eca
member
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Member Since: 14th Mar 2010
Total posts: 197
Posted:This isn't the type of thing I'd normally post, but I've seen a few threads in which this community has offered great advice to those who needed it, so here I am.

Ok, so excuse me for being long-winded:

I am a gay man in love with a male-to-female pre-operative tranny. I've known her for four years and found her to be the most amazing person anyone could ever meet. We've expressed that we have strong feelings for each other, though we aren't dating. She's been going through hard times and I'm giving her her space. The problem is I really, deeply, love her, but I'm not sure she's ready to hear it...

I know that she is afraid of those three "little" words, and as such don't know how to tell her. She has been aloof and hard to get in contact with lately, and it's been driving me nuts. I went on a couple dates with another guy because I was feeling lonely and was unable to spend time with her (hadn't seen her in a month or so), and both times it crushed me emotionally. I really want to pursue a real relationship with her but she's really apprehensive due to the fact that she does plan to fully transition. She's concerned about what's going to happen to/between us if we're dating when she goes through SRS. I keep trying to tell her that it won't be an issue, that I'm no stranger to vaginal intercourse (her primary concern with the SRS), but she is still aprehensive.

I'm at wit's end with this, I either have to do/say something, or I never will and it's just going to eat away at me until I become bitter towards her.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks folks.


"Think of the pussy, Weevil."
"What's a pussy-weevil?"

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meshunderlay
meshunderlay

Juggler/Spinner
Location: Hicksville, New York, USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2008
Total posts: 612
Posted:How long until the operation?

That is.... though it may be hard for her to beleive now, maybe after the operation if you're still there for her, she'll be more open and trusting.

Truthfully, I think I understand where she is coming from. That is.... as a guy who identifies as gay, though I have been attracted to some females, they usually don't see a relationship as possible (though most probably in my case it's because I don't swing that way sexually). I'm going to stop myself there before I rant about relationships requiring intercourse or not....

I say stick with her if you feel that strongly, but don't pressure her. *shrug* But what do I know about anything?

Good luck.


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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418
Posted:I have no real input, but I read it and I feel your position... If that helps give you strength in any way, that someone is listening, then thats fantastic.

hug

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eca
member
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Member Since: 14th Mar 2010
Total posts: 197
Posted:The operation isn't even scheduled yet. She has yet to start the hormone therapy.

"Think of the pussy, Weevil."
"What's a pussy-weevil?"

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Fire_Moose
Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Member Since: 2nd May 2007
Total posts: 3597
Posted:if yer in love with her...doesn't that make you kinda straight?

O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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eca
member
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Member Since: 14th Mar 2010
Total posts: 197
Posted:Poje: Good question, and a hard one to answer.

I'm going to try and do so without being super long-winded and without going too deeply into gender, gender roles, and gender identity. If you want my thoughts on those, send me a PM I'd be more than happy to discuss them with you.

Being gay, I am physically attracted to men. Now, I personally, am usually attracted to masculine guys. In this situation though, it isn't any physical thing that attracts me to her. I find her incomprehensibly beautiful, but I've never wished to be with her for that reason.

I started developing feelings for her when we met four years ago, three months before I knew that she was physically male. The news didn't shock me, in fact, I think I was subconsciously aware of the fact the entire time. Even after learning that, and learning that she does plan to go through with the transition, I was still attracted to her.

It was her personality that attracted me. Everything about this girl screams amazing. I've never met a single person that knows and dislikes her. She has this light and energy about her that just lifts away darkness, depression, and fear.

She is also the only woman I've ever met who I feel should be treated as a lady. Now, I'm a chivalrous guy, but she's the only person I've ever gone completely out of my way to do chivalrous things for. If you were to see us in public, you'd think we were a straight couple. I do all sorts of chivalrous things you just don't see anymore, ie helping her down stairs, holding doors, pulling out chairs.

Now does the fact that I am in love with someone who will physically be female, that I already view and treat as a woman, make me kinda straight?

