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SethisBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom


Posted:
Search = Nothing.

Right. Why do people start threads? Is it because you think people on HoP should know about something important? Because you want to entertain? Because you're bored?

Ultimately, what difference does it make? People are either going to agree or disagree. Very few people will start on the fence and then be swayed one way or another by the arguments made in the thread. All it does is open you up to people saying "You're right" and "You're wrong". And then the threads you start impact on how people percieve you.

Say you feel passionate about something. For the sake of argument, let's say it's the war in Iraq. People either:

1. Think it was a good idea.
2. Think it was a bad idea.
3. Don't really care.

Why start a thread on it? I doubt anyone is going to read your post and think "Wow... that's changed my viewpoint so now I agree with this guy".

So if you're not affecting people's opinions on the subject but you are affecting their opinions of YOU then why bother?

Posting information is good, I guess. Learning new stuff only happens if you see things that other people have written/filmed. But then some people will inevitably disagree with the "Fact" or what they percieve you were trying to say with your "Facts". Look at [Old link] if you doubt me. Only the first page, and people are close to insulting each other. It's a straightforward topic: "Is this move possible?" but one person says "Yes" another says "No" and then you have an argument. Why should I post when all it'll do is highlight me rather than the issue?

"I'm bored" threads are silly, let's not have any more, huh? smile Go for a run around the block or something if you're that bored, at the least it'll be good exercise.

I was going to post something I read in the newspaper today, and then decided against it because I can't be bothered with people shouting "Anti American!!!" at me. It's not my words, it's the newspaper. Blame them for their political stance. I personally think that the information is interesting, but too many people's opinions of me would be changed by the post. Therefore I decided not to post it, and wrote this instead.

Anyone agree? Anyone disagree? Anyone care?

Thought so. wink

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


SethisBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom


Posted:
Valid point Pyrolific, I read a speech attributed to Bill Gates a while back. It said things like "Competence won't get you a job. Brown-nosing will." and "You're encouraged to think that your opinion means something to people. It doesn't." And other stuff. It was right. But the thing is, if not everyone's opinions are valid, then how can you tell someone "You're wrong." when they express an opinion? How much evidence do you need for your opinion to become valid? Who has the right to tell you to shut up?

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


jeff(fake)Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh


Posted:
Written by: Pyrolific


mmm I see it as a problem with the education system or even our society that many people think that their opinion is worth the same as everyone elses, even if its not even logical or based on experiences or evidence of any kind.

From a very young age students in the Australian school system are constantly asked what they think about things and how they feel about things, but their reasoning and / or support for their opinion is rarely analysed. I reckon this leads to a populace that tends to think that all opinion is equivalent - or relative.



Oh lordy, tell me about it. I tend to take a lot of flak for my stance that some opinions are inherently inferiour or just plain wrong on the grounds that they can't be backed up or substatiated. People don't like being questioned about their beliefs, especially religous or political, since a lot of the time they stand on a very flimsy basis. I base my philosophy of life on Materialism (in the philosopical sense) and compassion. At the back of my mind I'm aware that both may be incorrect but since the the totality of my 20 years of experience is parsimonious with Materialism I'm willing to live my life as if it were fact.

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...


DrudwynForget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
632 posts
Location: Southampton Uni


Posted:
Forgive my typing and thought processes at this hour, but it's very late, and I'm sleepy.

The further you advance in education the less your opinions seem to make. It is the rationale behind your opinions that becomes increasingly important. that's what I've been taught at least. That's why debating societies are so much fun and are so prevalent at universities.

However, long winded analytical posts, explaining every logical element of an argument, will only convince those who are willing to sit through and read every element, consider the pros and cons, the rationalle and so on, and then make the decision whether the opinion or idea is valid or not. Short sharp statements will produce a much bigger effect in all who read them. We've seen it in so many places on here. Controversial posts seem to make a far bigger impact and produce far more personal responses than long, calculated and logical debates.

I'll give an example. Women are responsible for themselves and if they are raped it is because they bring it on themselves. It's certainly wrong, and is offensive, but if I posted it, then it would result in personal attacks.

The opinion itself is obviously worth something, otherwise it wouldn't provoke the result it does. It's wrong, certainly, it won't change anyone's views, but it's worth something. I think.

