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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:So I'm sitting here looking at my little Paco (a Poodle/Shiba-Inu mix that we got out of a shelter) and Zoe (a Basenji/street-dog mix from Taiwan) and pondering why the American and British Kennel Clubs exist and why people who claim to love dogs so much would spend so much time, money, and energy making more dogs to add to the overpopulation problem. Especially when some breeds of dogs are so genetically grotuesque that none of them live long and healthy lives (like Pugs with their noses and German Shepherds with their hips).

Our little guy was apparently rescued by the foster group two weeks shy of when he was going to be put down in the shelter. And, while he's lacking in some socialization and we're working on some behavior issues, he's wonderful.

I'm sorry to offend if anyone here breeds dogs, but why create something that is already overabundant?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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hamamelis
hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.
Member Since: 5th Jan 2006
Total posts: 756
Posted:Same reason people breed deformed goldfish that can barely swim, with eyes that point straight upwards so they can barely see, and have a fraction of their potential lifespan.

Some people just see animals as 'things' that can be bred to fit a supposed aesthetic ideal regardless of what effect this has on the animal's actual health. Some people are jerks.


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

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Seaspray
Seaspray

stranger by the day
Location: At the Back of the North Wind
Member Since: 8th Jul 2009
Total posts: 924
Posted:mm, all the inbreeding is apparently ruining the temperaments of Golden Retrivers frown

Though we have bred our own litter of Chesapeake Bay Retrivers. It wasn't for the money, I think we came out at a loss in fact. But we've still got one of the puppies now (though as it's a good 3/4 years one he's now huge).

While it was mainly my parents who were involved in the breeding side, I know they were extraordinarily careful. But I helped out a huge amount with the puppies, and that was a joy. If we could have kept them we would, in fact we even fostered and re-homed one of our puppies after it's owner's living situation changed and they couldn't keep it.

The problem are the people who breed for profit, or for another ribbon from a dog show to put on the walls. And guess who make up roughly half of the Kennel Club/whatever


Just a dancer in the dark

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Gnor
Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth
Member Since: 31st Mar 2003
Total posts: 5814
Posted:Beauty is in the organ of the beholder. When there is a market, it will try to be filled. I dont get beauty at the price of deformity. Extreme thiness in people, binding of feet, wearing of uncomfortable high heels, ties and dog breeds with selection for traits that are in my head a deformity.
I like mutts by choice,you and Oly have met (and licked each other) in my experience they are more robust which suits my lifestyle and I also like dogs to be part of the pack that is our family.
But I can see the attraction of a known breed, with known parentage and nature.


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:I personally love Mastiffs, I've had two, my second one is definitely going soon. Her eye is getting enormous, and apparently she was having trouble balancing last night. Which means the tumor got to her brain, or she was just really tired after her long walk. Part of me wants to put her down in fear that her eye will pop out of her head which is very possible, it happened to someone my mom works with just a little while ago. But she is still happy, which I think would make it kind of cruel to kill an animal that is still happy. She was 200lbs when she was healthy, then she got sick and lost 60lbs and gained I think 20 back. And she is currently 12.5 years old. She is censored ancient! I was told that dogs live a lot longer if you keep them happy, which makes me feel very good knowing how happy she's been.

As for breeding, the big dogs tend to have really bad hip problems. And a lot also have heart problems. And my girlfriend got a dog from a breeder and it is literally retarded because of all the inbreeding they do.


The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Midkiff
shadow stranger
Location: Carmi, Illinois
Member Since: 29th Nov 2009
Total posts: 462
Posted:i want to make a new breed of dog with bull mastiffs great danes boxers and pit bulls smile they would be enormous guard dogs

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:If you want enormous, try Irish, censored I can't remember, Irish something-hound.

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:I don't think it's so simple and straightforward as that. Dog breeding isn't always about how pretty the dog looks for shows. There is also a large element of behaviour and temperament and things like that.

Inbreeding and the like causes issues, but that's an example of when breeding is done incorrectly and irresponsibly. I think it's sad when people who do things responsibly get taken down with those who do the wrong thing.

SoD - Irish Wolfhound.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:Thank you, that was bothering me, when I went to Germany I saw a dog that was as tall as the guy walking it. I was like HOLY censored WTF IS THAT! And when I got back I told my mom half expecting her to think I'm crazy and she's like, "Yeah, it was probably an Irish Wolfhound, they only live about 4 years or so, but they're huge." And oh my lord that thing was at least 5'6". All I could think was "Holy censored! Germany already has some huge wasps (which I found out later were just beetles) and ginormous mosquitoes, but dogs like THAT! WTF!" And yeah I saw some crazy things, or at least cray to me.

