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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Total posts: 3597
Posted:So I've heard that the term Kiwi is an offensive slur, I've also heard that it is a title that is looked at with pride by NZers. I dont get it, has it taken on the conotations of Nigger, they can call themselves that but no one else can. Please explain. Also if anyone happens to know the orgin of the term please post. thanks.

O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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georgemc
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

georgemc

Sitting down facing forward . . .
Location: Christchurch

Total posts: 2387
Posted:Hey Poje wave
Where'd you hear that "Kiwi" is regarded in the same way as the "N word"? I usually look on someone calling me a Kiwi with pride and take it as a compliment! Because usually when one is called a kiwi, the person saying it is implying they know we are from New Zealand and are a bunch of pretty special people biggrin - I mean they could've said "oh you're a New Zealander" but chose to say "you're a Kiwi" instead. What's the difference? To me the difference is that being called a Kiwi includes some or all of the following: yes from NZ, but also: fun, inventive ("Number 8 wire" mentality), socially aware, often well travelled with many life experiences, self reliant, confident but not cocky, polite, respectful, responsible, proud of our country the recognition and achievemnets etc etc.

NZ has only a brief history compared to most nations - only a few hundred years, but in that time and for our size (smaller national population than many countries cities!) how many people internationally have NOT heard of us and know something about us? So New York city has a population that's twice the size of NZ so it would be like half of NYC consistantly dominating the world in Americas Cup, World Cup Rugby, Soccer, cricket, Olympics etc, as well as making a difference in international politics, business etc etc etc.

The number 8 wire mentality comment needs explaining probably: No8 wire is the standard size for farm fence wire over here. It is often said that any Kiwi can make anything with a couple of bits of No8 wire and maybe some corrugated iron. I think it comes from the pioneering days when NZ being many months by boat from anywhere else meant that people had to fend for themselves. If something went wrong they had to fix themselves, build it themselves and make do with what they had. Possibly because this is all so recent in our history, we still keep that spirit in our character and makeup. Over here there's plenty of books and references to it. I remember all kinds of stories that illustrate it, from the noted historic achievements - Kiwi's will tell you a Kiwi beat the Wright Brothers to be the first to achieve flight, Ernest Rutherford atomic pioneer, Edmund Hillary first up Everest, to the more mundane and day to day. I heard that during WW2 our Airforce managed to increase it's inventory of planes by scrounging from the US Forces rubbish heaps! etc etc etc.

I could go and on! (sorry for getting carried away!) smile

What else - oh - origin of the term:
I believe the origin is gradual but mostly from the WW2. We have always used the fern leaf and the Kiwi as fairly unique symbols of our country. The silver fern has become the most common modern symbol as adopted by the All Blacks and many others, but during WW2 the fern was the hat badge, but many of the unit markings on vehicles, supplies and I think shoulder patch used the Kiwi bird. Route markers for vehicles and zone markers in occupied areas used the Kiwi. I think the other soldiers including the Germans picked up on it and they used the word Kiwi when shouting propoganda, abuse, enticements to surrender etc at them. (By the way, the enemy that faced the Kiwi forces whether they be German, Japanese, Vietnamese etc, always came away with a healthy respect for their capabilities. They were the preferred troops to surrender to when it came to that part of the war, and there are recorded instances where the enemy packed up and quit when they heard they were facing Kiwi's).
So the term "Kiwi" as a label for people from New Zealand came from us using the kiwi bird as a unique symbol of our country.

I think that might have answered most of what you were asking, but perhaps hasn't been a complete story!

cheers!


Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread

I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it.
grin

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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

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Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Total posts: 3597
Posted:haha perfect, thanks George. I hadn't heard that kiwi was the same as the N word i was wondering if it was similar. And its a good thing you mentioned kiwi bird because i always thought it was the fruit it was referring to. Its good to know that its a pride thing and i dont have to worry about using the term.

One last question, well actually 2 because i just thought of another one. Is kiwi capitalized? Do you have to be born in NZ to be a kiwi or can i move there and become an honorary kiwi?


O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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Invader Xan
SILVER Member since May 2005

Invader Xan

Your friendly neighbourhood mad scientist
Location: Over the hills and far away

Total posts: 479
Posted:Just one of those words, I guess. Like Canuck or Aussie...



That's an awesome bit of history there George. Thanks a lot. smile


"Love the art in yourself and not yourself in the art."
--Konstantin Stanislavisky

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

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Total posts: 13215
Posted:What's a Canuck? I've heard of it but never actually known what it is

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Invader Xan
SILVER Member since May 2005

Invader Xan

Your friendly neighbourhood mad scientist
Location: Over the hills and far away

Total posts: 479
Posted:Slang term for a Canadian. smile
I've known quite a few Canadian folk use the term proudly!


"Love the art in yourself and not yourself in the art."
--Konstantin Stanislavisky

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hamamelis
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.

Total posts: 756
Posted:Kiwi fruit are named after the birdie.. They used to be called 'chinese gooseberries' until NZ adopted them, I believe..?

