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Forums > Social Discussion > PoiGeek.com - Thoughts, opinions etc

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:www.poigeek.com

Quite surprised this hasn't been mentioned on here before - it's a fairly significant development in the world of poi spinning...

Quick summary, it's a pay-per-view instructional video website which aims to teach poi spinning on a move-by-move basis.
Currently only has a couple of moves up, but the basic premise is obvious.

I think it's a good idea in theory, I even had a similar idea at one stage. The key thing obviously is ensuring the content is substantially better than the huge amounts of free lessons scattered around the interweb to give value for money.

Would anyone here consider using it?
Is anyone massively against the idea?

My only mild gripe with the whole site is the naming of moves, which aren't anywhere near "HoP standard", nor "general spinning community standard". Which is fine on it's own - but can (and will) lead to confusion when a PoiGeek'er meets a regular spinner, but also could hinder progress e.g. "Archer Weave" is just a long-arm/short-arm weave, yet without this qualifier, there's no obvious indicator that LA/SA can be applied to 90% of all poi moves...
This is probably hypocritical, but names for moves should be logical smile


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:As far as I got it by now, the only thing I object is to promote names that fuel the Babylon and to promote tutors "having gained international recognition" by posting here on HoP... exactly 18 times umm

Apart from that your idea is okay - the audience will decide. I would get my eyes bleeding, to get tuition of my iPod (apart from violently disliking the faschist Apple and Microsoft empires)... if the vids aim for that part of the community... I'm wishing you best of luck.

What I personally think is sad, is that the community appears to be split (as OWD indicates)... are we falling into the same trap as all the other (mainstream) communities before us?

Personally I don't support splinter(cell)s anymore.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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NathanielEverist
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

NathanielEverist

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 315
Posted:Personally, I don't like PoiGeek or Glittergirl for the same reasons that've been listed previously. Outside of that, I'm against the commercialisation of poi. Paying for a performance or workshops is one thing, because you're paying to receive in the flesh teaching and for the development of a friendship or to watch fantastic twirling before your eyes. Regardless of this though, the poi community is so friendly by nature that you needn't really pay for these things, and a lot of the time it is more charitable by nature than commercial (from my experience).

To bring money into the realm of poi is to ultimately bring competition into it also. As soon as there's decent money to be made from such things, the human conditions of greed and selfishness come into play. By teaching for free you're increasing the competition for performances and workshops, and I personally am against aggressive competition within this community.

Nick Woolsey, one of my idols, gives poi tutorials to an incredibly high quality for free on the internet, and yet, people still pay to go to his workshops and to see him perform, even though they probably could learn it for free. This is because, like I said, it is more charity than commerce. They feel that it is only right to give something back to Nick for what he's done, and he's given a lot.

PoiGeek seems counter-productive to what I see as a beautiful state of community already within existence, the pinnacle of which is HOP. That alongside the questionable methods of advertising and unnecessary re-naming of moves leaves a poor taste in my mouth.

Icon, I can tell you've poured a lot of time into this, and you are one of my favourite twirlers, I mean you no offense, I'm just trying to express my opinion on the matter.

There's more thoughts in my head on this issue, but this post is quite long as it is.


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=Flashpoint=
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

=Flashpoint=

Pasta of Muppets
Location: in the interwebs...

Total posts: 2719
Posted: Written by :bluecat


as for opinions on the site - well, its not how i would do it, but in general i think paying for work done is fine.




With Bluecat here.
I wouldn't pay for it, but anyone who wants to, can. Its just the same as DVD's, just in a different format.

Not really bad, just different smile


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NathanielEverist
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

NathanielEverist

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 315
Posted: Written by :feeb

i think that arrogance is what is going to damage your scene guys, we should be making poi and everything else OPEN to everyone, not just those who you think are techy/cool/good enough to 'be a poi-er'



This is where one of my issues lie with PoiGeek, poi should be available to everybody, and I'm against the commercialisation of poi, particularly education. PoiGeek isn't making poi available to everybody, it's making poi to those with enough money to spend.

Poi is such a simple concept, but it is so beautifully complex and diverse for what is essentially weights on the end of tethers. To make sock poi is incredibly cheap, and it has the potential to make so many people happy, like myself and everybody else on here. And through that, there is so much greater potential.

It is fun and healthy, I for one haven't bought a new video-game, console, computer upgrade or anything like that for ages thanks to poi and other object manipulation arts. This has further reaching implications that are immediately obvious. One is that it reduces greenhouse gases because there is a lowered dependence on electronic devices such as television and such for entertainment.

It has the potential to nullify the belief that the more money you have to more happy you'll be, a belief that is nailed into our brain through constant advertising and our capitalist economy. Needless to say, this is a very good thing, as it relieves stress over career aspirations, lowers needless consumption (again, to the benefit of the environment) and "enlightens" people to the fact that to be happy, the key components to happiness are health, relationships and in our cases, as simple a toy as socks with weights in the end. Happiness is a good thing, and the wider we make it available, to ALL people, not just those with money, the better the world will become.


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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Nathan,

Most of what you said is true except "PoiGeek isn't making poi available to everybody, it's making it available to those with enough money to spend."

The correct wording is "PoiGeek is making poi available to everyone who WANTS to spend the money."

As everyone has said, there are plenty of free resources for learning. PoiGeek is just not one of them. That doesn't make it bad. Pay if you want, go the free route if not.

Also...

"Happiness is a good thing, and the wider we make it available, to ALL people, not just those with money, the better the world will become."

Again, it's not about "having the money to spend" its about WANTING TO SPEND MONEY. If paying for lessons makes someone happy, they should be able to do so. In essence, PoiGeek makes poi available to a market which otherwise would not be exposed to it.


