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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:so no, as a disclaimer, i'm not good or anything. i only know a little bit. as a dancer, it's how i move anyway, all snakey, but i'm not like the belly dance king or anything. i can move, and make it look pretty belly dance esque. but learning how to REALLY belly dance is helping me get my *ahem* hip area more invloved in my dancing without looking like a dorky white guy at a nasty boody rubbin R&B concert trying to get some... convulsin an gyratin and people callin da ambulance...

but i'm finding that i am of a rare breed indeed... any other guys out there belly dance? any? at all?

it is soooo good for your spine!!!! and let's not forget they have a way better version of "the wave" than breakdancers...

anyway... here's a really cool site with some instruction links that has been helping me, if anyone's interested... my favorite so far is the "belly dance with boticelli" site.

belly dance instruction on the web

[ 01. January 2003, 16:13: Message edited by: arashi ]


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:thanks i found that site today and am finally making a little progress

still, not many male costumes, whereas there are hundreds of women's. even harder, is finding a non-Middle Eastern male belly dancer that is not quite openly gay. i've only seen a couple so far. now i'm even more of a pariah, how many dreadlocked, _straight_, fire dancin, bullwhip crackin, neophyte belly dancers do you know? not many. how many of them are tired from practicing and sauced right now? at least one.


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Hey arashi....if you can get me to Texas I will work your shimmy off like you wouldn't believe!
We can even get into balancing a sword in places that is not your head!

Okay..male costumes. As in traditional? Neo-bd?
Folk? THere are so many options. What style of dance do you do? Tribal? Global Fusion? Folk? Cabaret-esque? There is alot that plays into this.

In the Folk dances traditional the men do not show their stomachs nor do they do the same hip/chest movements as women, and so the costumes do not actually show their bodies. THey are more flowy and free form. Turku and Domba are/have musicians that wear these style of clothing.
Truthfully, Horatio dressed the way he does because it shows his body similar to a womans. If I were you, I would do a cross between his principle and something more masculine.... like
An Alladin look...bare chest, vest with pantaloons (baggy pants) but make these lowriders with a hip sash to really enunciate your hip motions.

Oh crud...I will come back to this later..running late! Hope this helps a little bit!


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:asking me what style i do is like asking a cricket what song he's playing... damn, i got no idea!!
i'm just doing improvisational tribal(i guess), with indian dance poses and footwork, and belly arm movements, with shimmies, butterflies, figure 8's, belly rolls, and spinning, and turning, with some liquid and tai chi and kung fu thrown in for luck. i am definitely showing some skin, though! i think i'm gonna go with a gilded vest or something and some fairly baggy pants and a cool, dangly, cowry shells n' bells belt, i might split the pants open later and show some leg but that would mess with BTL moves. i definitely like the tribal gypsy style, and i like traditional ME women's, the traditional male costume shows way not enough skin for my taste. plus we GOTTA show the hips and such, that's where the mojo is, baby! jeeeeeeesus- doing this searching- all these pictures of belly dancer women are driving me crazy! i feel like a crock pot set on "slow cook"


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Dark Pixie
member
Location: somewhere.....?
Member Since: 6th May 2003
Total posts: 47
Posted:I Bellydance with my staff... inspired by cane dances... I'm toying with the idea of a cane on fire.

Roman candles that burn in the night, yeah you are a shining light

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Just use a flaming staff, I do. Works well. So does the whole sword thing. And fans if you do the fan dance. Palm fire is a great replacement for small candles....the possibilities are endless. Many poi moves are like veil....I could go on forever....


Arashi, my sweet patient one...I have no forgotten you but I am in the middle of the most HECTIC week of performing so....can you wait one week for me to come back. I have LOTS to say (what's new there??? ) but no time!

Bump this or pm me to remind me..kay?


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:no hurry, i'm in the middle of a magickal mystery tour... la la la laaaaaa... caught up in green eyes, crushing sea foam green, and caresses of eelskin undulations... lips that make me buzz like a bee... anyways... off to bed

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Raphael96
old hand
Location: New York City
Member Since: 8th Sep 2002
Total posts: 899
Posted:I love watching good belly dancing...



