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Forums > Help! > Driving offences & disqualifications

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PyroWill
PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines
Member Since: 4th Aug 2004
Total posts: 4437
Posted:Just got in to find two letters on my doormat, opened them and they've scared the hell out of me!

I have been given two separate speeding fines, all within the space of 15 minutes! at one point I was caught going 35mph in a 30mph zone, and another I was going 48mph in a 40mph zone one was at 11:29am, the other at 11:44am. I've always tried to be a careful driver, now I'm scared they are gonna take my license away considering each speeding fine has 3 points on it and within two years of getting your license if you get 6 points I think you are/can be disqualified.

Does anyone know if there is anyway not to be disqualified, has anyone been in a similar situation? Would the fact that I have had a clean slate until these 15 minutes of hell? Does the excess of speed at all matter? Really worried!


An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:Damn man, that sucks! When was this 15 minutes?

I think you should drive (SLOWLY) over to mine so we can go out tonight... wink


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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PyroWill
PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines
Member Since: 4th Aug 2004
Total posts: 4437
Posted:On the 29 of april, would have been the day I've gone to Leeds, I've just read that I can appeal (although i dont know how successful that will be). The first offence is on a road I use about 3 times a day and have never sped on it, maybe if I pointed that out to them....i dont know.

Does anyone have any ideas?


An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:do you know if they have images of you driving the car (can you tell from the speed camera photo they should have included with the letter)?

i managed to evade a ban by not incriminating myself when they requested me to.

the image from the camera was unclear and it was not possible to tell who was driving the car.

the normal procedure with a camera speeding fine is they send you a letter saying your car was caught on camera speeding, then they ask you to confirm who was driving.

i sent that back with the line "i cannot provide this information at this time" since i couldn't recall if i was driving the car that day, but didn't want to hamper or delay their investigation ubbangel

in my case, i was doing more than double the speed limit redface

but they never wrote back.

see, they can't prosecute you if they can't prove it was you driving the car smile


however, if you are the only driver named on your insurance, they may push you and threaten a summons - if you are sure they have no evidence, they can't win in court.

you being the only named driver is circumstantial and is not enough to charghe you with the offence.

i take no legal responsibilty if you decide to go for my route though! wink


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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PyroWill
PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines
Member Since: 4th Aug 2004
Total posts: 4437
Posted:Well upon closer inspectionof the letters I'm quite confused.

Firstly the letters are different colours, ones yellow saying at 11:29pm was caught speeding etc, the second letter (which was actually dated as being sent a day before they sent a notice about the first offence) is white. There is also a difference in the wordings of the letters. The yellow one with the 35mph simply says please confirm who was driving etc

The second letter (the white one with the 48mph one) says you were caught, please send your license for the endorsement to be printed on it and a 60 fine.

Im confused as to why the other one witht he smaller (5mph excess) limit doesnt ask for money, and if its procdeure to get me to confirm it was me first then how come the second letters doesnt ask that and is asking me for a fine straight way, confusing


An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:citizens advice is a wonderful place....and doesn't have incriminating come backs wink

If you respond they won't care if you drive within the limits on that road daily.

There is a 28 day limit, if you haven't heard from them within 28 days of the offence they can't prosicute you, and you never got that letter, right wink


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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steaks
steaks

former manc tour guide
Location: Manchester
Member Since: 21st Dec 2005
Total posts: 1909
Posted:The CAB, as Dunc said can be quite helpful, as can finding a local solicitor, most usual ofer a free 30 min consultation for you to discus your options.
I thought the limit for points was 9 instead of 12 for your first two years, but it was almost 3 since I passed, so I could be wrong on that one.

Either way best of luck to you Will hug


Owned by the lovely SNOOPoi
Owner of Clarence_Quack

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Kieron
Member

Member Since: 20th Jul 2005
Total posts: 232
Posted:"Six points and lose your licence!



If you have just passed your first driving test, congratulations! But you must remember you are "on probation" for the first two years. If you clock up six or more penalty points during that time you will lose your licence and go back to being a learner. You will have to reapply for a provisional licence and take both the theory and the practical driving test all over again."



"If you accept a Fixed Penalty Notice you can't appeal."



http://www.thinkroadsafety.gov.uk/advice/newdrivers01.htm
br>


So you need to get out of at least one of them, I believe the Fixed Penalty Notice would be the one that instantly asks for money however I don't know that...just a guess.

