Forums > Social Discussion > Maori dislike of performance poi

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DarkFyre
DarkFyre

HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
Location: Palmerston North
Member Since: 4th Nov 2005
Total posts: 1965
Posted:Ok i just thought that i would bring this up because i can.

Many (but not all) traditional Maori types seem to dislike our kind of poi and they seem to take it as offencive to there culture or something along those lines. There seems to be this ingrained view that if you are doing anything other than Kappa Haka with traditional precussion poi that you are somehow soiling their culture.

Just for one genuine example, i was on my way into town on Witangi day (NZ indipendance day if that helps non Kiwis understand it better) and i was spinning my poi as i went (when i passed sombody on the street i showed off a little bit) but when i passed this Maori woman she gave me a filthy look and with utter contempt in her voice said to her hubby loud enough for all to hear "look what they're doing with our poi" and i just couldn't understand wy she was so dissaproving of my spinning.

The flipside of this however is when they come up to you bold as brass and demand to spin because they are so much better at poi than you will ever be, they then proceed to hit themsleves in the head much to my amusement.

I've never understood this maori tendancy to say that anything they came up with is theirs and theirs alone so damn anybody that trys to addapt or improve upon it.

All this said and done the younger or less traditional Maori will either not care or be poi spinners that appreciate the growth that this artform has seen.


May my balls of fire set your balls on fire devil

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DarkFyre
DarkFyre

HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
Location: Palmerston North
Member Since: 4th Nov 2005
Total posts: 1965
Posted: Written by: AlbertaBoy


I have no experience with the Maori people personally, but I have had friends go down to New Zealand. They have told me that the Maori people are barbarians. Very uncivilized people. If that is true, you can't expect them to have an open mind to anything really, so I guess naturally they would not be able to think logically about variations of their own poi, and other people participating in what they see as theirs.



To put it another way your an arse

Now lets never speak of this noncense again or I'll send a couple of the Black Power bros round to your place for some "re-education".

I do belive that i earlier stated that not all Maori have such a small view and that my objection was to those that arn't willing to play nice and for the record they are in the minority.


May my balls of fire set your balls on fire devil

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FireByNite
FireByNite

Are you up for it??
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 8th Dec 2004
Total posts: 349
Posted:To Alberta-Boy - You've made only 4 posts yet 1 of them insults the people who provided this "great" inspiration of poi a few hundred years ago?



You have a website that promotes fire twirling and trade stocks yet you cannot grasp the basic form of discussion without insult?



As a "kiwi", even though I am not Maori myself I am proud to be a New Zealander associated with the culture.



For everyone else -



No matter how many of us have experienced good or bad relations with Maori and no matter how much "our" fire poi differ from that tradional cultural art, (or are similar) "poi" is a maori word and people should not insult it's origins



/rant


Are you up for it?
wink;)

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AlbertaBoy
AlbertaBoy

newbie
Location: Alberta
Member Since: 8th Jun 2005
Total posts: 7
Posted:Well, thank-you everyone for taking so much interest in me.

FireByNight, thanks for telling people to go to my web site, but you could have at least put the address in your post and make it easy for people, www.mpireoffire.com. Please visit, it has some of the most stunning and original fire pictures ever taken of a professional fire performer. And as far as your implication of sending me harassing phone calls, it's childish, but most people who are into poi are usually too poor to afford the long distance call so, whatever.

As for everyone else. Calm down. I just posted a message that summarized the fact that I could understand, from the perceptions I received from friends who met Maori people, that they might not be understanding of foreign people taking what may be considered sacred to them and using it for their own purposes. Don't read into it what's not there, I think you all may just be blood thirsty.


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Sambo_Flux
Sambo_Flux

Introverted
Location: Norf London
Member Since: 14th Jun 2006
Total posts: 833
Posted:I suggest everyone use the ignore button right about now rather than dignifying this plonker with a response.

My Mind is a Ship
Emotions become the Waves
Soul is the Ocean

If a quizz is quizzical, what is a test?

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DarkFyre
DarkFyre

HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
Location: Palmerston North
Member Since: 4th Nov 2005
Total posts: 1965
Posted:Ok Alberta Boy
the comment you posted was offencive and displayed an ignorance as to maori culture and while you may not understand maori culture there are just some things that are better left unsaid. That comment not only offends maori but also New Zealand as a whole not to mention those such as myself and all of those that have shown there distaste for your comments.

