• All Purchases made this month instantly go into the draw to win a USD $ 100.00 credit to your HoP account.
 

Forums > Social Discussion > Relationships... a rant about people and their expectations

Login/Join to Participate

Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:I didn't used to date. My premise was that everything worked out great when you were friends, and then you got into a relationship and people wound up building up strange expectations and then getting upset about things that you would have forgiven your friend for not doing but they would have done it anyway cause they were your friend....

Eventually or some reason or another I stopped thinking this. Three years later, I must confess its back in my head.

My last relationship in fact embodied this almost perfectly. We were great friends... did a lot of awesome stuff.. everyone thought we were in a relationship, and we wern't, and that was when it was good. Eventually, convinced by everyone I might as well call it one... this was a more extreme case than normal, we didn't live near each other so there was a lot of fussing as to when we saw each other and such, and we wound up spending a lot of time together....
And, then, after we'd been dating for a bit the problems just got worse and worse. Things he would have done automatically for me before got shoved by the wayside... and we both developed unrealistic expectations of the other, altho some of mine were stated before I ever agreed to call it a relationship. Maybe I was at fault for not realizing that at the time, but he did agree!.... and things just kept going downhill from there.

But the example aside... it seems to happen a lot. And the only actual difference to me between friendship and relationship winds up being exclusitivity (which i could pass on and don't even think is a good idea) and commitment level, which really doesn't change much in an early relationship... so... its mostly a society thing. But its apparently a big pressure... and why... why is that certainty of "being with" someone so bad for our being with them....???


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

Delete Topic

bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:the intensity of a close relationship can be rewarding too!
perhaps the answer is balance.

i don't get to see much of my other friends when i am with Jen,
and when our domesticity and relationship frictions get too much, we balance ourselves with a bit of time spent with the other people in our lives.

it's that balance that's a tricky thing to maintain, plus i am perhaps too young/impulsive to find it easily. old-age wisdom, come hither now!!! smile


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

Delete

JayKitty
GOLD Member since Nov 2004

JayKitty

Mission: Ignition
Location: Central New Jersey

Total posts: 534
Posted:I have to agree with bender, balence is the key, not to much time, not to little time, not too demanding, not desisive enough. Always find your center. If not calling it a relationship works for you, then dont care what others think. I did the same thing for a long time, we were "going out" but we had no title. Eventually when it became officaial it was exactly the same. The only thing is that the title gives it a label and sets it all.

Don't mind me, just passing through.

Delete

Chronofracture333


Chronofracture333

Hobo Gaylord
Location: I am worldwide and lush

Total posts: 329
Posted:Mmm...know where your coming from, must admit I've taken a break from relationship games whilst I try and figure out where my head is at with it.



I think the mistake is made behind the scenes, we accept a whole tangled nest of expectations, stories and games when we start a "relationship", and rarely question them. In fact behaving like we came up with them, when like you say, it's a society thing.Why monogamy? Why marriage? Every relationship we have could/should be unique and yet rather than working out the rules for ourselves, we try and cram them into some sort of omni-mold. We can end up feeling hurt because we feel we should, rather than from any real mistreatment. We end up feeling trapped by the story we've bought into, and taking it out on our fellow prisoner.



The problem is individuality, you start thinking of yourself as a couple, spending all your time together, to identify totally with your shared experiance. So that my boyfriend's out of town for the weekend and whereas before I might have gone out and had fun, I stay in. Stupid. They become your world, and when they're gone it collapses.



Sexual exclusivity is deviant I think, but not too harmful. The sort of social exclusivity that goes with a traditional couple can be lethal. You'll just end up resenting someone if you expect them to provide everything that you need, because they can't. I act as GBF to a few of my partnered friends for just this reason, they need male company other than their man, but her spending time with a straight guy would mess with his head...



If you want an alternate view on relationships, try googling polyamory. Whilst multiple partners may not be for everyone, to make it work the've really had to face a lot of the issues surrounding traditional relationships, and come up with some fairly cool ideas.



Hope you don't mind me replying to your rant. Hope you find an answer that works for you.



