

I think we're in agreement for the most part. The only thing that we seem to disagree with does not have anything to do with poi, but rather, our level of freedom people should be given in regards to their own well being. I believe that a person's freedom should not be limited simply because of their lower values of self respect and self safety. If you want to put yourself at a greater risk, go ahead, as long as I don't have to be affected by your stupidity.


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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:M,

Do you think drunk driving should be legal?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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MillenniuM
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

MillenniuM

Hyperloops suck


Total posts: 595
Posted:No.

However, if you were the only person on an empty track, drunk off your arse, no chance of harming anyone else, and no one watching you wreck horribly? Be my guest.

Kind of an irrelevent point, as drunk driving is more dangerous to other people on the road than the drunk driver themself (Drunk drivers survive two-car accidents more often than sober people due to a relaxed body at time of impact).


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Cloud Spark


member


Total posts: 4
Posted:That's what I feel about fire spinning. The only reason it would even be remotely acceptable to spin fire while altered would be if you were standing out in the middle of the Playa at Burning Man or on a large beach or somewhere where there is no way you could possibly start a fire that would spread outside of your immediate vicinity. In that event, the only person at risk would be you.

Fine. I don't recommend it, but if you're the only one at risk, I'm OK with that.

However, the in the situation above, there were trees around. In fact, it wouldn't have been a suitable place to spin fire sober because of low-hanging branches. 99% of the time, when people are spinning, it is conceivably possible that something other than the spinner, the fuel dump, or the toys could catch on fire.

Here's my advice: if you can find a spot like those I described above, stand as far as you can from anything that might even be remotely flammable (meaning anything organic [living or dead...and remember that plastics are organic compounds], anything electrical, cars, buildings, etc.) other than your fuel dump. If you can swing your poi as hard as you can and throw them as far as you can and you don't come within 50 meters of something flammable, then if you REALLY want to spin fire drunk, at least you can't hurt anything other than yourself.

As I said, the opportunities for such a venue are few and far between. It requires a very large beach with the tide out, a playa, or some other remote location.

Any less than that, and you are putting others at unnecessary risk and I will do everything in my power to stop it, including notifying authorities.


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MillenniuM
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

MillenniuM

Hyperloops suck


Total posts: 595
Posted:Like I said, we're in agreement. Whenever I spin fire, I'm always at the beach. At high tide, there's always at least 80 feet of sand... more than enough of a buffer zone. I never really considered lighting things on fire other than people an issue, but I can see how it might be more of an issue for those of you who spin inland in lush parks and such.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:In general, many people might get a wee touch irritated when you burn down their houses. And I think that Southern California has had more than its share of wildfires lately, don't you?

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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MillenniuM
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

MillenniuM

Hyperloops suck


Total posts: 595
Posted:Lightning, I appreciate your intentions, but questions you already know the answer to without a followup making it rhetorical aren't exactly aiding in... anything. Yet again, I don't really see the purpose in your statement. Of course we don't need any more wildfires. Of course I'm against drunk driving. So what?

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:The point being that when a fire head breaks off a chain and goes flying into a tree or into a clump of grass, or under a wooden porch, a sober person will be much more likely to be able to deal with the emergency than a drunk/high/etc. person.

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Big Andy
BRONZE Member since Apr 2003

member
Location: Dallas, Tx

Total posts: 186
Posted:hahaha.... I just typed out this hugely long post talking about someone who spins on drugs that I know.... then decided against posting it... oh well.

Basically, spinning under the influence isn't right, but none of us can control what others do, and risks can be minimized through other safety measures. If there is a meet where people are consistently drinking excessivley and engaging in dangerous practices, then it should certainly be stopped/prevented. However, if the venue is safe, there are sober safety people, and the person can demonstrate their ability to spin controllably with something that's NOT on fire, then I don't think it's that big of a deal.

I'm not saying that I don't think drunken spinning is a big deal!! It most definately is a horrible idea that puts everyone around in danger. However, there are situations that I wouldn't really have a problem with someone who isn't completely sober spinning fire. Like I said, if there is a group attitude that spinning drunk is funny, or if a meet is over-run with silly, unsafe practices, then there is abviously a problem, and I will stand by that. Safety is no joke, and i never intend to undermine that fundamental truth.


"We can't stop here! This is bat country!"

"Welcome to the U-S-A,
We'll treat you right, unless you're black or gay, or Cherokeeeeee!!"

-Brian Griffin from "Family Guy" (the dog)

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Quote:

Basically, spinning under the influence isn't right, but none of us can control what others do...... However, if the venue is safe, there are sober safety people, and the person can demonstrate their ability to spin controllably with something that's NOT on fire, then I don't think it's that big of a deal.




