Forums > Technical Discussion > Hyperlight Update - 25-10-2007
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
Hyperlights are not yet ready. There, I've said it, so I hope the title of this thread didn't get anyone too excited. Things have been extremely busy for me of late with a combination of being ill (fear not; I'm back to my usual self now!) and commitments to work and the occasional bit of sleep. We've been busy though and here's where we're at:
The housing for the poi is just a couple of days away from completion so we should have prototypes back from that in about a week or so with a bit of luck.
The website is just about to change hosts so don't be surprised when it goes offline in the middle of next week. It should be back up again soon after at least in a limited form while we change things over.
The electronics is now complete and seems very stable; From our testing, it seems impossible to make them reset by smacking them together!
Plans for the business are under way which include getting funding to build the full-blown moulds. When we website comes back up and we've had a chance to fiddle with it, there really will be a form to sign up which leads me onto my next point.
We're planning to do a two-stage signup. The first is to gauge interest (although given the number of emails, PMs, phone calls i've had lately, there's no need to worry
) and won't require any money. Basically, you stick your email down and those people who sign up first get first dibs on stage two...
...which will happen when we're ready to put our money where our mouth is. The plan is to give those people who signed up first a week or two to get the cash for a pair of hyperlights to us. At the end of that period, we'll order the moulds and begin production!
The first batch will probably be around 250 pairs and we intend to ship them worldwide. So not quite the October deadline I'd set myself, but we're nearing the end of 3 years of development so quite exciting times!
Have fun
Jon
Hyperlights are not yet ready. There, I've said it, so I hope the title of this thread didn't get anyone too excited. Things have been extremely busy for me of late with a combination of being ill (fear not; I'm back to my usual self now!) and commitments to work and the occasional bit of sleep. We've been busy though and here's where we're at:
The housing for the poi is just a couple of days away from completion so we should have prototypes back from that in about a week or so with a bit of luck.
The website is just about to change hosts so don't be surprised when it goes offline in the middle of next week. It should be back up again soon after at least in a limited form while we change things over.
The electronics is now complete and seems very stable; From our testing, it seems impossible to make them reset by smacking them together!
Plans for the business are under way which include getting funding to build the full-blown moulds. When we website comes back up and we've had a chance to fiddle with it, there really will be a form to sign up which leads me onto my next point.
We're planning to do a two-stage signup. The first is to gauge interest (although given the number of emails, PMs, phone calls i've had lately, there's no need to worry
) and won't require any money. Basically, you stick your email down and those people who sign up first get first dibs on stage two......which will happen when we're ready to put our money where our mouth is. The plan is to give those people who signed up first a week or two to get the cash for a pair of hyperlights to us. At the end of that period, we'll order the moulds and begin production!
The first batch will probably be around 250 pairs and we intend to ship them worldwide. So not quite the October deadline I'd set myself, but we're nearing the end of 3 years of development so quite exciting times!
Have fun
Jon
Cake or Death?
SILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Posted:
Bloody hell, give jon a chance!!
Bloody hell, give jon a chance!!
Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
2,444 posts
Location: Bristol !!!!!!, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
2,444 posts
Location: Bristol !!!!!!, United Kingdom
Posted:
Well said Joey! 
Well said Joey! Gayle.....!
GOLD Member
addict
694 posts
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
addict
694 posts
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
Posted:
Whats word on the street? I heard we could have seen a form yesterday but not yet.
Will they be shipped with less of a wait than a while back, only i need them before mid december time.
cheers
alex
Whats word on the street? I heard we could have seen a form yesterday but not yet.
Will they be shipped with less of a wait than a while back, only i need them before mid december time.
cheers
alex
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
I've finished the form, it just needs a little work on the bit that processes it's output... and yes, it would've been up last night only I didn't get in from my day job until ~8pm. After a 12 hour day I couldn't quite face sitting in front of my computer
...and as for time scales, I honestly couldn't say. I'm trying desperately to get them ahead of christmas, but there's only one of me unfortunately I should hear back some time this week as to whether my housings are going to work (i.e. whether it's worth making a prototype or whether I need to tweak it some more).
