Midnyte
Midnytestranger
9 posts
Location: Nara, Japan


Posted:
Ello all, I just started spinning about a week ago and love it, but I can't get same time hip reels down. I've got the 3 beat weave, butterfly, buzzsaw, and reel turns down. I can also sort of do split time reels(I say sort of because my planes go all wonky), but I can't for the life of me figgure out how to do them same time.
I keep watching videos, but it isn't clicking. If anyone has any pointers or advice on how to get these down it would be much appreciated.

Und die Vgel singen nicht mehr.


DyamiTK
DyamiTKGOLD Member
beginner forever
159 posts
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca, USA


Posted:
what sort of reel turns do you do, if you say you can't do same time hip reels?

Text descriptions usually are second to videos but I'll do my best. First let's assume that you want to end up doing your same time hip reels in the wall plane.

Start by spinning both Poi forwards same-time in your side plane for a few beats. Then turn around so that your Poi are now spinning backwards same time (Remember that the Poi do not change direction relative to their position in space, it is only you that has turned around. If someone had to be watching you do this from down stage the Poi would keep doing the same thing regardless of which way you are facing. Some people get confused by that).

Turn back the same way you came from to end up again in forwards. Repeat process until comfortable.

Next do this by only turning your upper body to your right and left and leaving your feet planted. You want your Poi to always stay on opposite sides of your body. Repeat until comfortable.

Next do this by only bringing your Poi in front of and behind you, leaving your body stationary. When you bring your Poi to your back side wall plane it is easier if turn your elbow outwards. Repeat until comfortable.

Next do this by crossing your Poi from front to back every beat.

good yes?

Next is to repeat that whole process in the other direction, so say if you where spinning forwards on your right side, change it so that you are spinning forwards on your left and backwards on your right.

Next is, on the up swing of your Poi (what ever side that is) bring your Poi up to your shoulders and repeat the whole process.

cheers

Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
I found butterfly hip reels easier to nail than same direction hip reels... so perhaps getting some butterfly reels cracking would be a nice step til you've developed control in that area.

hug


Midnyte
Midnytestranger
9 posts
Location: Nara, Japan


Posted:
@dyami: Thanx for the advice, but when you say turn with the upper body, do you mean 180 like a normal turn ro just 90 degrees?
As far as my turns go, turning from forward to reverse, i lock mu hands at the hips and pivot, and to get back to forward, i use the "windshield wiper" looking turn

@mns: Thanx, I'll look into those. I still have a hell of a lot to learn.

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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
Originally Posted By: MidnyteAs far as my turns go, turning from forward to reverse, i lock mu hands at the hips and pivot, and to get back to forward, i use the "windshield wiper" looking turn

If I understand you correctly... you're doing hip reels if you continuously do that... and face in a WALL plane rather than a WHEEL.

smile

hug


Midnyte
Midnytestranger
9 posts
Location: Nara, Japan


Posted:
Ok, I think I'm getting it, I tried your suggestion Nature and it seems to be working. I think my biggest problem is a sever lack of coordination in my left hand. Thanks bunches for the tips guys =D

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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
Glad I could help, Midnyte, but I think thats what Dyami was trying to get you to do anyway.

Keep practicing, and don't stress if you get stuck on one thing... move onto something else and come back to it (But make sure you come back) Sometimes these things can just click as we gain control over the Poi in general, other things are completely different. (Like Isolations)

hug


Midnyte
Midnytestranger
9 posts
Location: Nara, Japan


Posted:
Oh yeah, one last question I forgot. So one Poi is always going to be in front of you and one will always be behind, correct? They will never be on the same side at the same time aye?

Sorry for being such a noob confused2
EDITED_BY: Midnyte (1239422110)

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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
Should be on the same side... But there was a whole lot of stuff in that that really confused me when I was learning and I've not revisited it...

I had the idea that when you did BF hip reels that you could have one in front one behind in even time and then the same in split time... And I'm still reasonably sure this is the case... but I've not really bothered because I can do it, I just can't get my head quite around it for some reason.

I don't quite have time to play and work it out now, though... good luck, Midnyte!


might help... Nathaniels tutorials are usually not too bad.

hug


Midnyte
Midnytestranger
9 posts
Location: Nara, Japan


Posted:
Yeah, I've been watching that one though the red Poi red shirt makes it a bit hard to see sometimes lol. I think I'm starting to get it. Thanks again =)

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DyamiTK
DyamiTKGOLD Member
beginner forever
159 posts
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca, USA


Posted:
I haven't watched Nathanial's video there so I apologize if i repeat.

