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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:I just got aware of this...

No matter what the outcome of the trial - in which 2 employees of PETA are charged with cruelty against animals in 31 cases - whether or not they are found guilty...

In my understanding these quotes and facts hurt the reputation of PETA much more:

 Written by: CourtTV

Critics have charged that many of the group's loyal supporters will be shocked when details of PETA's euthanasia policy emerge. The Virginian-Pilot reported that the group euthanized more than 6,000 animals between 2001 and 2003, about 83 percent of those it collected.
*
Officials with the group maintain that while Hinkle and Cook may have exercised poor discretion in dumping the animals behind the supermarket, they and other employees who did similar work were acting humanely when they euthanized animals removed from shelters.
*
Those who say otherwise, PETA claims, are not realistic about the future of the estimated 6 to 8 million dogs and cats left at U.S. shelters annually.
*
Statistics compiled by the national Humane Society indicate that only about half of the strays will be adopted. The rest will be put to death. PETA insists that in the case of the "unadoptable" the old, sick, antisocial or not housebroken it is more compassionate to euthanize them immediately than to let them live in shelters, where they may be mistreated.
*
"Critics may condemn PETA for supporting euthanasia, but we are not ashamed of providing a merciful exit from an uncaring world to broken beings," Daphna Nachminovitch, PETA's director of domestic animal issues, wrote in an editorial in the San Francisco Chronicle shortly after the arrests.



umm

I don't quite understand why the spot is just on the two workers that got caught, rather than the organisation they worked for and how much it's policies diverge from the slogans.

For my part I think it's not time to generally attack Animals Rights Groups, but to question if PETA itself is suitable to represent Animal Rights Activists.

This website has dedicated itself to provide news about PETA, tainted with populist wordings. It's organized by the Center for Consumer Freedom in the US, which itself is facing criticism.

Bit confusing ubbloco But bottom line is, how can PETA declare to fight for animals rights and at the same time kill them? The killings include puppies, so no severe ill or antisocial animals that would *need* to receive euthanasia...

The verdict in the above trial should already be reached, the public opinion is yet to be formed...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...

Total posts: 13215
Posted:But what about the puppies that they're unable to feed? Surely being put to death is better than starving?

And before anyone jumps on me, my dog got put down when I was 14.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Hmmm, euthanasing an animal isn't implicitly tied to cruelty to animals.



In the UK, the RSPCA neuter/spay evey animal they get given - people could probably argue this was "cruel" as well, but for both of these organisations, they're fighting the causes as well as the symptoms...



Shelters on the whole can be pretty traumatic for the animals, and over-crowding worsens the situation. Without a euthansia policy, the situation would rapidly decline, which personally I feel is more cruel.

They also have to be realistic in the fact of which animals and how many are likely to be re-homed, or make full recoveries, especially given the limited number oh shelter spaces available.



It's not even like they brutally killed them, they were put down with an injection which by all accounts is a very un-traumatic way to go.



I don't really see a viable alternative.



They only thing that is wrong was dumping the bodies there...


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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
Posted:The only upsetting things about this is that they shrug it off as "poor discretion", when I am reasonably sure that, had someone else done that, they'd be all over them in quite flaming tones. And that I assume (but here I'm guessing) that PETA do indeed not make it clear enough that this is part of their work, for fear of scaring off sponsors or new members. But then what do you expect.

"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

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la_genie
BRONZE Member since Jan 2008

la_genie

member
Location: , USA

Total posts: 73
Posted:Personaly, I think the problem is that PETA is so high and mighty on the ethical treatment of animals that they lied about having to put down the animals. It is a very real problem, and many of the unwanted dogs and cats have to be put down. Now before anyone gets on me for saying the truth, i have for YEARS been part of a rescue program for dogs, the last one i adopted only had 3 legs and many health problems and i had her for 5 years. The fact remains that some of the dogs have get put down, but dot lie about it and dont tell me i am a bad person for putting a sick dog down when you are doing the same thing. IMHO..... welcome back to the real world PETA...