Hope that's not too vague / depressing?
I've finished the form, it just needs a little work on the bit that processes it's output... and yes, it would've been up last night only I didn't get in from my day job until ~8pm. After a 12 hour day I couldn't quite face sitting in front of my computer
...and as for time scales, I honestly couldn't say. I'm trying desperately to get them ahead of christmas, but there's only one of me unfortunately
I should hear back some time this week as to whether my housings are going to work (i.e. whether it's worth making a prototype or whether I need to tweak it some more).Hope that's not too vague / depressing?
Cake or Death?
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
not to worry jon you've done great so far I know a few people who'll be after some next year so plenty of time good luck!
not to worry jon you've done great so far
I know a few people who'll be after some next year so plenty of time good luck! A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
GOLD Member
addict
694 posts
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
addict
694 posts
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
Posted:
thanks for the update. Only i was quite annoyed last night as virgin media came and replaced my set top box. Only to find that the net is now broken at home until next friday! (so couldnt get to the form anyway)
Good luck on the housings coming through as working
alex
thanks for the update. Only i was quite annoyed last night as virgin media came and replaced my set top box. Only to find that the net is now broken at home until next friday! (so couldnt get to the form anyway)
Good luck on the housings coming through as working
alex
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
Well I shouldn't worry; I'd be highly surprised if 250 people signed up over night.. and the first batch will be around that number so no need to panic too much
Well I shouldn't worry; I'd be highly surprised if 250 people signed up over night.. and the first batch will be around that number so no need to panic too much
Cake or Death?
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,895 posts
Location: Cambridge UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,895 posts
Location: Cambridge UK
Posted:
good going jon: Although I suspect you may be highly surprised
good going jon: Although I suspect you may be highly surprised Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant
Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.
'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi
GOLD Member
enthusiast
248 posts
Location: Ireland
enthusiast
248 posts
Location: Ireland
Posted:
agreed hell id be tempted to buy two sets
agreed
hell id be tempted to buy two sets GOLD Member
addict
694 posts
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
addict
694 posts
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
Posted:
I think people should be limted to one set. Whats to stop me buying 250 sets and ebaying them for £200 (apart from the fact i dont have £37,500 that is!!)
Written by: splinterific
agreed
I think people should be limted to one set. Whats to stop me buying 250 sets and ebaying them for £200 (apart from the fact i dont have £37,500 that is!!)
BRONZE Member
compfuzzled
1,182 posts
Location: hastings, England (UK)
compfuzzled
1,182 posts
Location: hastings, England (UK)
Posted:
the fact you'd get lynched by us all
Written by: Geeza
Whats to stop me buying 250 sets and ebaying them for £200
the fact you'd get lynched by us all
"the geeks have got you" - Gayle
GOLD Member
newbie
15 posts
Location: Victoria BC, Canada
newbie
15 posts
Location: Victoria BC, Canada
Posted:
I love how they look, I got a few questions about them, Technically oriented.
How do you program them? not meaning like how is it done, but rather, how are the boards inside the poi arranged? How do we know that they cannot shatter (I have seem some crazy things happen to polycarbonate) I am pretty rough on all my things, so I dont want to pay 150 quid for things that are gonna die on me.
How are the LED's arranged? Is it a Tri/ Primary colour set up in a ball with only 3 leds? or how do they change colors so evenly while keeping the light even?
Are they going to be water/dust/small-child-who-likes-to-steal-things and then forgets where he put them and you finds them in the basement-proof?
Sorry if I am asking too many questions. Its just 150 quid is alot of cash to hand out.
thanks
CBMS
I love how they look, I got a few questions about them, Technically oriented.
How do you program them? not meaning like how is it done, but rather, how are the boards inside the poi arranged? How do we know that they cannot shatter (I have seem some crazy things happen to polycarbonate) I am pretty rough on all my things, so I dont want to pay 150 quid for things that are gonna die on me.