My definition of a reel is, a two beat move where the Poi are always on different sides of the body. They can be done in any direction, timing, or plane. Wall pane is what people most commonly call reels but corkscrew (horizontal) can be done as a reel as well, the two beat "windmill" is a reel above the head, "crosser" are reels, "meltdowns" are technically reels, reels can be done in the side plane and have an interesting effect.

In a basic two beat body cross (which reels are based on), Poi go through the same bent figure eight motion regardless of what plane it is done in. The arms however have to bend in different ways depending on what axis you are crossing. I recommend spending anywhere from a few weeks figuring our how many different ways your hands move, including how your elbows and wrists rotate.

When I say turn with the upper body I mean turn a full 180 degrees from side to side with only the upper body, which includes your arms.
Those steps I gave in my first post are of course just recommended guidelines and you don't have to go through each of them if you don't need to. The point of those steps is that they go through each fundamental step (that I've thought of so far) leading up to the two beat wall plane hip reels. I used the same basic process when I was first learning crossers and so I like it.

Don't apologize for being a "newb." Thank you for asking questions. We are all beginners always and to believe otherwise is limiting.

Midnyte
Midnytestranger
9 posts
Location: Nara, Japan


Posted:
I think that they're starting to come, I am doing them with one Poi in front and one in back. I've given up on the over zealous "I must get this move before I learn another" attitude and instead am just working them into my normal practice routine. They still hurt my brain though crazy Weaves are much easier for me for some odd reason.

About the noob thing, I just feel that I'm asking really stupid questions, but hey, if we don't ask questions we don't improve aye?
Thank you guys for the help, I'm sure that with much practice it will eventually come.

Und die Vgel singen nicht mehr.


DyamiTK
DyamiTKGOLD Member
beginner forever
159 posts
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca, USA


Posted:

Exactly! we don't grow as well if we don't ask questions. Einstein was all about the most important thing being to never stop questioning. He indirectly made it possible for the The fission bomb to be created as a result but he also did a lot of really beautiful things.
Another thing is, I really enjoy teaching. I believe that teaching is the natural extension of learning. These discussions give me opportunities to work out my own understanding of these concepts (which I then copy into my Poi theory of everything). So again, thank you for asking honest questions.

Yeah, I'm driving myself crazier right now trying to teach myself overhand butterfly air wraps with my left hand on bottom. I can do butterfly air wraps in the other three variations so far no problem but for some reason the coordination of this one is simply not with me yet. I pretty much always have at least two major new moves or variations I am trying to learn at any given time. It definitely helps to be willing to come back to them.
Baz I think it was told a story on Tribe about when he was trying to first learn behind the back weave. He said after struggling with it for a long time he eventually dropped it and went to practice other movement forms for a while including yoga and some other things. Much later when he again picked up the behind the back weave he was able to get it quickly because during his break, his coordination and flexibility had improved.

Moral of that story, giving problems time to fester on their own for a while is a good learning technique. The things we learn best are the things we are not taught and that we take a long time to figure out for ourselves. Second moral, EVERYTHING cross-pollinates. Every movement experience you have, whether it is with another prop or with only your body itself, will help with your overall skill in any given activity. I decided the other day that I am going to help myself learn fully isolated three beat weave by doing it with my staff.

Enjoy you journey to mastery friend. I'll meet you on the playafield.

Midnyte
Midnytestranger
9 posts
Location: Nara, Japan


Posted:
I GOT IT! laugh3 IT FINALLY CLICKED!

I was just working on TTN and the reverse 3bt weave when i just decided to give it another go. I think being partially zoned out thinking more about transitions and less about what I was doing at that moment helped, because when i looked up into the mirror, I was doing them without even trying XD

Thanx for the pointers and encouragement, and DynamiTK, I don't think I'll ever be a "master" but I'm not going to stop trying sunny Good luck on your new tricks.

Much love grouphug

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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
What is a master?

The aim of Poi as far as I'm concerned is enjoyment.

By that I was more a master a year ago than I am now even if my skills have eclipsed what they were then.

I think theres a few posts on my educational philosophy about Poi floating around... but essentially I try to teach approaches to learning rather than actual movements.


If I teach a movement its usually to display the interrelated nature of the movements and how you could extrapolate what you know in order to get there, breaking everything down to its base components.