It's a really cute word anyway. smile


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

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Posted:I don't think 'kiwi' would be the same as 'nigger.' There's a huge history of social oppression, civil disputes, slavery and prejudice. It still wasn't that long ago when african american's were forced to use separate rest rooms and sit at the back of the bus or stand. It was 1954 when U.S congress deemed that segregated education was not acceptable.

Not to say that kiwi may not have negative connotations! I always think of it was a playful term myself.


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roarfire
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

roarfire

comfortably numb
Location: The countryside

Total posts: 2676
Posted:My cats name is Kiwi smile

.All things are beautiful if we take the time to look.

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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Total posts: 3597
Posted: Written by: organic_poi


I don't think 'kiwi' would be the same as 'nigger.' There's a huge history of social oppression, civil disputes, slavery and prejudice. It still wasn't that long ago when african american's were forced to use separate rest rooms and sit at the back of the bus or stand. It was 1954 when U.S congress deemed that segregated education was not acceptable.



oh i understand that i was refering to how nigger is said with pride amongsts some black groups and on the inside circle, its not a bad thing. but i get it now thanks everyone.


O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
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Total posts: 13215
Posted: Written by: Invader Xan


Slang term for a Canadian. smile
I've known quite a few Canadian folk use the term proudly!



I suspected that that's what it was. I have never heard someone call themselves that though! weird ubbloco


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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georgemc
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

georgemc

Sitting down facing forward . . .
Location: Christchurch

Total posts: 2387
Posted: Written by: triskaidekia


Kiwi fruit are named after the birdie.. They used to be called 'chinese gooseberries' until NZ adopted them, I believe..?


Correct. We had gooseberries and chinese gooseberries as a kid and I believe the term kiwifruit came about when they started exporting them to distinguish them from the ones out of China. A year or 2 ago they decided "kiwifruit" wasn't distinctive enough to stand for the NZ grown kiwifruit (because many people are growing them now), and they've started calling NZ grown kiwifruit "Zespri" eek

"Canuck", I always thought was referring to a Canadian in partially disparaging terms. Similar to "Yank" for Americans. I mean they're not nasty or as negative as the "n word" but I wouldn't use the term normally when speaking to someone from those countries.

I think there are quite a few people in the world who think us "Kiwi"'s are strange to name ourselves after a fuzzy fruit! But then that's because they're more familiar with the fruit than the bird. smile
One of the souvenir T-shirts that is reasonably popular here is one with the slogan: "I'm a genuine Kiwi that eats roots and leaves" ! (if it seems like an odd statement, try adding some commas in strategic places!)!!. wink


Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread

I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it.
grin

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

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Total posts: 13215
Posted:Or maybe because the true origin of the fruit is a little bit gross? wink


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i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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georgemc
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

georgemc

Sitting down facing forward . . .
Location: Christchurch

Total posts: 2387
Posted: Written by: poje

One last question, well actually 2 because i just thought of another one. Is kiwi capitalized? Do you have to be born in NZ to be a kiwi or can i move there and become an honorary kiwi?


Oops double post - sorry, but missed your questions.

Kiwi is probably correctly capitalised since it is really referring to a race of people when used in that way.
And yes, you can move here and become a Kiwi - but you have to swear an oath of allegiance to Marmite, L&P and Watties tomato sauce first! Oh, and undying hatred of all Aussies - well, maybe hatred is too strong - you know like brothers - you have to publicly ridicule them but if anyone is mean to them you'll be first person there beside them sorting it out! biggrin
( nana Rouge nana )


Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread

I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it.
grin

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

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Total posts: 13215
Posted:why do i not trust you to be there beside me sorting it out tongue

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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georgemc
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

georgemc

Sitting down facing forward . . .
Location: Christchurch

Total posts: 2387
Posted:well, if it's you in trouble, it's probably something you started and therefore something you deserve, so I'll be all like nana on the sidelines unless it starts getting too nasty and then I'll come and rescue you. I'd do the same for anyone ubbangel

Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread

I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it.
grin

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Invader Xan
SILVER Member since May 2005

Invader Xan

Your friendly neighbourhood mad scientist
Location: Over the hills and far away

Total posts: 479
Posted: Written by: georgemc


"Canuck", I always thought was referring to a Canadian in partially disparaging terms. Similar to "Yank" for Americans. I mean they're not nasty or as negative as the "n word" but I wouldn't use the term normally when speaking to someone from those countries.



Kinda like Limey?
Gah... It irks me when people call us Brits "Limeys"... Even if it is the name of a clothes shop these days!


 Written by: Rouge Dragon


Or maybe because the true origin of the fruit is a little bit gross? wink


Non-Https Image Link




That's genius! ubblol


"Love the art in yourself and not yourself in the art."
--Konstantin Stanislavisky

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Beth


Beth

Miss Whippy
Location: Cornwall & Oxford

Total posts: 1262
Posted:I don't like being called a 'limey' either, or a 'pommie'. Just seems a bit offensive somehow even if it's not meant to be.

