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Forums > Social Discussion > English Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:We had a "pedantic" thread back a while ago where the goal was to write whatever...as long as it was in perfect grammatically correct English.

We're not asking for that.

But for many readers of this board, English is not their first language. And for some of us, who learned to read and write properly wink it's very difficult to decipher a mess of gibberish with no punctuation, abbreviations up the wazoo (eg: "u shud cum 2 my house im havin a partee coz its my birfday an well get v drunk"), and spelling that is...original.

Now I grant this isn't my high school Honors English class, but PLEASE have the decency to at least try to use correct spelling, punctuation, and grammar? Really, we all learned these basics in (forgive me) grammar school.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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jeffhigh
Member
Location: Caves Beach, NSW
Member Since: 15th Oct 2005
Total posts: 89
Posted:Americans don't really speak english do they?
But then again, I don't like what the English do with it either.
Jeff (Born in the USA)


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TinklePants
TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2005
Total posts: 4217
Posted:Mike - I take it you aren't the only one bothered by this?

I have issues with it too - it's highly annoying!

As a kid I was the class dictionary - from when I was something like 9, right up to when i left school (at 15 frown )
though out my secondary education though, I was annoyed how people couldn't punctuate.

Was it the results of living in a simplistic village in Wales (inbreeding? ubblol) ??
Probably!


Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

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dani_babyboo
dani_babyboo

addict
Location: Cannock, staffordshire
Member Since: 23rd Feb 2005
Total posts: 667
Posted:some people actually cant help it and here in uk we dont have grammer school just english lessons...

im dyslexic to the extent i drop punctuation a lot and i get certain words and there spellings mixed up like beleive/ believe

but i am learning not to use text language


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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:Written by:

dani_babyboo
im dyslexic to the extent i drop punctuation a lot and i get certain words and there spellings mixed up like beleive/ believe




Me too. English isnt my first language, but is much easier language for me, than Czech. smile

:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:I get incredably annoyed about this - as I've posted in a number of threads, if you don't consider your thoughts to be worth writing out in an easy to understand format, why should anyone else consider them worth decyphering?



Written by: dani_babyboo


some people actually cant help it and here in uk we dont have grammer school just english lessons...



im dyslexic to the extent i drop punctuation a lot and i get certain words and there spellings mixed up like beleive/ believe



but i am learning not to use text language





Ok, here's where I'll probably pick up some bad opinion - I don't think dyslexia is a valid excuse.

In fact, I think using it as one is just lazy and defeatist.

Effectively, it's saying 'I find this difficult, so I'm going to give up, make no effort at all and just make excuses instead'. I don't think that's a particularly good attitude to have, whether it be about spelling and grammar or anything else.



Now, I'm not saying that dyslexia == laziness, I know dyslexic people who make the effort needed to write easy to read posts, even if that's just adding blank lines to break the text up a bit.



As an example, I found dani_babyboo's post easy to read - it's not all heaped into one mass of text, it's broken up into readable sections, and all it took was a couple of extra button pushes.

It's not perfect, but if it's easy to read and gets the point across well, spelling mistakes and dropped punctuation can be given a bit of leeway I think.

EDITED_BY: TheBovrilMonkey (1135428258)


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:I went to a Grammar School (in the UK) but the people who went to the comprehensive could still write... well... some of them could... a bit... rolleyes wink biggrin

Yes it irritates me having to mentally insert punctuation/spelling into other people's writing.

Dani- You spelt "believe" correctly there, deliberately. Doesn't that indicate that you can do it whenever? Or do I not know anything about dyslexia? Well, I don't know very much about dyslexia anyway, but if you can spell something right one time, then how does it change for the next?

