Forums > Social Chat > Walking alone at night, and the company you collect...

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_Aime_
_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings
Member Since: 2nd Jan 2004
Total posts: 4172
Posted:I walk places alot. And get the train. I don't drive, so walking and trains are my only choice. At 17 I'm old enough not to keep bothering mum for lifts, and my season ticket to college pretty much takes me where ever I want to go.



But walking home at 11pm+ by yourself holds it problems...



Men like to follow me. Foreign men.

Take last night for example. I'd been to Collington in Bexhill, to Colins house with LtC. I left at around 10.30 and trained back to St.Leonards.

I get off the train and start to walk up the hill in the direction of home when I spot man pushing a bicycle on the other side of the road looking at me.

He stays looking at me for a minute or two before crossing over and turning into a road I had just past. Thats ok. No problem. Hes gone.

I continue walking, up the big steps to the main road, then boof!, man pushing bicycle turns out of a road and starts walking next to me. He did this the whole way home making suggestions that I be his girlfriend, and if I did agree to it, he could make me very happy with descriptions of how he could make me happy. Ew. "I have a boyfriend, I'm not interested", dosn't get rid of him..and he continues.



Only when I said 'I have to cross over now' did this man stop talking to me. Instead he stayed 10 steosp behind me on the other side of the road. Stopping with his bicycle periodically as I slowed down/speed up.

Dude! I can hear the damn spokes! I know your following me!



I hit the turning to my road and practically run to my house, get in and collapse on mum.



This happens too often! I'm sick of it! It makes me so angry mad



I can't count on both hands the amount of times a foreign man has approached me and asked me for one thing or another...

I make a joke of it most times, but how many times is it going to be before one of them dosn't take no for an answer?



Mum has suggested getting me a rape alarm, and even a pepper spray, but it just seemes absoloutly absured that I need those things for a 10 minute walk from the station to my house, or from a club to the taxi rank.



I really really don't want to go back to your house/party/kebab shop, I don't care if you think I have very pretty eyes/legs/boobs, and really wish that you would leave me alone!

But I don't say that do I, I make petty conversation in the hope that you'll go away - but you never do!!! mad frown

Argh!







ubbcrying

EDITED_BY: Aime (1160074202)


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Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:@Brit_Joe: I didn't know she did Kickboxing... but I agree with you that a martial art is fun and good exercise etc etc

@Lurch: People at our Student Union were giving away rape alarms that were designed specifically to be thrown, the idea being that the person can shut either you up or the alarm, not both. Don't know if there are different models or what...

And it's a proven fact that weapons only escalate violence, and if the person carrying isn't properly trained, then it's just one more thing your attacker can use to hurt you. Self defence is so much better.

Good advice on the posture/attitude thing though.


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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Pigeon_Wigeon
Pigeon_Wigeon

Say what?
Location: Surrey/Portsmouth
Member Since: 24th Dec 2004
Total posts: 4760
Posted:I wouldn't tell them to [censored] off.. thats aggressive and won't help...
Learning a martial art is good smile I myself teach two forms and it makes me feel a lot more confident knowing I can defend myself against attacks even weapons attacks like knives.. I think every girl should learn smile
Keeping your head up and looking confident should help.. dont have hands in pockets or crossed or they are easily pinned.. by your sides already balled in fists is good smile
Don't be overly aggressive though... biggrin


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_Aime_
_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings
Member Since: 2nd Jan 2004
Total posts: 4172
Posted:I always walk with my hands in my pockets with my head down! ubblol



I think good posture and attitude do count for alot, and it might be a good idea to start practising keeping my head up and not avoiding eye contact with people walking past me...and not looking really really scared of them.



A point I've noticed..when ever I have wool wraps in my hair (see avatar)..people tend to avoid eye contact with me, like as if I'm a threat or something...

Raar, I'm some kind of ninja hippy biggrin



But I don't need to worry about anything right now. It's christmas! biggrin

EDITED_BY: *Aime* (1135499329)


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Igirisujin
Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 2666
Posted:</font><blockquote><font class="small">Written by:</font><hr />

The same way a rape alarm doesn't do you much good when they grab it and throw it





Oh then you just attach it it to the back of your pants/skirt whatever. That way if you set it off and he decides to throw it in the bushes then he wont be able to find it under your t-shirt or jacket, and then even if he does find it he then has to try and rip it off. Meanwhile while this alarm is going off and drawing lots of unwanted attension.


Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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Lurch
Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon
Member Since: 1st Nov 2003
Total posts: 929
Posted:May or may not draw attention, and in a reisdential neighborhood it's not really that difficult to throw something over a house, or the next street over. I'm not saying they don't work, they're just not foolproof. People aren't going to come running outside in the middle of the night because they hear something that sounds like a car alarm. If there are other people around than yes they are a good thing.