Be aware, the evil flowers may eat your toes....
Have no friends not equal to yourself...
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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Exactly my thinking: If an organisation that puts itself on the top shelf to fight for animal rights and the ethical treatment of animals, then goes to collect animals from shelters, telling the staff that they will "definitely" find homes for these animals, then goes ahead and kills these animals (amongst them puppies)... isn't this hypocritical.

Usually you can find homes for puppies and if you can't feed them, why would you collect them?

PETA is receiving a lot of money from donors. IF they regard their practice as "ethical", why did they not disclose to the public, how many animals they kill each year? (errm, wrong wording - it should read "put down", errm "lay to rest" errm "put to (eternal) sleep", errm... *coughs*)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...

Total posts: 13215
Posted:PETA don't run the animal shelters?

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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PinkNigel


PinkNigel

Pinker than thou
Location: A little pink world all my own...

Total posts: 336
Posted: Written by: FireTom



Usually you can find homes for puppies



Er, no you can't, and that's exactly why so many get put down. It's an unfortunate but absolute truth of the animal shelter "business", stemming from the fact that so few people are responsible pet owners. Unless you are intentionally breeding animals, having them speyed/neutered is pretty much the only responsible thing you can do (other than keeping them indoors ALL the time). They are animals, they will go out ****ing, there will be baby animals as a result of that. Simple biology, and litters of kittens/puppies are quite sizable really...


A wise man once said: "You have two ears and one mouth, therefore you should shut the censored up and listen" (though, to be fair, he might not've put it _quite_ like that..)

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Also - whether nice or not, it's just basic PR.
"Hello ma'am, thanks for bringing us your dog - truth is we're probably going to kill it as we're massively over-crowded and you're dog is one of 1000s we've already picked up this week"

Who's that helping?
The animal would either stay in the shelter having a pretty crap life, or be left on the streets/with an un-loving owner, again for a pretty crap life.


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hamamelis
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls., Engla...

Total posts: 756
Posted: Written by: PinkNigel


 Written by: FireTom



Usually you can find homes for puppies



Er, no you can't, and that's exactly why so many get put down. It's an unfortunate but absolute truth of the animal shelter "business", stemming from the fact that so few people are responsible pet owners. Unless you are intentionally breeding animals, having them speyed/neutered is pretty much the only responsible thing you can do (other than keeping them indoors ALL the time). They are animals, they will go out ****ing, there will be baby animals as a result of that. Simple biology, and litters of kittens/puppies are quite sizable really...



I only did work a few weeks in an animal shelter, but they reckoned there that puppies were 'really easy' to rehome, at least locally.
In fact, one of the dogs had come in pregnant, just a few weeks before I got there, and they'd already found homes for up to 8 potential puppies..

It's not always easy to find homes, but compared to your average adult dog up for rehoming, it's normally way easier.


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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Yeah I saw this from where it was posted in the diet/relationship thread.

I'd like to say it's surprising or shocking but it isn't.
The long time vice-president of PETA for years spoke openly and vehemently against animal testing, yet the drug she took for her diabetes was one tested on animals, very publically so.

This is also the group who put a nearly naked woman, wearin nothing but panties and tiger striped body paint, in a cage to "prove a point", outside of a circus who is well known for it's rehab and animal protection policies, in 40F temps and had to call 911 to have her taken to be treated for hypothermia.

I remember stories from PETA in other countries as well.

They are an organization of contradictions and falsehoods. They are a nfp, but a business that thrives on propoganda.
Welcome to every major business in the world, why should they play any different?

However, PETA is also smart and knows how to distance itself from it's employees actions. Yes they have a euthenasia policies, but the "dumping" is what was technically the illegal part. So, now PETA plays dumb and the schlepps take the rap.
Won't be the first time, I'm sure it won't be the last.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:Don't forget all about their 'unofficial' ties to ALF and all the other animal liberation domestic terrorist groups.