I'm not thinking this through properly, but I'll post it anyway, and I hope that someone will continue my train of thought.

Good night!

Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
Written by: Pyrolific


I reckon this leads to a populace that tends to think that all opinion is equivalent - or relative.




Isn't that the entire point of a democracy?

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


PyrolificBRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia


Posted:
Written by: NYC



Written by: Pyrolific



I reckon this leads to a populace that tends to think that all opinion is equivalent - or relative.






Isn't that the entire point of a democracy?






yeah it is. And probly one of its biggest faults. For example reelection of Bush(US) and Howard(Aust). Likelyhood of voting conservative is inversely related to years of schooling. <- I just made that up, but I bet its true!
EDITED_BY: Pyrolific (1134617920)

--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!


KaelGotRiceGOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angel's Landing, USA


Posted:

Written by: Pyrolific


For example reelection of Bush(US) and Howard(Aust). Likelyhood of voting conservative is inversely related to years of schooling. <- I just made that up, but I bet its true!




So, that's why I like you sithout having met you, josh wink

WARNING: you must be 18 or older to do what I'm about to suggest! If you have a good heart or are disgusted/offended easily, don't click this link.

Well, if you want an interesting thought-experiment/scare, go to www.4chan.org and check out the /b/ "random" forums. That is what happens when you have forums with complete anonymity just for the sake of (sick/twisted) amusement.

Don't ask how I even know about it.

To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />


BirgitBRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)


Posted:
What I like about here, is that I can discuss my opinions (or shout them out with my fingers stuck firmly in my ears if I'm one of those) with people I wouldn't even know about if it wasn't for poi and the internet. There's not many... well... ravers, Australians, Americans, etc in my closer circle of friends, and often a small group of people tends to see things the same way anyways. So getting opinions from a completely different point of view is educating, even if I don't always agree or can understand them.

For example, I did a bioethics discussion with some kids in school about genetics yesterday, and the girls in my group all dismissed every "dilemma" we presented them with "no, that's stupid" or "yes, of course", until we showed them why some people might think differently, and that's what HoP does in lots of cases. For example, during Katrina, Julie2-something started a "how do you live?" thread that was interesting.

I've learned a lot about topics I wouldn't usually even have thought about here, and seen a lot of fun links in the social to online games etc.

When I post in discussion, it's usually because something upsets me, and while I admit I'm too lazy to go and protest for most causes, I think I can at least share it with people to see what they think about it.

So... finish babbling... ummm... some threads do change people's opinions or at least broaden their horizons, and some are quite informative like some of Lightning's health-related ones. And hey, sometimes a good, slightly heated discussion is just too much fun to resist.

"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half


FireTomStargazer
6,650 posts

Posted:
Well guys - I'm a newbie to "forum posting" for a few month only and I must say: So far I don't dislike it!

My mind is a wondrous thing - it gives me ideas and thoughts and some of them are appearing of real significance in this (my) world... so far I have only articulated them in real life discussions or in emails with friends and family - with the effect that a resulting discussion is mostly coloured by social status and interaction. hug

"yeh I agree - nope I don't agree... blablabla" two hours later no-one really remembers what it was about and where it started...
discussions with girlfriends via e-mail IS INDEED the worst and most stupid thing one can possibly commit. redface

Putting thoughts into writing (manifesting them so to speak) gives a few opportunities: juggle

I can review my own thoughts at a later point (for this I wouldn't necessarily need a forum - write a diary and stop bothering others)

AND also - as stated from another "member of the board" ditto - have this opinion reflected by many others, who in fact will be able to give me another view on my very own thoughts, take it apart and put it into pieces - grrrreattt!

Sometimes I'm really surprised about what I was writing before - and know I wouldn't write it (like that) again... part of the learning curve...

And yes, I like to read other peoples opinions upon a subject - gather informations of how someone else reflects on the world around him or even on how I see the world around me.

One more: yes, I gained useful informations from internet-forums and every information put into my head alters my consciousness sooner or later, more or less - sometimes supplying approval to my own point of view... (in this given moment)...