Most civilazed persons dissaprove of small minded and bigoted comments such as the one that you have made and further more I wouldn't exspect that link of yours to be getting many hits since you have blatantly offended the HoP community.

Finnaly
"has some of the most stunning and original fire pictures ever taken of a professional fire performer"
please recognise that this is a poi and fire toy site and that many of the members spin at a profesional / semi pro level yet they still desire to improve upon their skills rather than saying that they are "stunning" and promoting themselves, not to mention that it a breach of HoP's T&C (i think)

This is not in the spirit of HoP at all and a 'sorry I didn't mean to offend' wouldn't hurt but instead you tell everybody to "Calm down" and further insult the HoPpers that view these forums.


May my balls of fire set your balls on fire devil

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FireByNite
FireByNite

Are you up for it??
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 8th Dec 2004
Total posts: 349
Posted:Back on topic: dizzypheonix - I hope that you don't have to come across any others like that lady you mentioned in your first post, as every "maori" I've come across has thought it great.

 Written by: dizzypheonix


Now lets never speak of this noncense again or I'll send a couple of the Black Power bros round to your place for some "re-education".




ubblol ubblol ubblol love ya comment biggrin

Edit: Oops, sorry for mentioning "this nonsense" again


Are you up for it?
wink;)

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Valura
Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member Since: 25th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6391
Posted: Written by: AlbertaBoy



I have no experience with the Maori people personally, but I have had friends go down to New Zealand. They have told me that the Maori people are barbarians. Very uncivilized people. If that is true, you can't expect them to have an open mind to anything really, so I guess naturally they would not be able to think logically about variations of their own poi, and other people participating in what they see as theirs.







I would suggest that if your friends are saying such things that THEY are the uncivilized barbarians.



What a condescending air your post has about it. "Naturally assuming" that a certain race of people are unable to be logical due to their "uncivilized" nature... my god... that smacks of conceit.



How could you possibly sit there and slag such a beautiful culture when you are MAKING MONEY off an art form based on that very culture? That portrays yourself to be a very arrogant and ignorant person, with small minded views in my opinion.



Now this post is incredibly out of character for me, I'm usually a pretty happy person on this site... but you have made me feel nauseated with contempt.



Im a kiwi born and bred, some of the most amazing people I have ever met are Maori people, and when you rip into them, you also offend my very heritage and upbringing.



*no emoticon for what I'm feeling right now*


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Sambo_Flux
Sambo_Flux

Introverted
Location: Norf London
Member Since: 14th Jun 2006
Total posts: 833
Posted:For the record, I don't think "AlbertaBoy" is actually the guy that runs that website, I think he may well be a troll trying to wind us up. Could be someone that has a grudge against the site owner... easy enough to hijack someone's identity. All his previous posts have been offensive and designed to provoke flaming. shrug

My Mind is a Ship
Emotions become the Waves
Soul is the Ocean

If a quizz is quizzical, what is a test?

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:ubblol

Lads... try not to let this guy upset you...

He's just an arrogant 'boy' who thinks he's the best in the world - why would he need to show respect to anyone else?! Everyone should be showing respect to him umm

Ignore his posts, horrendously ill-informed, negative and offensive as they are, and just continue with what is a good, and needed debate.

I haven't opened his fire store link, and won't be... but if he's trying to sell fire equipment, alienating a large marketbase such as this one, is probably not going to help.


Anyhows.... NYC... I think that's a really important point...

You treat people respectfully, you get treated respectfully in return... (:))
Cassandra and Dom and Nick are all beautiful people (at least, I still haven't met Cassandra yet... but so I'm told smile ) and I'm sure they approached any Maori interest with a good attitude.

I think we should care what Maori people think... at least, I do.

These are a people whose land was taken off them by white men with guns (and yes, we could argue that they took their land from the Maoriori.... but I think the difference between guns and tribal warfare is significant).

The fact that now something from their culture is being celebrated around the world is something they can be proud of... if it's done with respect.

If it's some mouthy teenager using it to show off to his/her mates in a really obnoxious way, then i can understand why some Maori wouldn't want to be associated with it.

shrug

Anyways... has anyone thought of anything practical - apart from being nice?