Respect & Love



B Goat









hug

EDITED_BY: Chronofracture (1128501826)


*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"

Delete

Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:I don't think I've ever been a proper "friend" with someone before a relationship started. I've always started relationships with people I've never met before. I have few real "friends" so when i find one if they're a good friend I don't want to screw it by...well screwing them...

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

Delete

Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:I kind of come from the opposite direction as Mynci in that pretty much any individual component of a relationship can easily be had with a friend... one specific person may wind up getting more time than another, or it might be a couple of them, and yes the dynamic is different with one, but the dynamic changes still more if you actually decide its a relationship... the balance thing, it doesn't solve the expectations problem not really....

now, i have had good relationship expirience... and part of it was because the way we approached things was so different from the norm, because we made a pretty good effort to set things differently and there was a mixture of enough differences and enough striving to meet commitments that it worked out ok. But ultimately some small amount of closeness was sacrificed for this, and thats not right either.... (broke it off for diferent reasons).

And chrono, thanks a lot for the post
smile
The rant is there to be replied to. Its listed as a rant cause its not terribly coherent in the questions it asks.


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

Delete

blu_valley
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

blu_valley

fluffy mess
Location: Brighton

Total posts: 197
Posted:Ive come at it from both sides. Ive started seeing someone who was a recent stranger and Ive started seeing someone who I had been friends for years with.



Its the re-classification I think that changes our expectations. I'm guilty of it too. Once you make that change from friends the rules change.It would probably be best just to remain friends who then develop a sexual relationship. I've developed sexual relationships with many of my friends, and with all of them, even where the sexual relationship ended, we remained really good friends. (Of coarse ou do get those moments where you go out for drinks and realize you have slept with almost all the people in your current social group).


"I want to know if you can see beauty even when it's not pretty, every day,and if you can source your own life from its presence.." - Oriah Mountain Dreamer

Delete

Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:your not sleeping with me ubblol I'd probably be laughing to hard. wink

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

Delete

Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:Ha, I've been there. The worst part is I can now think of situations where I'd have dated most of a social group... certainly no-one who's significantly outside it!

Which is disturbing in and of itself....

Oh god I was playing drinking games once and realized I'd slept with every single person in the room (there wern't many) and one other person actually knew that, and we just looked at each other all of the sudden and burst out laughing.........

Its unusual for me not to do something sexual with good friends at some point. It happens, but its unusual. In many cases its obvious that me and said friend arn't going to be in a relationship or even one that resembles it. One thing I do notice is that relationships where I started not being friends did go better... but...

hmmm at that....

Soooo much pressure for labels tho! Altho I'm getting into a situation where I don't have to worry about such things for a bit smile

But... thing is I worry about what to do *after* that... there's only so much of this one step at a time thing I can take mentally, I don't want to be ready to do something else (like be in a relationship) and mess it up again for the same reasons....


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

Delete

Chronofracture333


Chronofracture333

Hobo Gaylord
Location: I am worldwide and lush

Total posts: 329
Posted:No worries, would you believe that before this week I'd never posted on a forum and was somewhat unsure of the etiquette involved...

Some more ramblings.

No matter that I've paired/broken up many times in my life, and can rationally see that this could happen many more times, whenever I start a new affair I find myself believing that this is 'the one'. You know, the perfect one, the one that's forever.
I wouldn't advocate starting a relationship thinking it's got no future, just that if it's going to be perfect it'll get there on it's own. No pressure required. And if it doesn't, to accept this, move on, and hopefully remain friends. To enjoy what you have while you have it, and to let it go when it's gone.

Whilst we can learn from our experiances it can be difficult to let them go, start a new relationship after being cheated on, and you expect the new guy to be unfaithful. Works the other way round too, imagining yourself in some idealised future, pretty soon the gap between that and where you are seems huge, and the whole thing pointless. I've seen (and been in!) relationships which failed because the parties involved were having a relationship with their image of the other person, not each other.

Not trying to be negative, it's just that peoples problems tend to be fairly similar, and therefore easier to spot. In a given location we're all fighting the same social stupidity. The solutions tend to be specific to the situation/people involved.