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Midkiff
shadow stranger
Location: Carmi, Illinois
Member Since: 29th Nov 2009
Total posts: 462
Posted:well all of the mentioned dogs are fairly well tempered except for some breeds of pit bull but wouldnt use those breeds i have took alot o thought into it the mastiffs are fairly intlligent as well as great danes (not so much though) and boxers are very playfull as well as pit bulls and all of said dogs are very loyal if handled correctly

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:Yeah, Daisy will listen to us no matter what. We've never had to use a leash, if there's another dog or a squirrel, we just say no and she won't. She can tell when we'r efeeling bad and she comes to comfort us. Other than her being very calm and not very playful, I couldn't possibly imagine a better dog and I don't feel like typing more descriptions why as I could go on and on.

I've been preparing for her death for around half a year now, and it's still hard to imagine life without her.


The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Midkiff
shadow stranger
Location: Carmi, Illinois
Member Since: 29th Nov 2009
Total posts: 462
Posted:and rouge dragon if i did make that breed of dog it would definately not be pretty it would be very very ugly in fact but lik i said in an earlier post i have put a lot of thought into it

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:I want to mix Irish Wolfhound, Mastiff, German Shepherd, Bernese Mountain Dog, and let's throw in a Chihuahua for kicks n' giggles smile

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:A chihuahua to kick? wink

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:Yeah, after all, it's not a dog if you can dropkick it over a fence wink

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Fugee
Fugee

Cooler than bubblegum!
Location: Dallas, Texas
Member Since: 26th Feb 2010
Total posts: 2501
Posted:Is it a dog if you can string it up and spin it in circles?

The popcorn extends life... The popcorn expands consciousness...

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WoodlandApple
WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia
Member Since: 1st Dec 2009
Total posts: 474
Posted:it is not classified as a dog if:

1. it bounces when it barks.
2. you can drop kick it over a fence.
3. its smaller than your poo.


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:#3 is totally the best criterium.

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Eera
old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay
Member Since: 29th May 2003
Total posts: 1107
Posted:Is there really an overpopulation problem with animals bred to breed standards? You don't see many pedigree, registered animals in shelters, it's mongrels that breed indisriminantly and the people who don't neuter them that are the cause of that.

Personally I show border collies for agility, I buy from particular breeders who have a track record in temperament and conformation, when you buy at 8 weeks so you can train them yourself it's very rare you'll pick a good working dog from a shelter or a litter from unknown parentage; though I have had dogs from rescue organisations in the past they weren't much cop at jumping but made good companions. My dogs are also free from storage disease and hip displasia by parentage, non-pedigree dogs you'd never know without having to DNA screen them ($$$$)


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:I think that future dogs that I get will be mixes or just plain muts to avoid a lot of these health problems that come about from all this breeding for certain qualities. I think they should make a breed bred for health personally.

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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triptrician
UFO Spotting
Location: Queensland
Member Since: 26th Feb 2010
Total posts: 350
Posted:Just remember...dogs are easier to train than children(but not as much fun to breed):p. So wrap up and head to your local rspca shelter and pick up a mut

would rather have a bottle-in-front-of-me than a frontal lobotomy

"The dangers of life are infinate and among them is safety"(geothe)

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Midkiff
shadow stranger
Location: Carmi, Illinois
Member Since: 29th Nov 2009
Total posts: 462
Posted:dogs bred for health are easy muts lol

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Only yesterday I had to go to Animal Rescue International for our pup and read some of the flyers on the wall... one reflected quite well what I think of (dog) breeding. Can't quote it word by word but it went something along the lines of:

(Dog) breeders exploit animals for their personal profit whilst there are so many stricken creatures out there, desperately looking for a place - therefore (dog) breeders are not welcomed here.

If you are looking for a dog or cat or any kind of pet - please opt for a non-pedigree animal. Not only their genetic "material" is more stable, not only their emotional state is more stable, but also you will help a creature that would otherwise find it harder to find a home.

