Forums > Social Discussion > The Effects of Free Performing
Login/Join to ParticipateMember
52 posts
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
52 posts
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posted:
Hey all,
I would like to make a thread to inform everyone on the firetwirling industry that is being taken advantage of by many corperate bodies. Our art is no different than painting or film makers. We have a skill that is available to the community and we are being taken advantage of because of the lack of information that is out there for performers. Thats why i am writting this thread and need everyone to read this and post any information that i have left out. I am going to focus on 2 issues this poses for the future of fire twirling.
1. When someone performs for free it takes away business from the professional performers that spend their days perfecting their skills and routines.
2. Because most people who do work for free are amateurs, the quality of the performance is not as good as it would be from a professional. The corportations usually dont use firetwirlers again because there wasnt a good response from the crowd. And therefore more business is lost for professional performers.
So we need to stand up against the corporations who make millions of dollars each year and take advantage of our unorganised artform. They will tell you that they are doing you a favour and trying to give you 'experience', but all they want is free entertainment. Next time you are approached to perform for free, tell them that you will not do it. Tell them that you should be payed for your services and will not be taken advantage of. It is the for the good of the industry.
Now im sure there are alot of people out there that think im like a crazy 'twirling nazi'. But believe me, fire twirling has a great future for some people and in the future i wish to be one of those people. Would you paint a picture for a cafe for free? It is the same concept.
Please invite everyone to read and write in this thread. This is an important discussion for our industry.
Jai.
Hey all,
I would like to make a thread to inform everyone on the firetwirling industry that is being taken advantage of by many corperate bodies. Our art is no different than painting or film makers. We have a skill that is available to the community and we are being taken advantage of because of the lack of information that is out there for performers. Thats why i am writting this thread and need everyone to read this and post any information that i have left out. I am going to focus on 2 issues this poses for the future of fire twirling.
1. When someone performs for free it takes away business from the professional performers that spend their days perfecting their skills and routines.
2. Because most people who do work for free are amateurs, the quality of the performance is not as good as it would be from a professional. The corportations usually dont use firetwirlers again because there wasnt a good response from the crowd. And therefore more business is lost for professional performers.
So we need to stand up against the corporations who make millions of dollars each year and take advantage of our unorganised artform. They will tell you that they are doing you a favour and trying to give you 'experience', but all they want is free entertainment. Next time you are approached to perform for free, tell them that you will not do it. Tell them that you should be payed for your services and will not be taken advantage of. It is the for the good of the industry.
Now im sure there are alot of people out there that think im like a crazy 'twirling nazi'. But believe me, fire twirling has a great future for some people and in the future i wish to be one of those people. Would you paint a picture for a cafe for free? It is the same concept.
Please invite everyone to read and write in this thread. This is an important discussion for our industry.
Jai.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
My above post seemed a bit harsh cuz I was writing it quickly.
Sprinkle a few
s 
s and 
s in it or y'all will think I'm cranky again.
My above post seemed a bit harsh cuz I was writing it quickly.
Sprinkle a few
s s and s in it or y'all will think I'm cranky again. Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
nice pele, thanks. agreed.
NYC
nice pele, thanks. agreed.
NYC
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
... which BTW is making the contract fully legal and you can drag the organiser to court if he's not willing to pay the rest.
for nicely puttin git together, onc emore
Guess nobody is gonna yell, because everybody knows that this doesn't mean that there aren't any
Let me give you one example
Written by: Pele
4. Worth. You determine your show is actually worth and you have an expectation to receive at least that much. BTW, I'd like to add that it is not unreasonable to request that you receive a percentage of the payment upfront as a deposit.
... which BTW is making the contract fully legal and you can drag the organiser to court if he's not willing to pay the rest.
for nicely puttin git together, onc emore Written by: NYC
The part where y'all are gonna yell at me is where I'm suggesting that I haven't seen enough fire troupes that are professional enough to warrant the enitre industry to gain respect.
Guess nobody is gonna yell, because everybody knows that this doesn't mean that there aren't any
Let me give you one example
the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I wrote it twice for folks like you. I even used caps.
Maybe I should have written it three times.
Written by: NYC
I'm not saying that's the rule, but it's certainly present. I OBVIOUSLY know many very professional and organized fire troupes. [I OBVIOUSLY know many very professional and organized fire troupes for those who missed it the first time.]
I wrote it twice for folks like you. I even used caps.