Raph


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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:*ahem*bump again j/k

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Raphael96
old hand
Location: New York City
Member Since: 8th Sep 2002
Total posts: 899
Posted:I love watching bellydancers..

Raph


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Myste - Queen of the Badgers
mushroom! mushroom!
Location: Next to my badger
Member Since: 2nd May 2003
Total posts: 809
Posted:thanks guys!! just started belly dancing a month ago and have missed 3 out of 4 lessons because of transport hassles (starting to think maybe someone is telling me not to continue making a fool of myself!) But now i can catch up with the websites you guys posted!! hehehe. imagine me gyrating in front of the computer trying to learn moves. * blushes*

hey anyone else here get the impression Raph likes females belly dancing for him


I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it As you like it

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:still having a hard time finding interesting neotraditional costumes for guys. *sigh*
i guess i'll just have to go with my tribal faery belly dancer look i got going already.


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Hey Arashi, sorry it took so long to get back to you.

Okay, now I know somewhere along the line you mentioned Indian Dance, which is a huge influence in the world of Tribal Dance. There are several forms of Indian Dance that you might want to look at.

Rajasthani is a street dance done mostly by women, but there is a *tonne* of it's influence in American Bellydance. It is known for spinning, backbends, big hip movements and balancing water urns and baskets on the head. If bellydance is something you care to pursue, then this is definitely worth a look.

Filmi is from Bombay (which is thier "Hollywood") and in true hollywood fashion has taken several folkloric dances and modernized, even including some western dance moves. These are danced for movies (because most indian movies have a song and dance segment for some reason). A Hero and Heroine usually dance for one another kind of thing. So for male influence, I would definately look at Filmi for inspiration.

Bhangra is a REALLY popular form of Indian dance, done at most social events and at festivals. Bhangra literally means "man", this dance utilizes military-esque movements as well as "harvest" motions set to the rhythm of the dhol (drum). Obviously a male oriented dance, but females (giddha) also participate in it.

For costuming...I think it would help me more to know what you are looking at. The most "common" costume is very obviously the flowy long sleeved shirt (kamiz tunic), turban, short vest and "balloon" pants or sarouelles (flowy pants). Sashes are very commonly male as well. FatChance Bellydance ( www.fcbd.com ) has patterns for sale for these and much more. For some photo's of more modernized ideas (not using balloon pants) the musicians Turku give a good vision of what different lengths of coats/vests and such look like ( www.turkumusic.com ). Remember that shirtless with body art is a very neo-traditional thing to do. Ultra Gypsy (who I don't recommend patterning dance or fire skills after) has one male in the primary troupe. There is an interesting photo of him in Kuchi Jewelry on the front page of the site ( www.Ultragypsy.com ).

Anyway...now that my babbling is quite extensive..did I make up for taking so long???
Hope this helps!
Much love!


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Kali
member
Location: Berlin, Germany
Member Since: 29th Apr 2002
Total posts: 577
Posted:And for Indian dance don't forget Bharatnatyam, the dance of the gods. There were a couple of guys in the class I was in.

Beauty is the conscious sum of all our perversions.-Salvador DaliHope without action is hopeless.

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Pele'sWhippingBoy
member
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
Member Since: 19th Jun 2001
Total posts: 442
Posted:I too like to watch belly dancers. I like it so much I've started working with the troupe Pele is involved with (Hipchik Raks)and it's a lot of fun.
I was their DJ at one show and hopefully will be at others. (I think I'm the king of being in a supporting role.)

I have a site that has a list of many belly dance sites. When I get home I'll try to post it up in here. Of possible interest are the male belly dancer sites. There was maybe 6 on this fairly large list.


FYI: I am not Pele. If you wish to reply to me and use a short version of my name, use: PWB.