Penn & Teller did a show on PETA on showtime..


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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...

Total posts: 13215
Posted:I have trouble trusting believing illusionists playing journalists...

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
Posted: Written by: hamamelis





.. puppies were 'really easy' to rehome,.... but compared to your average adult dog up for rehoming





Perhaps that's why there are so many adult dogs to rehouse... the *cute puppy* brigade turfing them out when they realise how much work/expense they are... or not having fencing to stop them running away.. or the neighbours complaining about neglected barkers etc.



I can see why PETA would prefer to kill animals relatively painlessly rather than have them caged and suffer though.

I have heard this is a dilemma faced by 'mainstream' animal welfare groups too, like the RSPCS here.. their workers come in animal lovey and find themselves running a sort of concentration camp in the 'kindest' way they can.



It's the sneakiness of this people in this PETA story that seems to be getting peoples backs up. Not being opent hat they do it, and particualrly using someone else's skip/dumpster to dispose of corpses. Sheesh, imagine if it wasn't picked up for a while... a skip full of rotting dog flesh behind someone's shop.

But people can be sneaky. I am sure that the people who dump animals in shelters are perfectly aware they will be killed, and are saving themselves the vet fees by passing the buck to someone else.


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:It's about the same as mythbusters playing scientists Faith. I've watched the PETA movies, I don't trust them as far as I can throw them. But to be fair you should hear both sides.

here is 1/3, caution may be nudity and/or adult language:



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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:have I ever mentioned my extreme love of Penn and Teller?
Seriously, they are one of the reasons I started performing, and after meeting them, mostly Teller, it pushed my drive into hyperdrive.
Really.

And that is a great, well researched segment albeit a few years olg (researched by actual journalists, Rougie, who are hired by P&T. You can even look it up.).


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:So Lurch, Penn and Teller are scientists, not illusionists.

I think I missed that bit.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Well, I for my part wouldn't go to places, make them hand me their animals and then kill them "because it's better to let them die merciful than to let them live in animal shelters".

To me that's just [censored]. Why does PETA take more animals than they can find places for? Is it that they can publicise "we have taken care of 10 million animals" not disclosing that they have been killing 7 million of them? [/random numbers]


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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poinoob
SILVER Member since Oct 2007

member
Location: louisianna, new orleans, USA

Total posts: 45
Posted:i hate peta they dont make a damn bit of sense. i have seen on the news that a married couple that were vegans and members of peta basic starved their kids because they didnt feed the baby a proper diet. a growing baby needs protiens and milk dammit. the parents both got like 10 years in prison. i say if u wanna eat an animal damn well use the whole thing which we do for cows and pigs. dont cut the fin off a shark and throw the rest back thats mean.

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:No stone, I didn't say that.. I said calling P&T Journalists is about the same as calling the Mythbusters scientists. There is too much hypocrisy within PETA for me to give them any sort of respect

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:wink

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...

Total posts: 13215
Posted:I don't believe Penn and Teller because the do the same things they accuse their interviewees of doing.

Eg:
"you can't believe their side, they interviewed a physicist about biology"
yet they'll then go interview a chemist about psychology.

I agree with a hell of a lot of what they say. But a little bit of critical thinking doesn't get them far.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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la_genie
BRONZE Member since Jan 2008

la_genie

member
Location: , USA

Total posts: 73
Posted:FREE THE ANIMALS VIVA LA REVOLUTION.... FREE THE CAROUSEL ANIMALS.... oh wait... sorry... i got carried away...

Be aware, the evil flowers may eat your toes....
Have no friends not equal to yourself...
Feed your mind, read a book

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Rouge, perhaps its just that some places have different standards on investigative journalism.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...

Total posts: 13215
Posted:I was more thinking that they're hypocrites, rather than exhibiting different standards.

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:True smile

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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