How are the LED's arranged? Is it a Tri/ Primary colour set up in a ball with only 3 leds? or how do they change colors so evenly while keeping the light even?
Are they going to be water/dust/small-child-who-likes-to-steal-things and then forgets where he put them and you finds them in the basement-proof?
Sorry if I am asking too many questions. Its just 150 quid is alot of cash to hand out.
thanks
CBMS
And Shepherds We Shall Be..
"Is my hair on fire?"
Damn! My pants really are on fire!"
So the whole white gas thing on the campfire was a bad idea....
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
It's been a while since I've had some techy questions that aren't properly covered in the FAQ - lets try and answer them
There is a single board inside each hyperlight which has a USB connection on it. You plug that into your computer via a USB cable and then run a piece of software to upload your new sequences. Is that what you wanted to know?
Well first of all, polycarbonate is one of the most impact resistant plastics. The casings for Hyperlights will be made out of a 2/3mm polycarbonate shell which is the same sort of thickness that a lot of machine guards for heavy machinery are made from.
Just about every 'corner' inside and outside on the ball will be rounded which should help them be stronger and the internal structure of the balls have a sort of web of ribs arranged in triangles which will also increase their strength.
The socks that hyperlights come with will come with a layer of padding around the ball area which should cushion any impacts (and hopefully make playing with them a little more comfortable!).
What things have you seen break and what do you believe made them do that? I'm keen to learn from anyone else's mistakes, but I reckon the Hyperlights will be extremely tough! The electronics that drive them have undergone over a year of being bashed around in very crude housings and only one component ever broke (...and that component has now been replaced with a more resilient version).
I agree that £150 sounds expensive, but I genuinely believe that's extremely good value for money
All three LEDs are in a single package which then shines through a lens into the sock.. which is how I get such even light distribution.
The electronics will be given a water-proof coating before they're shipped to try and eliminate water damage, but the casings will have small (1 or 2mm wide) slots to allow hot air out of the balls. They won't be 100% waterproof, but unless you're submerging them while they're on, I think it's fairly unlikely you'd break them. Generally speaking, the socks will keep a lot of the dirt and rubbish out.
...does any of that help? Feel free to come back with any other questions
Regards,
Jon
It's been a while since I've had some techy questions that aren't properly covered in the FAQ - lets try and answer them
Written by: CBMS
How do you program them? not meaning like how is it done, but rather, how are the boards inside the poi arranged?
There is a single board inside each hyperlight which has a USB connection on it. You plug that into your computer via a USB cable and then run a piece of software to upload your new sequences. Is that what you wanted to know?
Written by: CBMS
How do we know that they cannot shatter (I have seen some crazy things happen to polycarbonate) I am pretty rough on all my things, so I dont want to pay 150 quid for things that are gonna die on me.
Well first of all, polycarbonate is one of the most impact resistant plastics. The casings for Hyperlights will be made out of a 2/3mm polycarbonate shell which is the same sort of thickness that a lot of machine guards for heavy machinery are made from.
Just about every 'corner' inside and outside on the ball will be rounded which should help them be stronger and the internal structure of the balls have a sort of web of ribs arranged in triangles which will also increase their strength.
The socks that hyperlights come with will come with a layer of padding around the ball area which should cushion any impacts (and hopefully make playing with them a little more comfortable!).
What things have you seen break and what do you believe made them do that? I'm keen to learn from anyone else's mistakes, but I reckon the Hyperlights will be extremely tough! The electronics that drive them have undergone over a year of being bashed around in very crude housings and only one component ever broke (...and that component has now been replaced with a more resilient version
).I agree that £150 sounds expensive, but I genuinely believe that's extremely good value for money
Written by: CBMS
How are the LED's arranged? Is it a Tri/ Primary colour set up in a ball with only 3 leds? or how do they change colors so evenly while keeping the light even?
All three LEDs are in a single package which then shines through a lens into the sock.. which is how I get such even light distribution.