But thats after you've got the basics, of course. smile

In relation to the basics that means that (as I said earlier in the thread) if you get stuck on something just move onto something else and proficiency will grow as you practice other things as you gain more general control and awareness over your planes and timings and where your Poi are at at any given time.

Heavier Poi REALLY help with the last part. My regular Poi are 150g and my heavy Poi are 200g

hug


Midnyte
Midnytestranger
9 posts
Location: Nara, Japan


Posted:
Hehe, I didn't mean I was trying to master it per se, just that I wasn't going to let a few hurdles stop me. I've been in Japan so long I'm forgetting my English eek I just meant that I'm going to keep trying to improve and grow.

I am doing Poi for the enjoyment as well, not to show anyone up. It's much more enjoyable for me than staff. Staff just feels so limited and rigid. Kind of like the difference between piano and bass, both are beautiful, but there are things you can do with strings that you can't do with keys.

At any rate it's really satisfying having something that you've been working on finally click. I'll be getting some new heavier Poi when I go to Tokyo this weekend. Kind of afraid of the nut shots with heavier ones though, tennis balls hurt as it is blush

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DyamiTK
DyamiTKGOLD Member
beginner forever
159 posts
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca, USA


Posted:
It is in here at 8:34 -



"Mastery is being able to think into your Poi. So the way I imagine that Beethoven could play the piano or the ultimate jazz master could play jazz, which is that there is nothing between your imagination and what manifest in the world. So that what you hear in you soul, what's in your imagination just comes into the world. Through your fingers, or through your body, or through your voice, or whatever it is. You've removed all the limitations, you've removed the motor skill limitations, you've removed the things that get in the way, and so when what you imagine just manifests, through you, I think that's mastery." - Nick Woolsey

Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
There will never be a Poi master on the face of this planet by that definition.

hug


aston
astonSILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa


Posted:
Yeah. But not a bad definition nonetheless....

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland


Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
For me its an aim. Mastery is achieving what you set out to do in the best way it can possibly be done.

Thats what mastery is to Nick as thats his aim. Its a wonderful aim it really is and thats one of my aims in Poi to some degree.

But I also seek to blow off stress with it and have a great time and when I really get into it I do. Sometimes I even laugh aloud because of how good some movements feel.

Thanks for prodding me on it, aston, sometimes I post too quickly and move onto something else, my post came out a little harsh.

My only irk with it is that its a goal out of line with that of the casual spinner and as such presents it as a more limiting idea of what spinning is. What it is to one person isn't what it is to anyone else.
EDITED_BY: Mother_Natures_Son (1240212395)

hug


aston
astonSILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa


Posted:
Well, with Poi there are so many ways to approach it that each person will have their own idea of what a Poi master is.

For some it is anyone with extremely good flow. For others it is technical skill. Other want both. Up to the individual really.

At least the way I see it. smile

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland


DyamiTK
DyamiTKGOLD Member
beginner forever
159 posts
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca, USA


Posted:
MNS, you and i seem to be really bad about tread jacking. I don't know of any way to move posts to a new more relevant thread though, so I will now continue the discussion here.

For me mastery is a relative term. A master is not a specific state of achievement and is is not something with can be self proclaimed. The title of master is a recognition given by that person's peers and students.
Quote:Taken from: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi#Jedi_ranks

"A Jedi Knight may become a Master after successfully training a Padawan learner to Knight status. Though this is the most common manner, it is not always the case. If the council sees that a Jedi Knight has become more powerful and has gained more knowledge and discipline in the Force, then they can be nominated by one or more council members to take the trials again."
There are definitely Different Types Of Poi artists all with different specialized interests. There are the people who do it as a meditation, as an exercise, or purely for the totally bliss that Poi seems to radiate. There are the people who are primarily interested in the technical movement of the Poi themselves. There are the people who focus more on the dance beneath the Poi. There are the people who's main purpose is using the Poi for performance. There are the more casuals spinners and there are the ones who are consciously on the never ending road to Poi mastery.

Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
Thread hijacking is inevitable, really. Oh well. I'm done with this one after this comment anyhow.

That definition comes from " an artist, performer, or player of consummate skill" Consummate means complete. ^_^

But where does THAT definition come from? It comes from this one.

"one that conquers or masters : victor, superior "

Once you have mastered (conquered) your own challenges of Poi then you are a master.
EDITED_BY: Mother_Natures_Son (1240276649)

hug



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