Is there a Maori poi meet we could say hello at? Or has that been done already?

x


Getting to the other side smile

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Maai
Maai

journeyman
Location: Arnhem
Member Since: 5th Jul 2006
Total posts: 56
Posted:I was at a kiwi birthday party half a year ago, she's my causin. There were little traditional poi around her birthday cake. Some people knew i did a little poi so they asked me. So I did some moves.
There was only one other kiwi around, all the other people were dutch. But that guy's eyes must have almost fallen out of his head because i heard my dad say: "Never seen a pakea swing poi like that, did you?"
I'm still really bad at poi and I don't think Bodean was mad at me or anything. But I can imagine that his culture was kinda like stolen. On the other hand, how cool is it if a part of your culture grows out like that, all around the world? You can see it as it getting cheap, or as growing/evolving.


Without Poi in heaven, I won't go!

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DarkFyre
DarkFyre

HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
Location: Palmerston North
Member Since: 4th Nov 2005
Total posts: 1965
Posted:Clare most of there land wasn't taken by force but sold for food and guns but even if they where ripped off most of the land was still sold to the white man not taken.

Next point I dont think that maori have poi meets as such but they include traditional poi teachings at the marae (trbal meeting place) and this is incorporated into kapa haka and often demostrated to visiting officials or tourists however the emphisis is on maori culture overall and not specificaly poi spinning. Often there will be a Haka (the war dance the All Blacks do) first then speaches about the maori way and then this is followed by kappa haka which is more festive and includes singing, female poi and male taiha all at the one time or strung together as a show. Personally i consider this a shame since it would be great if maoridom embrace this art form with the same enthusiam as us HoPpers.

I remember when i was doing the World of Wearable Art Awards, I auditioned to do poi or staff (either with fire or in UV i wasn't fussy) but i got given a cast role instead (which also suited me just fine). During dead time me and my mates generally practiced some poi or had a chat coz as anybody that has ever been part of a large event will know its all very 'Hurry up and Wait' and your either bored stiff or running about like a loonatic. WOW also hired a kapa haka group to do poi for one part of the show and while most of them showed a vague intrest in what we where doing all but one of the girls rufused our repeted invitations to learn some new tricks, incidently the one chick that wished to learn some new tricks was white and all of the other girls where maori.

This i feel bring us back to the topic because while many maori don't technically show any dislike for what we do many of them seem highly disinterested because it not what they do. However traditional poi does have it's merrits since it teaches to work effectivly in very small circles and to change the plane of your spin flawlessly.


May my balls of fire set your balls on fire devil

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Kathain_Bowen
Kathain_Bowen

Good Ol' Yarn For Hair
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Member Since: 24th Jan 2006
Total posts: 422
Posted: Written by: NYC


Was your last sentence an example of "Western Culture's Barbaric Nature"?

ubblol

...
No, but you're calling it "poi" which is their word for their religious practices and their dance.



I was having a mighty bad day and came to the conclusion that I basically couldn't care less what ANYONE thought about ANYTHING last night. A woman decided to change her very messy baby in the middle of the shop (a grocery store that the day care center is located in). The sheer grossness and audacity of her whole family (a slew of issues) had me very aggravated with just about everything.

I still don't care what they think because, y'know what, I'm not doing it out of disrespect. I'm not doing it to be laughed at our scorned, nor am I doing it to laugh at or scorn their traditional practices. And that's what I was attempting to word, but it came out all wrong. I'm taking the time to try and learn about where the art originates from and treat it as an art. If a Maori, or a person from any culture were to treat me poorly for spinning, I would encourage them, perhaps with profanity, to open their eyes and ears, shut their mouth, and see something beautiful that isn't all that common.