Maybe I should have written it three times.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Good Ol' Yarn For Hair
422 posts
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
422 posts
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posted:
Alas, I would love to be your apprentice, but I don't think my car would make it to Victoria from the Jersey shore. I put a lot of faith in the Brave Little Toaster, but I have serious doubts my little Nissan would survive that long of a drive.
Written by: stout
Kathain,,are you looking for an apprenticeship? I give you special price on tuition, just for you pretty lady...
Alas, I would love to be your apprentice, but I don't think my car would make it to Victoria from the Jersey shore. I put a lot of faith in the Brave Little Toaster, but I have serious doubts my little Nissan would survive that long of a drive.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
:nods: @ NYC
you know why dont you?
cos they're all [censored] hippies! Sotner washter barstraights.
tho actually tho ive seen a fair few really bad fire acts, I dont actually see them getting gigs very much.
Tho I have watched shows, hand to my face, waiting to rush in and put someone out and wispering *oh my god* under my breath all the way through...
but to be fair ive had the same reactions watching cover bands down the local pub...
T
:nods: @ NYC
you know why dont you?
cos they're all [censored] hippies! Sotner washter barstraights.
tho actually tho ive seen a fair few really bad fire acts, I dont actually see them getting gigs very much.
Tho I have watched shows, hand to my face, waiting to rush in and put someone out and wispering *oh my god* under my breath all the way through...
but to be fair ive had the same reactions watching cover bands down the local pub...
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
What the heck is a barstraight? Is that like a straight bar? Because we don't have those here. Only gay 'bars' and then just 'bars' which I guess are straight by default but I don't think many would advertise as such.
And yes, bad coverbands are about the level I think we're talking about.
What the heck is a barstraight? Is that like a straight bar? Because we don't have those here. Only gay 'bars' and then just 'bars' which I guess are straight by default but I don't think many would advertise as such.
And yes, bad coverbands are about the level I think we're talking about.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
so you had no problem with 'sotner washter' but you didnt get barstraights?
how about barstarts?
T
so you had no problem with 'sotner washter' but you didnt get barstraights?
how about barstarts?
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Yeah, I got no clue what you're talking about.
Would it help if I said it with a Sean Connery Accent?
Bahshhhtards.
Yeah, I got no clue what you're talking about.
Would it help if I said it with a Sean Connery Accent?
Bahshhhtards.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
NYC: repeating things three times make them clearer
especially when the eyes get tired and the vision is blurred 
But maybe you are just trying to cover it up (like me with my cont hidden bigot intolerance) and in fact you don't really think there are any professional acts outta there...
NYC: repeating things three times make them clearer
especially when the eyes get tired and the vision is blurred But maybe you are just trying to cover it up (like me with my cont hidden bigot intolerance) and in fact you don't really think there are any professional acts outta there... the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
how about he day you put fire poi in the hands of that same footballer and ask him to perform a professional show? I bet you know the basics of football your just not as good I bet an audience would notice someone tangling and dropping.
demand and supply are not justificaion for a governing body. any action with a large number of pracitioners can benefit from an organisational body.
One question however is should fire performers have a regulating body OR should those performers fall into the catagories of the props they are using:
for example International Juggling Association
should jugglers fall into a "Fire" association if using fire or should this organisaion incorporate jugglers using fire?
(i know we are talking about spinning generally but the borders DO blur a certain amount)
Written by: NYCWritten by: MynciWritten by: NYC
I do not believe that more than 1% of the firespinning community fits into category 3. I do not believe that such things as unions and self regulation make any sense in an industry that is 99% hobbyists.
What like the Football association or the Governing bodies of Sport fishing?
The day that a pro football team lets their star player go and says "NYC, we'll let you play on our team because we don't think the audience will be able to notice" is the day that pro footballers don't deserve a union.
how about he day you put fire poi in the hands of that same footballer and ask him to perform a professional show? I bet you know the basics of football your just not as good I bet an audience would notice someone tangling and dropping.
demand and supply are not justificaion for a governing body. any action with a large number of pracitioners can benefit from an organisational body.
One question however is should fire performers have a regulating body OR should those performers fall into the catagories of the props they are using:
for example International Juggling Association
should jugglers fall into a "Fire" association if using fire or should this organisaion incorporate jugglers using fire?