EDITED_BY: Kieron (1147243879)


"I'm quite good at darts, though i often miss" - Kylie

"I'm not a bad driver, I just panic when theres other cars around" - Sarah

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misscorinthian
misscorinthian

old hand
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 27th Sep 2005
Total posts: 784
Posted:I notice that "failure to identify the driver of a vehicle" is also an offence which will get you 3 points- so best not to try that one.

I got a fixed penalty for doing 55mph on a 50mph stretch of motorway. They sent a form to my bloke first asking to identify the driver, and then one to me to confirm that I was driving. After that they sent me out the letter requesting the 60- but still said lots of scary stuff about possibly taking me to court....

I never got any photos with the letters though...

It does sound a bit odd that the letters were so different- why don't they ask you who was driving for the second one? I would enquire about that before I signed any acceptance- assuming there was time to do so.

Anyways good luck with it mate, these people are a$$holes.


XLenX

Devoted although mostly absent owner of the 1, the original... Asena

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted: Written by: misscorinthian


I notice that "failure to identify the driver of a vehicle" is also an offence which will get you 3 points- so best not to try that one.



that's why if you do ever try to get out of a fine by delaying self-convicting evidence, you must only reply with the line worded as i quoted it above.

that line intentionally states that you are not refusing to supply the information, rather that you can't do it right now for some reason (which you can easily make up later).

they *have* to take you to court to convict you on the 'three points for failing to supply information' offence and it is *not* the same offence as failing to disclose evidence (which is what it would be if you refused to give the same information when asked to in court).

besides, its pretty damn hard for them to prove that you knew who was driving the car.

unless of course it can't possibly have been anyone other than yourself, which is really what that penalty is all about - its a threat to try and make you swallow the penalty they're trying to get you to admit to in advance: "if you don't own up to this, we'll take you to court and you'll get six points rather just these three we're trying to stick on you at the moment."

i'm not saying this way out would work for will, and i fully admit its a very risky option that relies on laziness and slow reaction to correspondence on the part of the police, but in my case, it was worth the risk and happily, it paid off smile


i would definitely agree with misscorinthian about enquiring as to why the second letter already had your name on as the suspected offending driver - especially if both letters came from the same police force...

that's weird.


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Mr_Chutney
Mr_Chutney

Tosser
Location: Herefordshire
Member Since: 18th Apr 2003
Total posts: 1711
Posted:perhaps the photo identified the driver (new driving licenses all carry pictures do they not?).

Either way, Silly Willy. I told you that car was a rocketship, and look what happens- you kill a pheasant (I think that been mentioned elsewhere) and then you inadvertently activate the warp drive at places only impulse is permitted.

(Good luck on the loop hole threading wink)


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roarfire
roarfire

comfortably numb
Location: The countryside
Member Since: 8th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2676
Posted:I don't know about over there, but here if you lose your licence you've still got three months before you actually lose it and can't drive anymore. So it's not a bad thing.....yet.

If the same applies over there then you can have your new licence tests booked and ready in advance.

Just trying to look on the positive side smile

Good luck with it Will!


.All things are beautiful if we take the time to look.

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steaks
steaks

former manc tour guide
Location: Manchester
Member Since: 21st Dec 2005
Total posts: 1909
Posted:Unfortunatly Roar, it does not work like that here. Having lost my licence in the past (for a totaly unrelated offence), if you appear in court and the punnishment issued means you have to loose your licence they confiscate it from you there and then. So you leave the court room without your licence or the appility to drive.

I would still advise on seeking legal advice about why they arrived so close together, yet the apperance is different, and about how you should respond to them. Good luck Will smile


Owned by the lovely SNOOPoi
Owner of Clarence_Quack

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MiG
MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG
Member Since: 16th Apr 2004
Total posts: 3415
Posted:If you desperately need your licence, you might be able to appeal the loss of licence, should it go that far. I got done at 122km/h in a 110 zone, which is an instant disqualification here. i went to court (cost a bit in fees etc), and was able to keep my p's, but i'm on them for a bit longer.

Not sure if the UK works the same, but it might be worth a try.


