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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:I'm just wondering (and not out of competitivness - I can't do 'em all yet smile ) whether you can do any / all of the following moves.

1) BTB TTN (all directions)

2) BTH TTN (all directions)

3) BTB 4 beat TTN

4) BTH 4 beat TTN

5) Split time BTB / TBTH TTN eek

It'd be cool if you said whether you plan on learning them too, cause I'm interested to know?

I don't believe a lot is gained with these moves visually by themselves, but they certainly are worth learning me thinks.

Of the ones I have learnt I've certainly gotten the same satisfaction as any other moved I've learnt. They have also open up transitions into moves (BTB butterfly waistwrap without coming back in front) that wouldn't otherwise be possible, as well as ways of dancing (getting into it) better(think ttn and dancing).

One of the reasons I'm wondering is also because of all this hype about loops (ubbangel) and other more "complicated" moves and what can be missed out on.


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.


Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:no no no no no smile


weasel does a lovely btb waistwrap-stretch split-time isolation (follow not butterfly)

which is another funky one from the school of bending-your-arms-round-in-silly-ways-then-doing-complicated-stuff biggrin

edit- it's backwards. Haven't seen forwards too, cos it'd be very hard.

EDITED_BY: simian (1076668958)

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:yes yes no no no yes.

i find bth easier than btb when doing thread the needle - bf weave ugly anyone...? ubblol

and you are right about a proper btb bf ww.

they're disgustingly hard - i've never seen a split time one.

jonnny moohaahaa can kind of do one of the same time ones ubbrollsmile

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Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:i think i can do a full non-alternating butterfly btb ww...

i took it from doing it with two sticks, and it took me ages to learn with them ubbangel

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:yes yes yes no no...at least I think no on the last one.. I don't spin split time bf stuff.. it just doesnt work with my style...

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old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:My inwards btb butterflies suck.

But I can do a mean 3Bt BF BTB Outwards (split time ttn) in the wall plane

I could almost do 3Bt BF Weave BTB in wheel plane but never quite got comfortable with repeating it.

They are all great moves though and certainly open up masses of possibilities.

I stopped practicing them when i started throwing my poi around, then i got into hyperloopery.

Personally throws and contact poi are way higher on my list of things to learn. However, learning moves like the ones mentioned will make for a very strong foundation so go for it.


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Location: Aotearoa (NZ)
Member Since: 17th Oct 2003
Total posts: 625
Posted:umm Do you mean that bad a$$ ttn weave that jo derry does in front??? (4bt ttn weave btb?) If so NO i cant do that btb, in front is hard enough, as far as 3bts and splittimes in all those planes... no prob's.

A friend talked about "quantums" when you learn about 10 different moves, while cleaning old moves and moves not quit "in your set" and then you continually learn new moves all the time, which takes alot of the pain out of waiting for afew weeks to just learn 1 move.

Just has to do with time management, u spend 5min on loops, 10 on new moves, 5 on cleaning etc etc obviously there are guanna be moves that take 6months to learn, but if your learning other moves inbetween praticing that move, you neva feel stagnated, or bored.

Back to the topic, personally i dont think it matters that much, cause noone can even see your doing btb ttn so its pointless, unless you just wanna say "Im the Man, i can do 4bt btb ttn weave" although it dose widen you base, and skill lvl. wave


Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:i agree with everything dragon just said biggrin

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
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Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:yes yes yes yes yes. rolleyes

all good to know but... still one level lower than you ought to have them for lots more airwraps. you oughta be able to inch around back and forth from split time to normal time inside all these. and be able to turn at any point of course.

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Location: middle of Troon
Member Since: 22nd Jan 2004
Total posts: 1269
Posted:i dunno what ttn means so dunno but as the only thing i can do behind the back is flutterby and almost a weave prob no no no no no no no hehe

educate me please!

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Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2002
Total posts: 2723
Posted:ttn is thread the needle.

I can sort of do a behind the back butterfly, but not anywhere good enough to get a ttn going with it.

The only trick I can do reliably well behind the back is the btb reverse weave.

I'm working like mad on the btb forward weave, as MAnd can attest, but...well...I'm a slow slow learner with some things.

Other folks say those tricks are possible, so I'd believe em...but I'd love to see a btb ttn.

Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Interesting questions DSS.

1) BTB TTN. No, havent felt a need for it yet, but I think about it from time to time.
2) BTH TTN. Yes, but I not very well. Not one I practice much.
3) BTB 4 beat TTN. No
4) BTH 4 beat TTN. No
5) Split time BTB / TBTH TTN. Dont think. Trying to improve my split-time bf TTN.

6) bf weave ugly anyone? No, but I have a very ugly bf upper fountain. One day Ill get the one I want there.

Special thanks to the contributors in the recent waist wrap discussion on the bottom carry, as now Im starting to get into btb bf wws. Cheers.

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Location: Sultan,WA
Member Since: 23rd Oct 2003
Total posts: 68
Posted:I'm afraid I cant do any of those as of yet, and have no one to spin with who can do it....well for that matter no one to spin with period. I'm starting to think I am the only spinner in Washington. frown

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hopeless addict
Location: nodnoL
Member Since: 8th Apr 2003
Total posts: 121
Posted:i can btb ttn in the wall plane as well as the ttn weave btb. with the ttn i can make it 3 and 4 beat depending on which side i'm on. it's kinda cheaty because i mainly move the one arm. and visually it does look nice once you manage to do it not contorting your body in an obscene way. and it looks lovely once you get some thru wraps in there too.

bth is yet to be explored and split time is baffling me btb. it may have to wait because today i believe i began my obsession with club juggling...

Ninjas NEVER give up!


Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:I know what you mean, I just started juggling clubs too smile

Mainly towards Taniwha and Nix....I know they mightn't look like anything worth learning but I reckon they totally are and I already gave an example of the one you mentioned.....the btb ttn.....not to mention turning.

I wasn't refering to the BTB TTN weave at any point ubblove but only a straight forward 4 bt btb butterfly and split time variations...specifically because these move MAY look the same.

Anyway moves like the 4 beat TTN you dance way more in front so why not behind.

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.