My Kiwi friends in the UK prefer to be referred to as such, they are proud of it! smile


Aim high and you'll know your limits, aim low and you'll never know how high you could have climbed.

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
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Total posts: 13215
Posted:As my British friend who used to live in Australia told his British mate who was coming over here: "If they don't call you a pommie [censored] then they hate you"
And, well, it's kinda true! ubblol


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Invader Xan
SILVER Member since May 2005

Invader Xan

Your friendly neighbourhood mad scientist
Location: Over the hills and far away

Total posts: 479
Posted:ubblol Yeah, I don't mine being called a pommie. tongue

"Love the art in yourself and not yourself in the art."
--Konstantin Stanislavisky

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

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Posted:oops, i got censored! "a pommie person who was conceived out of wedlock" that better? tongue

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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hamamelis
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.

Total posts: 756
Posted:I thought Zespri was just the major NZ kiwifruit export company- in fact I know it is, I worked for them for a few weeks (plus, I'm that kind of person, so I looked it up to check).


I got my brother a t-shirt with the 'how to prepare a kiwi'.. biggrin


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

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georgemc
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

georgemc

Sitting down facing forward . . .
Location: Christchurch

Total posts: 2387
Posted:From a NZTE Horticulture report:
"ZESPRI International sells the green Hayward variety of kiwifruit. Its product portfolio includes ZESPRI Green, ZESPRI Gold and ZESPRI Organic."

At one of the industry events I was at a while ago I remember being told about how they are trying to rebrand THEIR kiwifruit compared to everyone else's. I think the "invention" of the Gold kiwifruit also has a lot to do with it.


Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread

I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it.
grin

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

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Total posts: 13215
Posted:so they're responsible for the horrible gold kiwi fruits ubblol

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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GitasGuy


GitasGuy

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Location: Brisbane

Total posts: 2303
Posted: Written by: georgemc


So New York city has a population that's twice the size of NZ so it would be like half of NYC consistantly dominating the world in Americas Cup, World Cup Rugby, Soccer, cricket, Olympics etc, as well as making a difference in international politics, business etc etc etc.




I'd just like to ruffle a few Kiwi feathers here and ask at what point George have you dominated us very distinguished Aussies at Soccer, Cricket, Olympics. Never mind the rest of the competing nations. (don't bring up the chapel hadley serie that has just passed, cause ours was a half strength side) ubbrollsmile I'll give you Rugby and America Cup!!! I figure the reason you are all so good a sailing is the fact you keep trying to make your way over here. ubblol biggrin


:admires giant wooden aeroplane: Its about time trees were good for something, instead of just standing their like jerks!!! ubblol ubbtickled

Homer rocks!!!! ubblol ubbrollsmile

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georgemc
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

georgemc

Sitting down facing forward . . .
Location: Christchurch

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Posted:ubblol make me smile Mr Gitas!
My enthusiasm carrying me away again - I simply was trying to give people without a lot of knowledge some examples of how for a small population we don't do too badly on the world stage.

and, I WAS going to say in there that Australia has a very similar success story, but after the above cracks I will refrain from going quite that far! biggrin


Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread

I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it.
grin

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GitasGuy


GitasGuy

Pooh-Bah
Location: Brisbane

Total posts: 2303
Posted:carried away, hmmm i think you were praying on the uninformed to believe that your small little island stuck at the bottom of the world was better than it really is!!! Hehehe i mean its a nice place to visit and all, apart from being full of KIWI'S. The scenery is nice, apart from all the KIWI'S.

ubblol ubblol ubblol tongue

(if Valura reads this she is going to kick my arse)


:admires giant wooden aeroplane: Its about time trees were good for something, instead of just standing their like jerks!!! ubblol ubbtickled

Homer rocks!!!! ubblol ubbrollsmile

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georgemc
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

georgemc

Sitting down facing forward . . .
Location: Christchurch

Total posts: 2387
Posted:well you could say the same thing about Ozz-trar-lee-ar I suppose - it's a nice place to visit apart from all the snakes, spiders, abandoned deserted deserts, and of course all the Ockers/Strines... biggrin

(Come on Valura - come on in with the butt kicking! ubblol ubblol ubblol )


Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread

I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it.
grin

Delete

Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:They're just there to keep the pansies out wink
EDITED_BY: Rouge Dragon (1189148615)


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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georgemc
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

georgemc

Sitting down facing forward . . .
Location: Christchurch

Total posts: 2387
Posted:so no flowers .... - what do the hippies do? biggrin

Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread

I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it.
grin

Delete

Invader Xan
SILVER Member since May 2005

Invader Xan

Your friendly neighbourhood mad scientist
Location: Over the hills and far away

Total posts: 479
Posted:I love Australia... pretty much everything's either deadly poisonous or highly flammable! tongue

"Love the art in yourself and not yourself in the art."
--Konstantin Stanislavisky

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