"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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Chickpea
Chickpea

mostly a muppet in need of distraction...
Location: bristol
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 305
Posted:might be a bit late but a friend managed to keep her license by doing the advance drivers course - negotiation or whatever - she kept 3 points on her license but they scrubbed the other 3.

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:obviously its different over there, but my mate got cought by the same speed camera going up a hill and then back down five minutes later. he was supposed to lose his licence but his dad (who is a lawyer specialising in car accidents) got him off because the police did the paper work wrong or something.

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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PyroWill
PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines
Member Since: 4th Aug 2004
Total posts: 4437
Posted:whoo hoo, just got the letter today, one of the offences they will forget if I attwend the spped semiars course, I'm not gonna loose my license bounce

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:i guess i've been lucky
stop reading if you've heard this before biggrin
My boyfriends old roommate got his car stomped on and because the two of them were having problems (he called the cops on us that very night). The detective wanted to interrogate him and see if what I said matched, so we had to go up to the station. Even though I lived in Waukesha my whole life, I never needed to go to the station and have no idea where it is. He was stalling and we get late and its dark. Warrants had been mentioned if boyfriend did show up for questioning.
I get to an intersection when I suddenly realize where I am, make a U-turn, and fail to yield at a sign. Boyfriend: You almost hit a cop
Sure enough on go lights. I pull over and the cop takes my license. He asks where I am going in such a hurry. I tell him the story. He goes back and runs my license and calls ahead to see if my story is true.
When he comes back, I get a lecture about being more careful, and he starts to go back to the car. Boyfriend breathes sigh of relief as he may have a warrant in a different county.
Oh, Officer?
Shut up, he let you off
Officer turns slowly around, and lets out own sigh. Yes?
How do you get to the police station
Ill call ahead and let them know youre on your way. Can you follow me?
Sped behind the cop going 15 mph over for a few miles.
If a situation like that doesnt get me a ticket, nothing will. I am invincible.

ubbrollsmile


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:ubblol good story.

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Kieron
Member

Member Since: 20th Jul 2005
Total posts: 232
Posted:Yay for not losing the licence!

And also for the story wink


"I'm quite good at darts, though i often miss" - Kylie

"I'm not a bad driver, I just panic when theres other cars around" - Sarah

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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:i also have a unique situation
i cannot hit a moving object if i try(well, not that i try...)
but inanimate objects are attracted to me...i have hit a garbage can, parking lot pillar, and a telephone pole
the key here is if we are going someplace and i am driving get in while the car is moving and jump out before i park


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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steaks
steaks

former manc tour guide
Location: Manchester
Member Since: 21st Dec 2005
Total posts: 1909
Posted:Will, thats good to hear smile
Well done that man hug


Owned by the lovely SNOOPoi
Owner of Clarence_Quack

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Hanz
Hanz

veteran
Location: Bendigo, Vic, Australia
Member Since: 7th Jun 2004
Total posts: 1328
Posted:one of my brothers mates got a speeding fine about a year ago. Supposedly he was driving the work car and was speeding. He wasnt driving. Luckily for him he was able to prove this with the log books and got out of it... guys, if you're told to sign a log book for work or something else... do it! never when it will save you.

To be honest, I'm worried about speed when I start driving, if I keep the car I currently have it is still in mph, Australia is now in kph... a bit different there!

Also, have you guys heard the latest concerns, they believe that speed cameras may be incorrect about 30% of the time I think it was... this is a big amount

Will: hope it sorts itself out for you, and you learnt something... keep an eye on the speed.


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KatP
KatP

Muddy fingernails
Location: Way oop norf
Member Since: 15th Jan 2005
Total posts: 505
Posted:Surprised you got a ticket for 35mph in 30 zone. I had understood that speed cameras operated on 10% + 3 mph tolerance. If true should only get ticket for 36mph or above. I could be wrong though.

Develop 6th sense for spotting painted lines on road and cameras from distance. It helps a lot.

Remember points stay on licence for 5 years. 12 = disqualification (unless they've changed that since the last time I checked.)


Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

KITTENS!!!!

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Kieron
Member

Member Since: 20th Jul 2005
Total posts: 232
Posted:6 points = disqualification if you've had you're licence for less then 2 years here. Then it goes up to 12 I believe.

"I'm quite good at darts, though i often miss" - Kylie

"I'm not a bad driver, I just panic when theres other cars around" - Sarah

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