Don't promote breeding and don't create demand.

my twocents


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Eera
old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay
Member Since: 29th May 2003
Total posts: 1107
Posted:There's a difference between dog breeders and puppy farms. The ones I deal with are people who breed litters when they're after a new dog for themselves and sell the others, they don't actually make a profit when you take into consideration all the vaccination, microchipping and so on. they're generally known as "hobby breeders". Reputable people will screen for genetic conditions, the national body for specific breeds will often publish lineages of affected animals so you can check the peigree of yours against known carrier lines too.

Puppies sold in pet shops are likely the result of uncontrolled breeding, as are most of the animals in shelters.

Get your animal from wherever but GET IT NEUTERED.


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:breeding often has two angles
1) looks -which I don't particularily like but can admit to liking a black dog with perky ears over a blonde with droopy ears
2) temperment -which I can understand

It seems to me that breeders can be good or bad, I think puppymills are probably more likely the cause of shelter overpopulation and the fact that some people just abandon their animals.

All that being said, i go with the mutts. Have found better temperments with them, less likely to get adopted next to a purebred, less health problems.

Gus has been my best friend for five years-he's probably eleven- and now I'm soon going to let him go to the proverbial farm where maybe he can actually catch those damn squirrels. When the time comes, I'll probably get another mutt who's about to be put down for no reason other than no room in the inn.


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:All of this talk about breeding and my dog is purebread Old English Mastiff, was 200lbs when she was healthy, and she is now 12.5 and 165lbs. How she is still alive is beyond me, she has had moments where we thought it was gonna be time to put her down, then she gets back up. No idea, at some point she must have made a deal with the devil tongue2

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418
Posted:My mutt lived to be 15.

hug

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Ringshadow
Ringshadow

journeyman
Location: SW Michigan, United States
Member Since: 31st Oct 2009
Total posts: 81
Posted:It's a two-sided thing.

Respectful home breeders, who have maybe two litters a year and who are working with rare dog breeds, can probably be respected. When you have a dog breed with a low population, such as most giant breeds, such a situation is pretty much the only thing that props the breed up. My family has purebred mastiffs. That being said, we plan on going through a breed-specific rescue in the future.

I have no problem with paced, respectful breeding. I have problems with puppy mills. That's just screwed up.

Really the larger problem is owners who don't spay or neuter for whatever reason. Yeah puppy mills make the situation worse, but you MUST spay or neuter your pet or you are making a bad situation so much worse.

Oh, by the way: Don't give the Amish any money. The Amish's religious beliefs let them puppy mill and it's MUCH harder to bust them for it. Not only that, they tend to just shoot the entire "production line" of dogs if they think they're about to get in trouble. There are rescues running just trying to recover dogs from the Amish.

FWIW, of our two elderly Mastiffs, one was a rescue, my cat is a retired barn cat, and my guinea pigs came from a small animal rescue. And our corgi was dumped on the street.


Happiness is a skill, not a commodity
I have been kidnapped by hooping.

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:How can someone's religious beliefs be what's behind puppy mills? Or do you mean that it's because of the religion that they're not scrutinised?

Yay for mastiffs!! I'd absolutely love one!


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Ringshadow
Ringshadow

journeyman
Location: SW Michigan, United States
Member Since: 31st Oct 2009
Total posts: 81
Posted:Rouge Dragon: I guess the Amish view animals as property and thus have no problem breeding dogs into the ground and shooting them if they don't want them anymore. As said, in a few states it's a fairly sizable problem, if you google around you'll find stories about it. Terrible stuff.

As for mastiffs, they're not easy to find but all the breeders I've meet have seemed pretty decent. They're amazingly easy dogs to handle, too. If you get one and you do go to a breeder, make sure you see the parents and the bloodline. They can have hip problems and stuff.


Happiness is a skill, not a commodity
I have been kidnapped by hooping.

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Grottbags
Grottbags

Just Say Neigh
Location: Pie Town
Member Since: 14th Apr 2010
Total posts: 36
Posted:Originally Posted By: SpinnerofDetroitI think that future dogs that I get will be mixes or just plain muts to avoid a lot of these health problems that come about from all this breeding for certain qualities. I think they should make a breed bred for health personally.

That is generally the best way to be honest, you get to a point where you have to discount owning lots of dogs on the basis of the breed predilictions. Unfortunately the Kennel Club have very little influence over breed standards, they have tried to improve some traits by introducing the Hip and Elbow Scoring, but they only cover some of the problems. The worst affected dogs are the bulldog as the breed standards directly impact upon the health of the animal, such as bracycphalic disease, valgal deformation etc.


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