Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > very basic concepts of moving with poi: now with added theory!

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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

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Posted:There has already been lots of discussion on dancing and body movement. I don't think I can add much to Duvan's thread here



But, I did have an idea for a way to express body movement in the same sort of broad terms as poi, and I found it helped me when initially thinking of new movements to incorporate into moves, and has been a basis for all sorts of moves I've been working on since:



Anti: any move where a part of your body is moving in a different direction to the poi (i.e any antispin)

Similar: when you move a body part in a way that is the same direction as that of the poi, but not on the same scale or time

Congruent: when you move a body part in a way that is exactly the same as they way the poi are moving (i.e isolations, longarm circles)

Isolation: when a body part remains completely still



Now, this will probably confuse people when thinking about poi terms as well, so forget about the poi moves and focus on the movement of the body instead, and how you want the poi to be following your movement . These are intended as very BROAD terms only, and the most important thing to remember is that they can be applied to any body part.



i.e:

fountains with anti head movement

stalls with congruent leg movement



I hope someone gets something out of this ubbangel

EDITED_BY: LazyAngel (1140005524)


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Stone
Stream Entrant
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Posted:True Lazy Angle, the post isnt about terminology no matter how weird. Though not as weird or as confusing as to call waist wraps the lower fountain and shoulder wraps the upper fountain soapbox

Contra to normal. Normal action is the turning of the opposite hip and shoulders towards the direction of the moving foot, and is used for all normal movements and especially for the turns.

In Contrary Body Movement Position, the moving foot is placed forward or backward and across the stationary foot with slight turning of the body as for the Contrary Body Movement. This is especially required when stepping outside the partner and simultaneously being able to maintain the close body contact between the dancing partners.

In the chicken walk if the feet are held steady and not aloud to turn when moving either forward or backward and letting the upper body to twist as usual, then it becomes the contrary body movement (Jai Chavan's Dance-Sport site).



smile


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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

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Posted:bender: maybe post here?

Richee: thanks dude.

Stone: this contrary body movement sounds cool and not unlike antispin! Any chance of a link to the site?


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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

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Posted:So I've had these ideas kicking around in my head for a while now, but I've been trying to think of a more structured approach to them.



Taking inspiration from Meenik's workshop at Falmouth and some of the martial arts I have done, the basic principle is that the arms and legs reflect the patterns created by the object being manipulated. Image an eight point antispin flower - this gives 8 basic positions for each arm.



Thus all movement is created from the shoulder or hips, while the limbs are manipulated in the same way that an object would be manipulated. The only way to do this is by relaxing all muscles in the limbs and allowing them to become flexible. This should result in smoother, more natural feeling movement.



Only once one set of positions has been learnt should you seek to progress to the next set of positions.



When spinning this is easiest to apply to movement in the wall plane as this not only simplifies the movement (as the torso and legs are less of an obstacle to spinning than in horizontal moves) but also the patterns produced should make it easy to tell whether this is working (diagrams to follow later)



After becoming comfortable with the basic movements in the wall plane, one can explore the other more complex options available in other planes and styles of manipulation. This is recommended on the principle that it is easier to visualise a 2D pattern than a 3D pattern.



will edit in some links to diagrams when I get home

EDITED_BY: LazyAngel (1140710233)


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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

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Posted:I have tried to make a picture (EDIT: See also this image by ICoN ) which displays some of the potential patterns to be made by spinning poi in the wall plane.



In the picture on the left, small and large black dots represent the centre of the circles, the smaller dots representing the centres of the inner circles, the larger ones represent the centres of the outermost circles. Thus each black dot represents a position that the hand must travel through to form part of the pattern. (on a side note, I forgot to put one in the middle, and the greeney blue large ring represents motion through all the dots)





At a quick glance one can recognise the basic flower pattern, as well as antispin, longarm and butterfly patterns. The perfectly synchronised antispin versus normal flower should therefore appear as series of interlinked circles, which makes sense when you think of it as a flower with butterfly spin.



The diagram on the right is a much more simplified pattern, in fact is the picture on the right in a much earlier phase of development. For my own ease of use, I used lines to provide a basic skeleton upon which to base the pattern.



However I began questioning why I was using lines as a basis for a circular pattern, and I realised the answer was that I found symmetrical patterns not only easier to conceptualise but more aesthetic. Hence (I think) the reason why flowers are so popular.



So what has this got to do with body movement? well, going back to what I said earlier about moving in a fluid manner that reflects the poi, I hope these diagrams might help people work out what is possible in terms of overall effect when spinning poi, as well as some paths along which hands can travel.