English? Who needs that? I'm never going to England. - Homer Jay Simpson

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Kali:
And for Indian dance don't forget Bharatnatyam, the dance of the gods. There were a couple of guys in the class I was in. That is actually one that isn't commonly involved in Bellydance now, which is interesting. Just for clarification sake, Indian Dance is not traditionally concidered a form of Bellydance (with the exception of Filmi in the Indian culture, which is only termed bellydance because of the showing of their bellies). In American Fusion and Tribal styles, however, it is being incorporated more heavily.

I was just thinking about the fact that several people are talking about learning from websites and videos (which is good but does not replace a good teacher), and then a few questions came up about it being good for the spine or damaging.

I can not stress this enough. Bellydance can be exceptional for the body, when done properly. It can also be very damaging when done improperly (especially back bends and hip movements). Improperly done can lead to hyperextensions and pinches. Proper posture is IMPERITIVE when bellydancing. This means, shoulders rolled back and down, chest lifted, pelvis tucked slightly. This removes the pressure of the moves from the lower back and causes the abdomen to act as the primary support function (which it should be). It feels awkward at first but gets easier.

When doing hip motions be sure to use your abdominals to create the motions (more specifically your obliques) and really ground your supporting foot down, this saves your supporting hip from hyperextension.

All back bends should be supported from THE MIDDLE OF THE BACK, and not the lower back. If you aren't able to move to the extremes of people in the video's or even of your instructor, that is alright. You will with time and practice.

Also be sure to warm up and cool down your muscles (especially hips, shoulders and ankles) thoroughly, something I recently neglected for expediency sake and am now paying for. I teach warm-ups for our troupe class for at least 5 minutes, usually a bit longer.

I just really don't want to see anyone get hurt.

And PWB, you are our DJ for the performance this Sat Night. I also still feel that "Sidekick Extraordinaire" suits you perfectly!


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:thanks pele, i'll do some searches on those styles and see what happens. i checked out the fat chancer sitte, and couldn't find aznything, i'll go back and look again, it's sort of set up confusing. thing is i don't really know what i want, i'm just looking for ideas and inspirations to assimilate into my art nouveau tribal fairy look. i think the bare skin and jewelry thing is where it's at, but for some of my toys i need lots of protection, or lots of burn cream. with chains i tend to do lots of wraps and close in moves that need at least a shirt and arm guards. the rest of the show i think i'll just go bare. dare to bare! (in fact i'm so broke i may start "exotic" fire/belly dancing at bachelorette parties soon)(but not quite hungry enough to do the gay bars)(yet) now if i could just afford those belly vinework tatoos...
thaks for your time and help and concern! you are a saint!
off to see a gorgeous traditional turkish belly dancer see ya later...
so, you've seen ultra gypsy? we were in a festival with them about six years ago, and their lead female was phenomenal, she's the sexy one i said had a snake in her tummy. the group choreography was okay, the fire dancing was WEAK though, compared to a pure avid fire dancer, but it was six years ago, and we can't all be perfect . have you seen them lately?


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:oh and i'm still even getting warmed up to THINK about backbends, that's where a lot of my old injuries' aftereffects seem to be migrating to, down to my lower back. someday*sigh*

but i am trying really hard not to hurt myself by teaching myself this stuff... trying to keep the spine stretched and straight. the guy you linked to earlier mentioned that guuys shouldn't do as much side to side stuff, would you agree? so i've been working on more forward to back belly rolls. but there are so many compound twisting rolls that i really like, where your spine becomes spiralled and the wave travlels down it, would you say i should as a guy stay away from those? i hope not... they are where i've been really getting off lately!


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:arashi...Jill Parker is the head of Ultra Gypsy, and yes, she is amazing. She was one of the original members of FatChance Bellydance, and so has studied with some of the best. Yes, I have seen them recently, and no the fire has not gotten much better. Like so many others, they rely on the fact that it is fire to cover for them. But...anyway....