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


IgirisujinSILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom


Posted:
(did I do a good bump, do I get a gold star biggrin? I found this after searching for something so I dunno if its even still afloat in the world of hop lol)



I like to post in social because I like to talk, and msn and me dont mix so dont tell me to log onto that.



I like it when you write something and people actually respond to it and you can then respond to something back, but that rarely happens I find what I see happening is people post something ontop of your post and barely (if anything) mention one thing about your post that continues onto theres, so you will say some things and then someone writes something else either off topic, or acnoladges nothing of your previouse post!



Or perhaps Im just expecting too much from forums?? does anyone get what I tried to say? I dont think I even get myself I am up late tonight.

Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?


FireTomStargazer
6,650 posts

Posted:
Written by: Drudwyn

Controversial posts seem to make a far bigger impact and produce far more personal responses than long, calculated and logical debates.

I'll give an example. Women are responsible for themselves and if they are raped it is because they bring it on themselves. It's certainly wrong, and is offensive, but if I posted it, then it would result in personal attacks.

The opinion itself is obviously worth something, otherwise it wouldn't provoke the result it does. It's wrong, certainly, it won't change anyone's views, but it's worth something. I think.





I dunno who you are talking about on this one rolleyes and why this sufaces here... If someone thinks that of course he's wrong and I would certainly not follow up on this. ubbloco

The in itial thinking could have been a different one. For say: speaking in GENERAL terms only and differentiating between "blame" and "response-ability"... giving hints of how to deal with the situation and to get out of it - rejecting "fate", restoring "faith"...

Anyways - personal attacks in controversial discussions seem to be very popular and who's free from misinterpreting some posts here? Thats the problem in an internet discussion.

One needs a thicker skin and a good attitude - not numbness.

And it's actually funny that in one post people say "it's just happening there is nothing you can do about it" and in another they give advice of how to prevent it from happening... ubblol including bodily appearance (keep your head up), visiting self-defense-classes, ect. whilst on a wrongful interpreted post they (watch it) take(n) it apart, not stating anything.

We're humans "only" and what is right today is wrong tomorrow and again right the day after. The mind seems to be working
pretty much like walking - from imbalance to imbalance. biggrin

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


dreamSILVER Member
currently mending
493 posts
Location: Bristol, New Zealand


Posted:
Written by:

How much evidence do you need for your opinion to become valid? Who has the right to tell you to shut up?





There's some really good answers to those questions in contemporary sociology, particularly Bordieu. His answer is that it's related to habitus (his term which sort of equates to lifestyle).

For instance if a lecturer says something to a student who replies I dont understand, the social convention says the student has failed to grasp what has been said to him. If the situation is reversed however, and the lecture doesn't understand the student, then the convention dictates that the fault is with the student... his statement is considered not to have made sense, and if the work is assessed he receives a lower mark.

For better or worse - its all about social hierarchy.

He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

Nietzsche


SethisBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom


Posted:
So where is the social hierarchy on the internet? A lot of the reason for the proliferation of the 'net is because everyone is an equal here. There are certain websites where rank is an issue (remember all that fuss about removing post counts from profiles?) but in general people have equal rights to state their opinions.

So on HoP does anyone (Apart from the admins/Mods) have the right to tell me to be quiet? Or that my post needs more evidence? umm

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
I do. wink biggrin ubbloco ubbangel

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


BansheeCatBRONZE Member
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada


Posted:
of course people have the right to tell you that. That is their opinion. You dont have to listen, or agree, or do as they suggest.

Perhaps you meant to ask: does any one else ( other than Meg and the mods ;-) have the power to make you do that?

"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."


FireTomStargazer
6,650 posts

Posted:
your and malcolms provider... ?

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,693 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia


Posted:
*BUMP*

cant believe i missed this entire thread, probably the most interesting and relevant thread i've ever read.

i often have problems explaining the complexities of my thinking and although i believe it is of sound logic, i often find it hard to portray that knowledge to other people.

taking for example this thread i have just read the entirity of, so much new information has just flooded my thinking i am not even sure what the purpose of this post is, suffice to say i feel greatly compelled to respond. maybe this is because if i dont respond other people will never know that i have viewed and listened to their opinions. if i acknowldge that i have accepted what other people have to say then perhaps they will look more kindly upon me (this is where i believe Sethis's thinking comes in) instead of people abusing me for my opinions they will feel confident that they are not the only one who share this opinion and will, as a result, like me more, which can only be benificial to my chances of reproduction.

what does all this mean? i think what i've just dribbled from my subconcious is debate/discussion/talk/chat/gossip are all part of societies methods of continuing the species?

honestly? f**k knows, i dont really pretend to know what the f**k anything means.

frown f**king oath

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


jeff(fake)Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh


Posted:
Drunk?