(i know we are talking about spinning generally but the borders DO blur a certain amount)
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I urge you to start the "union of couch sitters." I'll bet more people sit on their couches than do any of the jobs we're listing above. Demand that nobody sit on a couch unless they're being paid $150 a night (otherwise it's unfair to those who charge right?) Set governing rules on how you can and can't sit on a couch safely. My buddy lets her kids jump on the couch... that's clearly more dangerous than letting them just sit there, we'll need rules for kids as well.
And just before you say that this example is silly let me remind you that I'd RATHER spin fire than sit on my couch.
The IJA is a perfect example of something that ISN'T a regulatory body of professionals. "Our members range from top professionals to avid hobbyists and enthusiastic beginners."
If we're talking about a club where pros, hobbyists and beginners can hang out then we've got one. It's called HoP and it's the premier neo-poi center in the planet.
If you want to form an organization that will tell me that I can't perform unless I charge then you're out of your juristiction. IJA doesn't do that, neither should anyone else.
Written by: Mynci
demand and supply are not justificaion for a governing body. any action with a large number of pracitioners can benefit from an organisational body.
I urge you to start the "union of couch sitters." I'll bet more people sit on their couches than do any of the jobs we're listing above. Demand that nobody sit on a couch unless they're being paid $150 a night (otherwise it's unfair to those who charge right?) Set governing rules on how you can and can't sit on a couch safely. My buddy lets her kids jump on the couch... that's clearly more dangerous than letting them just sit there, we'll need rules for kids as well.
And just before you say that this example is silly let me remind you that I'd RATHER spin fire than sit on my couch.
The IJA is a perfect example of something that ISN'T a regulatory body of professionals. "Our members range from top professionals to avid hobbyists and enthusiastic beginners."
If we're talking about a club where pros, hobbyists and beginners can hang out then we've got one. It's called HoP and it's the premier neo-poi center in the planet.
If you want to form an organization that will tell me that I can't perform unless I charge then you're out of your juristiction. IJA doesn't do that, neither should anyone else.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Member
52 posts
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
52 posts
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posted:
Yas, im starting to see the point in your strange logic NYC. he he he.
But when i started this post i never actually thought any union would come out of it, or any group or anything like that. I am just trying to make people aware of the problems that are being raised by these sort of things. Since opening this thread 1031 people have viewed it. Now 1031 more people know about this problem than before we started this discussion.
I also love to get other peoples opinions on things. Some people have raised some very persuasive points, that have opened my mind up to other reasons on both sides of the argument.
I just hope that next time someone gets offered a job to perform free, that they think twice about what they might be doing to their friends.
NYC, when you do start up that 'union of couch sitters' i want to be in it. I always get a sore back and would love some tips.
Keep it Smurfed.
Jai.
Yas, im starting to see the point in your strange logic NYC. he he he.
But when i started this post i never actually thought any union would come out of it, or any group or anything like that. I am just trying to make people aware of the problems that are being raised by these sort of things. Since opening this thread 1031 people have viewed it. Now 1031 more people know about this problem than before we started this discussion.
I also love to get other peoples opinions on things. Some people have raised some very persuasive points, that have opened my mind up to other reasons on both sides of the argument.
I just hope that next time someone gets offered a job to perform free, that they think twice about what they might be doing to their friends.
NYC, when you do start up that 'union of couch sitters' i want to be in it.
I always get a sore back and would love some tips.Keep it Smurfed.
Jai.
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Hate to disappoint you about the real number of people who viewed this thread, Jai - *reconsiders*
Have a nice day
Hate to disappoint you about the real number of people who viewed this thread, Jai - *reconsiders*
Have a nice day
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Member
52 posts
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
52 posts
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posted:
well as long as there are a few people out that understand a little bit more, im happy. maybe they will tell their friends, who will tell their friends.
well as long as there are a few people out that understand a little bit more, im happy. maybe they will tell their friends, who will tell their friends.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
Great thread, I'm really glad you started it and i've got no doubts whatsoever that, as a direct result, a lot of people have put in some thought as a result.
The number of people is not that important, each reader has their own network of friends/collegues and the discussion spreads.
Personally, i 've benefitted because it's led to me putting in a lot of thought on these issues- obviously i've put a lot of thought into it in the past as well, but it's good to do so in the context of seeing opposing views and dealing with them.
I happen to be preparing for a small fire gig later this week and, on the site visit/dialogue with the employer (a community organisation) my experiences on this thread definitly influenced that.