I honestly don't know.

meshunderlay: Thanks for the help, I still don't know what I should/am going to do, but it was nice to get an outside perspective. As for the relationship requiring intercourse thing, if you got onto a rant, I'd probably join you... Perhaps something for another thread?

MNS: It does help to know that someone is listening, this has been building for quite some time and I needed to get it off my chest. I don't want to discuss it with my friends because we both have the same group of friends and I don't want to put anyone in an awkward situation.


"Think of the pussy, Weevil."
"What's a pussy-weevil?"

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:Ok, I may be only in highschool, but I'm not one of those many homophobic one that make up 99% of my school's population. I just want to get that straight because people always think I am because of my age smirk

I would have to say from what this situation sounds like, this I think, would mean you're bisexual, to an extent at least. If she knows that, then maybe she'd trust you more to still love her after the operation. Because as most of us probably know from experience, someone that you're in love with that much, it doesn't really matter what physical changes that happen, you're still gonna be in love with them.

But I'm not entirely sure what the hormonal treatment will do to her. But, if it's something that changes the hormones she makes, than it's entirely possible that the feelings for her will go away. If that's not what the treatment does, then they will probably stay.

I hope I could be of some help


The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418
Posted:Well... we're addressing a few aspects here...

Theres:

Sex: The physical attributes that identify us as male or female. Currently eca's interest is in a male, he has the physical characteristics of being a male.

Gender: The attributes and identification with being either masculine or feminine. Eca's interest at current identifies with being female and she expresses feminine traits.

Sexuality(Lust): The sexual orientation we identify with that stipulates which sex or sexes we find sexually attractive.

Love: Our emotional response toward intimate companionship, to put it as simply as possible. The word 'Love' has many connotations within this society, and its an issue that I can't think of a word that means the same thing without these connotations. You can't love someone within the first few months of a relationship, but you can feel something that is beyond "like" but we don't have the words to properly express it. I will from hereout use "Love" and "love" to distinguish.





In todays day and age the issues of Sex, Gender and Sexuality are all a lot more openly discussed and in a lot of ways its opened up a lot of confusion. This confusion only highlights where people all over the world get things wrong... confusing Love and Lust and ending up in relationships we've later regretted and other such things.

Now, eca loves this lady, and this really has nothing to do with his sexuality, haven't all the cheesy movies and romantic plays of days gone by taught us that love transcends all boundaries?



But I digress... eca... have you tried telling her something along the lines of "I care enough to want to be involved"? "I care about you in a way that means I don't want to watch from the sidelines"? "You may not think I'm ready to say that I Love you, but I care... I Care"...


hug

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eca
member
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Member Since: 14th Mar 2010
Total posts: 197
Posted:MNS: That was quite the logically thought out post grin

Getting down to your question: We have both said things like, "I R hearts for you" and, "I love your face so hard there is a hole in the back of your head". lol. I know that there is a seriousness carried across when we say it, but it's so damn whimsical that I feel the emotion gets lost...

I'm going to try and take her out to dinner tonight (don't know her schedule), and I think I'll express (at the least) that I truly care about her, and wish to be with her. I'm probably going to look/sound like a fool (due to nerves), but I think just saying it to her will help ease my mind a lot.


"Think of the pussy, Weevil."
"What's a pussy-weevil?"

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Fire_Moose
Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Member Since: 2nd May 2007
Total posts: 3597
Posted:"Because as most of us probably know from experience, someone that you're in love with that much, it doesn't really matter what physical changes that happen, you're still gonna be in love with them."


Ha, like that question women ask, "If i lost my legs in an accident would you still love me?"

There is no way lady, you wouldn't even have legs!


O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:As long as you can still make me a sammich grin

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Jameth
Jameth

enthusiast
Location: NSW
Member Since: 19th May 2008
Total posts: 378
Posted:Originally Posted By: ecaI'm going to try and take her out to dinner tonight (don't know her schedule), and I think I'll express (at the least) that I truly care about her, and wish to be with her. I'm probably going to look/sound like a fool (due to nerves), but I think just saying it to her will help ease my mind a lot.