On the same token, I learned how to hula some years ago out of respect for Hawaiian culture. I didn't learn the cheesy hula you so often see in Bob Hope movies. No. I learned many of their stories. However, ten years has blacked out much of my memory, and I can only remember this short, kind of meh one that was our "warm up" dance about catching fish. I still do it sometimes, despite looking funny "casting the net over my shoulder." redface

Poi, by the way, is also a word for a traditional Hawaiian dish involving boiled down taro root that has been allowed to cook for several hours to avoid causing a sharp burning in the back of the throat and mashed/ground into a smooth, paste which is eaten with your fingers from a communal dish. Just kidding..... on bringing that up, not the burning sensation. hug

But, like I also said I my post, on the one hand, I do understand that there is a large consumption and commercialization in Western culture of what is considered to be "exotic" and "unique" cultures. I'm hitting friction right now with different tribes of Northeastern America while searching for answers to a family mystery. Why? Not because I'm being disrepectful, nor because I'm curious, but because there have been lawsuits in the last few years of people using DNA testing to force their way into tribes and into their government. I'm being seen as someone how may try to do that, when I just want to understand where my family came from.

.... yeah.... my current dilemma could also possibly be feeding the "I couldn't give a damn" thing, too. redface


"So long and thanks for all the fish."

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:Hmmm...

As far as I remember... prime land spots and hunting grounds were sold off for a relative pittance (and guns) by pakeha who were more than willing to take advantage of Maori chiefs.

It certainly wasn't a fair moral exchange, if you do want to apply contemporary standards.

But my point was... it's for the Maori to accept that injustice and let it go... but the spread of poi could be seen as a postive spread of their culture. Perhaps?

Also... I realise poi is mainly kept for ceremonial or touristy purposes these days... but surely there is a female Maori poi group or organisation that could be approached in the right way.

It seems those interested in traditional Maori poi wouldn't be so impressed with someone coming up to them and saying 'hey, let me teach you some new tricks'. Did you ask them about the history of poi first? Or ask them how long they'd been doing it? Or where they learned? Or why? Or was it all about the moves? rolleyes


And changing the plane of your spin flawlessly is a move I'd very much like to learn...

smile


Getting to the other side smile

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:A'Boy: I interpreted your first post as pretty ignorant... your second is plain silly and arrogant, as you find no words of remorse for putting out such idiotic predjudice without personal verification. It's too easy to claim: But I only repeated what my friends said...

Maybe your entire intent was to boost traffic to that website (I now decline to click on the link for exactly that reason)... Too bad - I am usually psyched by fire-photography shrug guess it backfired (with me)...

However, I am a bit sensitive on the "collective guilt pattern" issue rolleyes unfortunately there are not many white countries that have spilled glory upon themselves for treating others with respect... is there? Any?

Find me amazed that the Maori community seems to be so unaware about what is going on with "their" Poi in the world out there... Malcolm, George... what's happening? confused

Further, I can't quite comprehend with the idea that I might be violating their feelings with what I am doing and have to reconsider whether I should then continue to call it "Poi" at all (IF that is against Maori understanding, definition and appreciation).

I do not intent to hurt their feelings - if that is what I am doing, I will rather refer to it as "Martial Art". But I do sincerely hope that in the end "we" - as a community - will find their approval.

Never mind the individual wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Spanner
Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...
Member Since: 27th Feb 2003
Total posts: 2790
Posted: Written by: AlbertaBoy



Please visit, it has some of the most stunning and original fire pictures ever taken of a professional fire performer.







Where?



 Written by:

And as far as your implication of sending me harassing phone calls, it's childish, but most people who are into poi are usually too poor to afford the long distance call so, whatever.





Well, as we're still generalising, I think most people who are into poi wouldn't afford you a call anyway smile



History of Poi in New Zealand



 Written by: Daisy Hemana

I needed to let you know how we view the poi history. AS Maori people We are not the same across the whole country, we have our own unique genealogies in not only our lives but also our implements and poi. Thankyou for this way of letting me tell you.



"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Oh yes, I missed out on that one... would put it differently: Most ppl who are into poi really can't be bothered to engage with ignoramus'

Somehow I feel tempted to draw parallels between Poi and Yidaki (as both are part of indigenous cultures "down under", both have a sacred/ important part in the cultures, both are more popular outside than inside the country, both (seem to have) strong regional influences and both have underwent significant changes and are (almost) deprived of their original context...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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VampyricAcid
VampyricAcid

veteran
Location: My House
Member Since: 27th Jun 2005
Total posts: 1286
Posted:OK drawing a line under this whole episode so we can get on with our lives,


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


there ya go that's the line, if you don't like his comments ignor him, even press his ignor button, but we have heard all the ranting we need to, and its getting repetative, yes he upset a lot of people, yes he is just plain wrong.....but we don't need to hear it again, we are all forgiving kind people, and lets just move on and hope he doesn't come back smile


So, Maori people and Poi eh? what is their reaction?