Written by: Jai
Yas, im starting to see the point in your strange logic NYC. he he he.
But when i started this post i never actually thought any union would come out of it, or any group or anything like that. I am just trying to make people aware of the problems that are being raised by these sort of things. Since opening this thread 1031 people have viewed it. Now 1031 more people know about this problem than before we started this discussion.
I also love to get other peoples opinions on things. Some people have raised some very persuasive points, that have opened my mind up to other reasons on both sides of the argument.
I just hope that next time someone gets offered a job to perform free, that they think twice about what they might be doing to their friends.
NYC, when you do start up that 'union of couch sitters' i want to be in it.
Keep it Smurfed.
Jai.
Great thread, I'm really glad you started it and i've got no doubts whatsoever that, as a direct result, a lot of people have put in some thought as a result.
The number of people is not that important, each reader has their own network of friends/collegues and the discussion spreads.
Personally, i 've benefitted because it's led to me putting in a lot of thought on these issues- obviously i've put a lot of thought into it in the past as well, but it's good to do so in the context of seeing opposing views and dealing with them.
I happen to be preparing for a small fire gig later this week and, on the site visit/dialogue with the employer (a community organisation) my experiences on this thread definitly influenced that.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
There are an unbelievable amount of lurkers on HoP. 1099 views on this thread. Maybe 10 of them are mine. Same for the 20 or so who posted. That leaves 900 views of people who didn't post.
I keep running into lurkers at parties and festivals. I forget that those of us who post are celebreties to the lurkers. I just thought I was bored at work.
Written by: FireTom
Hate to disappoint you about the real number of people who viewed this thread, Jai - *reconsiders*
Have a nice day
There are an unbelievable amount of lurkers on HoP. 1099 views on this thread. Maybe 10 of them are mine. Same for the 20 or so who posted. That leaves 900 views of people who didn't post.
I keep running into lurkers at parties and festivals. I forget that those of us who post are celebreties to the lurkers. I just thought I was bored at work.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
I thought views were based on logged in users? Are anonymous lurkers redirected from google also counted?
I thought views were based on logged in users? Are anonymous lurkers redirected from google also counted?
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Logged in users can still lurk.
There's like a billion people who post 0 or 1 times.
You need to be logged in just to view some forums.
Logged in users can still lurk.
There's like a billion people who post 0 or 1 times.
You need to be logged in just to view some forums.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
not this one thou.
not this one thou.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
"5 registered and 17 anonymous users are browsing this forum."
No, not this one.
Sorry, why does that matter? My point was that there are still hundreds of lurkers.
"5 registered and 17 anonymous users are browsing this forum."
No, not this one.
Sorry, why does that matter? My point was that there are still hundreds of lurkers.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
I was just wondering if it was 1000 logged in views, with millions and squillions more anonymous views, or just 1000 views, period.
I was just wondering if it was 1000 logged in views, with millions and squillions more anonymous views, or just 1000 views, period.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
BRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
Posted:
Post deleted by Richee
Post deleted by Richee
POI THEO(R)IST
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
Jai, out of curiosity, just where are you, right now in your spinning career? Are you just starting out? or have you been established for a while ? The reason I'm asking is I'm wondering just where you fit into my next question.
How many fire performers do you estimate are actively seeking work in Melbourne, and is this problem of free performers an actual barrier to newbies trying to break into these arts, or is the whole topic more of an academic exercise.
Reason, I'm asking is that I live in a city that's about one tenth the size of Melbourne, and I can count the amount of active spinners who are interested in working, on my fingers. I'm assuming things are alot different down there, Am I correct ?
Jai, out of curiosity, just where are you, right now in your spinning career? Are you just starting out? or have you been established for a while ? The reason I'm asking is I'm wondering just where you fit into my next question.
How many fire performers do you estimate are actively seeking work in Melbourne, and is this problem of free performers an actual barrier to newbies trying to break into these arts, or is the whole topic more of an academic exercise.
Reason, I'm asking is that I live in a city that's about one tenth the size of Melbourne, and I can count the amount of active spinners who are interested in working, on my fingers. I'm assuming things are alot different down there, Am I correct ?
Member
52 posts
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
52 posts
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posted:
Hmmm, not exactly. I have performed before on a professinal basis when i was living on the Gold Coast, except i was also teaching workshops. I myself have not tried promoting myself since i have been in Melbourne because of other commitments. Truthfully i am lucky to get out and spin once a week because of those other commitments.