Written by: CBMS
Are they going to be water / dust / small-child-who-likes-to-steal-things and then forgets where he put them and you finds them in the basement-proof?
The electronics will be given a water-proof coating before they're shipped to try and eliminate water damage, but the casings will have small (1 or 2mm wide) slots to allow hot air out of the balls. They won't be 100% waterproof, but unless you're submerging them while they're on, I think it's fairly unlikely you'd break them. Generally speaking, the socks will keep a lot of the dirt and rubbish out.
...does any of that help? Feel free to come back with any other questions
Regards,
Jon
Cake or Death?
GOLD Member
newbie
15 posts
Location: Victoria BC, Canada
newbie
15 posts
Location: Victoria BC, Canada
Posted:
As for the polycarbonate casings and the things that have caused them to become brittle.
I have a friend who is a car mechanic, and also a great inventor and chemist. (great on a small scale)
He has done some experiments on the "bullet proof" glass, which is polycarbonate (laminated glass). It weakens with UV light not to the point of shattering on impact on its own, but the radiation does cause it to become more brittle. Also, if a battery leaks, the acid will fog and damage the plastic.
Infact any acid (from citric to sulphuric) will damage the plastic to a degree.
I remember one experiment my friend did in which he had built an led flashlight. It leaked and fogged over, when he went to check on it it shattered in his hands. Now I dont know the width of the plastic, but it still occurred.
Another Question would be along the proofness of them.
How are you going to deal with an exposed usb plug? just a cap to go over them? what about the seams? (I assume that this is going to be a 2 piece pressed mould)
As an Idea how about making the interior of the sock waterproof around the ball.
Good call on the internal triangular supports. What diameter are the tubules going to be? and are they going to be flexible at all? or stiff as a board?
PS can i see the insides of them? like a ball cut in half. (I promise not to distribute the plans at all, Scouts honour)
Thanks
CBMS
As for the polycarbonate casings and the things that have caused them to become brittle.
I have a friend who is a car mechanic, and also a great inventor and chemist. (great on a small scale)
He has done some experiments on the "bullet proof" glass, which is polycarbonate (laminated glass). It weakens with UV light not to the point of shattering on impact on its own, but the radiation does cause it to become more brittle. Also, if a battery leaks, the acid will fog and damage the plastic.
Infact any acid (from citric to sulphuric) will damage the plastic to a degree.
I remember one experiment my friend did in which he had built an led flashlight. It leaked and fogged over, when he went to check on it it shattered in his hands. Now I dont know the width of the plastic, but it still occurred.
Another Question would be along the proofness of them.
How are you going to deal with an exposed usb plug? just a cap to go over them? what about the seams? (I assume that this is going to be a 2 piece pressed mould)
As an Idea how about making the interior of the sock waterproof around the ball.
Good call on the internal triangular supports. What diameter are the tubules going to be? and are they going to be flexible at all? or stiff as a board?
PS can i see the insides of them? like a ball cut in half. (I promise not to distribute the plans at all, Scouts honour)
Thanks
CBMS
And Shepherds We Shall Be..
"Is my hair on fire?"
Damn! My pants really are on fire!"
So the whole white gas thing on the campfire was a bad idea....
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
You can get UV resistant grades of polycarbonate, but they'll be in socks most of the time which should limit their exposure (think how much of a difference wearing clothes makes to your skin!).
If a battery leaks, you're going to have problems full stop. Never mind the plastic; I'd be more worried about people hurting themselves! I think NiMh batteries are probably less horrible than a car battery (I'm only guessing that was the type he used based on your assertion that he is a mechanic). Unless their built out of metal (not going to happen!) I don't think there's much that can be done about that...
What makes your think the USB socket will be exposed? The ball will come apart in the middle (probably held by a screw thread).. which also gives you access to the batteries. The socks aren't going to be waterproof for two reasons:
1) They're socks!
2) If you start water-proofing, you'll lose some breathability and Hyperlights work very hard so they need to be able to dump the heat generated somehow.
