Forums > Other Toys > Siteswap Program Thingy Question

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DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,688 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
So I've been playing around with this thing
https://www.jugglingdb.com/news/siteswap.php?site=423

And pretty much know how to use it.
The thing that confuses me, is working out which things work and why.
For example - 423 works, but 432 doesn't - even though mathmatically it should.

Or is it just that it's a sim and not real life?

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


T&BBRONZE Member
Me
607 posts
Location: London/Bristol, United Kingdom


Posted:
mathematiclly it doesn't work am afraid

the fact that a site swap averages the number of balls is a nessary not sufficent condition. 432 don't work cos all the ball would arrive at the same time into one hand. for a site swap to be mathematically correct all the ball need to land on seperate beat so you can catch them one ball in one hand but as with any rules in juggling it can be broken in real life

Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ccensoredt


hexagonicClubbles Jugs
1,687 posts
Location: Manchester


Posted:
423 is the same as 234 and 342

432 and (324 and 432) won't work

ah wah wah wah a wah wah


DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,688 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
Yeah - so how do you break it down to see whether it would work or not?

Does there have to be a certain gap between numbers or something, or do you just have to sit and work it out?

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
once you get used to it, you can work it out in your head.



the number tells you how many beats later that ball will be thrown next.

so what you do is make sure that each ball has a clear path (i.e. doesn't land in a hand and need to be thrown at the same time as another ball) and you're good:



423:



423423423423

423423423423

423423423423



the bold numbers show when a ball is thrown.

as there is a ball thrown on each beat and no 'collisions' (i.e. more than one ball being thrown at the same time as another), this siteswap is valid.



432:



4324324

4324324

4324324



as tim said and as you can see, all the balls land in the same hand requiring a throw all at the same time.

hence 432 is invalid.



you can you can fix siteswaps like this by adding in the appropriate gaps and multiplexes to make them valid:



432 ends up with 3 balls in one hand (the hand that throws last being the 2 - a hold) so we add a zero to show the gap in the other hand while we wait for the multiplex and then show the multiplex out back into one ball in each hand on separate beats (which at its simplest would be a [321] split):



4320[321]



or you can throw a different multiplex and again fix the siteswap so something like 4320[531]12 works too smile



real-life simple would be throwing one ball back out at a time which written in siteswap looks like:



4320[322]0[32]3



i can't be bothered to write all those sequences out and show the orbits of each ball but if you do it, all of those patterns will be valid siteswaps smile



hope that makes sense juggle



if you want a full understanding of ss, you could try reading this book which explains siteswap much better than i ever could.





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,688 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
umm

Damn - And I thought Simon was geeky about his poi wink

Ok - that makes sense though.
Beats...I get beats
And counting.

Oooo - it's just like drumming (Only harder)

hug

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


hexagonicClubbles Jugs
1,687 posts
Location: Manchester


Posted:
hug thanx Cole, I was wondering how I was going to explain that!

ah wah wah wah a wah wah


Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,693 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia


Posted:
eeehhhhhhhhhhhh, ehhhhhhhhhhh, SITESWAP! (brain impoldes)

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


UCOFSILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales


Posted:
rolleyes

Theres an explanation twice in one of the juggling threads. Its either the new moves, or "clubs, balls and diabolos" thread.

smile

MegafishBRONZE Member
lurking...
208 posts
Location: Faversham UK


Posted:
hi durbs, if you is lovin the jugglingdb siteswap machiney thingamagigga try having a play with Siteswap.net and Juggling Lab, a downloadable version of juggling lab can be found here:-)

Both of these let you do some very very silly stuff indeed, another one worth having a look over is Jongl, which lets you render a 3D juggler as well as a 3d pattern; its the only one i've found so far that does decent club juggling/passing, but it drinks memory and takes a fair amount of playing around with + half the documentation is in german, and it doesn't run on Mac osX ... so i don't really like it that much,
Its here if you want it --> Jongl
there's some wicked animations on there as well that show you what it can get up to
love pat x

Juggling isn't useless, It just isn't useful.

Neural Coding is Idiosyncratic:-)

'Do you like dry cerial? Hope so because we've drunk your milk. Yours Sincerely, Your Neighbourhood Milk Thief'


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