Well it is an academic exercise, to the point of trying to teach people that unless under the right circumstances performing for free is a bad thing. If someone is trying to break into the market, performing for free is bad for them as well and this thread now offers way for them to become more professional. I love to see people turning their passions into work.
I dont know that many people who perform in Melbourne professionally. I am just appauled at the way that fire performers at treated, not everyone knows about this issues and i just wanted a discussion.
I hope i havnt rubbed anyone the wrong way with this thread. If so im sorry.
Much love all.
Jai.
Hmmm, not exactly. I have performed before on a professinal basis when i was living on the Gold Coast, except i was also teaching workshops. I myself have not tried promoting myself since i have been in Melbourne because of other commitments. Truthfully i am lucky to get out and spin once a week because of those other commitments.
Well it is an academic exercise, to the point of trying to teach people that unless under the right circumstances performing for free is a bad thing. If someone is trying to break into the market, performing for free is bad for them as well and this thread now offers way for them to become more professional. I love to see people turning their passions into work.
I dont know that many people who perform in Melbourne professionally. I am just appauled at the way that fire performers at treated, not everyone knows about this issues and i just wanted a discussion.
I hope i havnt rubbed anyone the wrong way with this thread. If so im sorry.
Much love all.
Jai.
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
OK, the reason I was asking if it was more academic than practical is mainly because when someone makes the transition from hobbiest to professional, things change. From an academic perspective, it's possible to condemn those who who work for free however, from a practical standpoint, just what do you expect these guys to do in order to build up a marketable resume? That's why I was suggesting apprenticeships as a possible solution to a real world issue.
When one makes this transition, the terms change, and it's up to the individual to realize, and deal with it. those that don't, or simply refuse to, usually fail. All I'm suggesting is that those who are willing to spin for free are dealing with those changes in terms in the only way that they practically can.
I'm not rubbed the wrong way at all, I just like exploring solutions to problems, that's all.
Btw, I'm one of those free performers, but not in the context of this thread. See, I belong to a professional group however I don't take any money for myself, I simply kick my profits back into the group. I have several reasons for doing this, but the main one stems from my not wanting to spend the time working on getting gigs and dealing with the logistics, I just want to show up for rehearsals and shows, and have my costumes worked out for me. It's a laziness thing, and at certain times of the year I can't afford the time either.
I had to miss both the San Fransisco fire festival and Burning Man this year, along with a few other fun, out of town shows due to dealing with the terms of self employment in another field ( artist )
OK, the reason I was asking if it was more academic than practical is mainly because when someone makes the transition from hobbiest to professional, things change. From an academic perspective, it's possible to condemn those who who work for free however, from a practical standpoint, just what do you expect these guys to do in order to build up a marketable resume? That's why I was suggesting apprenticeships as a possible solution to a real world issue.
When one makes this transition, the terms change, and it's up to the individual to realize, and deal with it. those that don't, or simply refuse to, usually fail. All I'm suggesting is that those who are willing to spin for free are dealing with those changes in terms in the only way that they practically can.
I'm not rubbed the wrong way at all, I just like exploring solutions to problems, that's all.
Btw, I'm one of those free performers, but not in the context of this thread. See, I belong to a professional group however I don't take any money for myself, I simply kick my profits back into the group. I have several reasons for doing this, but the main one stems from my not wanting to spend the time working on getting gigs and dealing with the logistics, I just want to show up for rehearsals and shows, and have my costumes worked out for me. It's a laziness thing, and at certain times of the year I can't afford the time either.
I had to miss both the San Fransisco fire festival and Burning Man this year, along with a few other fun, out of town shows
due to dealing with the terms of self employment in another field ( artist ) Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Well Stout - that's a completely different thing, isn't it?
If your voluntarily performing as a PART of an otherwise professional troupe... 
I really appreciate this thread, Jai - got :spanked: much for starting the same discussion on another board...
Keep it up and don't be "sorry" - it's a waste of time and energy, really.
Well Stout - that's a completely different thing, isn't it?
If your voluntarily performing as a PART of an otherwise professional troupe... I really appreciate this thread, Jai
- got :spanked: much for starting the same discussion on another board... Keep it up and don't be "sorry" - it's a waste of time and energy, really.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
SILVER Member
Hitman
985 posts
Location: Gloucester England
Hitman
985 posts
Location: Gloucester England
Posted:
I am just starting in the pro bit running workshops and we have a fire group of intermedate spinners some on hop others not.