Undulations, ami's, tilts, rolls I see no issues with. If you are suffering the reprocussions of a back injury then please take it easy.
The physiology of men and women, being different as it is, does restrict the mobility of men's hips in mya type movements, we are built to be more subltely circular in shape and motion, quite honestly. What can happen with a man is that he can pull muscles in his back and sides, and really the biggest threat is hyperextension of the hip and groinal muscles are an easy pull. I wouldn't say not do it, I simply say don't do it to the extremes that women do. Find other variations of forward and up motions, like the ami. I will check further into this and get back to you, 'kay?
Hugs and Happy Hips to ya!


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Pele'sWhippingBoy
member
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
Member Since: 19th Jun 2001
Total posts: 442
Posted:Belly Dance Web - Male section
5 are listed. 3 from California, 1 from Australia, and one from Scandinavia.


FYI: I am not Pele. If you wish to reply to me and use a short version of my name, use: PWB.

English? Who needs that? I'm never going to England. - Homer Jay Simpson

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Gandhi Ganjamaster
member

Member Since: 30th Aug 2002
Total posts: 299
Posted:here's some tabla music from Egypt that is said to be the best dance teacher
some of the tracks are like horse chases, others like camel caravans, and all make your body move in unexpected ways.

Sohir Sakey
33 Tabla Ala Hak
Oriental Music

that's the only script i can read on the CD.
It's got a bellydancer in front and the Sphinx in the backgrouond. Honestly, would've never bought it, looks so tacky, but them in the know say it's the best and it is!!

Ask your Egyption shop keeper.


On another note, have the chance to have stuff brought back from Egypt - i want a tabla and a costume. but what kinda costume?? some are so flimsy and i'd like something more versatile.
any suggestions?


Why?

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Gandhi Ganjamaster
member

Member Since: 30th Aug 2002
Total posts: 299
Posted:now here's the best endorsement i can think of:

was blasting the above mentioned tabla music when my mum came in and,
instead of cocking an eyebrow and turning off the music
she kicked off her shoes and started shimmiying
what a sight!
she's sixty, kinda missed the whole hippy movement by a bit
but dang, she can be so cool

she even wore my bellydance belt and got carried away...


Why?

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:A certain percentage of women tend to get EXTREAMY turned on by watching a guy belly dance while spinning fire. Do this at a party with over ten single women and you will probably get hit on at least once befor the night is over.

Great thread Arashi!!! And great links to education sites.


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:Well....I made a video that contains gratuitouse belly dancing. I have it uploaded to my web site, but the server went down right befor I got the link made for it It is ok though, it can be accessed right now, I just can't post a link on our site yet. here is a link to get to it (for now it is the only way)

http://www.flamingsphere.homestead.com/files/daylightsilence.WMV


It is in Windows Media Video format, so nobody should have a problem viewing it.

I will warn the guys, there are no girls dancing, just me but the video starts out with "normal" poi and staff work, so the "sensitive viewers" can still get something out of it with out feeling totaly violated...

I am dedicating this video to Pele, Arashi, Beth, and Paul for supporting and inspiring me and telling me that "it's ok for a guy to (try and) belly-dance"

and to all the other people who inspired me to push my limits... thanx



:::crosses fingers in hopes that I didn't just make a complete fool of myself:::

[ 16. June 2003, 20:05: Message edited by: DJ Dantana ]


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:well, dantana, i can't see anything, but the song is cool (still no decompression)

pele, i just did a improv fire/dance show last night at a dance studio and this lady came up to me and wants me in her belly dance troupe! i said, really?i have no idea what i'm doing yet! she said no way, you ARE a tribal belly dancer! so i guess that answers that question(which style i do). turns out she just asked sage a few days ago, too, without knowing we were best buds. all there is in this town so far is mostly "cabaret" style so i thought i was just weird. (doing the ultra gypsy/arashi style.)
it's crazy, how seeing someone who is really advanced do their thing can really catapult you forward in your own evolution. people have said that to me/us countless times about our fire, in appreciation, but i never had it happen the other way around, where i learned from an advanced person. so after me seeing a really really really good belly dancer once, now people are mistaking me for an experienced belly dancer! crazy. life is grand. and so are bellies!