It will find you when you stop looking. wink


*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"

Delete

blu_valley
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

blu_valley

fluffy mess
Location: Brighton

Total posts: 197
Posted:Ah, wouldnt know how to help you on that one. I guess its a bridge you need to cross when you get to it I guess, because you cant stereotype the situation and plan beforehand how you will react. They say that emotion and wisdom are as far apart as any two things can possibly be. I guess the best thing to do if you follow your heart is to do it blindly and charge headfirst. If you follow your head,dont let emotion get involved at all. Mixing the two will never turn out the way you want it to.

"I want to know if you can see beauty even when it's not pretty, every day,and if you can source your own life from its presence.." - Oriah Mountain Dreamer

Delete

TinklePants
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr

Total posts: 4217
Posted:Of course there is another thread about relationships started by blu- (you're standing on my head, girly!!)
all that can be said by me is in there.

Finding love is all well and dandy unless its too far away for you to get to it.

I am however a true believer in "self-love"...

ok that was rude but hell this is the 21st century - where the words sex, wanker and [censored] all have been mentioned on the Simpsons.
If it's ok with them, then it's ok with me!

ok I'm going off topic now.... *wanders off to find a censored dentist*


Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

Delete

spritie
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX

Total posts: 2014
Posted:Kyrian, have you tried removing your expectations of people and taking them for who they are and what they do?

While this approach doesn't work with everyone (some people find it difficult to remove some), but I've found it very helpful for avoiding the little disappointments. Don't be sad/whatever emotion because someone didn't do something specific you wanted or act in a certain way. Instead, be surprised/happy that they did. If they don't know exactly what you want them to do or how you want them do act, it's going to be very difficult for anyone to meet those expectations. Instead, try to let them be themselves, and go with the flow in that. Learn what they do that's nice and specific to them. It'll be there, it just might not be what you were looking for.


Delete

Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:I think my biggest problem is an expectation that people will do what they say they'll do. And I'm afraid I can't do much about that one.... if they won't do that, than how am I to know whats going on?

I actually tend to get kind of huffy about anyone trying to change anything for me.... for whatever reason... I think I take the "as you are" bit too far, as some people are really willing or looking to change something already and want motivation.... and I do understand that....
But I don't like the premise much, its given me bad expiriences.

Nonetheless, the expectations are usually pretty basic... things like not leaving someone two miles from home at a gas station, cooking dinner if you said you were going to cook dinner (particuarly when the other person gets home at 11), Picking up paychecks from work within a few weeks of when they become available.....

As I read this I'm starting to wonder if it isn't a specific people issue rather than a general problem, but thing is i know *a lot* of people who are going to have that basic problem saying one thing and doing another....

i'm babbling arn't i, i can't figure out what i'm trying to say... frown


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

Delete

spritie
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX

Total posts: 2014
Posted:I don't think you are babbling at all. It's usually very helpful for me to discuss things through in exactly the manner you are doing here.

To me, it sounds like the person not doing what they say they will is the one at fault. I, too, would be disappointed if someone said they were going to do those things and then didn't. Did they have reasons for not doing them, or did they simply just forget? If there is a reason, then that may be valid, but if it is just simple forgetfullness, maybe that could be looked in to. Are you asking multiple type things of the other person? Could they maybe feel overwhelmed but don't know how to tell you that? Could they maybe feel pressured into doing those things for you, and thus that's why they don't want to? I'm really just grabbing at straws here since I don't know anything of the situations, but those are some things I've run across in the past. It might help to find the root of the reason they aren't doing what they say they will, although rarely is that easy, and it takes some honest (often difficult) discussion.


Delete

Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 4145
Posted:I have a very good friend who keeps not doing things. The problem is not that she's trying to be annoying, or doesn't do them on purpose, or forgets them. She's just REALLY bad with organisation, and if someone doesn't say "you can't do all of this in 2 hours, it will take you half the day" she'll be late or not get things done.

Don't wanna make excuses for people I've never met though! I've had some relationships where very basic things didn't work up to my expectations, and after telling them about it, there would be 2 reactions:
1. "Ok, I'll do it" with no effects whatsoever, leading to more disappointment, and me getting angry for a reason.
2. "No, that's not what I want to do." That's the easier one, cause you can either go for a compromise, or accept their point of view, or realise you can't live with whatever's not working and have to end it before it gets worse.