As for the weapons only escilating violence I have to disagree, However you have to seperate the 'good' guys and the 'bad' guys. Weapons in the hands of good guys stop violence more often than cause it. I'm not recommending she carry, as you said, weapons in the hands of untrained people can easily cause problems...

I've got to take off, going out of town for the holidays but I'll write more when I get back if you want to continue that line, I'd be more than happy to.

The biggest thing for self defence is to just avoid the situation entirely if possible, have someone else walk with you, take a different route, even if longer, etc etc


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

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Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:Written by: Lurch

As for the weapons only escilating violence I have to disagree, However you have to seperate the 'good' guys and the 'bad' guys. Weapons in the hands of good guys stop violence more often than cause it.



I agree with everything you say, apart from this.

When people are arguing/having a conflict, then there are many options. You can talk to someone, walk away, ignore them, stay in a group with your friends etc etc. There are many ways for you to avoid the situation (which, as you said, should be the primary defence) which do NOT involve escalating the conflict. However, as soon as a weapon is drawn, then the huge increase in potential threat forces someone into 2 choices: Fight or Flight. You either fight or you run.

Consider that someone (a "bad" guy) is likely to have friends he wants to impress, or feel like he has something to prove; either that he's not afraid, or that he's "harder" than you. Both of these make him unlikely to run, unless he's by himself and unarmed. So then you fight. With lethal weapons (unless you invest in a baton or somesuch).

Either way, that's going to get real messy. Even if someone is only injured, then there will be legal repurcussions. You'll be charged with carrying a weapon, assault with said weapon, and possibly grevious bodily harm. Your attacker will be charged with assault (provided he/she struck first). Pick your jail term... the only way you'll avoid courts is if the incident is never reported, or you can justify using potentially lethal weapons i.e. your life was actually in certain danger.

Regardless of the agressor, the police don't take kindly to fighting. They take even LESS kindly to people carrying knives/chains/guns/miscelleneous melee weapon of your choice.

The law might be different in the USA though. Here, weapons will make the police MUCH less sympathetic with you.

Happy Holidays! ubbrollsmile


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:@aimee: blonde hair - colour of gold - sunlight - purity - feminism - a minority (as black hair is dominant) - colour of angels hair, but also: not as bright, weak, passive...

there are a million and one advices but maybe you read out to him: nonono - this is a bad thing! you shouldn't walk up to women at night and make them scared in the first place... wink

continue your training (kickboxing, or whatever), learn how to struck where! When looking a fierce dog straight in the eye thinking or saying: you come closer and I (censored) kill you! It keeps it from attacking.

weapons not escalating a conflict? disagreed! "balance of power" is a myth! flashing a gun makes some people challenging! "security" is established by not victimising you in the first place and having self-esteem!

message: you scare me - leave me alone! not: humm, excuse me please, may you consider backing off? because actually I feel a little bit threatened here all alone at night weak and shaky and you tough big masculine figure give me an uncomfortable feeling... ?!? wink Comunication is the best way of dissolving creepy situations - being active and sending "me"-messages is more likely to help and to show that you don't allow others to imply their crap on you.

I watched (i.e. car) alarms go off and the only thing people do is ignore it! Famous saying: you scream "help!" - noone bothers! you scream "fire!" - everyones awake!

Screaming for help is not helping it - there are millions of examples for it. Man(kind) are cowards and do not want to involve in anything that could threat themselves. There enough tests where they put a phoney situation out: guy slapping a girl silly on the street. out of 50 bystanders only 1(!) actually goes helping.

In Munich we had the case of a girl getting raped in a train! About 10 people sitting in the same wagon, not interfering, even though she was screaming for help...

eat this!


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:That happened in Munich? You're kidding!! I wouldnt think that could happen ANYWHERE!!!!

Something I was taught at school about basic self defence, is to carry your keys in your fist with the keys sticking out between your fingers. Even someone who punches like a girl can get their message across doing that and it's not a weapon, so it's purely a self defence device.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:yes it happened in Munich and my hometown is actually the third safest major city in Germany, but amongst the "top 5" of sexual harrasment, -assault and rape... eek very very very sad!!!! frown

but - and now spank me for it: aimee NEVER EVER believe in crap opinions that tell you that "if it's going to happen - it's going to happen... there is nothing you can do about it... kung-fu experts went down..." and stupid remarks like that!

actually there is a LOT that you can do to prevent it from happening and that you can do to defend yourself if it happens.

if you BECOME the living weapon (in attitude or/and in ability), you don't have to carry one - your eyues and expression speak for themselves...

