Page: 1234
bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:We have bigger houses but smaller families;
more conveniences, but less time.
We have more degrees, but less sense;
more knowledge, but less judgement;
more medicines but less healthiness.
We've been all the way to the moon and back,
but we have trouble crossing the street to meet the new neighbours.
We have built more computers to hold more information,
to produce more copies than ever,
but we have less communication.
We have become long on quantity,
but short on quality.
These are times of fast foods but slow digestion.
Tall man but short character;
steep profits but shallow relationships.
It is a time when there is much in the window,
but nothing in the room.


the Dalai Lama


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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nearly_all_gone
nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2004
Total posts: 1626
Posted:Wow. Thanks for sharing that!

What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted:So...

What do people propose doing about it then?


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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pricklyleaf
pricklyleaf

with added berries
Location: Manchester
Member Since: 7th Mar 2005
Total posts: 1365
Posted:That sums things up quite nicely

Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:Sounds about right..... I particuarly wish i knew how to fix the communication one. Some people just *CANNOT* be bothered frown

We know more, we care less. Or so it seems :/


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:there are a lot of things you can do about it.

here's one or two, to encourage others to post more things that can be done:


join slow food, or at least use the principles

smile at people on the underground.

write to your grandparents

encourage children to play outside and get dirty


any more?


R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted:Were things better in the past or is it simply a myth of the 'good old days'. I think the world is getting better. From my grandfather's generation came the second world war. From my mother's came the Vietnam war. Today we have the Iraq war. Although all of them are an outrage against mankind the severity of wars are decreasing. Likewise tolerance and equality are increasing. A few decades ago homosexual's, foriengers or anyone who is different would be routinely ostracised from society. As for communication, all down history there have been people that just haven't bothered. Things are certainly far from perfect but they are better than ever before. Now is not the time to stop striving for improvements with every fiber of own being but I think it cheapens the accomplishments of good men and women working for others, for emancipations, for peace, to say that everything has gotten worse.

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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Tao Star
Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 30th May 2003
Total posts: 1662
Posted:oooh, can i play outside & get dirty too?

make something/paint/wirte - if you find it hard to talk there's other ways to communicate!

lead by example, talk to people a bit more, care for yourself a bit more..

do one of these! and maybe someone else will...

be honest with yourself, take time off when you really need it, work as much as is fair...

lots of things!


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:at no point did i, or he, say that everything is getting worse. i could equally give you a list of things that make me happy. in fact, the fact that people recognise we HAVE these problems makes me happy. cause then we can begin to do things about it. i'm not cheapening others opinions by posting this. its a post about spirituality, not material gains.

and i'd argue your point that things are getting better, but privately.

R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Patriarch917
Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Member Since: 2nd Oct 2005
Total posts: 607
Posted:...and we didn't go to the moon and back. That was all faked by Stanley Kubric in a basement in Hollywood somewhere. I read it on the internet, so it must be true.

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jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted:Written by: bluecat
its a post about spirituality, not material gains.



I'd argue that spirituality is as much a part of the problem as materialisticness. The wellbeing, both physical and mental, of yourself and others (though not neccaserily in that order) is the most important thing in the world.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:yes. exactly.

are we agreeing but not thinking we're agreeing?


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted:Written by: bluecat

yes. exactly.

are we agreeing but not thinking we're agreeing?


Possibly. I think I was argueing with the Dali Lama rather than you. wink


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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pricklyleaf
pricklyleaf

with added berries
Location: Manchester
Member Since: 7th Mar 2005
Total posts: 1365
Posted:Written by: bluecat


there are a lot of things you can do about it.



here's one or two, to encourage others to post more things that can be done:





join slow food, or at least use the principles



smile at people on the underground.



write to your grandparents



encourage children to play outside and get dirty





any more?





R





mmm...maybe stop spending your life on HoP and knock on your next door neighboors door?! ubblol





edit: oh and... Join Me! Might help!

EDITED_BY: pricklyleaf (1129302969)


Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:I'm not supposed to be living here tho, and am moving in under a month....

Thus, thats a bad idea!

