Forums > Other Toys > Siteswap Program Thingy Question
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
So I've been playing around with this thing
https://www.jugglingdb.com/news/siteswap.php?site=423
And pretty much know how to use it.
The thing that confuses me, is working out which things work and why.
For example - 423 works, but 432 doesn't - even though mathmatically it should.
Or is it just that it's a sim and not real life?
So I've been playing around with this thing
https://www.jugglingdb.com/news/siteswap.php?site=423
And pretty much know how to use it.
The thing that confuses me, is working out which things work and why.
For example - 423 works, but 432 doesn't - even though mathmatically it should.
Or is it just that it's a sim and not real life?
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
BRONZE Member
Me
607 posts
Location: London/Bristol, United Kingdom
Me
607 posts
Location: London/Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
mathematiclly it doesn't work am afraid
the fact that a site swap averages the number of balls is a nessary not sufficent condition. 432 don't work cos all the ball would arrive at the same time into one hand. for a site swap to be mathematically correct all the ball need to land on seperate beat so you can catch them one ball in one hand but as with any rules in juggling it can be broken in real life
mathematiclly it doesn't work am afraid
the fact that a site swap averages the number of balls is a nessary not sufficent condition. 432 don't work cos all the ball would arrive at the same time into one hand. for a site swap to be mathematically correct all the ball need to land on seperate beat so you can catch them one ball in one hand but as with any rules in juggling it can be broken in real life
Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all C
t
Clubbles Jugs
1,687 posts
Location: Manchester
1,687 posts
Location: Manchester
Posted:
423 is the same as 234 and 342
432 and (324 and 432) won't work
423 is the same as 234 and 342
432 and (324 and 432) won't work
ah wah wah wah a wah wah
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
Yeah - so how do you break it down to see whether it would work or not?
Does there have to be a certain gap between numbers or something, or do you just have to sit and work it out?
Yeah - so how do you break it down to see whether it would work or not?
Does there have to be a certain gap between numbers or something, or do you just have to sit and work it out?
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
once you get used to it, you can work it out in your head.
the number tells you how many beats later that ball will be thrown next.
so what you do is make sure that each ball has a clear path (i.e. doesn't land in a hand and need to be thrown at the same time as another ball) and you're good:
423:
423423423423
423423423423
423423423423
the bold numbers show when a ball is thrown.
as there is a ball thrown on each beat and no 'collisions' (i.e. more than one ball being thrown at the same time as another), this siteswap is valid.
432:
4324324
4324324
4324324
as tim said and as you can see, all the balls land in the same hand requiring a throw all at the same time.
hence 432 is invalid.
you can you can fix siteswaps like this by adding in the appropriate gaps and multiplexes to make them valid:
432 ends up with 3 balls in one hand (the hand that throws last being the 2 - a hold) so we add a zero to show the gap in the other hand while we wait for the multiplex and then show the multiplex out back into one ball in each hand on separate beats (which at its simplest would be a [321] split):
4320[321]
or you can throw a different multiplex and again fix the siteswap so something like 4320[531]12 works too
real-life simple would be throwing one ball back out at a time which written in siteswap looks like:
4320[322]0[32]3
i can't be bothered to write all those sequences out and show the orbits of each ball but if you do it, all of those patterns will be valid siteswaps
hope that makes sense
if you want a full understanding of ss, you could try reading this book which explains siteswap much better than i ever could.
cole. x
once you get used to it, you can work it out in your head.
the number tells you how many beats later that ball will be thrown next.
so what you do is make sure that each ball has a clear path (i.e. doesn't land in a hand and need to be thrown at the same time as another ball) and you're good:
423:
423423423423
423423423423
423423423423
the bold numbers show when a ball is thrown.
as there is a ball thrown on each beat and no 'collisions' (i.e. more than one ball being thrown at the same time as another), this siteswap is valid.
432:
4324324
4324324
4324324
as tim said and as you can see, all the balls land in the same hand requiring a throw all at the same time.
hence 432 is invalid.
you can you can fix siteswaps like this by adding in the appropriate gaps and multiplexes to make them valid:
432 ends up with 3 balls in one hand (the hand that throws last being the 2 - a hold) so we add a zero to show the gap in the other hand while we wait for the multiplex and then show the multiplex out back into one ball in each hand on separate beats (which at its simplest would be a [321] split):
4320[321]
or you can throw a different multiplex and again fix the siteswap so something like 4320[531]12 works too
real-life simple would be throwing one ball back out at a time which written in siteswap looks like:
4320[322]0[32]3
i can't be bothered to write all those sequences out and show the orbits of each ball but if you do it, all of those patterns will be valid siteswaps
hope that makes sense
if you want a full understanding of ss, you could try reading this book which explains siteswap much better than i ever could.
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
Damn - And I thought Simon was geeky about his poi
Ok - that makes sense though.
Beats...I get beats
And counting.
Oooo - it's just like drumming (Only harder)
Damn - And I thought Simon was geeky about his poi
Ok - that makes sense though.
Beats...I get beats
And counting.
Oooo - it's just like drumming (Only harder)
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
Clubbles Jugs
1,687 posts
Location: Manchester
1,687 posts
Location: Manchester
Posted:
thanx Cole, I was wondering how I was going to explain that!
thanx Cole, I was wondering how I was going to explain that! ah wah wah wah a wah wah
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
eeehhhhhhhhhhhh, ehhhhhhhhhhh, SITESWAP! (brain impoldes)
eeehhhhhhhhhhhh, ehhhhhhhhhhh, SITESWAP! (brain impoldes)
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
Theres an explanation twice in one of the juggling threads. Its either the new moves, or "clubs, balls and diabolos" thread.
Theres an explanation twice in one of the juggling threads. Its either the new moves, or "clubs, balls and diabolos" thread.
BRONZE Member
lurking...
208 posts
Location: Faversham UK
lurking...
208 posts
Location: Faversham UK
Posted:
hi durbs, if you is lovin the jugglingdb siteswap machiney thingamagigga try having a play with Siteswap.net and Juggling Lab, a downloadable version of juggling lab can be found here:-)
Both of these let you do some very very silly stuff indeed, another one worth having a look over is Jongl, which lets you render a 3D juggler as well as a 3d pattern; its the only one i've found so far that does decent club juggling/passing, but it drinks memory and takes a fair amount of playing around with + half the documentation is in german, and it doesn't run on Mac osX ... so i don't really like it that much,
Its here if you want it --> Jongl
there's some wicked animations on there as well that show you what it can get up to
love pat x
hi durbs, if you is lovin the jugglingdb siteswap machiney thingamagigga try having a play with Siteswap.net and Juggling Lab, a downloadable version of juggling lab can be found here:-)
Both of these let you do some very very silly stuff indeed, another one worth having a look over is Jongl, which lets you render a 3D juggler as well as a 3d pattern; its the only one i've found so far that does decent club juggling/passing, but it drinks memory and takes a fair amount of playing around with + half the documentation is in german, and it doesn't run on Mac osX ... so i don't really like it that much,
Its here if you want it --> Jongl
there's some wicked animations on there as well that show you what it can get up to
love pat x
Juggling isn't useless, It just isn't useful.
Neural Coding is Idiosyncratic:-)
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