My question is for a night of 2 hours spinning how much could i charge if its a proper charographed act. I just want a rough estermate so i can say we want this much money at least.
In Gloucester i can count the number of spinners in general on two hands its that bad i am yet to seee a profesional one performing.
Mike
I am just starting in the pro bit running workshops and we have a fire group of intermedate spinners some on hop others not.
My question is for a night of 2 hours spinning how much could i charge if its a proper charographed act. I just want a rough estermate so i can say we want this much money at least.
In Gloucester i can count the number of spinners in general on two hands its that bad i am yet to seee a profesional one performing.
Mike
he he i am mike the amazing gloscircus person who is mike.
Officaly an exception to the Poi Boys are Girls Thing
Member
52 posts
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
52 posts
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posted:
Stout, you still charge money for your services and you are putting them straight back into the fire twirling community. That is great!
I understand some people who start off and do a few free shows to get a name in the community, but most people who do the free shows are people who dont wish to take it further with fire twirling.
Mike, I just had this conversation with my old room mate from the Gold Coast. Dont put the price to high, or else you might not get many people showing up. If 10 people from up at $10 it is better than 3 people showing up for $20. You could do what some other people have done. By donation. Say, whatever you feel the lesson was worth. You can tell them a usuall donation if you like but i really like that idea. It really shows people how much you like something. Like the other day i went to a vegetarian restaurant. Lentil as Anything. They are a donation based restaurant. I really loved the food and gave them $40 because thats what i thought my meal was worth. Give from the heart is what i always say.
Stout, you still charge money for your services and you are putting them straight back into the fire twirling community. That is great!
I understand some people who start off and do a few free shows to get a name in the community, but most people who do the free shows are people who dont wish to take it further with fire twirling.
Mike, I just had this conversation with my old room mate from the Gold Coast. Dont put the price to high, or else you might not get many people showing up. If 10 people from up at $10 it is better than 3 people showing up for $20. You could do what some other people have done. By donation. Say, whatever you feel the lesson was worth. You can tell them a usuall donation if you like but i really like that idea. It really shows people how much you like something. Like the other day i went to a vegetarian restaurant. Lentil as Anything. They are a donation based restaurant. I really loved the food and gave them $40 because thats what i thought my meal was worth. Give from the heart is what i always say.
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
Fair due's NYC my example was a bit off , however my reasoning I feel was sound. One of my biggest fears with this great thing we all call spinning is it is free and we can express it in our own ways pushing it's limits onwards.
What I DON'T want is a shieldless community for when (and it has happened once) that big accident happens that is splashed all over the media and the witless government of which ever nation it is act like them all and cluelessly react but creating a legislation that will harm the community without getting all the facts.
We are already getting pressure from our local council because the community is getting so popular.. hell we have been told that we ARE NOT ALLOWED to spin on the local beach because there are too many of us. and have been restricted to an area which is rapidly appearing more unsafe ever time I go due to overhanging trees instead of a place with copious amounts of water and sand which are ideal for puting out a fire. (rant over)
i know that was a bit sorry. but I feel it is part of the responsibility of the experienced to help teach those who are new for the benefit of all (including teaching them about how free spinning could damage the incomes of the proffessionals who use it as a sole source of income... that got it back on track)
P.s. this thread was a great idea
Fair due's NYC my example was a bit off
, however my reasoning I feel was sound. One of my biggest fears with this great thing we all call spinning is it is free and we can express it in our own ways pushing it's limits onwards. What I DON'T want is a shieldless community for when (and it has happened once) that big accident happens that is splashed all over the media and the witless government of which ever nation it is act like them all and cluelessly react but creating a legislation that will harm the community without getting all the facts.
We are already getting pressure from our local council because the community is getting so popular.. hell we have been told that we ARE NOT ALLOWED to spin on the local beach because there are too many of us. and have been restricted to an area which is rapidly appearing more unsafe ever time I go due to overhanging trees instead of a place with copious amounts of water and sand which are ideal for puting out a fire. (rant over)
i know that was a bit
sorry. but I feel it is part of the responsibility of the experienced to help teach those who are new for the benefit of all (including teaching them about how free spinning could damage the incomes of the proffessionals who use it as a sole source of income... that got it back on track)P.s. this thread was a great idea
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
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