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Fine_Rabid_Dog
Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...
Member Since: 26th May 2004
Total posts: 10530
Posted:Dyslexia is not an excuse. I'm dyslexic - apparently rolleyes - doesn't stop me from making an effort. Nor does it stop me from being in the top English set at school, or getting an A* in English GCSE biggrin wink



Interestingly enough, most of the teenagers here don't actually do it anymore. S'all you old folks. Its not big, and its not clever... and it certainly isn't cool. Get with the times. wink


EDITED_BY: Fine_Rabid_Dog (1135434964)


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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polythene
veteran
Location: London/ Surrey
Member Since: 15th May 2003
Total posts: 1359
Posted:I doubt this thread is aimed at dyslexics Dani, rather people who really couldn't give a crap when it takes all of 30 seconds to copy paste into word to use the spelling and grammar checker, if that person knows his/her spelling/grammar is poor.

Note: this will not always help dyslexics (so I'm not picking on you guys!), depending on the form, as spelling can be an issue with homophones, and word's grammar checker often only comes up with 'consider revising' for more than minor grammatical errors.

p.s.... anyone else feeling pressurised into writing very, very carefully spelling and grammar-wise in this thread? ubblol


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TinklePants
TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2005
Total posts: 4217
Posted:Written by: Fine_Rabid_Dog

Dyslexia is not an exuse. I'm dyslexic - apparently rolleyes - doesn't stop me from making an effort. Nor does it stop me from being in the top English set at school, or getting an A* in English GCSE biggrin wink

Interestingly enough, most of the teenagers here don't actually do it anymore. S'all you old folks. Its not big, and its not clever... and it certainly isn't cool. Get with the times. wink




Henry when we chat, you mostly use smilies anyway wink


Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

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Skulduggery
Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales
Member Since: 12th Aug 2004
Total posts: 8428
Posted:There are many different ways dyslexia effects people. I too am dyslexic. I find the written word fairly hard to use. I find it very hard to put into text my thoughts. It all gets jumbled up. Grammar is my downfall. Not because I don't understand the rules. It's more I can't

find ways of applying the rules to what I write.



Spelling is very hard. I was taught to read mainly by learning word pictures in my head. Words that I write and I read over and over again are like shapes I recognise. If a word isn't spelt correctly or isn't one I've seen often I find it really hard to work out what it is. If I spell a word wrongly I can usually tell it's not spelt right but I can't for the life of me tell you how to put it right. I find phonetically sounding out words hard unless they are split up into syllables like Hipp-o-pot-am-us. Lots of letters all strung together without spaces make no sense to me. The same goes for numbers. Long strings of numbers I find very hard to deal with, hence I can't quote my mobile phone number to you. I have no idea what it is. I learn phone numbers by dialling them and remembering the pattern they make on the phone keypad.



It's the same with text. If there are no breaks, or commas, or full stops in a piece of text I find it really hard to figure out what is being said. I need the spaces and the punctuation to indicate to me where one thing ends and a new one begin. Otherwise the words all just end up running into each other.



Text speak leaves me confused and takes me ages to figure out what's being said.



Form filling is my idea of hell, because I can never be concise enough to get what I want to say into those little boxes. I'm also not very good at visualising how much space what I want to write will take up.



Being dyslexic isn't an excuse for not trying to use grammar, punctuation and correct spelling. If anything it should make you want to use all of them more. You as a dyslexic know how hard the written word is to understand at the best of times. Leaving out all the commas, full stops and correct spelling will just make it harder for someone else.


Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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GeoffonTour04
enthusiast
Location: Oxford
Member Since: 30th Nov 2005
Total posts: 360
Posted:I hate people who can't be assed to punctuate, though I have to say it can be quite cute, like using 't' instead of 'the' n stuff.

I've known a few dyslexic people, and with a few of them is was simply laziness, one guy was getting like extra money from college for supposed dyslexia but he really was just lunching the whole thing, used to drive me mad 'cause he didn't actually care.

I do know people who have trouble with how to construct & manipulate sentences to make them easier to read though, but only with written language, they have no trouble with spoken language.


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TinklePants
TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2005
Total posts: 4217
Posted:Skully, you're posts are always precise and grammatically correct - you shouldn't worry about form-filling, i ALWAYS fluff them up too - Since I was in school taking exams, I've always filled out forms in pencil first, gone over them with biro, then rubbed out the graphite biggrin

P.S. and still I've gone outside of the box/ruled line boundaries! ubblol


Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

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Domino
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
Member Since: 26th May 2004
Total posts: 757
Posted:I'm dyslexic, I struggled with my language skills and as such want my spelling, grammer and punctuation right (or if not right then acceptable). It irratates me when other people don't make the effort.

