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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia

Total posts: 1848
Posted:So, i'm not usually a big fan of the youtube, but i was cruising around after watching the vid Pele posted and came accross this little cutie. ubblove

*shakes head* She's a better dancer than me! she gonna be one snakey lady when she grows up....


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia

Total posts: 1848
Posted:oh, i missed this one...

 Written by: Dentrassi



anyway...err.... well it did look a bit wierd - reminded me a bit of one of those computer animated dancing babies -



Kinda like you when you bellydance huh ed?

tongue wink nah, you know you're a lovely dancer and we all luv ya.


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...

Total posts: 13215
Posted:ok guys! we're in discussion now so we have to be sensible! tongue

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia

Total posts: 1848
Posted:uh-oh.

"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I was asked to add into this discussion....

So.

Middle Eastern dance as we know it was *not* created by women in harems. That is a very common misconception sadly.
It was however something that is handed down generationally, from grandmother to *young* grand-daughter and is danced for many reasons...to celebrate a young woman coming into puberty, to celebrate the coming of a baby and invoke a blessing upon it (and to make the birthing process easier), to celebrate...simply put. In many of the ME cultures the men and women celebrated seperately. The women of each household would get together and dance, sometimes to show off usually to just celebrate.

Yes in Turkey it is concidered almost akin to stripping, and many of the most sexual movements they use are not actually traditional to the dance. The modern incarnation of the dance from Turkey is not an accurate representation and one should look into Turkish Folk dance to see that.

Traditional bellydance very often tells a story, much the same way as hula.

Seeing children bellydance is a celebration.
The movements are only sexual because of modern interpretation, and if we really want to get into the history of it, it was sideshow/circus producers W.O. Taylor and P.T. Barnum which introduced ME dancers to the US in 1893. These *men* are the ones who attached the "harem girl" sexuality to it. Hollywood picked up on it just after the turn of the century and ran with it.

There are women, "performers", who use this dance as a way to garner sexual attention wearing skimpy costumes but they are not the norm and they are not what should be thought of as the modern face of bellydance.
If you watch performances of high end bellydancers you will see grace, strength, confidence, power, celebration but very few who intentionally strive to be sexy and seductive, and many movements which really aren't at all.

This dance is no different than hula in its basic nature and yet child hula dancers are seen as cute and lovely, where as having a child bellydance is concidered tawdry and immoral in many cases.For young girls to bellydance is natural and beautiful, not to mention extremely healthy for them and I personally think that people who cheapen it down to a base sexuality is very sad.

Btw, I've been bellydancing for 14 years or so. I teach bellydance to people of all ages, male and female.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Yakumo
SILVER Member since May 2006

Yakumo

veteran
Location: Oxfordshire, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1237
Posted:Its sad to agree with so much that is being said here on so many levels, but to have to keep coming back to one, simple core point.



As I've said throughout this thread the original intent of the dances inception, or the current intent of it's performers is irrelevant here.



 Written by: Pele

The movements are only sexual because of modern interpretation.





Are you really, honestly, trying to claim, that 50, 500, or even 2500 years ago, a man or woman, that had just been having sex with their lover (predominantly if female, men tend to be far more static), and then shown bellydancing, OR VISE VERSA would not recognise the motions which people take issue with in bellydancing (not the rest of it).



The fact that so many people end up having this argument in the first place is pretty much proof of that in itself!



To not think of that ever would be to be someone who never thought about sex.



And to dismiss sex entirely would surely be one of the biggest and worst disempowerments of women there is!


Blinded by Hyperlights, please donate generously grin

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:We are talking about the dance, not individual movements.


Perhaps you should search for traditional videos of bellydancers, which are anything but sexy and are actually borderline comedic.

And if you do any amount of research into the history of the dance, perhaps take in a folk presentation, or watch a line-up of children dancing it you will see how *not* sexy but entrancing and empowering it is.

Just because something has sex does not mean it is powerful either, and if that is all that is being recognised, then that *is* the disempowerment right there. To take something with such history, that takes such an extreme amount of precision and training to excel at, that celebrates not only the female form but it's strength and power, and bring it down to a baseline of sexual is completely stripping it of it's authority and power.

The dance itself is not sexy. I have seen it on children, not sexy. I have seen it on old women, not sexy. I have seen it on women with two left feet and the grace of a rhino, not sexy...no matter which movements they choose.
It's the dancer that makes it sexy, her confidence, the ownership of her body, the joy in the dance.

No bellydance at its base is not sexy.
The woman who owns it is.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Yakumo
SILVER Member since May 2006

Yakumo

veteran
Location: Oxfordshire, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1237
Posted:cool, could you paste some links of the adult dancers?



And how do you feel about the idea that the best dancers (more generally, not just middle eastern) are the ones who move more sexually?

(thinking about general opinion too, not just someone with the eyes of an experienced dancer, or a choreographer. obviously popping may not be applicable ubblol )


Blinded by Hyperlights, please donate generously grin

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.:* Moon Pixie *:.


.:* Moon Pixie *:.

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: .:*over the rainbow*:.

Total posts: 3492
Posted:i'm going to be honnest... i haven't read all of this thread.... but i watched the video... and wow! she's an amazing dancer hey? ubblove thanks for sharing smile*:.


*:...one day all the fairy fridges will be aligned and my pixie world will be complete...:*

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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia

Total posts: 1848
Posted:Wonderfully informative Pele, thankyou biggrin hug

and bye the way, i really wanna come dance with you one day smile

pixie: isn't she though!? so cute, and you're welcome.


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...

Total posts: 13215
Posted: Written by: Pele


Yes in Turkey it is concidered almost akin to stripping, and many of the most sexual movements they use are not actually traditional to the dance. The modern incarnation of the dance from Turkey is not an accurate representation and one should look into Turkish Folk dance to see that.




Did you not in the description on youtube that it was footage from a Turkish tv show?


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
Posted:The music in the piece is great. Personally I'm not too impressed with the dancer. A lot of 5 year olds can learn basic static choreo with simple moves. The set blew me away though. What the...! ubblol

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...

Total posts: 13215
Posted:extend the description. the GIRL is Egyptian. but it's TURKISH tv.

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

Delete

FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia

Total posts: 1848
Posted: Written by: newgabe


A lot of 5 year olds can learn basic static choreo with simple moves.



that hip-rolly thing she's doing? at the school i was learing at, they don't teach that one till level three, i did level three twice over and i still can't do that half as well as she's doing it...


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
Posted:That's cos you started when you were old and stiff already!

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia

Total posts: 1848
Posted:well... yes that's a good point... shhhh... she's cute and she's good.

hey... hang on... i'm only 22...


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:i didn't find it to be a sexual performance
and my friend does bellydancing and she usually performs in a sari with little to no skin exposed
the whole thing traditionally appears not so sexual, just the commercialized media based stuff


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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