I hope that goes / went well.

Don't mind looking like a fool - in her position I'd recognise it for a sign of sincerity and find it endearing.


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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:Yeah, don't mind looking like a fool. It shows she's worth looking like a fool to you.

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:Originally Posted By: meshunderlay maybe after the operation if you're still there for her, she'll be more open and trusting.


From my experience with a mate of mine, one the process actually begins (hormones, op appointments, legal changes etc) then the person gets a LOT better. I notices a profound change in my friend once everything started happening.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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aston
aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2007
Total posts: 4061
Posted:Not much to offer, apart from :hugs: .

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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triptrician
UFO Spotting
Location: Queensland
Member Since: 26th Feb 2010
Total posts: 350
Posted:my sister recently came out and as she eloquently put it...you fall in love with a person and not a sex.

whilst labels (ie gay, straight, transgender) are neccessary to identify groups etc they are not helpful in this case and they seem to hinder the relationship. Let your actions speak louder than your words(and if you are being chivalrous your screaming at her I LOVE YOU) and maybe just remind her of the fact that you love her and not her body

peace be the journey good man
trip


would rather have a bottle-in-front-of-me than a frontal lobotomy

"The dangers of life are infinate and among them is safety"(geothe)

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Mel Mepham
Mel Mepham

journeyman
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Member Since: 3rd Apr 2010
Total posts: 50
Posted:i watched this program last night on trans-gendered teens and at one stage they were talking about the chemistry behind someones gender in their brain, they did tests and stuff on trans-gendered peoples brains after they had died, and the part of the brain that deals with gender, in trans-gendered people are shown to be similar to their gender choice, not their genetic make up which i found really interesting, it would be really interesting to run a survey and ask the participants to rate (on a 1-10 scale lets say 1 being female and 10 being male) where they feel they fit on that scale, then to look at their sexual preferences and see the results that are found, my hypothesis would be, there would be a very little amount of people that would characterize themselves at each ends of the scale, and similar with their sexual preferences, gender is a label that is forced upon us at birth, and my understanding is it shouldn't be of consequence, can we not all be equal? can we not all choose our own paths? be ourselves instead of growing up in the shoes society puts us in.. unfortunately capitalism is fueled by these labels and boxes the world puts us in..
i am sorry for the rant, it doesn't have much to do with your question but yea ultimately the motto is censored the system, you cant choose who you fall in love with and you cant choose who falls in love with you but as soon as you fall in love don't waste it. embrace it, make her see that nothing else matters but the fact that you want to be with her, to care, love and support her.


Snish

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eca
member
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Member Since: 14th Mar 2010
Total posts: 197
Posted:You've all given me great advice and a great deal of strength. Thank you very much. They got something right when they named this place Home of Poi. I don't really know any of you very well at all, but I feel you are all family.

I've decided I need to tell her how I feel. I may avoid actually saying 'love', but I will for sure tell her how much I care. Now it's just a matter of getting together with her (she can be hard to reach) and letting my heart speak.

At this point, I'm ok with her and I not being together, so long as she will listen to what I have to say.

We are very alike and I know that she often feels unloved and alone, if I can make just one of those feelings go away, I'll be happy for having helped to make her happy.

Once again, thank you all for your help! I truly am grateful.


"Think of the pussy, Weevil."
"What's a pussy-weevil?"

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eca
member
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Member Since: 14th Mar 2010
Total posts: 197
Posted:Also, if people would like to turn this thread into either a) a running advice thread for anyone who needs it, or b) a discussion on sex vs. gender, feel free.

"Think of the pussy, Weevil."
"What's a pussy-weevil?"

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meshunderlay
meshunderlay

Juggler/Spinner
Location: Hicksville, New York, USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2008
Total posts: 612
Posted:^_^ One small comment then. I am a male, sex and gender (who identifies as gay), and the only persons I ever fall for are gender male also. Much to my chagrin they are usually either lesbians or straight men.