They're part of the housing.. so they're as flexible as polycarbonate is
All in good time.. but trust me, it's a good design
Written by: CBMS
As for the polycarbonate casings and the things that have caused them to become brittle.
I have a friend who is a car mechanic, and also a great inventor and chemist. (great on a small scale)
He has done some experiments on the "bullet proof" glass, which is polycarbonate (laminated glass). It weakens with UV light not to the point of shattering on impact on its own, but the radiation does cause it to become more brittle. Also, if a battery leaks, the acid will fog and damage the plastic.
Infact any acid (from citric to sulphuric) will damage the plastic to a degree.
I remember one experiment my friend did in which he had built an led flashlight. It leaked and fogged over, when he went to check on it it shattered in his hands. Now I dont know the width of the plastic, but it still occurred.
You can get UV resistant grades of polycarbonate, but they'll be in socks most of the time which should limit their exposure (think how much of a difference wearing clothes makes to your skin!).
If a battery leaks, you're going to have problems full stop. Never mind the plastic; I'd be more worried about people hurting themselves! I think NiMh batteries are probably less horrible than a car battery (I'm only guessing that was the type he used based on your assertion that he is a mechanic). Unless their built out of metal (not going to happen!) I don't think there's much that can be done about that...
Written by: CBMS
Another Question would be along the proofness of them. How are you going to deal with an exposed usb plug? just a cap to go over them? what about the seams? (I assume that this is going to be a 2 piece pressed mould). As an Idea how about making the interior of the sock waterproof around the ball.
What makes your think the USB socket will be exposed?
The ball will come apart in the middle (probably held by a screw thread).. which also gives you access to the batteries. The socks aren't going to be waterproof for two reasons:1) They're socks!
2) If you start water-proofing, you'll lose some breathability and Hyperlights work very hard so they need to be able to dump the heat generated somehow.
Written by: CBMS
Good call on the internal triangular supports. What diameter are the tubules going to be? and are they going to be flexible at all? or stiff as a board?
They're part of the housing.. so they're as flexible as polycarbonate is
Written by: CBMS
PS can i see the insides of them? like a ball cut in half. (I promise not to distribute the plans at all, Scouts honour)
All in good time.. but trust me, it's a good design
Cake or Death?
SILVER Member
Hitman
985 posts
Location: Gloucester England
Hitman
985 posts
Location: Gloucester England
Posted:
i saw these in real life at play festival 2007 and they are definartly value for money...
btw the way hyperlight how are u didnt get much time to speak at play other then to say hello... i am number 100 on signup to btw
i saw these in real life at play festival 2007 and they are definartly value for money...
btw the way hyperlight how are u didnt get much time to speak at play other then to say hello... i am number 100 on signup to btw
he he i am mike the amazing gloscircus person who is mike.
Officaly an exception to the Poi Boys are Girls Thing
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
SILVER Member
Hitman
985 posts
Location: Gloucester England
Hitman
985 posts
Location: Gloucester England
Posted:
no surprises there always busy with somthing ent ya .... i am good ta, also very busy though new job etc.... play seems like ages ago now
no surprises there always busy with somthing ent ya .... i am good ta, also very busy though new job etc.... play seems like ages ago now
he he i am mike the amazing gloscircus person who is mike.
Officaly an exception to the Poi Boys are Girls Thing
GOLD Member
Walking on whims...
687 posts
Location: Eastbourne, UK
Walking on whims...
687 posts
Location: Eastbourne, UK
Posted:
Keep up the good work!!
Keep up the good work!!
Skatto
"Fly like a mouse,
Run like a cushion,
Be the small bookcase."
For goodness sake, don't aggravate the otters!!!
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,895 posts
Location: Cambridge UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,895 posts
Location: Cambridge UK
Posted:
*bump*
any chance of an update?
*bump*
any chance of an update?
Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant
Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.