However, you have to make clear what you expect, and be prepared to make some concessions to their personality, as they will to yours if they value you. That means you can get
3. "I didn't know it was so important to you - sorry!" or
4. "I'll try but I can't guarantee it'll work" smile


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

Delete

Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Hang on a sec, there's two different things being said here.

1. Expectations: What you expect a person will do in a relationship, of their own accord. Just day to day behaviour. Examples include progressively more intimate behaviour with each other, occasional suprises/presents, a caring attitude. This is the same stuff that is generally present in any relationship, and the person is considered a bit weird if they don't do it. E.g. Not caring when your BF/GF parent dies, or never taking someone out to dinner/movies.

2. Promises. This happens with everyone you will ever meet. They say "I will do X tomorrow". Then they don't. I don't see what this has to do with (1) unless it was a promise to take you out, or do something with you.

Saying one thing and doing another is kinda different to abnormal expectations (this works both ways, say if your partner is demanding too much from you).

Although I am aware that the two can cross over. If a partner says "We'll go see a film" then that is both a promise and an expectation. Both will consequently get screwed up if he/she cancels.

Those are expectations of the people inside the realtionship though, and that can (generally) be sorted out in about 15 minutes of conversation to establish boundaries and expectations. Much harder to solve is other people's expectations of you when you're in a relationship. One of the things that annoys me above all else is when people ask: "What, you haven't had sex yet?" or something similar. 1. It's none of your business, 2. We'll do it when we're damn good and ready for it. Grrrrrr. Sorry, my own pet rant there in a microcosm.

(On a side note, I am aware that there is more to every relationship than Films, Dinners and Sex, it's just easier to use generic examples)

angel


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Delete

Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:Yup, am ranting about two seperate things. One in the first post, one in the later ones.

The expectations thing... I do run into it a good bit. (Sometimes, tho, they're even weird ones i've never heard of before! Oh, and yes, the sex thing can really bug me really quickly. I broke down in tears eventually cause my housemates taunted me every time I went off alone with my bf regardless of what we were actually doing.... I mean I guess I understand why they were having fun doing it but I felt soooo much pressure over it....)
And I don't like the way it can change things. But my personal dissapointments seem to be more closely linked to the second (altho some damn weird expectation having been made of me occasionally must surely contribute as well... helps when people tell you they expect things!)

Which leads me to say...
Well, one, i've been led to belive occasionally i shouldn't belive boys will do what they say, but assuming this to be the load of [censored] it must be....
And the thing is, it was always, well, things they told me they'd do. In some cases very important things! In other cases, more like the dishes. In many cases, ignored for playing a video game. In some cases, very bad, as I felt responsibility on my part to make sure it was done, and when i'm gone 14 hours and come home with other responsibilities seeing a couple hours worth of dishes someone else said they were doing was not really what i needed....

I digress. Back on topic. thanks for listening to me guys, i've really not been able to keep thoughts sorted lately....

To the end birgit speaks of.... passive agressive is definetly a problem! 1 has been the most common choice for years of any boys I seem to so much as talk to... when they come up with not wanting to do something its usually sorted much much faster....
In some cases they did things they didn't want to and blamed me later (thanks guys, communication helps...). In some cases they made stuff up last minute... in some cases the genuinely forgot, which was fine, on an order of forgetting nine out of ten things, which was fine, except then they suddenly started yelling at me for reminding them and sulking and refusing to do anything, which was not so fine.... this happened after months of things otherwise working fine! they just suddenly got that upset about not remembering things... but... if you can't remind someone and they can't do it, than what? ^_^

I've gotten #3 all of once (I';m *usually* pretty good at communicating with anyone s.o.-like). And it was fine smile

Communication is so nice..... people... actually... thinking... and .... talking....

and spritie, the most particuarly bothersome of all people being referenced is overwhelmed by every detail of everyday life i'm afraid... i was supposed to help him deal with much of it in exchange for things like him cooking food and cleaning the house... but it wound up being I do everything and he sits in front of the gamestation (at least now he works!) and whimpers if i have to get him on the phone to verify its ok for me to be talking to x, y, or z....

maybe i'm looking for verification that not everyone's going to suddenly change personalities on me and become a pod person....

dah. so much babbling. thanks everyone who's actually able to see anything I'm saying... thanks for understanding... i really do clarify things better this way ... as many of my friends know from listening to me babble for hours on end...


