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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA

Total posts: 1269
Posted:Since I gotcalled out for being a tease, I will make the new thread.,. This way, hopefully, I will stop derailing other threads, and can save my energy for derailing my own..



Basically I want to talk about expectation in general.. It seems to me that if there is something that we don't know, then the inherent mystery that comes along with not knowing fuels our imaginations.. As such, we are often 'let down' by the acutal product. This can be seen in the form of a new move, where it gets talked about for ages, and then when you learn it you either a) already knew that, but didnt find it special, or b) think 'that's it?!?'.. But it can also be seen in the expectations that we place on others.. We get one face impressed upon us by al of these discussions of the people not just the patterns.. But despite how oftern we talk with all these people, it takes more than that to 'know' or understand them.. and so, whether in poi, or in life, we get let down by people who fail to live up to 'our' expectations..



Now one of the things that I thought intereseting, and thus led to this thread, is that we have at least a good understanding of how expectations like that work. But one thing we also know is that we are always our own worst critic.. I mean, we all know what we did wrong, and what we 'intended' to do, but for whatever reason didnt. In many ways, we find that even our best spinning is never our 'best'... Because of the critique we think, I could have done better. I mean, sure, there is a difference between critiqueing ourselves and saying that these areas need imporvement, but that this is still the best we can do.. However, I think in many ways this isnt the case. And thus opens up this discussion. How are the expectations that we put on ourselves any different from the expectations we put on others? Furthermore, if our best is never good enough for us, then who exactly do we think we are?



edit:I guess to continue this musing... what does the 'could' mean in I could have done better? Does it mean that I 'want' myself to 'be' better, or does it mean that I really in fact thought that I am better than that, but for whatever reason mucked it up?

EDITED_BY: Rev (1142273678)


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
Posted: Written by: andrealee


reading what I wrote, I realize how much I have to offer credit, love, and appreciation to the most beautiful Nick, for his guidance down the poi path... He certainly has been a strong influence in how I think about poi!





hehe - I was thinking about Nick when I was reading your post too smile

I especially like the idea of detaching ego and avoiding explicit motivation for improvement (ie comparison to others and self) and looking at finding ways of creating and stretching harmonious moments (and movements) that just exist without being linked to negative consequences (ie the pain / frustration / comparison). I think one of the main ways Ive been trying to do this is by actively trying to avoid comparing myself with others, and to ease up on myself for letting skills slip. Each time I pickup poi I try to look for pleasure in that session. I guess mentally seperating twirling from my identity may also help too.

This thinking itself is very circular - but isnt that what attracts us to twirling in the first place?

Eventually I'll be twirling on the inside, and I wont need poi wink


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

veteran
Location: lost, Canada

Total posts: 1247
Posted:"Eventually I'll be twirling on the inside, and I wont need poi "

Josh, you got it exactly... !!!


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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_khan_
SILVER Member since Nov 2004

_khan_

old hand
Location: San Francisco, California, USA

Total posts: 768
Posted: Written by: Pyrolific



I especially like the idea of detaching ego and avoiding explicit motivation for improvement (ie comparison to others and self) and looking at finding ways of creating and stretching harmonious moments (and movements) that just exist without being linked to negative consequences (ie the pain / frustration / comparison).





I agree that comparison to others is never really particularly useful and generally only leads to negativity, but I have to say comparison to self is very useful. "Do I know/understand more now than I did a month ago? A year ago? 10 years ago?" If the answer to that is no, that to me says no growth has occured and stagnancy has set in. That, to me, is spiritual, emotional, and artistic death.

A lot of what's been said here makes sense when approaching poi as a meditative practice. When approaching poi as a performance art though, I believe there needs to be a more rigorous examination of both technique and presentation. If I'm going to do something for an audience -- even if it's just a bunch of my friends, I want to be certain that what I do is worthy of their time and attention. This is less about my ego and more about -- "wow these people are giving me their time and attention and it would be an insult to them to not do something really cool." Finding that harmonious place is great and I do agree with and believe in that as part of my own practice...and for me, just doing the fountain over and over again gets me there. Repetition of certain patterns gets me there. But would I want to do 20 minutes of a fountain for an audience? Hell no.

As far as releasing the ego, I think that's right on, even in a performance context. We're not so much learning how to control the poi as learning how to get out of the poi's (and our own) way.

 Written by: Pyrolific



Eventually I'll be twirling on the inside, and I wont need poi wink




I think we're all already twirling on the inside. Isn't the poi simply external manifestations of our internal twirl? tongue


taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco

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BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

veteran
Location: lost, Canada

Total posts: 1247
Posted:Great post !

In terms of performance, I absolutely agree with you. In fact, we could go further developing criteria for evaluating poi performances, - not to judge them, but so that people can have an idea of some things to look for when developing their own performance.As an audience we sometimes are not even fully aware of whysomething is working for us, and why not... can be a good tool! Not everyone has to approach it that way, and often the only use for a good set of criteria is to know what rules you are breaking/rejecting... but it still can be fun and useful.

Stagnancy, I dont use a comparision to determine this myself, internal or external. Actually, I was going to say, I just feel it. But ya know, I never do feel that. In fact, I am probably on the other spectrum, and could benefit from things not changing so fast for a while, even if the changes are progressive ones! So uh, just forget I said anything... ;-)

Last thought for now- I have seen performances ( dance) that took some of what I was discussing about surprise, harmony and flow and used it with all the performance criteria: elevated things to an absolutely transcendant level, fully engaging the audience...Performance can become a spiritual expereince, for bothperformer and audience!

Thanks for your thoughts Khan!
love
Andrea
PS New York? May?


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Great thread biggrin

Getting to the other side smile

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