Think I'm just rehashing what Skully said rolleyes


Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Written by: dani_babyboo

some people actually cant help it and here in uk we dont have grammer school just english lessons...

im dyslexic to the extent i drop punctuation a lot and i get certain words and there spellings mixed up like beleive/ believe

but i am learning not to use text language



I'm not asking for the point of being pedantic. I'm asking literally because it's difficult for me to read some of this txt spk.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Igirisujin
Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 2666
Posted:Written by: Doc Lightning


*sniff* Ugh. I thig I hab a code *cough*



I hade dis. *Ke-TCHOO!*



I bean, I feel fide, bud by node id all sduffed ub! Ad *COUGH COUGH* I hab dis cough.



*Ke-TCHOO!!!*



Ken sobeone blease brig be sub dea wid hodey? *sniff*





mwhahah ubblol


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Asena
Asena

What a Bummer
Location: Shatfield, Hertfordshire
Member Since: 22nd Aug 2005
Total posts: 3224
Posted:ditto

Does that mean I have to start typing 'laugh out loud' instead of 'lol' now?

or can i jst cary on in my txt spk cos tht is soooo much eezier!!


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Fine_Rabid_Dog
Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...
Member Since: 26th May 2004
Total posts: 10530
Posted:lol is for lame asses anyways

biggrin


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:Written by: Asena

ditto

Does that mean I have to start typing 'laugh out loud' instead of 'lol' now?

or can i jst cary on in my txt spk cos tht is soooo much eezier!!



Please, no more txt speak - it's hard to understand, incredably annoying and, unless you're using a mobile phone keypad to type, incredably lazy - your keyboard has plenty of keys, you might as well use them.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:IMO genuine spelling mistakes/slips in grammar are fine; what's annoying is some of the ranting/rambling posts that have appeared recently, particularly the ones that are a big single text block with no breaks. Generally I don't bother reading them because they are, to me, unreadable.

As for lol- I do, as do many others, know what it means, but there was a time when i didn't, and it was annoying to see it then- purely because it meant nothing, and also because it's one of those things that tends to mark out a kind of little club (ie those who know what these things mean).

Then again, writing it out in full is tedious- why not post a smilie instead, that's what they're there for.


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FireByNite
FireByNite

Are you up for it??
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 8th Dec 2004
Total posts: 349
Posted:I must admit I slip into text speak sometimes. I do try not to though (depends on how drunk I am wink ).

I hate trying to type in a text with a mobile phone, I find it much easier to write in full using a web to text site with the computer.

As far as using "lol" is concerned, isn't that what lolsign can be used for?

PS: I hope everyone can read this okay...


Are you up for it?
wink;)

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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 15965
Posted:Written by: TheBovrilMonkey

Please, no more txt speak - it's hard to understand, incredably annoying and, unless you're using a mobile phone keypad to type, incredably lazy - your keyboard has plenty of keys, you might as well use them.


Incredibly tongue


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PyroWill
PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines
Member Since: 4th Aug 2004
Total posts: 4437
Posted:i type like a fool so im not going to even get into this one



p.s. i had to make 6 typing corrections in the edit of this post wink

EDITED_BY: PyroWill (1135461726)


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JtJ
JtJ

Check ya later
Location: Lower Shaw Farm
Member Since: 28th Jul 2005
Total posts: 500
Posted:Written by: PyroWill

I type like a fool so I'm not going to even get into this one.

p.s. I had to make 6 typing corrections in the edit of this post wink



That's a lot of typing corrections! So I figured I'd do the rest for you^^^! wink (It was another 5).

See you tomorrow Will hug


Jake the Juggler

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:Written by: Cantus

Written by: TheBovrilMonkey

Please, no more txt speak - it's hard to understand, incredably annoying and, unless you're using a mobile phone keypad to type, incredably lazy - your keyboard has plenty of keys, you might as well use them.