I wish you good fortune and less creep for next and years to come... smile hug


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Lurch
Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon
Member Since: 1st Nov 2003
Total posts: 929
Posted:Written by: Sethis

Written by: Lurch

As for the weapons only escilating violence I have to disagree, However you have to seperate the 'good' guys and the 'bad' guys. Weapons in the hands of good guys stop violence more often than cause it.



I agree with everything you say, apart from this.

When people are arguing/having a conflict, then there are many options. You can talk to someone, walk away, ignore them, stay in a group with your friends etc etc. There are many ways for you to avoid the situation (which, as you said, should be the primary defence) which do NOT involve escalating the conflict. However, as soon as a weapon is drawn, then the huge increase in potential threat forces someone into 2 choices: Fight or Flight. You either fight or you run.

Consider that someone (a "bad" guy) is likely to have friends he wants to impress, or feel like he has something to prove; either that he's not afraid, or that he's "harder" than you. Both of these make him unlikely to run, unless he's by himself and unarmed. So then you fight. With lethal weapons (unless you invest in a baton or somesuch).

Either way, that's going to get real messy. Even if someone is only injured, then there will be legal repurcussions. You'll be charged with carrying a weapon, assault with said weapon, and possibly grevious bodily harm. Your attacker will be charged with assault (provided he/she struck first). Pick your jail term... the only way you'll avoid courts is if the incident is never reported, or you can justify using potentially lethal weapons i.e. your life was actually in certain danger.

Regardless of the agressor, the police don't take kindly to fighting. They take even LESS kindly to people carrying knives/chains/guns/miscelleneous melee weapon of your choice.

The law might be different in the USA though. Here, weapons will make the police MUCH less sympathetic with you.

Happy Holidays! ubbrollsmile




I can understand all that, but I think you're misunderstanding me a bit.

I do NOT recommend that she carry a gun. In the states in some places (more than you would imagine) it would be perfectly legal for me to carry a gun strapped to my hip. Concealed carry generally requires a permit to do so legally, but not always.

You do NOT draw a weapon, knife, gun, etc, unless three criteria have been fullfilled. They 'bad guy' has to have the opportunity, the ability, and the intent to either cause grievous bodily harm, or death to you. Rape generally falls into that as well.

That means he must have the opportunity, he's standing right next to you, within reach, running at you, something along those lines. If he's across the street he has no opportunity at that point.

He must have the ability. For me, if it was one on one with another guy I could not, and would not, draw a weapon if it was a simple fist fight. It would be illegal and unethical. 99.9% of the people out there LEGALLY armed are quite docile when they carry, and will do anything to avoid confrontation. If I'm outnumbered, grossly outmatched size wise, or they bring other weapons into it than the rules change and they now have the ability.

The last requirement is the intent, he/she/they must have shown their intent to cause me harm. I cannot attack someone for walking down the street with a weapon merely because they have the ability and the opportunity, they have to express the intent as well.

I do however have the legal right to defend my life with deadly force. I have the legal right to defend a third party with deadly force (child, family, etc), and I would rather have a gun in my hand than the police on the phone.

Granted things are very different in Europe as opposed to the states, and what I'm talking about is far different from a random person shoving a gun in their pocket, or pulling a weapon out and waving it around to scare someone off. Either of those is bad, very bad, and carry a weapon means you carry a lot of responsibility as well. They are a strictly last resort alternative to death. In Oregon there is even a Duty to Retreat clause, stating that if I can, I have to attempt to flee before the use of deadly force is legal.

Just some random stats for you to think over.

Between 1977 and 1992, 10 states in the US adopted 'right to carry' laws. During that time in said states there were:

-- No change in suicide rates
-- A 0.5% rise in accidental firearm deaths (true thats bad, but to be expected)
-- A 5% decline in rapes
-- A 7% decline in aggrivated assault
-- A 8% decline in murder.

if you want that in numbers, that means annually there was

1 more accidental gun death
316 less murders
939 less rapes
and 14,702 less aggrivated assaults

Weapons do *not* always escilate violence, the mere threat of forces STOPS violence more often then not. But like I said, there is a distinct difference between the 'good' guys and the 'bad' guys.




The 'fight or flight' model is a bit limiting, and not exactly how the real world works either. Even among other animals, when you're confronting your own kind it just doesn't work. 'fight or flight' are generally the last two choices, but before you get to that you must either posture or submit. Very very rarely is there a fight with the intent to actually kill someone. Generally when there is a confrontation the two parties will attempt to posture themselves to appear stronger, and force the other to either submit or flee.