I agree we shouldn't be so cold to each other tho, I had a friend from mexico/puerto rico (ohio, california, etc, etc). who's family was absolutly depressed the year they lived here... No one came to greet them when they moved in, and when they cooked things and took them to the neighbors they were looked at strangely...

People have less in common with their neighbors usually tho. We could do the same thing by just going out and being more invloved somewhere we like being (like your local library smile)


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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KaelGotRice
KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 1584
Posted:Time to smell the roses.

Or as I like, time to spin and smile, and take time to teach the newbies the weave.

wink


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:hmm, quite touching. But i disagree with him on quite a few points.

"We have bigger houses but smaller families"
surely a good thing?

"We have more degrees, but less sense;
more knowledge, but less judgement;"

What rubbish. Less sense than who exactly? Oh yes, they used to be sooo sensible and enlightened back in them olden days didn't they. Or something...

"more medicines but less healthiness."
again, i'd disagree. Perhaps he's talking about obesity\lack of exercise in modern living. But even given that, general health and life expectancy are surely far higher now.

"We've been all the way to the moon and back,
but we have trouble crossing the street to meet the new neighbours.
We have built more computers to hold more information,
to produce more copies than ever,
but we have less communication."

shrug i'd say that as a natural result of people connecting with other people at a non-local level (made possible by communication and transportation technologies) we have less need for local community to support us socially. Obviously the need is still there to some extent, but so too are the local communities if you go out and look for them.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Tao Star
Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 30th May 2003
Total posts: 1662
Posted:and to add to that...

having a computer and the internet has made communicate with hundreds of people who i would

a. never have the opportunity to meet
b. never have thoght of taking to even if i had met them
c. never have know i had anything in common with.

i also think a lot of that stuff doesn't apply to a lot on individuals, maybe society as an average, but still a lot of people are mcuh bigger than that.

but apart from that i agree with your sentiment entirely.


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:Written by: simian

hmm, quite touching. But i disagree with him on quite a few points.

"We have bigger houses but smaller families"
surely a good thing?

"We have more degrees, but less sense;
more knowledge, but less judgement;"

What rubbish. Less sense than who exactly? Oh yes, they used to be sooo sensible and enlightened back in them olden days didn't they. Or something...

"more medicines but less healthiness."
again, i'd disagree. Perhaps he's talking about obesity\lack of exercise in modern living. But even given that, general health and life expectancy are surely far higher now.

"We've been all the way to the moon and back,
but we have trouble crossing the street to meet the new neighbours.
We have built more computers to hold more information,
to produce more copies than ever,
but we have less communication."

shrug i'd say that as a natural result of people connecting with other people at a non-local level (made possible by communication and transportation technologies) we have less need for local community to support us socially. Obviously the need is still there to some extent, but so too are the local communities if you go out and look for them.



point 1(can't be arsed with clever quoting system): i totally, totally disagree. in my opinion more socially dysfuncional people exist in this country because they do not have/use the family network once available.

in a truly selfish way of more space = more freedom, then yes. and i admit that i live that way too. but i am making plans to live in a community because i beleive the 'freedom' we give ourselves makes us dysfunctional(sweeping generalisation. obviously not apt for Eeveryone)

point 2: how many people you know now could live a self sustaining life if the world went tits up and it meant nothing to be an insurance broker? a damn sight less than before, when that was the norm. i think thats what he means. a world in which a man who sells bits of paper is rewarded far more thana man who grows what we need to sustain life is not a sense-filled world. sorry.

point 3. partly i agree. partly not. but reliance on something that is ultimately run on oil for our communication is not going to still be happening in fifty years. so what happens when we need to connect with the local community but have forgotten how?


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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NOn
activist for HoPper liberation.
Location: ffidrac
Member Since: 23rd Jun 2004
Total posts: 1643
Posted:Written by: bluecat

join slow food, or at least use the principles




this is a bit off topic but you can also become a fully blown sloth here.... if you'd really like to slow down.


Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006

if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:point one: So people should be having more children..? Purely judging by the living conditions and culture of the UKs housing estates, i'd say having larger families in smaller living environments isn't really a solution for society's ills.

point two: Mutually supporting societies of specialists is not a new thing. Self sufficient individuals have been exceptional since medieval times. I'd also say that there is far more good sense, reasoning, logic and ethical awareness in modern society than at any point in the past, mainly due to far more widely available education and to mass communication.

point three: Hmm, there are sources for electricity other than oil. But even the Sun will run out someday. That's why we need spaceships, not ploughshares...