Incredibly tongue



I'm quite happy to admit that my spelling's not perfect, but at least the word had the right number of letters wink


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Mint Sauce
veteran
Location: Lancs England
Member Since: 7th Sep 2003
Total posts: 1453
Posted:Humm I think this may be a first. I may have to disagree with you bov

Written by: TheBovrilMonkey

Ok, here's where I'll probably pick up some bad opinion - I don't think dyslexia is a valid excuse.
In fact, I think using it as one is just lazy and defeatist.




I am very dyslexic so whenever I can I type my posts out in MS-word first (this accounts for me not posting often as it just takes so dam long)

This is not always possible dew to time constraints or the computer in question not having any word processing capabilities (all the computers at work).

Sorry I'm running of topic the point I wanted to make was most of my posts have spelling mistakes and very bad punctuation and gramma not because I'm lazy but because I physically dont know how and where to put things other than capitals and full stops.

I always proof reed my posts and to me they look right. Even if completely the wrong word is in a sentence my brain sees it as correct.

Many words just elude me sending texts is a nightmare I often have to use different words to try to convey the same meaning as I cant even begin to construct to one I want to use (ask any one Ive txted)

I do try to make my posts readable but more often than not I just give up part way through a reply because I get cross and frustrated with myself al lose track of what I was trying to say.


(total time to construct this reply 12min about)


before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:Written by: Mint Sauce


whenever I can I type my posts out in MS-word first



I always proof reed my posts and to me they look right.



I do try to make my posts readable





Proof there that you're not using dyslexia as an excuse - you make an effort to make yourself understood.



I reckon that genuine mistakes (whether caused by dyslexia or not) are easily overlooked. However, not taking the time to proof read or run a spell check is really just lazy, whether you're dyslexic or not.



Making a post and saying 'I'm sorry if there are mistakes, I'm dyslexic and even though I've tried, some mistakes creep through' is a hell of a lot different to saying 'I'm dyslexic, so I don't need to make the effort to check my spelling because I have an excuse I can fall back on'.

It's only the latter that I have a problem with.



edit.. on the topic of dyslexia, I read recently that trials of teaching dyslexic children to read with one eye closed are working quite well.

The theory is that dyslexics tend to have eyes that don't quite focus on the same place, so when one is looking at the start of a word, the other is looking at the end - so the brain gets a picture of a jumble of letters.

I find it very interesting that something that's so widespread could potentially be helped loads by something so simple smile

EDITED_BY: TheBovrilMonkey (1135472653)


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Mint Sauce
veteran
Location: Lancs England
Member Since: 7th Sep 2003
Total posts: 1453
Posted:agreed

before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

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Mint Sauce
veteran
Location: Lancs England
Member Since: 7th Sep 2003
Total posts: 1453
Posted:Humm interesting theory (dyslexia comes in many diferant forms i think)



My dyslexia also runs into my mathematical ability and the way I think though.



I have virtually no mental arithmetic. Given any to numbers I cant add them together without using my fingers or picturing it in my head.



Yes even 2 + 4 I have to go 4 + 1 =5 then 5+1=6. I cant do any times tables only 2, 5, and 10



But you give me a further maths problem like long division or quadratic equations and I can do them no bother.



I have a mechanically structured brain I'm in the top 2 % of the country for mechanical aptitude. I have to visualise everting if I cant visualise it I'm stuffed



eddited for spelling ubbrollsmile



sorry totaly offtopic

EDITED_BY: Mint Sauce (1135473259)


before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

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Domino
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
Member Since: 26th May 2004
Total posts: 757
Posted:I've got to say that "lol" can some times really, really irratate me lol

Far too often I've seen people use it as some kind of punctuation lol

Surely a full stop / period / . would be easier lol

I'll admit, rarely is somthing so funny that I burst into mirth at the end of every sentance lol


Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Although Bill Cosby routines often do trick lol.

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Page: 123

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