[ 17. June 2003, 02:47: Message edited by: arashi ]


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Raphael96
old hand
Location: New York City
Member Since: 8th Sep 2002
Total posts: 899
Posted:More belly dancing, hooray!!

I can't wait for Pennsic...



Raph


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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:your messing with me, right arashi.....???

It's just WMV format, you can get it for free off the MSN web site.... your killin me man...I was SO hoping you would be able to check it out. Well, I had to get the "upgrade" to test it on my co-worker's computer. It is easy though, look at the menu on the media player (I am assuming you have windows medai player) you just need the upgrade.

I saw a real belly dancering troop one time, it was great, but I only got to watch them for about 15 minutes, not long enough to learn a bunch.


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Psyri
Psyri

artisan
Location: Berkshire, UK
Member Since: 2nd Apr 2003
Total posts: 1576
Posted:It doesnt help tht it makes me think of a carry on film... lol
Bellydancin? Erm... my hips are wide enuf I dont need 2 dance and make em look bigger lol... quite the opposite.. ne1 know ne skinny dancin? lol


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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:ok, I got the site fully operational now.

http://www.flamingsphere.homestead.com/divxencoded.html
br>
The belly dance video is called "daylight", it is at the bottom.

enjoy..... (I hope)


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:and here i was trying to figure out a good way to get out of a downward conical spider airwrap. dooood that throw at the beginning wigged me out! great move! wow i finally learned something new about poi from HOP! i'm sooooo happy! that just made it all worth it. great work on those juggling throws too.
plus i figured out how to fix my windows decompressor problem. had to log on as a different user and download it. well whatever works, eh?

don't know too much yet, but as far as the belly dancing goes, my critique would be this... good "snakeness", and belly rolls, but i worried, you need better posture, and feet together whenever possible. it would help the aesthitics too. but your style is so different from mine that i can't be sure. if your feet are spread at any time for a move, i would go down to the ground more with your body, more of a warrior pose, and then back up after the move. i think you might strain your hips or back with your grounding foot/feet splayed out (not straight ahead). in yoga there is a direct connection to your ankles--> knees-->hips-->lower back, in standing poses. i think it is important to have your hips moving from a good solid straight ahead foot... even if the other with no weight on it is splayed out for something, grounding one is forward. am i right pele? plus it looks better when your body is taught, as a string.


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:Arashi learned something!?!?!?!

Wow man, that is an awsome complement! You have inspired me SO much, I am happy to be able to give something back. BTW, there are some tricks to the downward conical spider airwrap. It is in

1: The number of beats of wrap.

2: VS the speed of spin.

3: catch it over your head, in front is a lot harder. (not sure about fire though)

4: wrap it very close to the handles, because if there is a lot of chain on the handle side it will make the seperation timing less consistent.


I find that about four beat of airwrap are ideal for that rotation speed (use more wrap beats if you are spinning faster, as the outward tug will be greater, hence they will unwrap faster)

I'm sure you would have gotten all this anyways, but just to be on the safe side....

Thanks for the input on my style. I'll work on testing out your sugstions. I am also concerned that some my current style is a little to feminine, but I don't realy know yet, and it's all the style I have for now. Also, I have some trouble with turns too. It feels very ungainly to do those turns while spinning poi. I can do some of them fluidly without spinning poi, but when I start to poi it suddenly gets a lot harder to maintain correct rotational (verticle axis)motion during the horizontal hip circle. Maybe those posture and foot possiton tips will help?

Anyways, thanks again, for everything, I'll work on your sugestions and see how they feel.

Pele? any input from you?

BTW, befor I forget... I was teaching some hip motions to my younge lady padawan last week. We were about two feet apart, facing eachother, and mirroring eachother (but offbeat during "forward-back" hip motion (pelvic thrust plane of motion). I just wanted to warn you all about that type of exercise. maybe it was the fire twirling adrenaline and endorphines, maybe it was something else (sweaty bodies and phermones), but it felt VERY sensual, almost irresistably so...for both of us..... just a fair warning for those attempting to remain single...


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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