I have no problem trying out a relationship with them, but due to minor problems, usually stemming from physicality, it never works out.

Long story short, I juggle and etc in order to keep my mind off of things like that and just make friends where I can.


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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418
Posted:Mel, by suggesting that people could list from 1-10 how male or how female they feel is inadvertantly supporting the very gender stereotypes that you stated you despised being thrust upon us at birth.

I often relate to females a lot better than I do males because of the way I express how I feel, males usually don't understand the kinds of emotions I'll talk about because among a lot of Australian men, admitting flaw is a taboo!

Does this make me more female? Or is this just a telling sign of how strong these gender stereotypes are? Does it show more about my masculinity/femininity or more about my individuality/conformity? Do our characteristics on the whole need to be pinned down to a gender?

I am male, I identify as male, I am straight, if anyone wants to read anything into that. tongue2


hug

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:on reconsideration - my 2 cents:

for me it doesn't matter which sexual orientation/ preference you hold/ pursue... an emotional relationship is between two people - gender aside.

You fell in love with somebody.

Andrea once put it this way: "Love is a facilitator for growth" - and I side her on that one.

IMHO "fighting for a (romantic) relationship" is like "bombing for peace" and the only advice I can possibly offer is:

- express your feelings
- let go as much as possible
- be there when required.

The Dalai Lama once put it this way: "Not getting what you want could actually turn out to be a strike of luck."

That feeling you have inside of you is your feeling. The other person involved usually is 'nothing more' than the screen on which your movie is projected on. This other person helps you to get access to something wonderful, but "love" is a state of being - not an emotion. The idea that there is only one person - out of 6 billion - in the world that can make you happy, is an illusion and this will certainly reveal itself (more or less painfully).

Try to offer your friendship and love, regardless of sexuality or a romantic relationship. If you succeed at this stage, tell me how wink Try to make your love an invitation - not an intrusion into the other persons life.

The worst (I experienced so far) is to fall in love with someone who doesn't love you back and get them to join you in a relationship. Basically what is happening is that either you or that person you're with is trying to brake up from day one - is just looking for the way out.

If it is not coming your way by itself, then there might be a good reason for it and you're about to jeopardize a potentially great friendship for the sake of a lukewarm and timely limited relationship.

And to round it up: "You can't make anybody love you. What you can do is to let yourself be heart "

I wish you best of luck with this - I'm certain love will find the right way (to express itself).... smile

Yet I'm not trying to talk you out of anything and there still is the possibility that all what I've been writing does not apply to the two of you.

hug hug

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1270713192)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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eca
member
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Member Since: 14th Mar 2010
Total posts: 197
Posted:Originally Posted By: meshunderlay^_^ One small comment then. I am a male, sex and gender (who identifies as gay), and the only persons I ever fall for are gender male also. Much to my chagrin they are usually either lesbians or straight men.

meshunderlay: I used to have that "problem" as well. It's still not unusual for me to ber-crush on a straight guy... It can be annoying. I'm sure it's made you a better juggler though!


"Think of the pussy, Weevil."
"What's a pussy-weevil?"

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Fugee
Fugee

Cooler than bubblegum!
Location: Dallas, Texas
Member Since: 26th Feb 2010
Total posts: 2501
Posted:Group hug?

The popcorn extends life... The popcorn expands consciousness...

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meshunderlay
meshunderlay

Juggler/Spinner
Location: Hicksville, New York, USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2008
Total posts: 612
Posted:Yay! Group hug!

Anyone wanna pass? =P ^_^


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Jameth
Jameth

enthusiast
Location: NSW
Member Since: 19th May 2008
Total posts: 378
Posted:Not I.


Non-Https Image Link


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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418
Posted:^_^ I'm not fussed.

That emote is AMAZING, Jameth! I LOVE it!


hug

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