I know this has sort of been discussed in terms of flowers kinda here , there used to be some here , Meenik on compound circles , a little bit more on flowers here , help on flowers, Icon on flowers here , also (closer to what I'm getting at) here but this is the track I'm going down in my head at the moment, and I'm sure there's some more things I haven't thought of, so I'm trying to thrash it out in here so I can get my tiny mind round it (a lot of the other theoretical stuff is wayyyy over my head at the moment) smile



Don't mind all the links, I put in a couple then got carried away, but flowers are the closest move conceptually to what I'm talking about..

EDITED_BY: LazyAngel (1142168335)


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Richee
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Posted:What is different between red and blue circles on the left?
Are all the lines Poi head lines or any poi hand lines?

:R


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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

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Posted:Diagram on the left:
The hand lines are the ones with the black dots: the thick blue circle and thin green circle.

The patterns created by the thick blue circle (where the poi head moves) are drawn in red circles, the patterns from the thin green circle are drawn in thin blue circles and the thin purple circle.

just realised one circle around the red circles is missing. oops.

But my point is that if the hand patterns are also similar to the poi patterns,can you use the poi patterns to create the hand patterns in theory?

i.e spinning a standard flower pattern with your hands would create isolated reels (I think?)

Diagram on the right:
a very simplified version, with no hand points marked on, but the lines show where the arms go to make the pattern

However, I have also been thinking that the antispin pattern in the centre might be used to represent where arms that have cossed over the body can go, If you think of the centre of your torso being the very centre of the circle


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Richee
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Posted:There is critical moment well described. It still hand that control Poi.

:R


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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

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Posted:My ideas are more on finding a starting place to think about movement and the relationship between what our bodies do when we spin and how the poi patterns reflect this relationship.

I'm not saying the hand does not control the poi, I'm saying that in theory we could use the complex patterns the poi create as a source of inspiration for the way to move while spinning poi.


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Richee
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Posted:It is helpfull bit, for example with weave to think that the weave is still on the same place and the body move around,

or with Between the legs's thinking that body makes free space for Poi path, that goes throught the legs. Is it this?



:R


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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

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Posted:this is part of it. But it is also thinking about how to make the poi look better and feel better overall, by treating your poi as an extension of the body, and also to use arms, legs and head to make the patterns that we make with poi.

Not sure if this is helpful for technical spinning, just to find more pretty patterns..


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Richee
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Posted:Try separate, independent spinning - disconnect your arms and have 2 brains.(Glass) You can start with hand doing flower with one circle.

light,

:R


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alphalight
alphalight

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Posted:exactly what im working on at the moment ; )

im sure it will link the brainparts in a new way and open doors for further families / patterns
is there a thread about on hop somewhere ?
peace light and poimplosion
ap


peace and light

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Richee
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Posted:Not yet. In "Spinnach 1" is exaple from Bluecat with pendulum and weave. In "B complex" by Le Skunk is exaple of pendulum and butterfly.



Basicly its cross-overed beat at one side and pendulum on the orther side, this can be L-R switched and the power in it is that its done fore one beat.



:R


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alphalight
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Posted:or buzzsaw flowers with one hand pendulum or doing a full circle

(olive from paris bring that idea in my circles)

it feels like a cramp in ur brain ; )


peace and light

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Richee
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Posted:Nice one. Here it comes from.



:R


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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

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Posted:actually if you want a strange flower combination try antispin with one hand and big circles with the other: confusing but pretty!

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Olive
Olive

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Posted:Written by: Richee

Nice one. Here it comes from.

:R


It's more coming from Andy's Hybrid moves wink
the highest level of ambidextry: one hand is doing something totally different than the other, which does imply (somehow) different speed for each poi (if you wanna keep both arms circling at same speed) (can't remember how Cole's calling this: polymorphism ..???? .. which is part of hybridness IMO)
consider these:
- pendulum / extended arm
- pendulum / spin (or antispin)
- extended arm / spin (or antispin)
- extended arm / isolation
The above combined with Nick's compound circles/circling arms gives the most amazing flowa pattern I've ever played with (more likely .. messed up with my brain ubbloco)

hug


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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

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Posted:I think Cole called it polyrythms?

definitely the hardest thing so far i've tried out of that list is isolation/extended arm. I can't get enough control on isolations yet to achieve that, I always end up in split time with both hands isolating. But hell yeah, these are cool!

Olive: shame I didn't meet you at the Palais de Tokyo when I went to Paris a couple of weeks ago..


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Olive
Olive

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Posted:yep Isolation/extended arm should be the last one to try .. as it's the hardest

LazyAngel> well I never go to the Palais de Tokyo .. I don't like it !!
PM me next time you're around


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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

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Posted:another post has just inspired me to stick these links in here, in the interest of keeping movement stuff in one thread, because I think they're cool (and quite difficult) and because I had almost forgotten about them

useful advice on pirouettes

a very difficult pirouette idea


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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

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Posted:aha!

a great thread that was almost lost in the mists of time...

Meenik on Tai'chi and Poi


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