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Moka
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

Moka

is a medium/large scary man
Location: Victoria, Australia, Earth, Mi...

Total posts: 420
Posted:I can definately see where ur coming from Mike... alot of people out there only believe they're getting something of value if they're paying for it... If people want to spend their money... Let 'em...

My mate set up a massage service a while ago... He did it as cheap as he could and was offering VERY cheap massages... And he got very little business... At the advice of anotehr friend, someone who had been in the industry for a while, he TRIPLES his price for a standard 1hr massage... Within a month he was pretty much booked solid...

It's a sad state of affairs I know, but some people don't believe they're getting a "good" service unless they're paying for it...

Isn't it good we know better =P


Contact juggling was invented by dung beetles.

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by :NathanielEverist







Poi is such a simple concept, but it is so beautifully complex and diverse for what is essentially weights on the end of tethers. To make sock poi is incredibly cheap, and it has the potential to make so many people happy, like myself and everybody else on here. And through that, there is so much greater potential.



It is fun and healthy, I for one haven't bought a new video-game, console, computer upgrade or anything like that for ages thanks to poi and other object manipulation arts. This has further reaching implications that are immediately obvious. One is that it reduces greenhouse gases because there is a lowered dependence on electronic devices such as television and such for entertainment.



It has the potential to nullify the belief that the more money you have to more happy you'll be, a belief that is nailed into our brain through constant advertising and our capitalist economy.





I agree fully with all of that- poi, even more than most circus skills definitly fulfills those ideals of freedom and overcoming the beliefs that money is the most importnat thing in life.







 Written by :NathanielEverist



 Written by :feeb

i think that arrogance is what is going to damage your scene guys, we should be making poi and everything else OPEN to everyone, not just those who you think are techy/cool/good enough to 'be a poi-er'





This is where one of my issues lie with PoiGeek, poi should be available to everybody, and I'm against the commercialisation of poi, particularly education. PoiGeek isn't making poi available to everybody, it's making poi to those with enough money to spend.









However, PoiGeek is not trying to commercialise poi, they're simply trying to make a living from teaching it- which, IMO, they are totally entitled to do.



As poi is so free and has such a strong infrastructure of community based on free teaching, it will never be commercialised- those free options will always remain.



If we are happy that poi really does have that basis of freedom, then we should not be concerned with some people trying to make a living from it.



This reminds me of the, IMO, unecessary personal nastiness directed towards Jason Garfield and his attempts to develop a sports option for juggling- so many jugglers have taken this as an attempt to convert all juggling to sport, which it isn't and can't be.



If we're really convinced and secure in our view of poi, we won't be concerned that it can be commercialised.



To me, this is about options- remember that, if a person lives in an area where they can learn poi for free in a park with a group of hippies, that may be involve being around a group where drug use is normal and, who may, beneath a surface of 'fluffiness' and acceptance, actually have their own deep prejudices against those who, for example, wear suits or those who take a love of poi and try to make a living from it.



Some people just don't feel comfortable in those types of group, they may instead, prefer to pay to receive tuition online, or pay for private lessons.



If that's what they prefer, then, IMO, fair enough.



And, let's bear in mind that making a living from poi is not an easy thing.



Nick, who's been held up as the ideal of free tuition on this thread, can testify to this- in years gone by he tried to run his poi studio as a viable commercial enterprise and found out just how hard it is to do so.



Finally, let's not forget the fact, as evidened on multiple other threads, that, in some circumstances, those offering poi tuition/performance for free, affect the business of those struggling to make an honest living from it- these things cut both ways.



So, to me, for anyone determined/foolish enough to try to make an honest living from poi, I say 'wish them well'- you don't have to support them, but, there's no reason to put them down either.



At the end of the day, if poi is truly for everyone, then that includes-



1. people who prefer to pay for tuition

2. those who love poi so much that they want to make a living from it


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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NathanielEverist
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

NathanielEverist

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 315
Posted:Mike, Moka and OneWheelDave, thanks for the comments, very interesting stuff, I guess I never stopped and thought that people might WANT to spend money on tuition. I guess I am guilty of only seeing the world through my eyes, as I am a relatively poor person, and I wouldn't want to spend money on learning.

If people want to spend money on it, I fully accept that, and if other people want to make a living off of poi, I wish them all the best. I would love to make a living off of poi, but I've kinda accepted that that's not going to happen anytime soon, and I've been having some inner struggles about teaching it so freely for free.

I guess I saw it as the most altruistic of things to make tutorials on every move available and put them on youtube, which I've been doing, as it would help people learn for free, but I've often wondered if this is such a good idea. It will after all increase the competition for performances, and will ultimately make it much harder for not only myself, but other people who love this art to make any money out of it. The arguments I used above was my angelic side telling me to be kind, and karma will pay me back in turn, but every now and then, my survival side tells me that teaching for free isn't going to put food on the table, or petrol in my car. frown

So, if this is going too far off topic let me know and I'll start a new thread or something, should I continue spreading the knowledge so freely? Or should I withhold or charge for the knowledge so as to make it more valuable and maybe give myself and other people who would like to make a living out a poi a chance to do so...

P.S. I know what you mean about prejudiced hippies OneWheelDave, many of them are just as vulnerable to negative judgment of others as anybody else, if not more so because they often allude to possess moral superiority. I happen to love wearing smart, businessy clothing, and some hippies deep down are very condemning of people who aren't like them.


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NathanielEverist
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

NathanielEverist

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 315
Posted:May I just add, that I just watched some of the poigeek trailers/teasers on youtube, two of the tags are "free" and "lessons" on all of them, is it just me? Or is this just outright lying? If it's not lying, it's kinda stupid as youtube is a free site.

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