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...


buzzingtalkMember
152 posts
Location: London, england


Posted:
Having discussion is healthy as long as it dosent turn into a slanging match. Even people who think they know anything learn something, even if they pretend to not. I think it is important to discuss things you hav opinions on to open your mind to to educate others too. This obviously becomes void when people wont listen to all sides of the story, or back up their perspective with either good reason or with a note saying this is what i think but this is based on nothing so educate me.

Kiss me now, You're beatiful, For these days are truly the last.


buzzingtalkMember
152 posts
Location: London, england


Posted:
 Written by: Sethis



"I can't believe how much pollution America pours out, and how little most people care about it". This would be me "being myself" but the problem is that people will then rip me up for posting my opinion,




i would agree with you, but lets not start that one ubbrollsmile

Kiss me now, You're beatiful, For these days are truly the last.


Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,693 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia


Posted:
drunk? i wish. but alas it never lasts.



you see the third paragrah is what explains the rest, unfortunatly.



on a side note, have you heard of the Ash study? it was a psychological study into the behaviour of people in groups and involved a group of five actors and the subject person. the subject didnt know the other people in the group were actors and when asked to identify which line was longer on a piece of paper the actors were instucted to always choose the shortest line. the subject started off picking the longest line correctly but after two tests started choosing the shortest line as the actors were.



so, people want to fit in.



*floats down stream*

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


FoxInDocsSILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia


Posted:
These are all very long posts... i can't be bothered reading them...

In short, i think people start threads:

to find stuff out.

"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie


ZeroGSILVER Member
Friendly Fire Fiddler
103 posts
Location: Munich, Germany


Posted:
 Written by:

Why do people start threads? ...
Ultimately, what difference does it make? People are either going to agree or disagree ...
People either:
1. Think it is a good idea.
2. Think it is a bad idea.
3. Don't really care.

Why start a thread on it? I doubt anyone is going to read your post and think "Wow... that's changed my viewpoint so now I agree with this guy".

So if you're not affecting people's opinions on the subject but you are affecting their opinions of YOU then why bother?



Intersting observation OP ...

Thinking about it, indeed probably the whole concept of communication is overrated and ultimatly pointless.

We'd better just sit around mute ... and let evolution rid us off all that lame boring blabber around us ...

Hey it will even cut down our mobile bills !
biggrin

BozBRONZE Member
sober
109 posts
Location: Bury St. Edmunds, suffolk, United Kingdom


Posted:
this weeks new scientist has an interesting article about the role of communication and immitation in the way we learn to do things as compared to chimps etc. which don't use communication in teaching.


*hopes people will now think he is clever* rolleyes

*produces sandwich- is happy*


Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,693 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia


Posted:
lol, it would be appreciated if you'd linked it in with the topic a bit more, but i get what you mean wink

sh'yeah. i think people post because they are socialised to want to fit in with other people (of the same species). think about it? when it comes down to it we are animals that have a drive to reproduce and if talking can make people like us we are more likely to achieve that goal. and before anyone points out that if this is the case why aren't people going about going at it like rabbits with anyone. we dont go with anyone simply because society doesnt allow it.

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


Twiggymember
162 posts
Location: Birmingham, UK


Posted:
I hardly reply to any topics in social.. any topics at all in fact, as most have enough viewpoints and arguments allready made. At first i was going to post a simple 'yeah i agree' but as i scroll down i notice this topic also has the same amount of random arguments and off topic content. It rather amused me.

The only posts i see as beneficial are those that are asking for help / advise and topics that provide tutorials. Anything other than that and the auther generally has the answer to what they were posting or isnt questioning anything.

Although i do like the odd link to a funny video / flash etc

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