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Akashla
Akashla

member
Location: On the far left of sane
Member Since: 28th Jul 2005
Total posts: 72
Posted:Though quick to make your own point, you unfortunately fail to grasp the point of the Dalai Lama.

He is not offering points for discussion, he is noting the paradox in todays society. Of course all elements can be agreed with or disagreed with, its the idea behind them that is key. But then what would he know, its not like he was awarded a Nobel Peace Prize or anything.

Oh wait...


I am not a bitch.
I am THE bitch.
And Im Miss Bitch to you.

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Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:Written by: simian

I'd also say that there is far more good sense, reasoning, logic and ethical awareness in modern society than at any point in the past, mainly due to far more widely available education and to mass communication.




umm

Logic: An economy cannot sustain permanent growth. It's impossible. Yet for some reason we still have an obsession with "Growing economies".

Logic: We MUST stop using fossil fuels BEFORE they run out. In all liklihood, it's too late already, and another Ice age is a geographically short time away.

Can anyone see governments doing anything about it?

I'd say the Ancient Greeks and Romans had a slightly more advanced view of ethical awareness, because our technology has expanded faster than our morality. (Not to mention that the vast majority of our philosophical thought is directly descended from the Greeks)


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Birgit
Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 27th Jan 2005
Total posts: 4145
Posted:The Dalai Lama is coming to Edinburgh in November I've been told biggrin

"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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Tao Star
Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 30th May 2003
Total posts: 1662
Posted:ooooh, really? is he making a public appearence?

I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

Delete

nearly_all_gone
nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2004
Total posts: 1626
Posted:Just thought I'd say, I think things are getting worse. I think modern life is unpleasant for a lot of very unhappy people. Many have lost any sense of meaning in their lives as a result of having nothing to do with life anymore - they don't grow/hunt food, build shelter, raise and teach their own children.. the modern world has a lot of conveniences, but beneath them lies a real life. A life where, yes, you die a lot younger. But a life lived in harmony with the world, like every other creature on this planet.

'Our life is frittered away by detail - Simplify, simplify'
Henry David Thoreau.

Another Thoreau quote which might be fitting for this thread:

'What a wonderful miracle
if only we could look through each other's eyes
for an instant.'

heart heart heart


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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Tao Star
Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 30th May 2003
Total posts: 1662
Posted:think back to the industrial revolution or somthing - people in this country were utterly miserable, troddon on, poor, no vote. it was rubbish!

personally, i know a lot of fulfilled and happy people, even poor ones! health is better, and people are even turning back to more natural ways of living whilst keeping the benefits of living in the modern world.


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

Delete

i8beefy2
i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA
Member Since: 24th Mar 2003
Total posts: 674
Posted:That is SO not the paradox of our times. The paradox of our times is:

Why do hot dogs come in packages of 10, and hot dog buns come in packages of 8?


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MiG
MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG
Member Since: 16th Apr 2004
Total posts: 3415
Posted:I can see the truth in a lot of those statements. Whether they're a bad thing or not, well, i guess that's up to you to decide.

Though i will have to disagree on the 'less communication' point. I no longer have to go outside, sadlle my horse and ride for a day to speak to my mother. I can pick up the phone talk in seconds. I can debate points such as this with people on the other side of the globe.


"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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Tao Star
Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 30th May 2003
Total posts: 1662
Posted:Written by: i8beefy2

That is SO not the paradox of our times. The paradox of our times is:

Why do hot dogs come in packages of 10, and hot dog buns come in packages of 8?



WHY?!??!?!


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

Delete

Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:-

Living in cyberspace,

Lack move body,

Loose of empathy,

wars,

serious viruses,

manipulation,

Warning Security,



+

share,

traveling,

nature,

relaxing,

information transfers,

living in communities,



unity. weavesmiley



:R

EDITED_BY: Richee (1129422537)


POI THEO(R)IST

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Page: 1234

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