I don't agree that people are out to get into fights. The 'bad guy' usually has something he wants, whether it's money or "respect" or something else. Why risk it against someone who is obviously willing to fight back than go somewhere else to find a more submissive victim? Just because they may be a criminal doesn't mean they're stupid. It's not hard to look at someone and size them up, it's simply not worth the risk when there are easier targets. It's rarely about the violence, although there are definatly some sociopaths out there for just that sort of thing.


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

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_Aime_
_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings
Member Since: 2nd Jan 2004
Total posts: 4172
Posted:On saturday night, a pimp tried to hire me redface rolleyes ubblol

After I said no, he pushed me into the porch of my friends flat and tried to kiss and touch and feel me.

Noice.


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alien_oddity
alien_oddity

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: in the trees
Member Since: 31st Dec 2004
Total posts: 7193
Posted:nice area you live in ubblol

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TotalEclipse
Member
Location: Nr Petersfield
Member Since: 26th Aug 2006
Total posts: 120
Posted:Obviously being male makes it totally different when it comes to being threatened with rape or similar, but I feel much more confident out alone at night with 10 years of judo behind me than I would without it. Sure - I'd still be pretty scared if someone tried to mug me, but I know that, when it comes to it, I can deck someone pretty good. I've never had to use it in earnest, but when people have unexpectedly tried to bundle me at a party I've been surprised how quickly that drilled reflex comes in.

Learn a martial art would be my advice. A) you get fit, you get out, you meet people and have fun and B) knowing how to defend yourself will add confidence that you'll radiate unconciously, and can draw on if needed.

and you get around any problems with pepper spray regulations...


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BansheeCat
veteran
Location: lost
Member Since: 29th Jul 2005
Total posts: 1247
Posted:Yeesh. Here, all I collect when walking alone at night are a herd of hungry deer, a few growly racoons, and some ghosts for good measure... Greatest risk is bumping into a tree. Or accidently walking into a neighbors grow op, which would not really happen since I know where they all are wink

"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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Pogo69
Pogo69

there's no charge for awesomeness... or attractiveness
Location: limbo
Member Since: 6th Apr 2006
Total posts: 3764
Posted:mmm, I live in a *really* crap neighbourhood... but... I was raised here... so I feel quite comfortable going for a walk late at night through the park up the road...

I got zero skills if someone wanted to do something bad... like steal my virtue or take my shoes... but I can run pretty fast...


--pogo (pat) [forever and always]

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:I live in a pretty good neighbourhood. But sometimes when I finish work late at night I get a little nervous walking home redface

and I think it's a horrible indication of the state of the world that I get nervous on my 5 minute walk along a main street.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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TotalEclipse
Member
Location: Nr Petersfield
Member Since: 26th Aug 2006
Total posts: 120
Posted:The simple solution is, of course, to carry a lighter and ready-fueled poi/staff/fire snakes etc...there was a thread somewhere else about the safety-granting aspects of great wheels of fire smile

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NOn
activist for HoPper liberation.
Location: ffidrac
Member Since: 23rd Jun 2004
Total posts: 1643
Posted:scaaareee... i think my neighbourhood ain't so bad man, especially compared to a night in Venice being followed by various shady looking fellas, and the hotel owner trying to snog me, ick ick ick...! didn't like venice much as it happens...

I'm not sure about the sprays, alarms etc, if it makes you feel better, but it's too aggressive in most situations when someone's obviously just being a great big annoying tithead and won't go away. Someone mentioned something about posture earlier in the thread though - that's my way, head up, walk confidently and don't stop if someone gives you hassle... generally you get home faster that way too...

the mobile phone idea seems quite good, but surely makes you a more obvious target if someone wanted to mug you for your phone..!


Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006

if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.

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Igirisujin
Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 2666
Posted: Written by: Aime



On saturday night, a pimp tried to hire me redface rolleyes ubblol



After I said no, he pushed me into the porch of my friends flat and tried to kiss and touch and feel me.



Noice.





Are there any flats going in your area? ubbidea



Your getting whaaay more action than me and your just walking home


Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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_Aime_
_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings
Member Since: 2nd Jan 2004
Total posts: 4172
Posted: Written by: Brit_Joe


 Written by: Aime


On saturday night, a pimp tried to hire me redface rolleyes ubblol

After I said no, he pushed me into the porch of my friends flat and tried to kiss and touch and feel me.

Noice.



Are there any flats going in your area? ubbidea

Your getting whaaay more action than me and your just walking home



You can give it a go.
But you'll prolly get beaten to a bloody pulp by homophobes before you get any 'action'.


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Igirisujin
Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 2666
Posted:and theres me thinking Hastings was your second name

Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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_Aime_
_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings
Member Since: 2nd Jan 2004
Total posts: 4172
Posted:It's a common misconception.

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