'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
Yup, the last couple of weeks have been insanely busy with my day job. My workload is getting back to normal proportions again though so I should have some time to crack on with getting the prototype ball built (test fitting the electronics etc.).
It's my grandparents diamond wedding anniversary this weds (well done them!!) so once that's out of the way I should finally be able to get back to it.
I've been improving some of the button pressing code (the bit on the poi that lets you choose which sequences to run) and the bootloading which will allow me to send you guys updates to the software that drives the poi via t'interweb (for free).
Yup, the last couple of weeks have been insanely busy with my day job. My workload is getting back to normal proportions again though so I should have some time to crack on with getting the prototype ball built (test fitting the electronics etc.).
It's my grandparents diamond wedding anniversary this weds (well done them!!) so once that's out of the way I should finally be able to get back to it.
I've been improving some of the button pressing code (the bit on the poi that lets you choose which sequences to run) and the bootloading which will allow me to send you guys updates to the software that drives the poi via t'interweb (for free
). Cake or Death?
SILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Posted:
Happy Anniversary Grandpa and Gradma Hyperlight 
Happy Anniversary Grandpa and Gradma Hyperlight
Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,895 posts
Location: Cambridge UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,895 posts
Location: Cambridge UK
Posted:
ta
ta
Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant
Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.
'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi
SILVER Member
enthusiast
276 posts
Location: Sweden
enthusiast
276 posts
Location: Sweden
Posted:
"Happy Anniversary Grandpa and Gradma Hyperlight"
( Nods )
Lappi lappi anniversary!
"Happy Anniversary Grandpa and Gradma Hyperlight"
( Nods )
Lappi lappi anniversary!
SILVER Member
Member
Location: USA
Member
Location: USA
Posted:
was i reading someone right with the 150 pounds thing? i forget the conversion tables.. but isn't that still like $100 USD?
was i reading someone right with the 150 pounds thing? i forget the conversion tables.. but isn't that still like $100 USD?
GOLD Member
enthusiast
248 posts
Location: Ireland
enthusiast
248 posts
Location: Ireland
Posted:
hmm i think so... its down from about 250euro to 190euro with the conversions at the moment so i may convert my money soon
hmm i think so... its down from about 250euro to 190euro with the conversions at the moment so i may convert my money soon
BRONZE Member
compfuzzled
1,182 posts
Location: hastings, England (UK)
compfuzzled
1,182 posts
Location: hastings, England (UK)
Posted:
£150.00 = $296.067
£150.00 = 185.667 EUR
conversion taken from www.xe.com
sorry if i burst your bubble a little bit holzy
Written by :Holzy
was i reading someone right with the 150 pounds thing? i forget the conversion tables.. but isn't that still like $100 USD?
£150.00 = $296.067
£150.00 = 185.667 EUR
conversion taken from www.xe.com
sorry if i burst your bubble a little bit holzy
"the geeks have got you" - Gayle
SILVER Member
member
49 posts
Location: Cypress (Houston), Texas, USA
member
49 posts
Location: Cypress (Houston), Texas, USA
Posted:
100 USD? LOL That would be awsome!!
...
...
...
100 USD? LOL That would be awsome!!
...
...
...
GOLD Member
addict
498 posts
Location: Nottingham, United Kingdom
addict
498 posts
Location: Nottingham, United Kingdom
Posted:
50 quid would be awesome!!! yeh just pretty much double british money to get american money - i cant afford them either way i feel an early christmas list is in formation 
50 quid would be awesome!!! yeh just pretty much double british money to get american money - i cant afford them either way
i feel an early christmas list is in formation Thoughts arrive like butterflies...
*Property of Pigeon Wigeon*
893 posts
Location: Locked In Pigeons Chimney
893 posts
Location: Locked In Pigeons Chimney
Posted:
/me Wishes he could do poi so he could justify buying some of these. Crosses fingers for production of a staff to come at a point when he has cash
/me Wishes he could do poi so he could justify buying some of these. Crosses fingers for production of a staff to come at a point when he has cash
Could somebody stop the room please... I'd like to get off
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