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

Delete

ma'tina
BRONZE Member since Mar 2005

ma'tina

multiplex
Location: somewhere...

Total posts: 611
Posted:Written by: Kyrian

and why... why is that certainty of "being with" someone so bad for our being with them....???



it doesnt have to be like that, but most of the time, people feel under pressure in the way of having certain expectations about either a relationship or the beloved one, sometimes people think toooooooo much, they should live and enjoy the moment, try to make the best out of it!

....and not thinking too much about what could be or has to be, try to be yourself, have patience and smile, dont force things and give everything time, take your time, for yourself and for your relationship, live your own life, but try to build up sth together as well!

....balance....as someone mentioned before is a good thing, try to find it....... hug

tina


- Ho Sa -
kisses & peace & love to beautiful madges
*rever le temps le prendre*

Delete

spritie
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX

Total posts: 2014
Posted:My experience with the behavior you are describing - the guy not doing whatever he says he will and instead playing video games or some such - is that the boys mentality towards the relationship has changed in some fashion.

Have you set a time limit on doing the dishes? He may intend to still do them, his time schedule is just horribly different from yours (i.e you want them done by the time you come home - he plans on doing them at 3am when he has reached some level in his game or has been killed one too many times).
He may have become depressed because of a lack of job or other stressors on his life that he doesn't feel comfortable discussing with others because he may feel weak doing so.
It may also be a result of too much contact between the two of you - he is needing some space, isn't getting what he feels he needs (even though he hasn't bothered to tell you this), or would just like some time to himself. I've found that laying off him for a little while about the same things (and lets face it, in the long run, dishes, etc are small and a clean house isn't always necessary - nice, but not necessary) and doing some things with your other friends will often help ease his mind and make him feel better/less hassled.

The behaviors that you are describing about expectations, etc. are very common problems, so please don't feel like you are the only one that experiences them.


Delete

Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:yeah... in a normal situation i would have said "talk or get out" basically, but, it wasn't really a normal situation....
the long and short of it is not to trust people too much, i think.

Its still confusing tho. I think I'm projecting too much of the past onto the future, but its hard to keep from looking at one failure and not being convinced that you've screwed something up and you're going to keep doing so because you don't know what it is....

I guess its because I only have one example of me picking out a reasonably sane boy to date whom I was able to have a healthy relationship with (the others were quite *noticeably* er... having... problems... you'd think I'd have realized this would translate directly to relationship problems... altho not always the case....

I'm happiest knowing things. Letting go of knowing things is fine and dandy when you can't know them... but if I'm doing something wrong than I should address that way ahead of time, else I will just keep doing the same thing wrong over and over again... but I can't sort if I am or if I am not....


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

Delete

Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:I think that every guy (more or less) has the problem of prioritising. When my mother says "Iron your clothes" then it's (in my mind) perfectly reasonable to do them at 2am when I've completed my level on the PC. So say she asks me at 4pm. I say "Sure". She comes up to me and starts ranting at 11pm because they're still not done. I get pissed off because she didn't tell me they had to be done before X time. Now, I know that it might make more sense to do the ironing *before* I go on the PC, but sometimes I can't be bothered at the time.

I still plan to do it, but in my own time. However if anyone said "I'd like tea on the table by 5pm" then there is very little excuse for it not being there. In that case, shout once and try again. If he still doesn't do it, shout some more, then sulk. wink

If he's done it twice in a row then he should now be feeling very bad about it, and do something to make up. If he doesn't then he's obviously a lazy bugger who doesn't deserve your attention.

Bear in mind through all of this that none of it is your fault. It's his fault for not doing what you asked (if he's got a problem with it, he should have told you at the time) in the time allotted.

I always try to hold to the "Speak out" behaviour. If my partner does something I don't like, I'll talk to them. If they ask me to do something I don't want to, I'll talk to them. If I think I've done something to upset them, I'll ask what it is. I hope like hell that they'd do the same. SO many problems can be avoided if discussed, rather than letting them build up and becoming resentful in nature.

Y'all have a good day now, y'hear? hug


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Delete