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Are You Sniffing My Mitten?

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:--------------------------------------------------------------

ditto clap

To repeat myself: If Maori disapprove of what we are doing, or worse see it as an offence to their heratage and culture, we need to reconsider, whether we are legible to call it "Poi" and "Poi-spinning"... - just out of respect... shrug


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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psycotic_furby
psycotic_furby

Hehe, you said 'Member'
Location: Lydiate, nr Liverpool
Member Since: 25th Mar 2005
Total posts: 105
Posted:So what would be call it instead?

I'm not sure if I agree that us westerners have stolen poi for our own nefarious deeds, nor necessarily that it's a faddy thing. Yes many people who spin poi do it in nightclubs, and/or for fame and glory, but for instance the people on this lovely site tend to take something more from it than just "Ooh, cool spinny moves! Everyone will look at me!"

I don't think anyone would deny the roots of poi are deeply within the Maori community, but is what we do now somehow lesser than their version? I get the impression that 'our' poi is seen as a bastardised version, and therefore less valid by some people on this forum. Would anyone agree with that POV?


Eww, Liza Minelli...

The communists gave my mother a job, teaching sculpture to limbless children.

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FireByNite
FireByNite

Are you up for it??
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 8th Dec 2004
Total posts: 349
Posted:I think it's not so much a "bastardized version" but more 2 different art forms.
As said previously I see how how some of them can get their knickers in a twist over it, I don't agree with the people who have that attitude though.

Maybe it started out like that, but the indigineous people that I have spoken with, have ended up in interesting discussion about the differences and similarities between the 2 art forms.


Are you up for it?
wink;)

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: FireByNite


I think it's not so much a "bastardized version" but more 2 different art forms.



Right, the "original standardized art form" that the Maori do and the form that took whatever parts of that that interested them and threw away all the tradition, religion, and ceremony that they didn't feel like keeping and instead added whatever the heck they felt like would get them the most attention and hot chicks.

But that's not bastardizing right?

wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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FireByNite
FireByNite

Are you up for it??
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 8th Dec 2004
Total posts: 349
Posted:Fair point biggrin

Are you up for it?
wink;)

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Kathain_Bowen
Kathain_Bowen

Good Ol' Yarn For Hair
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Member Since: 24th Jan 2006
Total posts: 422
Posted: Written by: NYC


Right, the "original standardized art form" that the Maori do and the form that took whatever parts of that that interested them and threw away all the tradition, religion, and ceremony that they didn't feel like keeping and instead added whatever the heck they felt like would get them the most attention and hot chicks.

But that's not bastardizing right?

wink



.... hrm.... I'm not sure I would say that all non-Maori poi spinners do it to attract chicks.

While I'm woman enough to admit there are some hot chicks in the world, I still like guys, too! Sorry all you lasses of HoP, but I don't think I could date a woman exclusively. But I would probably buy you ladies a round. beerchug


"So long and thanks for all the fish."

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:The version of 'poi' done by the majority of spinners worldwide bears only passing resemblance to trad Maori poi.



The vast development in technique, moves and styles that has resulted in the art we practise, has been done by non-Maori spinners.



Suppose Maori culture had never existed- does anyone seriously think that spinning wouldn't either? (albeit, called something other than 'poi').



I recall when poi was appearing/developing over here in the UK, there was some debate over whether it should be called 'poi', or something completely different, like 'spinning' or 'twirling'.



'Poi' seems to have won out, possibly the motive being based on respecting the fact that (arguably) it's origins lay with the Maoris.



IMO, we should be pretty proud of having developed this art to the stage it is at now and, if some trad Maoris have a problem with the type of spinning I do (seeing it as 'basterdised etc) then, it is indeed their problem, not mine.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Kathain_Bowen
Kathain_Bowen

Good Ol' Yarn For Hair
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Member Since: 24th Jan 2006
Total posts: 422
Posted: Written by: onewheeldave


if some trad Maoris have a problem with the type of spinning I do (seeing it as 'basterdised etc) then, it is indeed their problem, not mine.