Not entirely sure what you're saying here- if you mean that we can't stop drunken people spinning at a fire meet, then I disagree, as I've said before we can ask them not to spin.

If you mean that we can't stop people spinning drunk in other places then you're right, that's entirely their choice.

The in between scenario is the usual kind of meet where there's little or no organisation, and some of the regulars have got into the habit of spinning whilst under the influence. In that case, those who disagree either have to make an attempt to get the thing more organised, or, discontinue going to that meet and set up one of their own which disallows alcohol/drugs.

Some seem to have the attitude that alcohol is only a problem in excess, and this would be true if the consumption was guaranteed to remain below a safe level; however, it's the nature of drinking that it frequently goes to excess, with some individuals being more prone to this than others.

It seems to me that the most practical way to prevent drunkeness at a fire meet is to make it clear that no alcohol is welcome at any level. Given that we're talking about a gathering based on spinning and fire, I don't see why that should be a problem; if people feel drinking to be more important than spinning then maybe they'd be better off going to a pub than a spinning meet?


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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MillenniuM
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

MillenniuM

Hyperloops suck


Total posts: 595
Posted:Quote:
The point being that when a fire head breaks off a chain and goes flying into a tree or into a clump of grass, or under a wooden porch, a sober person will be much more likely to be able to deal with the emergency than a drunk/high/etc. person.



...Okay. I agree. I still don't see your point. If a fire head breaks off and goes flying in to a tree, the venue that I specified (No chance of danger to other people or property) does not apply. For the 18 billionth time, I am in agreement to you that drunken spinning should not be tolerated if there is danger to anything other than the spinner. That still doesn't change anything I said.


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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:I don't think getting authoritarian about safety help solve anything. People just get angry. I like to know wot strategies people use to deal with difficult situations? This at least gets people thinking about what they can do, to educate others on the dangers of fire.



Lightning, I'd get those pois, the ones that keep breaking, fixed properly next time, hey! wink


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Kaji


Kaji

Quantum Theorist
Location: Vansterdam

Total posts: 564
Posted:I can't think of any situation where spinning fire dosn't have an inherent danger to others. Now a sober spinner can think clearly and take proactive steps to minize said danger, or at the very least react when it occurs.
Nor am i delueded enough to think that I could even come close to my normal ability to react, if I had been drinking. Bottem line playing with fire when drunk is alway a danger to others.


In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird, now the world is weird and they take prozac to make it normal again.

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:Lightning - Your point that drunken spinners, to avoid uneccesary risk, would have to spin from low-hanging branches or other flammable bits of the environment...
confused
don't you do that sober anyway?

Onewheeldave - Cheers for the wet clothes\steam-burn reminder eek i'd totally forgotten that...

Josh says:
Quote:
Another point is that not all drunken firetwirling fools understand the risks associated with such behaviour - I think this has been demonstrated in this thread, and other related threads.

There is a big difference between educated risk taking and foolish bravado.

I think a valuable message is getting diluted with what are IMHO misguided attempts at civil libertarianism.



well, i'm glad you acknowledge that some of us drunken fools do understand the risks... umm

Yes, it is a valuable message. But there's a confusion over whether that message is:

Spinning fire while drunk can be extremely dangerous to yourself and others.
or
DO NOT spin fire drunk
or
Drunken firespinners are idiotic losers

The problem of this civil libertarian is that these distinctly different messages seem to be lumped together. i agree with the first, and indeed noone here is disagreeing with it.

The second and third messages are undermining the first.

Some elements of this thread remind me of the drug "education" that used to exist in the UK, with greater emphasis on rhetoric and zeal than on factual objective information. Nowadays UK schools have excellent factual drug education, and drug use in young people is falling (though of course we can't know whether that's directly related)

Whether you like it or not, people WILL make up their own minds on safety rather than unquestioningly listening to your point of view. i'm worried about people ignoring important safety messages because they feel the general tone of safety discussion to be "preachy" as opposed to informative. i feel safety issues on this board would be better discussed with less moralising and more pragmatism.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
Posted:Sim,

I apologise for labelling all people that drink and twirl as fools. Thats not what I intended to say or believe to be true.

We all know here that accidents of all kinds are SOO much more likely to happen when people are intoxicated. I believe that Alcohol/intoxication is not just one dangerous factor among many, it has a catalytic effect, it increases other risks, and thats why I think it needs special consideration -I personally wouldnt put it on the same level as using cable on your poi for example.

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:no disagreements here smile

actually, i've stopped spinning fire poi due to safety concerns (largely related to my customary levels of intoxication... ubbangel)

i've only done one poi burn in the last six months or so, and don't intend to ever do another.

(unless i'm getting paid)
(or i really want to show off)
(or if it's too cold and dark for socks)
(or if everyone else is doing it)
(or... godammit, i've got the willpower of a sponge frown


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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