.... thank you for saying what I was trying to say so well (I said something along the lines of really not giving a damn, but you actually put it in the right sentiment). You have a gift with words, OWD. hug


"So long and thanks for all the fish."

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BansheeCat
veteran
Location: lost
Member Since: 29th Jul 2005
Total posts: 1247
Posted:oh, I just remembered, there is a vid of Nick and Dan spinning with a young Maori woman, traditional poi...

www.playpoi.com, or meenik's youtube


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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FireNix
FireNix

old hand
Location: India/Bristol
Member Since: 4th Apr 2001
Total posts: 904
Posted:Written by: AlbertaBoy


I have no experience with the Maori people personally, but I have had friends go down to New Zealand. They have told me that the Maori people are barbarians. Very uncivilized people. If that is true, you can't expect them to have an open mind to anything really, so I guess naturally they would not be able to think logically about variations of their own poi, and other people participating in what they see as theirs.

Well true - But so is the Maori womans response to the orginal poster - although add Sexist also. I dont hear any diatribes against her. I find it confusing that people wont fully diss minorities (especially indeginous ones that have certainly had historical atroctites occur at Euro-conquistadors hands), if they are prejudice. But are right ready to jump on the Politically correct bandwagon, if theres a slight against the minority. Im all for equality guys no more rabble rousing.
Ease off people. Yes its an ignorant post. He did say he had never been, which is an admition of ignorance - and for sure that doesnt excuse a post such as that.
However he is a newbie, doesnt really need abuse from you guys and maybe would like the oppurtunity to defend himself. (Thats my way of saying I would retract your post before you alienate yourself to the community) Wether he owes 'HOP' and appology - I think thats going abit far
Slight change of tilt on original post.
Its an interesting post and tilt though
Peas


Feel the Flame
Phirenix

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:dizzypheonix, this one comes up every now and again, and the only people that can really answer your question are Maoris. Id just like to say that in the past the Maoris who have made contributions to HOP have been very generous with their cultural information. Try a search!



As far as bastardization goes (not a good term, btw) Id just like to point out that Maoris have been selling poi to tourists for decades. Therefore, its more than likely that somewhere along the line the tourists will start using poi.



psycotic_furby asked So what would be call it instead?



Well I heard about fire chains, and glowsticking way before I ever heard about poi.



Cheers folks smile



PS: Fire clubs have been around for at least 150 yrs, and most of the basic moves we use for poi come from club swinging.

EDITED_BY: Stone (1176352826)


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:Maori culture is fabulous

Maori Legends are beautiful

Maori people rock smile

New Zealand is my favourite place in the whole world. There is tension between maori and europeans but its the only place i've ever been where both sides discuss the problems, agree to things, apologise for the past. etc etc.

Maori aren't barbarians. They are warriors. They had to be 'double hard bastards' to make the voyage over here, and then to survive here, resist the european invasion and so on. That lives on in their culture.

Maori traditions are very precise, very specific. One person does a certain thing, the other person does something in return. If either one doesn't follow tradition it can be taken as an insult.

I think the original problem in the first post was that a Maori took offense to someone spinning western style poi on Witangi Day. I can understand this. Witangi Day is tense over here. Lots of emotions. It probably was disrespectful on that day in that place. I don't know tho, i wasn't there.

Overall i doubt maori people as a whole mind if we do something similar to them. From their point of view our poi style sucks. We don't understand it. We can't communicate stories with them.

It's just different, and i think maori people are pretty accepting of peoples differences.

m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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DarkFyre
DarkFyre

HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
Location: Palmerston North
Member Since: 4th Nov 2005
Total posts: 1965
Posted:yes our poi is bastardised but the emphisis is more to the performance aspect of modern poi as opposed to the cultural roots of poi within maori culture, not to say that there isn't a culture that is associated with modern poi.

While some maori frown upon the circus influence that poi has seen, it is an adaptation of there art not a dissregard for it and as i hinted towards earlier there are things that have been lost in the transition but the art has also grown a tremendous amount with the influence of different cultures.

And for anbody that is torn by the name 'poi' since it has grown into a new entity, please remember that the roots of this art are from maori poi hell who do you think came up with a 3bt weave, The maori thats who and evry spiner (maori or otherwise) has to admit that it is and always will be the cornerstone of both trains of thought


May my balls of fire set your balls on fire devil

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